Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on May 14, 2008, 05:09:18 PM
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I realized today that my M sexually abused me. It was covert sexual abuse. When my friend said the words,"Ami, your M sexually abused you, I started crying". I went in to the "category" of "dirty, disgusting, damaged, soiled, repulsive.
I was in that category, before, in my gut, but now I was , in my mind. I was not the "fake " person any more.
The fake person didn't have any of these things happen to her. The fake person always looked good, so everything was fine.
Now I have some answers as to why my life didn't work, why I took my H's bad feelings and did not fight back. I agreed with him. Now, I know why I did not stand up to my in-laws, until way too late. I agreed with them, too.
My M liked to shock me. She liked to punch me in the stomach ,psychically, and then leer at me, smirk at me.
She would tell me sexual things that were beyond my ability to understand and then laugh at my discomfort.
I see her face, as I come out of denial and it is uglier and uglier, just as it was .
I hate to be in all these categories. Ami
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I feel like a part of me clicked back in, with this. Now, I know why I have been so anxious, not just sexual abuse, but the general "tormenting" atmosphere. I have been blaming myself for why I was "screwed up"
I feel relief. I feel like there will be an end to the "symptoms " of abuse such as fear of traveling,general fears, sadness etc. I WILL be whole , at some point, probably not so terribly far ,in the future. Ami
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Dear Ami,
I just wanted to let you know that I have read what you have written here. At this time do not have words or insight to offer you but I do care and I do hear your pain.
Love,
Lise
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Your words are MORE than enough,Lise! Love Ami
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Oh Ami
That is so hard to believe!!
I'm sorry you thought of it!
Now more things to deal with, but I believe this board is sex-free.
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(((((((((((((((Ami)))))))))))))))
With love & blessings coming your way,
lostkitten
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Thanks Lost Kitten. I appreciate your post very much. Love Ami
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((((((((((( Ami )))))))))))
You are very much in my thoughts and prayers.
Will you be able to share this with Ann fairly soon, I do hope so.
Love, Leah
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Ami......I am very glad you shared this here. It was your mothers' shame not yours for doing what she did. Terrorizing a child with her own sexual perversions is more than inappropriate, it's downright cruel. It was her never you and by facing this you will realize it. Being in denial keeps us from knowing the truth and as you say the truth heals and it does. ......Love, James
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Thank you ((((((((((James))))))))) and ((((((((((Leah))))))) Love, Ami
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Ami, what a shocking revelation!!! What good work you are doing to have such abuse finally made visible to you. Here, you have known what your mother did all your life and yet you were not able to label it as abuse until now. That must be extremely cathartic and healing. That is a HUGE burden for a human carry all these years.
I am so thankful that you have a place that you can share this. I have found that such deep, shameful revelations are difficult to share and even more difficult to be accepted by those with whom I have shared. I am thankful that you can share this profound revelation here and receive support from people like me who care.
I hope that naming this abuse will be like a cork on a champagne bottle and that the dark phlegm of shame and putrid detrius will spew forth ridding your soul of the poison that has eaten away at your being all of these years. It is time to fill up with healing and move forward in life.
I am so happy for you!! Love to you, GS
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Dear GS
Thank you for your warm post. You touched on why I shared this, to take shame, which I feel ,as a buried emotion, and bring it to the light. I "hoped" I would receive loving feedback and I did.
I want to root out the "shame" . Shame is that *I* am "bad", not an action , but ME. This is what I want to heal.
Today, I got a "new" revelation, in the heart. My M is cukoo. I see it a little more clearly, cukoo, and I blamed me.Thanks again , so much, for your post, GS
Love Ami
(((((((GS))))))
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Dear Ami,
I can relate to every word you shared. I have experienced this also, stuffed deep in my gut.
My M liked to shock me. She liked to punch me in the stomach ,psychically, and then leer at me, smirk at me.
She would tell me sexual things that were beyond my ability to understand and then laugh at my discomfort.
I see her face, as I come out of denial and it is uglier and uglier, just as it was .
I am happy for you that your friend did not let this slide. Acknowledging your abuse with you for you so you can completely rid yourself of their shame, not yours.
Ami your heart is open to receive this revalaion, the TRUTH is they are shameful and you need not to suffer one more minute from NM abuse.
The spot light is on the abuser they can't hide when we know the truth and accept the truth of what THEY DID.
Hugs of comfort while your process and work though your new truth. Love to you seasons
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Dear Seasons,
When I saw your name, I knew I would be encouraged. YOU had this ,too? I never met anyone that had this type of thing, of course, other "different" abuse, but not this,in particular. Could you share more? If not , no problem, I understand.
Seasons, you have a beautiful heart and spirit. Love Ami
(((((Seasons)))))))))))
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I can relate as my NMother also did covert sexual abuse.
Bones
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Thank you, Bones!!
It really damaged me ,even though it was not "overt". I did not face how it made me feel "bad" to the core b/c only a "horrible' person would be treated so worthlessly by their own M, was my "childish" thinking. Thanks again, Bones. Love Ami
(((((Bones)))))
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Ami,
I would be more than comfortable to share more with you.
I need to do some errands I will be back soon. love seasons
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Em's right - if you can find your way to forgive yourself for not seeing what your M was doing - for what it was - and realize you had no way to defend yourself from this: BACK THEN...
you'll find the place in you, where you can defend yourself NOW and BELIEVE that the shame belongs to her; not you...
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Am-this is emotional sexual abuse. I think these people do not know or believe that what they are doing is abuse. It reminds me of SLEEPING WITH THE ENEMY where he says "You cannot think I enjoy that" and Julia Roberts says "no that would make you a monster!" I think these people rationalize their sick and twisted lies so they do not have to live with the evil that they are or they project all their venom on us so they can sleep at night.
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That is not the worst of it. I figured out what else happened. I will hide it here,in the middle of the thread. She molested me. That is why I have been so screwed up. That is the missing piece of my life. I never knew what was wrong with me, why I was so fearful, why I let myself be abused all these years. NOW, I know, I was actually molested, not just words.
My own mother molested me.
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You are the best, Leah. Thank you. At least I have a context for why and how I got so screwed up. It makes 'sense". My life makes sense ,in a way it never did.
Love you, Leah Ami
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Did you just remember?
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Dear Kelly,
I was in a safe enough environment and I started crying and I just "saw" what happened . It had been buried with NO awareness, at all, none. I experienced it,as I did as a kid.
My M is the grossest thing in the world, Kelly. I feel gross, too. Ami
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Ami,
I do apologize, I was in 'modify' mode and somehow managed to clip a key and delete my post. So I have re-written it to post again as follows:
I am wondering why a Mother would do this to her daughter, children -- emotional sexual abuse and/or covert (subtle) sexual abuse? Disordered person? Or the taboo 'evil' ?
"It also involves parents or caretakers having to know about every detail of one's private sexual life, asking questions about a child's sexual physiology or questioning for minute details about dates. Covert sexual abuse involves not receiving adequate sexual information".
"It also involves parents using sexualized language for titilation and gratification. In particular, the shocked expression of the young person."
Personally, I am wondering, if a Mother engages in such a manner with her daughter, children -- for personal pleasure, as apparently some people gain pleasure by engaging in such a way.
Nonetheless,
the Shame belongs to the Mother -- the perpetrator, the abuser.
(((( Ami )))) Let the shame go - back to your Mother. Release all shame and toxicity back to the origin - to your Mother. She owns the shame, not you.
Love, Leah
Ami, as I mentioned, I could not comprehend fully due to lack of an awareness or understanding, and so I searched for the above information, however, also, in addition, I have come across the following website:
http://www.kalimunro.com/article_sexual_abuse_by_mothers.html (http://www.kalimunro.com/article_sexual_abuse_by_mothers.html) A Painful Topic. This may be of use, or may not, just "compost" as necessary.
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I'm so sorry, Ami. This must be very hard. I'm glad you have this place to put it out there. ((((Ami))))
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Well Am I am afraid of something similar-I know something is wrong but I cannot remember. I want to know what you did to remember-and what did she do to you? I mean I do not wyou graphic details but I would like to know if it was done under the premise of innocence or was it just blatant hush hush abuse.
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I see it a little more clearly, cukoo, and I blamed me.Thanks again , so much, for your post, GS
Ami,
That self-blame is a defense mechanism against the pain. As children it is too painful for us, and too life threatening, to face the reality that our caregivers are "cucko" as you say. We need to protect ourselves into a fantasy or idealization of our parents as being all good in order for us to feel all safe. But when that parent is doing that which violates our natural instincts, our intuitive sense of what is right or wrong, we need to shield ourselves.
The pain of what our parents did to us was too much for our little child inside to handle. Therefore, blaming ourselves is a relief seeking device to take the edge off of the raw hurt from our parents actions. We bury that pain we bury that self-blame we bury that anger until a time comes in our life when we feel finally safe enough to feel it.
The way out is through. One thing I have found is that if I can go south....into my heart and stay there without thoughts of seeking relief, the pain dissolves along with the voice of shame, the critical voice and my fiesty spirit.
Lise
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Dear Kelly
Maybe tomorrow, I will write details. I have been considering doing it for myself, for others, for the truth and b/c this stuff DOES happen and the truth will set us free.
I am too tired ,tonight ,to deal with it,but I will come back tomorow and revisit it. Love Ami
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I will come back,tomorrow and thank ,personally my precious friends who took the time and gave me so much love on this thread. Thank you from the bottom of my heart . Love Ami
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Dear Ami,
I am so sorry. Please rest tonight in peace, let God wrap his arms around you and take care of you, sleep in his safe arms and the rest will come in due time.
Love and care about you so very much. ((Ami)) seasons
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Dear Seasons, Em, Amber, Kelly, Leah, James, Juno, Lise, Lost Kitten, GS, and Bones,
Thank you for your posts. I needed a shot of love .
I am going to tell you what happened ,with my M. It is buried in a long thread, so, usually, only people who care will bother to look.
I remembered many upsetting things about my M. Many were her saying a shocking comment to me and then leering at me with a mocking ,smirking look.
I told about the time my cousin and I(8,9) were playing with Barbies, at the kitchen table. My M asked my cousin, who was blonde, what color was her pubic hair. My stomach lurched like it does when you hear that s/one has died.
When my M would say these things(violations), my stomach would always feel the same way. It was a feeling of shock and horror.
Yesteday, I got a repressed memory. I never knew you could repress memories so you had NO idea they were there. I thought you would have a vague idea, but I had none.
I was telling my friend that I feel a heavy weight of sadness and immobility come over me when I am with women,with whom I am close . It does not happen in casual situations, such as a party.
I told him that I feel like I can't move, often, that I am underwater, trying to walk and I feel a weight of pain.
I feel like I have "neutral" emotions. Whatever I do, it does not matter b/c it is gray.
He said ,'Try to find the feelings IN the gray"
I told him about the time I had my tonsils out and my M was standing over me ,in the bathroom. I tried to take a capsule, to avoid a shot. I could not swallow it and was gagging and telling my M that I could not take it. She said,"You made your bed, you lie in it". I thought,"I am hopeless, helpless with a monster, stuck with a monster"
My friend told me to try to find the feelings and go in to them.
I felt very safe and very loved with him. That was the key. Right before, I "saw' this memory, I noted how safe I felt. Then, I saw what happened to me when I was 4-5. I was experiencing the feelings that I was having, at the time.
I was telling my friend what I was experiencing. I was saying" No,No, why, why am I so bad that this has to happen to me. I want to die."
My M masturbated in front of me, about 8 feet away from me.I was in my house in Brrokline, before we moved to a suburb of Boston, where I started Kingergarten.
I was in a room with really high ceilings and white walls ,as this house had.
The WORST part of it was my M was trying to shock me ,as she did with all her other comments .
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My life makes "sense" in a way that it never did ,before. I never knew why I had phobias. They all had to do with replaying my M not taking care of me .
My body feels like s/thing "bad" has left.
I do feel like it is my fault. I feel like no one will want me and I want to run away. I hope, and think, that this will leave and at the end I will be whole.
I see that my friend, who experienced horrible abuse, is whole in a way that "regular" people are not, deep in a way that other people are not. No one "wants" to be a diamond, but he is a diamond b/c pressure pushed on him and he did not dissolve, but endured.
That is my hope, right now, that I will get a depth and beauty that only deep pain seems to give. Ami
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It's YOUR fault that your disturbed mother blasted boundaries and had no respect for your young psyche's need for protection? Even from her disordered sexuality?
Or do you mean she did this when you were, say, sharing a bedroom with two twin beds while you were visiting someone? Is it possible she thought you were asleep?
I'm sorry, Ami. This is good that you're cleaning out this sludge though. Yuggh.
Hops
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My life makes "sense" in a way that it never did ,before. I never knew why I had phobias. They all had to do with replaying my M not taking care of me .
My body feels like s/thing "bad" has left
((Ami))
I see a woman who is brave, strong, strong enough to know the truth. To finally love yourself enough to let in all truths, as you did in the company of a loving safe friend. Triumph!!!
It is not for you to carry anymore, let the truth set you free from all pain, shame, sadness, sickness. It does not belong to you anymore, as you have set the old memory free.
Ami you are wonderful kind pure loving soul. You beam with light, you are wanted, appreciated and loved. Your friend! love seasons
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Dear Ami,
How it saddened me and angered me to hear of your abuse, yet I was full of hope for you as I read your story because I could sense real healing coming your way.
Keep telling the stories of the horrible way in which your mother violated you and mistreated you. Just talking about those memories stirs the pain in us which we have stuffed. The pain comes up and out we no longer have to keep unconsciously acting out the story in our adults lives as a way to unconsciously try to tell people the pain of our childhood.
In other words, if you relive speak the trauma stories, uncovering those memories, you no longer are bound to keep reliving it in the painful ways.
"When my M would say these things(violations), my stomach would always feel the same way. It was a feeling of shock and horror.
Yesterday, I got a repressed memory. I never knew you could repress memories so you had NO idea they were there. I thought you would have a vague idea, but I had none.
I was telling my friend that I feel a heavy weight of sadness and immobility come over me when I am with women,with whom I am close . It does not happen in casual situations, such as a party.
I told him that I feel like I can't move, often, that I am underwater, trying to walk and I feel a weight of pain."
For instance I hear you telling two stories here; the one when you were a child and the story of now. It sounds like the current pain of "sadness and immobility" is reminiscent of the exact way that you felt when you were a child and your mother violated you and abused you.
compassion to you.
Lise
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Dear Hops,
I know you are not doing this on purpose. It IS gross and and you, and I and everyone else wants to minimize it. I just WISH it happened as you said it did. Ami
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Dear Leah
Thank you for saying that. I just meant that when s/thing disgusting happens, we ,as humans, want to try to make it less so we don't have to face it .I don't condemn s/one for doing that,but I have to tell it like it was b/c I did not come this far to "lie", at this point.
Love Ami
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Thank you (((((((Lise)))))))) and ((((((((Seasons))))))))))) Love Ami
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Sorry, Ami, no minimizing intended.
I'm just shocked.
How dare she?
Reminds me of a show that was on last night about The Family, a sick cult that practiced "free love" including sex with CHILDREN.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. They were so damaged.
The son, a boy whose mother was a ringleader of this behavior, grew up to do murder-suicide.
I'm glad you've remembered and identified it, Ami.
love
Hops
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Now, my life makes sense. Sexual abuse is about power, not about sex. Hurting a kid with "sex" is the ultimate power i.e wounding. It is the ultimate neutralizing of the person, at the deepest level, which is WHAT the abuser wants.
The abuser is 'powerful ', then, more powerful than a little kid.
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Thanks Hops,
I was sensitive b/c it was hard enough for ME to come out of denial, life long, and I really "would" have minimized it if there was ANY way I could have.
Thanks for your GRRRR and UGGGGG. I agree. Ami
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Ami..........Congratulations! you are strong to face this nightmare. The "it's you fault thing" is just.... we can't believe as children the horrible reality of what is happening. Our survival depends then, on us believing we are loved in spite of what we know to be true. This is denial, and it often produces a "confusion" as we betray ourselves of what we know. Sometimes this manifests itself in trying to forgive or understand the perpetrator and then we still remain confused and caught in circles of self hate and anger. Your mothers actions were nothing but pure evil. Now as long as you see her for what she is, you will start to think clearly and reunite with the true self that you "lost". You will in time become free to never betray your trueself/emotions ever again. No mother who does this is loving. She has simply used you for her own needs and tortured you with her hate. Do not excuse her and you will find yourself again. After all, her hate and lack of love destroyed a part of your life and even seeing this she really has had no empathy for you all this time. She has lied b/c of her own denial and pretended at best. Now, you can live with this reality of her lack of love and you will know for sure the difference between love and evil as you leave denial behind and live in truth. Then it will be much easier to protect yourself from other evil in the future. Your are brave and truthful and are being set free from the prison you were forced to live in........Love, James
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Ami......as in my home, the greatest pain of all could be summed up in the reality of not being loved, and then being lied to, and believing it ourselves.......Love, James
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Thank you, James, dear friend. You are still the "you" of you and I, guess, I am still "me". I can feel that under the denial is anger and strength. Many good things were repressed, along with the memory.
Many good parts of me my M could not kill.
I am seeing,slowly, that the shame is hers. I feel stronger and more able to fight, when I need to. Thanks, James, so much for your words of wisdom. Love, Ami
((((((James)))))))
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Ami........the good thing that was suppressed was "YOU"........Love, James
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Ami......as in my home, the greatest pain of all could be summed up in the reality of not being loved, and then being lied to, and believing it ourselves.......Love, James
Dear James,
Under this memory are good things that were "repressed " too. I can only take care of myself. I am only responsible for the things that *I* do and say. I can hone down my life to making myself what I want to be and doing what I value.
Under this memory was my own power and strength that I could not face, either. She DID denude me, but not forever.
The truth ,ALL the memories , are power , my own power, which I threw away when I could not face her. I have nothing to lose,now, b/c I see that I never had a "mother' anyway, so I don't have to be weak and little for her love. There was no love anyway, so I can be strong. Thanks James. You KNOW b/c you have walked the road, before me, ahead. Thank Goodness for that b/c I would not have had the strength YOU did , to forge it on my own. Love Ami
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Ami,
I once heard that we can repress every single emotion, including fear, and experiece of life except love.
Lise
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Now, my life makes sense. Sexual abuse is about power, not about sex.
Yes, this is huge when sexual abuse is understood correctly. I didn't tell my husband until many years had gone by because I thought he wouldn't get it.
Finally in a safe place, one day it just rolled right out.
He understood as best as he could with compassion and empathy. I felt the tears of relief rolling down my cheeks.
They are monsters, they hurt, and try and destroy another human being. Again try, we can win our lives back because we are human and worth love and dignity.
((((Ami))))
Truth they are sick cowards who deserve justice. IMO love seasons
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I never had a "mother' anyway, so I don't have to be weak and little for her love
BRAVO.
That's reality, and reality is what frees you.
And then you go out and discover how many sources of good, nurturing, responsible love there ARE in the world. You'll stop being distracted by the hope for something that is not real, and be free to experience all the good that IS.
Big, Ami. This is big.
Congratulations.
love,
Hops
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I talked to my Aunt ,today. My Aunt said a simple and wonderful thing,"Emmy ,that's sick!"
It was beautiful and once ,again, my Aunt gave me a sense that there is some order in
the world.
She said, "Emmy, I cannot believe that my sister would do that', but it was NOT a denying of my reality,just a true expression of disbelief. She was "with" me.
Then she said, "Don't let it ruin your life." That was simple truth that felt good, too.
I felt that I did come from a family where it was not ALL bad. I always had my Aunt to look at from afar, to know that life was not all topsy--turvey.
Ami
PS On the "other "hand, I told my old friend who said,'Oh, I was upset,too, when I went away to summer camp and my M left me there"---OY(lol)
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My head feels a little "freed up" to make choices, in a way it was not ,before. What do I want from my life? What is important to me, what do I value ,in me, in others.
I feel a freedom ,as if some rigidity shook loose. Ami
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Well, AMi, who is the "bad" one now? The women who had to "shock" her child. You know? I knew of a man who confessed of masturbating in front of a two year old girl and was immediately put on the sex registry. He had to get a lawyer in order to avoid jail time - it IS abuse!
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Kelly, Really? Wow, that really affirmed me. I am already starting to minimize it b/c it is so GROSS! Thanks friend. You have been with me through ALL the junctures(LOL) Love Ami
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(((((Ami))))) I've stayed away today, been a little down. You have been in a very deeply emotional place. I'm so sad for the pain you have been feeling. :(
I too have experienced sexual abuse as a child. I can remember what happened repeatedly after the age of 9 or 10 until my early teens. I think the reason I started my story with the suicide memories of a very small child is because of the vacant places in my memory of those years. A small child wanting death so much why? For a number of years now I have really thought I was sexually abused as a baby or tot but I can't remember.
I believe we all have a companion angel that helps and guides us more emotionally and spiritually then physically. That maybe we are protected from some memories until such a time that we have emotionally grown in strength to be able to handle it and grow somehow from the memories.
I believe that you have grown to a place with your emotions that you are going to be able to handle this knowledge and grow from it. You have already been learning and growing so much.
You have friends, love and support. You have shed tears for that little child within, now take her by the hand and let her know she is protected. I feel the sorrow.
(((((Ami)))))
May there be peace in your heart.
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Yes REALLY. In a counseling session he confessed to that and the counselor was obligated to report him to the authorities.
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YES! ((((( Ami )))))
Really Really.
There is "Inappropriate" behavior by parent(s), in front of the innocent child, and also, "Inappropriate" behavior by parent(s), in front of the Adult Child.
There is "(Subtle) Covert" Sexual Abuse by parent(s).
There is "Overt" Sexual Abuse by parent(s).
It is done for a purpose.
Did you look at the website link regarding sexual abuse by Mothers? I was stunned that this is something NOT rare - and has clear meaning, purpose and agenda.
Apparently, many people, even today, shun the idea or acceptance that this happens.
I am embarrassed to admit that my Mother fits into this category with her inappropriate sexualized conversation and innuendos, however, I am not carrying HER shame, the ownership and responsibility belongs to my MOTHER. Oddly enough, my MOTHER only exhibited this behavior after my father had left home. To an outsider, they would find it difficult to believe that my MOTHER would have behaved in such a manner, however, all of her children can testify, more so my youngest sibling.
May the God of all comfort bring healing and peace to your heart - as you release your MOTHER's shame - back to where it belongs - with your MOTHER.
Ami, YOU will walk through this and BE stronger, healed and whole.
Love,
Leah
> "Healing the Shame that Binds You" by John Bradshaw was a great help to me a couple of years ago.
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Dear Leah
Thank you for saying that about your M. My F did not know any of these things , either.
Thanks for sharing that,Leah.I know it was not easy for you to say. I looked up the website . It answered a lot..
I had so many symbolic things that were trying to tell me the truth like dreams, body symptoms, phobias.
You need s/one you can trust in a deep way,so your body can relax it's guard . Right before, I "saw', , this memory, I "emotionally" touched the other person and thought"He's safe". Only , then could I go in to a space that allowed it to play, JUST as if it was happening, at the moment.I was watching it and reliving it.
My mind was in a space I have never experienced.
The one thing that stands out is that truth is always better than lies, no matter what the truth is.
Love Ami
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That was beautiful Leah.
(((Ami, Kelly, Leah, lostkitten))) Well everyone! ((((()))))!!! love seasons
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It would be interesting to find out if your mom has a sex addiction. Did she have affairs on your dad? My ex was a sex addict and he was just so compulsive. He just could not keep his pants on. He m so much that he could not perform in bed. He didn't have anything left for me. He was addicted to porn and was excited by the chase and the clandestine meetings, etc. It wasn't that he was in love, he just wanted the excitement....Maybe your mom is a compulsive sex addict......
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Oy Kelly, Too much information(lol).
She didn't have affairs. Gulp, to think of your own M, this way. How much lower can I go????
Ami
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It hurts so badly, raw pain,just cutting through me. My mother had such little regard for me.
She never loved me or "saw" me. I was a blank slate that she could hurt and get away.I was in denial that I had a mother who loved me and a father who would protect me. It was all a lie and that was why I was so sick. I have come to some end of the road, with this one.
The pain of this is so deep; it is like surgery. Ami
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I have had such a hard time putting my thoughts together to post to this thread. What you are writing about Ami and what Leah and Seasons have posted here is so extremely powerful and significant. I am really struggling with it all. My reaction to it is very strong but anything that I might write seems trivial and trite in light of what you three have experienced and have come to understand in your lives. I have great compassion for you all and I pray that you find some peace. I pray we all find peace.
Ami, I am so glad for you that you have found someone who can listen to you and help you put these feelings in place to dig into your healing. I think about the many times across the years that i have sought out help from people who held themselves up as caring and yet who took my pain and trounced it and belittled it. The pain of the and the way it forced me to retreat and confirm the devaluation of myself. I am angry about my experience but I am also very happy about yours. I am learning that what I tern my resentment about my losses and emptiness around to be thankful for someone else's gift and fullness that I am blessed as well.
I am in such a strange place. I have seen so much healing in my own life just this week. It is interior healing but still not much movement in the exterior. But the greatest evidence of healing is that I am not shamed by the lack of movement and while, today, I have been enmeshed in old "feeling" memories of being left out and rejected yet I have not slid down that tunnel into dispair. I am holding even, knowing that the full healing is coming.
I am so thankful to come to a place where I can be with others who have struggled life long - often not even knowing or understanding what it was we were struggling against - and yet we can support each other and encourage each other and begin to see and experience so real changes.
I just realized that so many of the things I have believed would make a difference in my life, in my healing, were exactly right. For the first time in years I am willing to open up my chest of hopes again and dust them off and hang them out there. The last major obstacle for me has to do with something more from my father but echoed by my mother. And rather than continuing here i am going to go start another thread sometime later and work on it.
Back to you and the others who have had such horrendous experiences at your very own mothers' hands and to those are inspired by this thread to look back into our own lives to find that thorn that has caused such horrendous pain for so long.
Not here do we have to even hear "That is in the past, let it go." More wretched words I have never heard. We can not let "it" go until the thorn has been excised from our flesh. Thanks for this thread and thanks for your work and thanks for sharing Ami, Seasons and Leah. God bless you all.
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Dear GS
My dear friend. Thanks for being there and your beautiful post.
Down deep, I feel better. There is a "me" under there who was blocked by massive denial. I ,always wanted my M to be "regular" and then I thought *I* could be.
When I asked her if she wanted me to call ,on my way back to college, and she said," I will hear if the plane crashes".I asked her b/c I wanted her to BE normal.
I remember kids going home for Christmas break ,excited, I wanted to be "normal"and excited ,too. I got some Valium from a shrink, in order to fly,but it was really in order to convince myself that my M was "normal" and I was excited.
I was always lying, lying.
My M made sweaters. When I would wear one and get compliments, I would say, "My M made it for me". That was my life, denial .
The denial with my H was on top of that .
My denial has to end and it is.
I know God loves me. I know He has special place,in His heart , for abused kids and abused kids who have grown up, but are still kids, inside. Love Ami
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Dear Kim
Even when I read YOUR post, I cannot believe it. Thanks for your kind words, Kim, so much. Love Ami
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Dear Bean
Your post really helped. I feel alone and your post was a comfort.
Thanks so much for sharing that,Bean.
It is such a taboo subject that we have been on the board all this time and I can't remember hearing about these things .I am sorry for your experience, Bean. It IS very life defeating. I am hanging on to the promise,"You shall know the truth and the truth will MAKE you free. I do feel better, already,down deep . No matter how "bad" the truth is, it will heal.
Love Ami
(((((Bean)))))))))
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I am coming out of denial. Today, I feel a sense that I am "me". I need to face that *I* was s/one to abuse, in her mind..She told me,"Everyone abuses their kids."
No matter HOW bad the truth it, it is the healer.Under the distortions, is "me",as I was before I believed her ,clear thinking.
I need to face that the "dreams" of mother and all that that meant are dead, for me. Ami
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Me too Am. Everyday when I experience her playing the role and knowing that for her it is just that-a fascade-I mourn the loss of having a mom who cares about me at all. But the thing that irks me is that she denies. Deny deny deny. The lie. The false person. It is just one thing after another. I just watch her in action and it makes me sick. And yet there is NOTHING I can do about it and that is what makes me mad-I will never have control over that situation so better to remove myself.
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She told me,"Everyone abuses their kids."
((( Ami )))
Never ceases to amaze me how they all seem to live with blatant "generalizations" to suit themselves -- their agenda and purpose -- it's ALL about them and what suits their "Ideal"
Love,
Leah
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Have you confronted her about this Am? Or have you decided that you are going to cut her out of your life or anything like that?
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Dear Kelly
I am sitting here, thinking about what to do.Have you read any Alice Miller books? Alice tells you about how to come out of abuse ,whole. You cannot "worry" about them and their reality. You have to face what THEY did to you, and your reality,your feelings, your pain, your being "used" b/c your own parent COULD. They could use you b/c they were bigger and more powerful. That is why they did. You were vulnerable and they used that for them, not for you.
Try the Alice Miller website, if it sounds good to you, Kelly Ami
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Dear Kelly
I am sitting here, thinking about what to do.Have you read any Alice Miller books? Alice tells you about how to come out of abuse ,whole. You cannot "worry" about them and their reality. You have to face what THEY did to you, and your reality,your feelings, your pain, your being "used" b/c your own parent COULD. They could use you b/c they were bigger and more powerful. That is why they did. You were vulnerable and they used that for them, not for you. Try the Alice Miller website, if it sounds good to you, Kelly Ami
That is the truth ((((( Ami )))))
And importantly, it is in the present, a "drama" free zone -- as I feel that to confront your Mother at this stage would turn it round to be ALL about her, with her drama of reality.
Love,
Leah
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I don't understand what you mean,Leah?Please explain b/c I value your perceptions. Ami
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I was trying to reply this morning and the website went down.
I agree with what Leah is saying if I understand it correctly.
You cannot "worry" about them and their reality.
If you confront your NM she will either try to make it all about her. You know the “Woe is me” kind of stuff. Then come up with reasons you should feel sorry for her.
OR – Act shocked that you should accuse her of such a thing. Tell you that you are delusional. Then tell other people what kind of horrible things you are saying about her etc.
Then the present will no longer be “drama free”. You will be living a new drama that she will create for you.
Right now you want to find peace within yourself, not add more drama (her drama) to the horrific pain that you are feeling. The idea of you confronting her right now makes me feel ill. This morning when I tried to post it really triggered something in me. (sweaty palms, etc) I feel very strongly about this.
Please tale care of your own healing first, before you think to far ahead.
May you be filled with love and peace.
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Thank you, Lost Kitten
I asked my F,"Are you going to be a coward or stand up?" He said he would stand beside me(after floundering).
I have not talked to my M, yet. I have left messages.
The Alice Miller website is helping me get my sanity back.The WORST thing you can do is flip in to thinking mechanism of "I wonder what kind of life THEY had"
That was a big reason we lost our sanity in the first place. We had to take care of them and their feelings. My M was smart enough not to abuse another little kid ,so she knew , enough.
I am so tired of people trying to mitigate the truth of what happens to kids There are millions of "reasons" to let the abusers off the hook, but who pays? The kids pay, then and now.
My M abused me b/c she could get away with it, pure and simple. I didn't have a voice. Now, I do. I told my Aunt and today I am going to call my Aunt and ask her to call my M . My Aunt is the only person my M is afraid of . My Aunt gets in her face and tells her what she needs to hear.
It is the fight of good versus evil, even though I know that that may seem black and white. My M is evil b/c she can hurt s/one and not care. She does not care ,now, about what she did to me, I am quite sure. She will make some excuse, I am quite sure.
My Aunt can do s/thing, if she will.She can bring truth to the situation, for me, and that will help. Ami
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Thank you (((( Lostkitten ))))
The board went down and I did not get a chance to post my reply.
Yes, you have superbly clarified what I was saying to Ami.
Love, Leah
((((( Ami ))))) you are very much in my thoughts and prayers.
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My F stood by me. He tried to have mini "weenie outs", but not much and when I called him on it, he backed down.
Down deep,people probably blame me for bringing it up, but I lived it , it was done to me. It is reality.
My F ,for the first time, took a stand with me ,against the monster, the mother who molested her child.
It felt good.
I told my M that I am in the small group of daughters who were molested by their M's and she put me there.
That is direct, real and out there, just as what she did to me was.
I am getting stronger as I SEE just who was at fault .
I am seeing the truth about her.
I always wanted to think that she had my best interests at heart,but she didn't. She used me to discharge her hate. Whenever I got strong, she pushed me down, so I would not .
The truth is the healer.It is never as bad as lies, never, not even when you face the "worst". I did not have the "worst",but it was bad enough.
Facing it beings healing , strength and peace. Ami
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Something in this post or the last couple of posts is helping me. By seeing the monster in your mother, and other mothers here I am beginning to see my mother as something other than the passive aggressive person who is less than loving. It should be something that her sitter sees her as the most difficult person she has EVER worked with. That should tell me something and yet i have not yet gotten my vision of her as a monster. But I am getting closer. What she did and does to me is heinous and it is all for her self-protection. I am enraged!!! Angry beyond words.
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Oh Ami,
How yucky and gross. It must have been hard to write down the words. I am so sorry that you went through this.
What will you do with this knowledge now? It seems you have already made progress with realizing it was her disgustig act and nothing to do with you. Do you think she did this to other people?
My mother put me in situations that could have led to sexual predation... She seemed to enjoy seeing others look at me lustfully. She had a fantasy of me being a slut. She also talked about sex with my father in front of me - in a 'sotto voce' so that I seemed to overhear it. It was like a competition. It would also twist my stomache.
(((((((((Ami))))))))))))
Love, Beth
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Dear SS,
Your last post IS where the healing is, according to Alice Miller(and my own very limited experience).
Our empathy has been with them. Hence, we have not had empathy for us.
As we see the truth of them, we get empathy for us.
I wish I could be there, already. I wish I did not have to live one more day in this prison of delusions , shame and self hate. However, healing seems to go at its own pace b/c we can only see so much at a time.
I want to be a bird flying ,now, but I am just at the beginning of the road.
I can feel that the road is solid and WILL take me there. I know what I want, to be centered, to love myself, to be at peace, to feel comfortable in my own skin, to have my own power.
I have had glimpses of this, at times.
I am getting there ,slowly,but I wish it were faster, as I* have "wasted" so much of my life. However, it was not wasted, as the pain helped me to find God.
So, I guess I need to trust that I will go to the next step, in time, as you will too, SS. Love Ami
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Thank you, Beth.
To tell you the truth, finding out about this was a relief.
It was not this one "act" that screwed me up, as much as showed me the truth of my life. I was nothing,but s/one to have power over.
I ,only ,have one memory of "actual" sexual abuse, but it shows me how bad it ALL was.
Coming out of denial is a relief, even though it is painful.
Under all this is "me". I want to be done with all this and just be whole. That is my frustration. I want to be whole, now, and it is slow.
However, I can't make it faster than my mind will let me heal. Thanks again for your post, Beth. Love Ami
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I had a huge breakthrough. Many people may not understand if you have not read Alice Miller. However,I want to share it. James has had the courage to walk from point A to point B in a way I have never seen before.
I have never seen s/one "heal" before. I have heard many "words" and theories. I have a maasters degree in Counseling, BUT I have never seen true healing, where an "abused" person becomes "whole", centered, integrated.
I have never witnessed this in any of the people I have known, no matter HOW long they have been in therapy(even over 20 years)
Knowing him has changed my paradigm. I always felt hopeless about "real" healing. Now, I don't.You need s/one to help you who has been there and you need courage. With that,you can heal.
I want to tell you what happened . James helped me to be safe enough to retrieve the memory of my M molesting me. That required that I feel safe and loved, which I did or I could never have seen it.
After that, I looked at my M, with "truth". The truth was that she did not ''love'me. She shocked me as much as she could and would smirk and leer at me. I "wanted" to believe she loved me, but Alice says that I cannot lie and be healthy, so I faced it.
I was in so much psychic pain this week. My heart felt like it would break, literally. I stayed with it and just felt it. I started seeing my M, as she was. Her true self started forming in my mind, not the idealized self,which I "made" up b/c I wanted to(or had to).
It was very painful,but today I got insights which are life changing.
I saw how I always had to "punish" myself like overeat and get stomachaches or make things harder for myself.
*I* HAD to be bad or my whole idealized version of my life, with a "good "mother, would come falling down.
When I see her, as she is, I don't need to be "bad" anymore.
I am at the beginning of my journey back from "insanity".
I am not hopeless, anymore.
I SEE how I had to be the "bad" one. I had to keep up that edifice or I would see my M and I couldn't, but can now.
I am so grateful that James had the courage to heal and then show me. I really never expected to be 'whole' after all this time.
Twenty years ago,I had an impression, which promised me that I would heal, that I would be restored. I found God ,in the interim, and now I am finding my own core.
I am getting the best gift of my life,second to finding God. I am getting "myself".
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Dear Ami - I have just read this whole topic for the first time today. I am so sad and yet glad for you, that you have recovered the missing piece that makes everything make sense. When I read your posts, I suddenly really understood for the first time exactly why you feel so deeply unsafe in the company of women. Previously I accepted that it was so, but I had no insight - it was just an intellectual fact, not something I could deeply get, with context. Now I really get it.
You are innocent. Your mom makes her choices and they degrade her. But they do not degrade you. Only that she foisted it on you - forced it upon you - to keep her secret. It's awful.
I understand her facade of the mother. Like other positions that have a lot of authority and a presumption of goodness attached to them, people use them as cover to perpetuate their perversion.
I don't know why exactly this is coming up as an association in my mind, but I will share it and maybe it will mean something to you.
Reading this I keep thinking of a college friend I used to have, who used to tell me 'secrets' that were the kind that you really do NOT want to hear. But then you feel you must keep them because they were told in confidence. She would tell me how she had the hots for her best friend's boyfriend (then fiance and husband) and how she was often tempted to seduce him and calculated that she could make it happen. Then she would do things in public that were flirtatious - brushing up against him or giving him a big full-body hug. Meanwhile, her best friend and the boyfriend were innocent and trusting but I knew it was icky. It was so icky. Lots of things like that and she would keep doing it. Then you are in a bind because you feel you can't tell and nothing happened and you are the 'bad guy.'
Or if I confided in her something vulnerable or embarrassing, later on in the larger group of friends, she would make fun of that thing in general, but not say your name. Do you know what I mean?
Or she would invite two sets of friends to an activity, who did not know each other. Then when everyone was together, she would monopolize one group and ignore the other one.
I have often felt really guilty for what eventually happened, because I handled it poorly. Eventually I told her best friend that she had been telling me how much she wanted to sleep with her husband (by this time they were married). I felt that I should have addressed it with the girl, and not triangulated like that. But the whole thing was a manipulative set-up, wasn't it?
We were at a party once and we were all really wasted and she and I were talking to this really attractive young man, who was far more wasted than we were. He was just absolutely blotto. She pushed me to invite him back to my apartment with the idea that we would take advantage of him. I took a pass on that.
I think she is coming up for me because she is like your mom. They do things the same.
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Dear Iphi,
Thank you for sharing that. After facing this about my M, I realize how important facing ALL truth is. I was missing a piece of myself b/c I had lost this truth about my M(sexual abuse and all the rest which became clear after I saw the sexual). It was that bad.
I had minimized my M so much. i thought that if you lived in a nice house, had piano lessons ,and went to camp, you could not be abused.I added other things like if your parents sent you to college and bought you nice clothes.
I really thought I was 'exaggerating" b/c I was not in a "war zone" or in an orphanage.
I am still in denial, now, but it is lessening.
As it lessens, I click back in to place, as a puzzle.
It is wonderful to click back in, even if it is a little at a time.
Thanks Iphi, for being such a kind friend. Love Ami
(((((Iphi))))))
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I am getting hope. There IS life after an NM. We just go down a little further than the average person,, but the process of getting up is the same, for small problems or large ones.
I feel hopeful for the first time, in a long time. I faced what has been in the back of my psyche.
I want to mine truth, as you mine diamonds. It is as precious as diamonds.
Ami
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I am seeing old patterns I replay in the present,like trying to convince current day relationships of my "worth" by convincing them of something *I *believe. I remember doing this to my M, all the time. I had to get her to understand that I DID know things and see things. I had a deeper reason for being here and was not invisible. I was a person with dimensions, aspects, parts of me which were individual to me. I want to be "seen" and that replays,in many ways.
I see that my "being" here,on the earth does not have to be justified. It just is and I just "am". It does not have to be validated from the outside It is OK just to "be . I do not have to justify my being here by doing things or knowing things. I can just "be".If you "get " this, you have been here. It is an important lesson about inherent value being 'inherent", not earned. Ami
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I see that my "being" here,on the earth does not have to be justified. It just is and I just "am". It does not have to be validated from the outside It is OK just to "be . I do not have to justify my being here by doing things or knowing things. I can just "be".If you "get " this, you have been here. It is an important lesson about inherent value being 'inherent", not earned. Ami
Lovely ((Ami)) love to you always, seasons
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Thank You, Seasons
You have a gift for encouraging and uplifting others.I don't know if you know this, but it is true and it is one of your unique gifts(IMO). People in 3D must know and appreciate this ,too. I would bet on it.
Love Ami
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Alice Miller says that as you heal from abuse, you will feel deep rage. . It is not intellectual, but a "body" feeling.
Seeing myself as "bad" was a defense mechanism so I would not have to face the truth. Shame is a defense mechanism against the deeper feelings of rage , helplessness, hopelessness etc that we have as children, when we are mistreated. We HAVE to blame ourselves and we do.We continue to do so,all through life. We live based on that original decision.
Thinking we were '"bad" was the safe decision,then, based on our home life, the only safe decision.
Ami
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Ami.........what I found about my rage/anger, is that it was a psychological defense protecting myself from the dangerous realization that I was not loved. IMO there simply cannot be a more devastating, painful reality for a child to face than this. True healing in many cases is about facing this.......Love, James
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I felt a "bodily" sense of rage ,this morning, for a short time. It was a strange feeling. Then, it left. I think I was afraid of it b/c it was so different and "overwheling".
Did you experience anything like this, James? Love you, Ami
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Ami.........yes, I have experienced this rage in my body along with other feelings....It's a very positive development eventhough the experience may seem unsettling and startling. You are in the process of healing......with each "release/awareness" you are walking the road to health IMO.........Love, James
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Thank you, James. You are ahead of me,on the road,but I am glad that you turn back to give me a "hand--up". It is much appreciated, dear friend. Love Ami
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I am reassured and inspired by your posts today James and Ami.
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Dear Iphi,
This is the first time ,in my life,including my time on the board, when I had real hope of healing. I have hope ,now. S/times , it is really scary,especially when you "feel" feelings you have pushed down.Sometimes, it is joyful,but I am happy that it is more than just intellectual, more than just "words".
My heart is healing. That is a hope,and I am very grateful . Love Ami
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I felt a "bodily" sense of rage ,this morning, for a short time. It was a strange feeling. Then, it left. I think I was afraid of it b/c it was so different and "overwheling".
Did you experience anything like this, James? Love you, Ami
Ami -- When you get a chance read the Victim Anger thread, if not already. Your rage is OK and so important that it is surfacing. What your mom did was wrong - so painfully wrong.
Hugs,
Lise
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I read it ,Lise. Sometimes, when I want to give up,I think of you and that keeps me going b/c you go bravely on, trying to overcome . Thanks for your posts, Lise. Love Ami
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I am moved by your post here Ami. I have not had the experience you describe because the anger/rage that I felt oozed out for so long and I attached it to incidents that were minor. But I am experiencing the shame and worthlessness that was mine as a child. It is so weird to reexperience that - it is completely wretched.
How relieving it is to come here and read that what you are experiencing is healing and part of the healing process. I immediately recognized what I am experiencing as that. As I was driving along this afternoon I was thinking about Overcomer's thread about feeling stuck and how I was feeling sort of stuck as in repeating the same process yet again but suddenly here I see it as healing and that feels much better.
Also as I was driving I had this peace that the absolute waste of a day was the direct result of the shame I experienced for so long and in a flash I knew that I was not shamed because I had not accomplished anything on my list today - but I had accomplished some part of healing - something that I am not fully understanding as of yet.
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Dear SS
I know there is a "map" for healing,now. That gives me tremendous comfort. I am beside you, on the path,SS.Whether you trip or go forward,on any given day, you are ALWAYS a worthwhile and precious person,in my eyes. Our friends can see us more clearly that we can see ourselves,often.
I look forward to hearing about all your experiences .
I am proud to have you for a friend. Love Ami
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When James talked about anger, the significance did not "hit" me until this morning.
I do NOT "feel" anger ,in a direct way. I have a huge 'block" and a "keep out" sign .
With my H, I can say I am angry,but I don't "feel "it, also with my M and F.
I feel guilty that they provided for me, sent me to college,, etc, etc for me ,so I feel guilty for feeling "angry", like I am ungrateful ,when other people were not as "fortunate".I feel guilty that my H provided ,financially, all these years
Anger feels like "Chinese" to me. It feels foreign. It feels like I do not have the right to go there. It feels dangerous.
I am afraid of it, very afraid. I don't know how to handle it, like you would not know how to handle a tiger . I have been pushed down by the people who were supposed to "love" me and I am afraid of what will happen when I am not pushed down any more.
Will I lose the "love" I already have, ? What love did I have ,that I am so afraid to take a chance of losing it?
All these questions want to be answered and must be, if I am to be a whole person.
I know anger is waiting, with many answers ,which will become available in it's expression. I am afraid, but I must walk through the door b/c it will open the illusions of my life.
My F DID not stand by me . It was a relief b/c I knew,in my gut, that he would never stand up. He allowed a monster to rule the house and it is still the same, virtually.
I have to face that, too. Ami
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This definitely comes from my stuff so it may not connect for you at all but if it does here goes. You write that you feel guilty because your parents provided so much for you, college, etc. Your husband has also provided a comfortable life for you. Do you think they in some quiet way lorded financial resources over you? IOW you had the privileges that money bought but was it always at their pleasure, in their control?
That is where so much rage exists for me. That is what I am on the verge of plumbing next.
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Oh SS,
I am hurting so badly,now. I just told my F not to call me again. He said"IF you "think" she was a monster, she was." I said,"Don't bother calling me again, if you have to "lie" about reality". I want to know ,now, if I am being betrayed, as you always did. If I am, don't bother calling again," and I hung up.
My heart really hurts, badly.
I have to face my H, too. Coming out of denial is an #######.
Finances were used as a tool to induce guilt, SS.I feel very guilty,too, about finances that were 'given" to me .
Love Ami
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My heart aches for you Ami. I am so sorry about your conversation with your father. I know it is extremely painful. I know you had hoped and had believed that he would stand by you. I know you needed him to stand by you after all this time. I am sorry that he failed you again, that his fear of your mother is more important to him than being there for you, than being there to help you through this healing. My heart aches to see this man, this father choose an abusive wife over a young, defenseless child, his child, his child who needed someone to protect her and shield her and provide for her. How could a father do that to his little child!
My heart aches with you. You deserve so much more. You deserve a father who would stand up to the monstrous behavior of your mother. You deserve someone who loves you and who would sacrifice their very own life for you for his child. You deserve a father who would never allow his wife to abuse his own child and get away with it. You deserve a father who would, after all this time, finally do the right thing and sacrifice for you because you needed him to do that then and you need him to do it now. And you deserve it.
My heart aches for that little girl and for the woman she grew into. My heart aches for you and for the pain you are feeling today. My heart is with you and holding your heart and your pain for you today while you begin to heal. My heart aches for you and for all the lost children whose parents abused and stood by while someone else abused us. You deserve better and you need more.
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Thank you SS.
I wish we all could have chosen our parents.
My Aunt protected her children, My uncle, her H and she would have ripped my M to shreds if my M did anything to her kids. My F showed his true colors. He is a little slicker than my M, a little more refined ,but the same.
Wow, SS, you have two doozies and I guess I do, too.
I thought I had one good and one bad, but I have two "bads"---wow. Love you, SS Ami
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Ami,
I remember your father coming to see you and being brave and accountable and giving you love and validation.
Do you think he might have been stopped by the word "monster"? Were you possibly insisting that he agree with that specific word?
I'm not trying to say he's been a good father or that he protected you. He failed. I can see that.
But I am hoping you can still feel your weak, imperfect, CoD father's love. I do think he loves you. He's just not able to fix the past.
And probably, to be forced to call his wife MONSTER, might have been too much for him. Maybe that's why he distanced himself from you in that moment, telling you "if you think she's a monster, she is..." instead of "I agree with you, daughter, my wife is a monster."
You did deserve a heroic, wise, courageous protective father who would identify the mental illness in his wife and see her abusiveness for what it was and stop it in its tracks. You didn't get that.
But you do have a man who was working his 12-step program and had the courage to come to you humbly and admit that he had failed you.
I don't want you to lose that, or toss him completely out with the bathwater...
Does that make sense? If not, please compost.
love,
Hops
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Dear Hops,
I talked to my F and he admitted she was a "monster". I need people to tell the truth, Hops. I just do,in order to have a life that makes sense. Thanks for your post, Hops. Hugs, Ami
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Hey Ami,
I have been following your thread and I am sorry for all your pain. I don't know what to say. I know my friends children are living a life of hell with N mom and thier father who is not an (N) but has a whole set of his own problems does really love his children but to weak (emotionally) to step up to the plate for his children. She runs and threatens and victimizes him too. I don't get it either Ami. There are two adults Mother and Father and either can do anything to save thier children, although one really does love them (father) just very weak and beaten emotionally by the ex wife. Maybe he's co-dependant, don't know, and they are divorced. But she sabotages everything he does. I don't know Ami. I don't get it.
Love
Deb
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Dear Deb,
Actually, discovering this about my M was a turning point in my life which has propelled me to heal, more deeply.
It was a relief b/c nothing made sense and this framed my M, in a way that forced me out of denial.
Truth is so precious . It is the way back to our authentic selves and I want mine, very badly.
I have been so fortunate to find a friend who listens and lets me say anything I need to, no matter how "icky" . That is priceless.
Love and acceptance are so powerful as medicine for the soul(IME). With love, I think we can let the distortions go and walk in to health.
Thank you for your words, Deb. I appreciate your caring , very much. Love Ami
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Hi Ami,
I didn't mean that your Dad shouldn't help by facing facts.
It's just that one person's "monster" is another's "very difficult spouse" and such.
I know, though, words can be used to evade the truth as well as confront it.
I'm glad he finally was able to support you iby supporting your choice of term.
Nism sure is monstrous to me.
I hope that eased some of the pain...I remember how much it comforted you when he did that the first time, coming to you and apologizing.
Are he and your mother still together?
love
Hops
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Dear Hops,
What my M did is monsterous ,in anyone's book. My Dad admitted that and I am fortunate that I have s/one in my court, very fortunate. They are still together.
I don't blame him for that.
He needs to call the truth as it is ,to be in my life, and he is choosing to do this.
Thanks for your concern , Hops. Hugs, Ami
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He needs to call the truth as it is ,to be in my life, and he is choosing to do this.
Sounds like a BOUNDARY to me!
Well good for you, Ami.
I guess a parent in denial can be more painful than noone at all.
And you stood up for your bottom line.
Kudos,
Hops
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Dear Hops,
Anyone, in denial, is worse than no one. Ain't it the truth? Hugs, Ami
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As I see my M for who and what she is, I am starting to have empathy for myself. I always had empathy for her when she hurt me. I never had it for myself. The whole family had it for her b/c they were trained like that.
When I discovered what she did to me, my F was worried about her. *I* was, too.
James helped me see that *I* was the victim here. That is forgotten with N's.
After they abuse you, you still have to feel sorry for THEM. Ain't it the truth?
I am getting a new love for myself, slowly.
I am getting more trust in God .
I am a little way down the road, but a little is a lot, when you have lived with distortions , for a very long time.
I can, finally, say that I think there IS hope for people with an NM. I really could never say this before,but I think there is hope to be emotionally healthy ,even if you had an NM.
Love Ami
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As I see my M for who and what she is, I am starting to have empathy for myself. I always had empathy for her when she hurt me. I never had it for myself. The whole family had it for her b/c they were trained like that.
When I discovered what she did to me, my F was worried about her. *I* was, too.
There is so much contained in these three lines.
so much of my life I have stood by in horror, disbelief and rage at the injustice you describe. I no longer have a need to understand why as much as I have learned to take it as a fact. But I have never seen the significant part - about having empathy for myself. I had two marriages where there was NO empathy for me or my needs. That was very, very destructive for me. Now when I want to do something for myself I have a deeply enmeshed just barely conscious power that says, "No you don't deserve that. We will humiliate you if you try.
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Dear SS
Alice Miller puts forth a new paradigm.which is the emphasis on the childs feelings. Alice sees the childs life from his persepctive, while the "world" sees the child ,from the parents perspective. IOW, the world tells you to forgive and get over it. Alice tells you to honor yourself. As I have truly faced my life, I am shifting my "loyalty" from my M,and her needs to myself.. She tried,and still tries, to make me feel sorry for her and minimize my feelings and needs. It was always like this and I agreed.
As I shift my POV, I am healing.
Even a little healing is wonderful. "You"(I) are priceless. All struggles to find yourself, are worth it(IMO)
I never knew how to heal,before. It is a gift to have a map and friends ,like you, to share the journey. Love Ami
((((SS)))))))))
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Ami,
You said that you need people to be truthful... but I am guessing your father is like mine, and can't SEE the truth. He hides it under layers and avoids it at all costs. I think if my father faced the real truth, he would crumble. SO he does whatever he needs to do to protect his idea of self (a kind mand married 40 years to the same woman). My father is loyal to the point of stupidity - with work, family, spouse... He sacrifices himself to believe there is something to believe in. And in turn has lost all, because he is depressed and angry insidfe now, and doesn't know why.
That is how I see it... He can't destroy the only thing that has made sense to him his whole life. It would be like suicide.
Love, Beth
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My dad was the same way, Beth...I think that's why I felt like "cushioning" Ami's dad.
Fortunately for him, my Nmother was nowhere near as monster-ous as Ami's, though she did her own special ladylike form of maddening sabotagish crazymaking damage--to me. No overt abuse though, just so much gaslighting she could've worked for an oil refinery. :? She did support and champion my Dad.
I think my Dad was depressed at times, more likely deeply bewildered. I think he craved more affection, and had no idea why it wasn't forthcoming. But he was too sweet and self-effacing to demand anything. By the end of his life, though, he still loved her, and I hope he'd made his peace. They did have a very shared life -- shared travel and friends--and maybe those compensations were enough for him. I hope so.
He was deeply Christian with an unwavering luminous faith, and that probably helped him accept her as she was.
xo
Hops
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Dear Beth and Hops,
My F is facing the truth. I am fortunate about this, but the damage had been done,in me, so it is really not that helpful, as far as my rehabilitation from being a D of an N.
I am happy for my F's support, but it pales next to the damage that is inside me, from being her D.
Love to you, Ami
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Can you allow your father's love to help you, Ami?
In my experience, knowing my father loved me helped me a lot.
Even though he was Casper Milquetoast and Walter Mitty put together.
Hope that might become true for you too one day, Ami.
Hops
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I am trying to face myself. I am getting angry at people who don't matter . My M acted like a Boob. She acted outrageously and then blamed me. I would be mind my own business and she would provoke me, attack me, ravage me. At some point, I stopped fighting back and blamed myself.
What gets me really angry ,in my current life, is when s/one is an outrageous person and then tries to blame me for their actions.My M would not own her actions. She tried to make me the "bad "one, when It was she , all along.
I get enraged when s/one does it to me,but I cannot feel anger toward my M. I am displacing anger.
Ami
PS Why is it any of MY concern if s/one is a boob? It is not a reflection on me. I wanted my M to SEE how she hurt me. I wanted her to own it. I wanted justice to prevail and the victim ,me, to be seen as the innocent one and the boob to be seen as the predator.
So, I get angry at that situation in my current life, instead of walking away and leaving the Boob there, with NO relationship or relevance to me. AMEN
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I ,also, get angry at "Holier than thou" people.
They could be annoying, but would not have a "charge" for me, if I did not have my M' "holier than thou" behavior, at the root. Ami
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Hi Ami,
If I offended you with my comments about your dad, please let me know.
I'm not sure if I came off "holier than thou" or if it was me you were referring to.
I'm a pathetic mindreader but if I did offend, I'd like to know.
thanks,
Hops
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I don't want to get in to it, now, Hops. Maybe, another time. Ami
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Ami
You dragged me into this with your outrageous PM. Why would you send accustions like that about lighter and presume changing is dead?
Who else received that PM? Did you really send it to Dr. Grossman? Were you trying to 'gaslight' me?
You have enough crap on your plate without running around making up more crap....inventing stories and hurting people!
On my part? I think you are capable of inventing stories about your life.
Izzy
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Dear Izzy
I am sorry you had such pain in your life, the N's, your D, your accident. I hope you find peace and joy in your days. I truly do, Izzy.
Ami