Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: gratitude28 on April 28, 2008, 10:01:37 AM
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I've been thinking about this... and would like some input.
I have never told my family how I feel. I have never pointed out any inequalities... even the glaring ones.
I can imagine their responses... but am I being unfair? Am I assuming? What could I possibly get out of having an "understanding" anyways?
I can't imagine there is any way that being forthright would make us have any kind of relationship. I think it is too late for me to care.
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Hmm, I've never shared how I've felt with my family either... In fact I rarely share my feelings with those who I feel have treated me badly. When I think about it, it seems that if I were dealing with people who were decent I might be slightly responsible for not allowing any kind of resolution or closure. THe road I did take was to pretty much disown my family.
But then really, I don't know if its unfair... In my case it was they who created the situation and none of them actually made an effort to resolve it either. I don't think repairing the relationship with my mother is really worth the effort.
I wouldn't ever want to encourage anybody not to work things out though if it were possible...
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I think writing letters to your family members.....
really voicing your pain and anger..
letting it all fill the pages.....
is an excercise you could go through, for yourself.
After you've gone over and over what you've written, you can send the letters, have the chat or choose to do nothing.
Up to you.
The important thing I'd get out of it is distilling my feelings down to their basic make up, without a lot of emotion.... and finding some peace.
If you choose to talk to family members.....
I hope your expectations are realistic so you feel liberated....
instead of dissapointed or saddened by their reactions/choices.
((gratitude))
Lighter
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I've never really expressed anything about this stuff to my family, except by accident. A number of years ago, I had basically the same conversation with each of my parents over the phone. We had always discussed the rough years as if it had all been my sister's fault due to her difficult personality. The conversations evolved somehow that I found myself saying, "Well, you're glad you had me aren't you, because I was 'good'?" Each of them said, No, if they had to do it over again they wouldn't have had children, not even me, not even though I was good.
Can any of us here imagine saying anything remotely like that to any of their children, no matter how provoked? I can't. This example just illustrates the very basic "thing" that is missing in these people.
I can understand wanting things to have been better or easier or whatever. But to not be able to say, well, it was rough but you turned out okay and you have given me great grandchildren and you are this good thing and that good thing..... it was worth it..... I just can't explain why they don't get it, but they don't.
I guess I think it would likely be a pointless conversation, Beth. One where you would just get hurt. Or frustrated. If anything changed, it wouldn't be real or for long.
The last time I saw my sister, I picked up this buzz that she gives off. You just can't talk to her because it is all about her. Mother.... similar thing. I keep it pretty surface with most of my family actually. There is just dysfunction everywhere I look. But they don't want to see. They want to keep it comfortable and familiar.
I suppose you don't really have anything to lose by trying it. But I suspect you can guess already how it will go.
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Darren,
You sound a lot like me in this respect. I think now in my life with people outside my family, I am honest and up front. And it has made a difference with people I care about. Also, like you, Darren, I just don't think there's any repair - how do you erase 38 years with the future hope only of being treated strangely, and like a stranger, because you dared question or critisize?
Lighter,
I think writing a letter and then burning it is a good way to go. I think I am afraid to write that letter. I have written a journal about it... and it helped me clarify... I don't think I have any unreasonable hopes - I know I will never be comfortable with them - and isn't that what family is supposed to be - a comfort zone in life???
Juno,
I also think it would be pointless. I just wanted to make sure my thoughts were what others thought - that I wasn't just being selfish in order to hold a grudge or some such thing. I am amazed your family said that to you - but at least they were honest. My mother would be dramatc and "darling" me to death and then switch it all off about a second after talking to me.
Thanks for confirming what I am thinking. I would love to see more ideas on the subject and make sure I really am headed to right direction.
Love, Beth
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I want to add something because I want to support you. I am unclear about the way for you to go. I am glad that you have been given heartfelt thoughts by several others.
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Dear Beth
I could be wrong,but I hear the yearning for a family who loves you ,under the question. You would do whatever it takes ,to have that.
I am finding that "whatever it takes" is not enough. What it WOULD take is my annilihation, which I almost gave.
The NM is a story where the ending never ends happily.
Compost what does not seem right, Friend. Love Ami
((((((((Beth))))))))
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Hi Ami,
I think I used to yearn for that acceptance. I think I know for sure I will never have it - I think the passing of my friend's mother has made it so clear to me. I just can't envision any way in which we would all be a happy, healthy group who enjoyed each other and shared experiences nicely. It just ain't gonna happen.
GS, Thanks for the shout out :)
Love, Beth
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hi Beth,
For all your family are your feelings the same? or are there different ones?
My experience was, after not seeing my brother and sister for over 10 years, but emails here and there, I came to the conclusion that when they arroved here last summer I would face the, with my truth of why I am me. 2 others sisters back east, all 2000 miles away.
They listened, but I don't think they understood a word I said. not at all. Not a word has been mentioned since they went home.
All they wanted to know was what a certain heap of dirt/sand/clay was doing encased in a barrier on a prime downtown lot. I wasn't sure myself but said I had been eyeing this mini-mountain and would tell them.
When the dirt was hauled away and work began I told them in emails and I'm sure they rejoiced so much they were too tired to reply!
Just write it out to yourself and mail it to yourself, and it will feel as those they have heard you.
Love & Luck
Izzy
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Beth, I don't think you are being selfish, I think you are being smart. They had their chances, all your life. It is okay to keep being honest, though. Maybe some day you will say something, just off the cuff, not defensive, and it might get through. Just you being you.
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Yup yup yup.... family is supposed to be a safe haven... a comfort zone.
Thank goodness there are the familie's we're born with.....
and the families we can choose.
Family doesn't have to be FOO.
Lighter
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I've been thinking about this... and would like some input.
I have never told my family how I feel. I have never pointed out any inequalities... even the glaring ones.
I can imagine their responses... but am I being unfair? Am I assuming? What could I possibly get out of having an "understanding" anyways?
I can't imagine there is any way that being forthright would make us have any kind of relationship. I think it is too late for me to care.
Hi, Beth,
I've wondered about this, too... at times when I've thought to myself, "But they don't even know me... I've never given them a chance."
When I quit drinking, that involved a major pointing out of inequalities...
and since then, there've been other issues, including my letter last year, in which I pretty much introduced myself to them, as a virtual stranger.
And, you know... their response/reaction isn't even much of a factor in the whole thing, at this point, although their lack of interest did hurt for a while.
Seems like I needed to take those deliberate steps in order to complete the act of separation - the cutting of the cord - which somehow never was quite accomplished before.
It was my way of clearing the slate... talking about who I am now, not about how I feel toward them and all that... more like, "tada... here I am..."
And all of that to a resounding: Thud.
And I expected.... ???
Well, I didn't know, but I found out... nothing changed - but me.
So... trying to communicate with some people about feelings and such - or even trying to share a bit of your identity and what interests you - I think it all falls flat at their feet like some unknown dialect. And yet, I don't think it's a waste of time at all. At least, for me it wasn't.
I don't know what's the best way for you to deal with this, but I learned alot about myself through the exercise and let go of plenty, too.
Love,
Carolyn
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Carolyn,
It is scary how much we are alike.
I have been sober for a while now too, and my real personality has come out in that time. They have NO idea who or what I am. My mother still doesn't know what things I like or dislike. Do you know that every time she served a vegetable that I didn't like as a kid, she was utterly surprised when I said I didn't like it. And the same things I have not liked since I was a child - she still doesn't know what they are.
I also remember one day I said something witty - she looked at me like I was a foreigner - like she couldn't believe that I was able to come up with a witty remark.
No, they don't know me, and their eyes glass over when I tell them about anything interesting to me. That has been my biggest tipoff that there is no point in trying to communicate with them.
Lighter, My family (mine) is my comfort zone. I love it. It is so funny I never knew you could have that until now.
Love, Beth
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Dear Beth,
My comfort and safety zone is No Contact, an agonizing decision reached, long after an attempt was made by myself, in giving both my parents, more than one chance, each time, to know.
There was, is, nothing I can do to change someones heart, they are way they choose to be. Mother has alienated all of her children, she never wanted children; for she told me that if she were young today, she would not have children.
I tried, that was truthfully, all that I could do.
Love, Leah
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I don't know much about your background and family experience, but ... it can go any way, and it could go in a way that you could never predict, good or bad. The important thing is to take the risk, if you've had problems with being voiceless. Unless you know for sure that you will get abused.
I never said a lot to my family, but there was one night when I thought my father was going to lose all control and for the first time, break out in physical violence against me -- pummel into the ground. I had been homeless, waiting for an apartment to be finished, and, without any other even remote possibilities, went home. I didn't even last 24 hours until my dad flew into one of his rages.
Will spare you most of the story, but as he angrily followed me out of the house in his rage, literally stepping on my heels he was in such hot pursuit, whatever he said (I can't remember), for the first time in my life I screamed out at him that he'd never loved me and I never felt loved. Then he yelled that maybe I should go to a psychiatrist, and I yelled back maybe I already was. And then he followed me to my car, hung on to the open door; I tried to pull away but he still hung onto the car door, so I put the car in gear and drove down our driveway with him holding onto the car door and screaming at me (I don't remember what).
It was the first time I ever stood up to my father or said anything to him.
He told my mother she couldn't call me or talk to me. (Somehow we managed.) He didn't talk to me for 3 months. But in the meantime, my mom said that he was going to call me, sometime, just to wait.
And I did. I can't remember quite what or when because it was a long time ago.
I'll tell you this: that night was the beginning of my relationship improving with my father. Ever so imperceptably, he started moving closer and our relationship improved. It happened over a period of several years, and we didn't really become close until after my mother died -- but it showed me that he cared. He made the move(s) to get closer.
I never approached my mother, however, because I knew it was pointless. I knew I'd never get anything from her. She always looked like the "good one" compared to my father, but she was in fact much more subtle. I got very little from her and knew I never would, so I never talked to her or confronted her. Although my dad was loud and abusive, and hurt me, the things my mother did to me were far more hurtful. Just a lot more subtle.
My brother, I could have talked to about anything. But then again, I didn't have to worry about him. We were always close.
My sister loves me, but she's not very emotionally available. She's there in a very practical way, but the one or two times I've opened up and tried to talk to her, you'd think we'd grown up in two separate families (and in some senses we did). She's like Scarlet O'Hara: I'll think about that tomorrow. I think if she opens one door, she'd have to open a thousand, so she just keeps them all closed to keep the house of cards going.
So, I guess what I'm saying is it just all depends. If you have some sense of your family, and who you might get something from and who you might not, then you can take a somewhat calculated risk.
But, if you can do it, do it anyway, because you do it for yourself. You may not get what you want back from them; you may not get anything at all, or you may get abuse.
But you will have spoken up and used your voice, and that's the important thing. That's what you really get out of doing it, and it's priceless, whatever the consequence.
??? Let us know how you do, if you do it.
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My broken old Nmom, now doddering in her wheelchair, does love me. After 10 years living with her, I finally realized that.
BUT.
She CANNOT STOP BEING A NARCISSIST. So she continued to undermine, exhaust and damage me, up to and including the moment when she "sicced" my brother on me, which led to a whole chain of events that will resolve in NC with my brother likely forever. It is the exact thing she used to talk about NOT wanting, endless lectures about the importance of family, shoving me in his direction, never facing how his abusiveness had scarred me, so with every shove, she further weakened the possibility that we might find an adult way of staying in touch, however tenuous. Now, under the stress of her decline, he has turned full-tilt male-bully sabotaging N, and that is worse than anything she ever tried.
Ironically, when she was disoriented the other evening she asked me, and where are you living, in an apartment or a house? A house, I said. Where is it? I named our street. She was shocked: OUR house? Yes, I said. Well try to hang onto it, she said...
What part of her does not know that if she had ever been able to see past her Nreflexes to protect me from my brother...I wouldn't be fighting to keep it right now...
So, Beth, I'd say to never ever expect full understanding or welcome or appreciation or validation from them. If you say or write or express anything, it can only be for YOURSELF. If it will feel right to you to literally make a statement, out loud, to them sometime...then why not?
But I'd say do that only if you really really really can get into the mindset of NOT being interested in their response. Completely unattached. Having your loving embrace of yourself be so confident and complete that you KNOW you are going to benefit from just stating your true feelings to them and then walking away, completely and totally letting go of the outcome, and expecting nothing.
If you can have all that in place, yes. If you can't, why expose yourself to the disappointment of needing or expecting or hoping for something that is likely never going to come?
For me, sitting in a close circle of women friends in a UU covenant group twice a month, where I can literally say everything that is in my heart, in safety and in confidence, has healed the place where I once wanted that acceptance and support from family. In fact, my church community IS my family.
love,
Hops
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For me, sitting in a close circle of women friends in a UU covenant group twice a month, where I can literally say everything that is in my heart, in safety and in confidence, has healed the place where I once wanted that acceptance and support from family. In fact, my church community IS my family.
love,
Hops
Can't be bought at any price - that's priceless, Hops
Truly, I am joyfully glad to know that you have such a precious place in your life.
Love, Leah
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Thanks, Leah.
Women's groups that meet intentionally, with deep listening techniques, a commitment to be there for each other, and to confidentiality, have been an amazing force for comfort and growth in my life.
Hops
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This thread has some of the gears in my head turning. Most of my experience in dealing with abuse is from the perspective of dealing with a full blown personality disorder. My mother treated me badly, but for what reasons I do not know. She was wrong and dysfunctional, and for somebody to do that something has to be out of whack, but I don't know that she's not capable of changing or feeling guilt. She once told me straight out randomly, "I yelled at you too much when you were a kid." I don't really doubt her sincerity, but I just don't care. I dunno... there are times when she would have given me her last dollar, but when she gets upset about something she's just downright mean.
I don't want to kiss and make up. I just want to get away.
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Thanks, Leah.
Women's groups that meet intentionally, with deep listening techniques, a commitment to be there for each other, and to confidentiality, have been an amazing force for comfort and growth in my life.
Hops
That's just how it ought to be, Hops
Listening Skills has to be the greatest gift that one person can extend to another,
and it is truly vailidating for the person sharing, when someone is really Listening - to what the person is actually saying.
Love, Leah
PS > I have gathered some "Listening" items that I wish add to the thread "Listening"