Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Overcomer on February 10, 2008, 09:14:09 AM
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Can anyone give me some insight here?
We had a round rug on lineoleum in the old house. When our dog was a puppy he used to run over there and pee on the rug. We had it cleaned but when we took it up there was some discoloration on the linoleum.
So yesterday I found that rug and put it under the dining room table. Looks real nice.
So my H says to me....."in two years when we lift up that rug there is going to be some fading under it so I do not think we should put that rug there...."
Well, I think it looks nice. He doesn't think I am being logical. I think he forgets that the stain had to do with puppy pee not sun because it was a north facing window and so is this one....
Am I wrong to want to leave it there? Do others have area rugs on top of carpet?
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Hello Overcomer:
To make it simple.
this isn"t about logic, or the possible fading. He doesn"t want you to put the rug there, because even in this small thing he wants to control.
Hermes
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I can see things like this becoming huge issues ,when there are deeper issues . Believe me, I have been there "in spades".
IMO, great housekeeper that I am, I think that a rug over a rug is fine. You see it in magazines, all the time.
I think that it is a great idea to put it under the table.
My H and I have had thousands of similar disagreements when it was really deeper issues----VERY much deeper issues, which still are not resolved (lol).
Love, Ami
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I agree with Ami. Put the rug right there under the table where you want to.
But, as Ami also says, it is really not about the rug at all. It is about control.
Hermes
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Well, and this H is an engineer. In my opinion, kinda boring. He talks about stuff that I simply do not care about AND he jumps on arguments about siding and rugs and other stuff all the time. He rages so maybe it is his way to get to be verbally abusive. If I do not agree with him (which is most of the time) then he gets a free card to start yelling at me........does that sound familiar Ami??
He is stupid in a lot of ways.....
But, I was willing to let it be men and women differences in how we think....
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Well, Ami, the trick here is not to engage with him in any kind of argument. He can"t argue if he has no one to argue with.
You could say: "anything you say dear", and then YOU go right ahead and put the rug where you like.
And no, this is not a man/woman thing. It is an attempted control thing.
Hermes
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The rug is the entryway to a fight--right?
It reminds me of people getting divorced b/c one sqeezes the toothpaste the wrong way(lol)
If it was not the rug,it would be s/thing else until you get to the root, Kelly(IMO). I am sorry for the distress and angst ,Kelly. I really am. Love Ami
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tHIS from a man who had one small picture of an owl on his wall (when I met him) at HIS eye level (he is 6' 6")
A light country blue couch with ruffles. A circa 70s kitchen table that his mother made him buy when she got new furniture.
White walls. No curtains.
Also, the only person in the house who will not take his shoes off so he tracks dirt in all over the carpet. He also drips coffee on the carpet.
We cannot put that rug down because it will discolor the carpet....
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Kelly,
My answer isn't politically correct, but I hope you know that I mean well.
My husband and I have talked about things like this... and I have learned that, for me - and for us - it's best to heed his advice.
Whether he's right or wrong is not even the point. Whether or not the rug looks nice there isn't the point.
What's behind all that, in my experience, is the fact that your husband does not feel respected by you... and respect is a man's deepest need.
I really don't feel that it's about control. I feel that it's about his wanting to be heard and valued, despite the fact that he's often wrong.
You say he is "stupid in a lot of ways" and no doubt he knows that's how you see him...
my husband knows when I feel like he's being stupid. So can you see how his taking a stand on something dumb like a rug might be more related to the fact that he knows you think about him that way?
When I've felt similarly about my husband, God has not wasted time in showing me just how stupid I myself can be...
so that's why I speak up about it to you.
Love,
Carolyn
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Overcomer:
Again, it is not about your H's ideas on interior decor, nor is it about the rug. He wants you do it his way or no way.
Such topics, if they do come up, in the context of a normal marriage/relationship, with a normal, reasonable, Non-N individual, CAN be discussed.
Overcomer: respect is something a person has to earn. If a man does not show respect to his wife, (and Ns could never be described as respectful. L.) then why should he be given respect.
All the best
Hermes
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Kelly,
Am I correct in thinking that your husband is NOT npd?
Just checking.
Carolyn
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Well, I agree he has to earn respect. I do not think he is NPD. I think he had no voice and he screams to be heard. Because his parents stifled him and showed him no respect he has anger issues to a fault. Also, his social skills are lacking. He is redundant and boring. He is one of those guys who says the same thing over and over and over again. Especially if he is angry. He will tell me how he is going to confront someone and then he will say............"then I'll just tell him that x....." and a little while later he'll say........."then I'll just tell him x.." And I look at him and ask him, "Didn't you just say that?" And then a little while later he'll say it again and again and again. Then he tells me I do not listen to him. It is true. I tune him out. How can I give a man my undivided attention when it is the sixth time he has said it??
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Yes, I understand, Kelly. He's the one who's not listening to himself. It's as though he needs to be given permission to do that.
My husband repeats himself, too... but I've made peace with it, knowing that I have my own annoying habits and nobody's perfect. In fact, he has alot of a.d.d. symptoms, sometimes worse than others. We all do weird stuff under stress and when we're tired/hormonal/whatever.
I say, let there be peace. He's not npd, so yes, there really can be... peace.
Love,
Carolyn
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Overcomer:
I believe you also said in other posts (correct me if I am wrong) that he has a "drink problem". And he has rages. "anger issues" is a euphemism. People who rage, and if they also drink, have been known sadly all too often to injure their nearest and dearest.
I do not believe these issues should be played down. I also believe that no wife is supposed to be her husband's therapist, or to "fix" him, in any way at all. That is a job for a professional, always supposing the party agrees to go to a therapist/psychiatrist.
Could I just ask, and I mean this in a sincere fashion: "What was it about him that first attracted you, that made you wish to marry him."
All the best
Hermes
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Honestly?? Here I go. I had broken up with another drunken man. My nmom picked up the trying to fix him after I gave up after three years. He was a lost cause but she thought if she fixed him he would be acceptable to me. I was so angry with her for again interfering in my life that I met my H on match.com. We dated and were married six months later. I did it to spite my mom and it has been pretty much a roller coaster ride ever since. He is ok sometimes but for the most part he is boring and angry. He is an alcoholic. He is "stupid." Under all his "stuff" he is a nice guy but not one I would have or should have chosen.
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Not sounding too good, huh, Overcomer? And it is looking like a long road ahead of you, unless this alcoholism issue is addressed. Don't you think?.
All the best
Hermes
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You know? Not horrible. But I read on another post something about amnesia? Where when you are in the midst of a battle with an alcoholic or awful person it is bad and you are ready to get a divorce but then when you make up, it is like you forgot how awful they were. Kinda like giving birth and forgetting the pain you went through when you end up with a baby.
Then my friend said to me, "well, when you have a fight then you get great make up sex..." Sounds a little weird but probably right in some instances.
I also think that when you stop fighting, that is when you do not care anymore and that is when if they do something bad it is like the straw that broke the camel's back...
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I spent the last ten years of my marriage in apathy, which iimo is worse than anything else. Control, respect doesn't make alot of difference if you just can't seem to communicate with the one person that is suppose to be so important to you.
My ex has a tendency to want to make everything into a story. He will see an incident and within two to three minutes will have a complete scenario worked out on what happened. It simply amazes me. Once when we were visiting his parents, they got several hang up calls within the day. My father-in-law had a total scenario worked out where someone was casing his house to see if he was home. Now, I don't totally discount that couldn't be true, but he does this on EVERYTHING! I know where the ex got it from.
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Hi all,
Control thing definitely, as my exNH started to move the ornamental items round the room ........ weekly!!!
I moved them back ...... then he moved them again.
So then, afterward, because I said nothing, he turned the them to face the wall !!!!!
I still said nothing.
Then, a item of personal significance, a treasured memory, one morning, lay on the floor in pieces !!!!
Leah x
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You know? Not horrible. But I read on another post something about amnesia? Where when you are in the midst of a battle with an alcoholic or awful person it is bad and you are ready to get a divorce but then when you make up, it is like you forgot how awful they were. Kinda like giving birth and forgetting the pain you went through when you end up with a baby.
Then my friend said to me, "well, when you have a fight then you get great make up sex..." Sounds a little weird but probably right in some instances.
I also think that when you stop fighting, that is when you do not care anymore and that is when if they do something bad it is like the straw that broke the camel's back...
Kelly,
Some couples do seem to make a habit out of the fighting, I think... just to get the "reward" of the great make-up sex afterward.
Way back, when I suspected that N-ex might be borderline p.d., that did seem to be exactly his goal, at times.
I thought he was starting a fight just as a matter of routine... like some rut in which he was stuck... and so, when I wouldn't fight back, all the sullen sulkiness was his way of expressing displeasure. Of course, that was before I read about npd and all the missing pieces fit into place.
Love,
Carolyn
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Well, THAT would have been the straw that broke the camel's back......a treasured piece.
And Carolyn, when you realize what they are, it gets easier to figure out what to do next....it is the not knowing what is wrong and why you feel the way you do that drives one crazy...
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".....when you realize what they are, it gets easier to figure out what to do next....it is the not knowing what is wrong and why you feel the way you do that drives one crazy... " Overcomer
Now you said it!
Anyway, and aside from the personality disordered individual, why would anyone want to remain in a marriage/relationship where there is "fighting" all the time. It is no way to live.
All the best
Hermes
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Dear Kelly,
As you know already, this is not a `men's logic' issue at all. Your Hubby is controlling, and when he doesn't get his way he's verbally abusive towards you, and then you at him.
One possibie reason for this is you're both angry at `other things' aside from the immediate issues, and the fights let you take it out on someone. Or perhaps your own rage is the only thing guarding your spirit from total annihilation by the abusive people around you? I think only you can answer the `why ' of it, but it may help to understand what you want, and what you get out of the `stataus quo'
Kelly, I feel that your mother knows the meaning of the business to you, and how much you'd like to run it without her control and interference. It would not surprise me if robbing you of that pleasure is her major reason for with-holding this opportunity from you. N's `feed' off that kind of energy.
Have you thought of just letting it go, and thereby completely negating your mother's control over you? There could be some surprising outcomes. One, you would change your life, and you could arrange it so that no N's are close to you. Its amazing how much that improve your quality of life.
Or two, your mother will lose interest in the business, because she's no longer able to control you using it as leverage. So then it would be yours anyway.
You are a good person, kelly, and you have not let your spirit be crushed. You are certainly strong enough to change your life, as hard as it can be. You are not `bad' . There is no reason for guilt or shame. But it sounds like its been a long time since you've been around people who treat you well. I know how much that can hurt your self perception.
X bella
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Dear Bella:
That is a very insightful post. I hope Kelly will ponder on your words.
"You are certainly strong enough to change your life, as hard as it can be".
I can only add that life is short, Kelly, and we have to make the most of it.
All the best
Hermes
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Advice taken and noted. I am working on it. When I found this new business and realizing there is no one doing it in Iowa....it just gave me the umph to go out and tell everybody.....the first people into these types of business are usually the most successful so the minute I can afford to - I walk!
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Dear Kelly,
Do you mean that you have new business idea, separate to your business with your mother?
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Yes and I an almost embarrassed to say it is a network marketing company. But three years ago one of my employees was one of the first in Iowa in Arbonne and she is now making lots of one and drives a Mercedes so when a vendor I know in the Christian industry started a health and wellness supplement company AND I found out there were not anyone doing it in Iowa I signed up. I have the personality and want to to do it and I will be out of my moms business by this time next year - no doubt!
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Dear Kelly, Thats wonderful news, and it doesn't surprise me. You are one brainy girl! A year is not too long to wait:) I had to wait 2 before I worked up the courage to run my current business full time, and quit my old job with a horrible Boss. It was worth it!
I'm looking forward to seeing you start a new life.
X bella
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I am excited. The product is awesome and it is truly a ground floor opp. I need the product because my doc told me to take liquid vitamins because of the lap band. So I will keep you posted!
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Dear Kelly,
I can hear your joy. It really does sound like a good idea to market a health related product that you believe in, and use yourself. From what I undersatnd that is one of the biggest industries online.
X Bella
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Can anyone give me some insight here?
We had a round rug on lineoleum in the old house. When our dog was a puppy he used to run over there and pee on the rug. We had it cleaned but when we took it up there was some discoloration on the linoleum.
So yesterday I found that rug and put it under the dining room table. Looks real nice.
So my H says to me....."in two years when we lift up that rug there is going to be some fading under it so I do not think we should put that rug there...."
Well, I think it looks nice. He doesn't think I am being logical. I think he forgets that the stain had to do with puppy pee not sun because it was a north facing window and so is this one....
Am I wrong to want to leave it there? Do others have area rugs on top of carpet?
It strikes me as a crazymaking "know it all" game or power play that puts you in a no win position. For the N-ish know it all player, being right is more important than logic. It doesn't take a degree in physics to realize a carpet by itself probably doesn't fade linoleum. But once the N has taken this position, he/she isn't going to back off because that would be admitting error. Then you, being the rational adult player either give in and let him be right, or escalate it into a "big deal" and he can then abuse you for making such a big thing out of nothing: "See how the silly woman makes a big deal out of chunk of carpet".
So you can't win playing on his terms. I suppose the question is, how often does the pattern happen?