Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Gabben on April 23, 2008, 02:23:17 PM
-
Lately, I have been thinking about ambient abuse. I brought this up on the smoke screen and mirrors thread. It has recently occurred to me to look at the ways that I suffered from this form of abuse in my life...there seems to be a draw from me towards people that use this very devious and subtle way of hurting others.
I think that because it is so hard to detect and for others to see it that it creates an intense feeling of helplessness. Learning to care for myself has been learning to accept and love that part of myself that was helpless as a small child. My mom did not respond to my helplessness, of course, we all know that N's despise helplessness and emotional weakness, which is what a small child is.
So I am looking at the ways that I struggle with helplessness in my life such as taking up mild occasional smoking again, an addiction I am helpless with and that I return to time and time again when I am coping with stress. Perhaps, I should not be so hard on myself? Or, allowing myself to be abused or, at the very least, bothered by N-saint still when I am helpless to do anything to change the past -- all I can do is keep moving forward.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This is a clip from Vankin's stuff (I'm not big on him but there is some insightful stuff there).
Ambient abuse is the stealth, subtle, underground currents of maltreatment that sometimes go unnoticed even by the victims themselves, until it is too late. Ambient abuse penetrates and permeates everything – but is difficult to pinpoint and identify. It is ambiguous, atmospheric, diffuse. Hence its insidious and pernicious effects. It is by far the most dangerous kind of abuse there is.
It is the outcome of fear – fear of violence, fear of the unknown, fear of the unpredictable, the capricious, and the arbitrary. It is perpetrated by dropping subtle hints, by disorienting, by constant – and unnecessary – lying, by persistent doubting and demeaning, and by inspiring an air of unmitigated gloom and doom ("gaslighting").
-
Here is the link to the full article:
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse10.html
-
hi Lise,
I really wasn't kidding when I asked if you might consider referring to her as Nsinner.
I think repetition of a loaded word kind of reinforces it as "true" in your subconscious.
Maybe if she's just of the mud like everyone, she'll lose some of her power in your mind?
Hope that's helpful, toss if not...
Hops
-
Hops ---- I'm growing to like you :D
Thanks.
Yes, I saw that when you wrote, "Nsinner" it made me smile.
It is good to have someone validate her mud.
Recently, I purchased the book Psychopaths Next Door, apparently, it is supposed to relieve any and all self-doubt I may have still lingering regarding N saint and to finally leave the drama/trauma behind me...slowly I'll get there.
Then, who knows, one day I may be posting a thread about bird watching.
Lise
-
I am still struggling with Post Traumatic Stress. I just went into one of the conference rooms here at my office and took a nap. I was having mild nightmares or flashbacks about this past year. When I awoke I was feeling the burning pain in my chest again.
It is OK though....I know that it is going to take awhile for me to get over this...and get it all out of my head.
One thought that brings me great relief and a feeling of safety is that I cut off all contact with the social viper N saint. That makes me feel better...hopefully she will no longer intrude in my world. Even if she does I will cut her out immediately...no way am I ever to let her in my head again and she will most certainly get out of my head in time...what an ordeal.
I'm still trying to digest this ambient abuse stuff.
-
Then, who knows, one day I may be posting a thread about bird watching
May you be so healthy(lol)!!!!!
Love Ami
-
Then, who knows, one day I may be posting a thread about bird watching
May you be so healthy(lol)!!!!!
Love Ami
Actually -- I HAVE been taking up bird watching, is that not funny. There are hundreds of varieties of birds where I live and learning about them then spotting them and taking notes is really a delight. I need a set of binoculars...my next purchase. I still have lots, tons to learn but I cannot even begin to tell you the peace and getting out of self that watching birds instills in me.
It is the last thing I thought I would ever do...LOL.
Lise
-
I think that because it is so hard to detect and for others to see it that it creates an intense feeling of helplessness.
I agree. Since you can't pinpoint the problem, there is no obvious solution. At least with overt abuse, the victim can eventually identify the problem and work toward getting out of the situation. With covert and ambient abuse, it is not obvious what the victim needs to get away from, or work toward. And there is no social support. So the abuse creates a diffuse feeling of helplessness and passivity. Also, the victim can come to feel guilty for accusing the abuser. I've noticed covert abusers will play on this. If the victim starts zeroing in on the problem, the abuser starts playing up all the "positive" things they do. The victims feeling of abuse are just a "misinterpretation" or excessive sensitivity.
In my situation, I knew there was something wrong with my FOO at a fairly early age. But it took me into my 40's to start really understanding what was going on. A subtle environment of "ambient" abuse is a pretty good description.
I just finished reading that Vaknin book and haven't quite decided what to think of it, but it does have a lot of enlightening sections on N-ish behavior.
-
Maybe if she's just of the mud like everyone, she'll lose some of her power in your mind?
It is good to have someone validate her mud.
Ummm....excuse me?
mud
-
LOL.....not talking about you, mud. Perhaps, we should have used the word "dirt"?
Does that bring clarity?
Lise
-
It is the outcome of fear – fear of violence, fear of the unknown, fear of the unpredictable, the capricious, and the arbitrary. It is perpetrated by dropping subtle hints, by disorienting, by constant – and unnecessary – lying, by persistent doubting and demeaning, and by inspiring an air of unmitigated gloom and doom ("gaslighting").
Dear Lise,
S.V. has said a mouthful here. It (ambient abuse) is the outcome of fear... one of the primary motivators of any controller, right?
I think that the flip side of that coin is that fear in me or you is the magnet which attracts these folks who seem to exude ambient abuse from their very pores (like one of the women with whom I work).
Eradicating that fear demagnetizes us, I believe. And the best tool I know for wiping out fear is to meditate on the "Fear Nots".
Just a thought.
Love to you,
Carolyn
-
Thanks Carolyn,
Wise counsel and a good point. I think that I will take your words home with me. I agree, fear has an odor and predators can smell it.
Time for me to work on my fears...self can't overcome self and all fear is rooted in self so.......... back to the cross for me!
(((((Carolyn)))))
Lise
-
I hate to be grateful to Vaknin (ugh) but that was a good thing to read tonight, since I face my brother at the lawyer's tomorrow.
I need to not fall for whatever act or display he's putting on.
One thing I can be certain of, is that there will be one.
Hops
PS--Mud, you are an entirely different class of mud. Extraplanetary mud. Cosmic mud. Very very good mud. :D
-
Hops....
One word for ya.....
::keep scrolling::
:::::Scroll scroll scroll:::
scroll....
::whispering::
boundaries.
Why is it that we're willing to let those we love......
trample our boundaries?
If your brother is kind, you can still keep your boundaries in place.
Then, if he turns on you.....
you're prepared,
but without the blindsided scramble of re erecting boundaries that never should have been dropped in the first place?
Heh.... you knew I couldn't keep it to one word; )
Lighter
-
Gab - I haven't heard the term "ambient abuse", but it makes sense. It's so subtle that if we bring notice to it, others label us "crazy", then we do that to ourselves, too. Is that it? That has been my experience, anyway. I learned the hard way to trust my gut on these things. I'm still vulnerable to being called crazy, but now I know what I know. Don't have to prove it to anyone - which is what I always thought I had to do, growing up with an NF as a lawyer.
-
A good example of ambient abuse is lighter's post here on my thread to hops....Basically what lighter does is try to stir things subtly so that when people do speak up, like me right now, she can point the finger back with excuses, justifications and blame all in an attempt to make the person feel crazy.
Of course, that is what abusers love to do is to make others feel crazy...because then they appear to others exactly the way the abuser wants them to appear...typical N strategy.
Of course no one would notice this except me and that is exactly her game. Bullies like to pick on people in private when no one can see or others won't step up to say anything because they are afraid...bullies love to intimidate.
Let me ask people something....how do you feel when someone shows up on your thread, who you know clearly does not like you, and responds to another poster as if you are not in the room.
It is sort of like the mean girls at high school ploy when they use exclusion and let's have a conversation and leave her out....type stuff.
Lighter -- stay off my threads unless you have something to say to me directly....my gut feels nauseated when I read or see posts by you.
Others, from time to time, connect with each other on different peoples threads and it is not in response the thread maker but I can tell when it is done with malice and when it is innocent....Lighter is far from innocent....just look at her past bullying behavior and the way Dr. G has had to warn her -- Once a bully, always a bully.
Lise
-
Yes! Love Ami
-
Possibly Yes, possibly No. Ami
-
I didn't know that Lise requested that, Amber.
-
I'm a bit troubled by the whole premise & concept of "ambient" and "covert" abuse.
Because it seems a bit like "looking for trouble"... we can't KNOW others intentions; so it's almost like condemning a person without knowing the facts... based on a feeling of fear that someone somewhere is trying to control us. If we own our feelings - no one is "controlling" or "abusing" us... and we are able to define and enforce our boundaries.
If we're not fearful and always looking for abuse to drop on us without warning, out of the blue... then we have the time/energy to maintain our basic defenses and devote more to healing.
Don't you think?
Owning our feelings is about standing up for ourselves, (owning our intuitions) without falling to pieces....That is exactly what I did :D :D :D :D :D
Sometimes people need to hear the truth and need to have things set straight. Is that not why we have justice departments, lawyers and jails?
There is a lot of dishonest people lurking around in this world who are either taking or giving. If they are not giving then they are taking and usually that means that they are taking something like our sanity, which for me is precious...I'm not even going to let the smallest amount of dirt get by.
I'm at peace.
Lise
-
Gab - I haven't heard the term "ambient abuse", but it makes sense. It's so subtle that if we bring notice to it, others label us "crazy", then we do that to ourselves, too. Is that it? That has been my experience, anyway. I learned the hard way to trust my gut on these things. I'm still vulnerable to being called crazy, but now I know what I know. Don't have to prove it to anyone - which is what I always thought I had to do, growing up with an NF as a lawyer.
It must have been especially difficult dealing with an N lawyer. Feelings, intuitions, memories wouldn't count for anything.
It seems to me most everyone is trained to some degree in a lawyerly way of judging situations. So it's really difficult to get across to others the reality of covert N abuse. Before finding this board, I tried to explain to others what went on in my FOO, and they typically wanted concrete proof of abuse, such as scars or eyewitnesses. Without such proof, then it's quickly assumed the complaints are trivial, or I am the problem. It's hard to quickly explain 18 years of chronic "ambient abuse" or emotional neglect.
-
Ami, I was responding to Lise's question. For Lise... and she's requested we not have side conversations.
Actually, I never requested that people do not have side conversations...where did I say that? Show me where I said that....putting words in my mouth again Amber?
I could care less if Ami talks to you because I know that Ami cares about me and she is my friend.
Not so with lighter...do you see the difference? It is not all that black and white, Amber....not. I'm talking about specific instances that are grounded in mean spiritness. Ami was not mean.....and she never has been.
Lise
-
Yes, My response to Amber is that part of our problem is seeing things in too black and white. Ami
-
Amber,
Sometimes our thinking and vision is distorted and skewed but I understand it takes time for us to heal.
That line about high school is an example reflective of one person and one situation. Once again, it is not ALL black and white. And once again you are putting words in my mouth. Perhaps before you jump to bias conclusions you could seek clarity first?? Perhaps, that usually is a sensible thing to do.
Lise
-
Glad that I could make you laugh!! :P :P
ME :D
-
Not laughing here, Lise... and I see exactly what you mean here on this thread.... every aspect of it. Thanks!
Love,
Carolyn
-
Thank you for your support Carolyn. I think the worst abuse in the world is psychological...we need our reality and when people start messing with our reality, it hurts and it can have a grave outcome.
Lise
-
The way to deal with ambient abuse is to put back ON the person what they did to you. You can do it to them, with actions , or you can just know the truth.
Some is best to ignore and some is best to confront. You just have to use your intuiton on it, I think. Love Ami
-
The way to deal with ambient abuse is to put back ON the person what they did to you. You can do it to them, with actions , or you can just know the truth.
Some is best to ignore and some is best to confront. You just have to use your intuiton on it, I think. Love Ami
ditto