Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Juno on June 18, 2008, 10:10:52 AM
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I am Juno who used to post as Pennyplant.
My depression has been with me about 85% of the time for many, many weeks now. I recognize how it may screw up some of my perceptions. It doesn't mess with my ability to understand. Just throws my emotions and priorities out of whack. Triggers my self-hatred more often and more deeply. But I can still think and understand and see things that really are there even if nobody else sees or agrees with me on the importance of what I'm seeing. I'm talking about behaviors of others, etc.
I did a lot of work recently on my Pennyplant's Turning Points thread. Then I took it down last week after printing it all out for myself. I had a lot of very personal things on there. I thought maybe it was time to call back those pieces of my soul. So to speak. I guess I'm at the point where I recognize how much of myself, the soft parts of myself, that I give away too freely only to have less concerned people use it as a way in, a way to hurt me. That's a really hard concept for me but I think I'm getting it little by little. When I give away my power, someone else is going to be empowered. Something like that.
My skills at connecting with the world at large are very elementary at this point in my life. Partly due to the above-mentioned depression. Partly due to never having been taught a damn thing about give and take in relationships and groups.
So, even though what I've been reading on here for weeks now has sickened me, and I have silenced myself (as usual, as a result) still, I check in for some reason. Curiosity? Weakness? Loneliness? I have no idea. Certainly this board is not currently helping me with the huge hurdles I face every day at my terrible job. I'm drawing on past lessons from this place for that.
I'm at a point this week, and last week, where I read the posts and I think--I am not connecting with very many of these posters. People are getting pats on the back for posting things that appall me. People are getting bullied who I feel are being taken advantage of in their current weakness. People are talking, talking, talking, talking, talking, talking.
For me--I want very much to have my dignity. I have brought that up before. That is one of the reasons I have silenced myself. I am bound to say something that somebody will jump on me for. Sometimes I think that's the only reason I exist. So others can feel superior in some way. More powerful. I sure draw all kinds of negative attention to myself just for breathing. Or for being a redhead. For being small. For having opinions. For existing.
There are people here I like. At least from what I know about them. There are people here I cannot make myself get along with. Mostly, though, I just don't connect.
I see a lot of what I consider to be power plays here. I am not interested in that kind of thing. Which is probably what makes me into a target. It makes me a minority for sure.
I honestly don't think I will live long enough, even if I live to be 100, to learn the ins and outs of getting along and connecting with more than a few others at a time. I am going to have to learn to be okay with that.
I'm not sure what I want to accomplish with this post. Maybe I just want to practice my "policy" of non-aggressive honesty. That's harder than it sounds. I don't always succeed. And it seems to me that my aspiring to be a non-aggressive person is what is delaying my ability to connect with others.
I mean, look at all the bonding that is occurring here due to what I would call aggression!!! Posters start out hurling insults and end up praising and loving each other. That's what it looks like to an outsider like me, anyway. That's how it is at my job, too!!! Just wears me out. I think life is hard enough all on it's own.
If anything here resonates, fine. Respond away. But I have no real intention or goal with this post. Maybe I just decided to remove my own tape from my own mouth. That sounds like something I would do.
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((((((((PP))))))))) You do have great dignity, in my eyes.
I've felt as you've described, but not so much or often anymore.
Not totally sure why, except I just wouldn't give up.
Please don't stop trying and reaching out. You are very precious indeed.
Love,
Carolyn
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Hey Juno, I totally relate with you. This is the kind of posts we need. People addressing their real problems. I do not what to tell you, but I realte with you. I have not been depressed lately despite that I do not have a job and I am very stressed. But I used to be very depressed before.
Detachmetn, work on detachment has helped me a lot, do you think you can do that? Also, taking anti-depressants. Are you seeing a doctor?
I wish I could take medication, but I do not have insurance right now, so I cannot even go to the doctor.
Do you still have energy to do your daily activities? That is very important.
Can you enter a daily mood log? If you do not have one I can give you one.
My heart goes out to you.
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I think that you probably, on top of the depression, are more comfortable communicating with one or 2 people at a time.
That's pretty much me, too.
A crowd drains me and I have to hybernate for a while.
Depression makes it almost impossible to keep moving forward.
That we survive it can provide some self esteem but....
you have to get through the depression.
Have you talked with a T?
I'm glad you came to the board and talked about your feelings, no matter who you think is right or wrong.
Please keep talking and working on you.
Lighter
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I honestly don't think I will live long enough, even if I live to be 100, to learn the ins and outs of getting along and connecting with more than a few others at a time. I am going to have to learn to be okay with that
Penny,
I think that you will. The skills will come in little pieces and mostly by interacting with people and feeling really uncomfortable. I ALWAYS feel uncomfortable. Always.
I happened across a book about marriage relationships that gave me some unexpected insight into a phenomenon called "flooding". That's where the triggers around the person push them into a zone where they feel overwhelmed emotionally. Some people have a low set point for that, others have a higher one. Some react to triggers that the next person doesnt. The set point can change with time and effort--I know mine has changed a lot.
A lot of people here are flooded. If emotions had a speedometer, many of us would be at about 90 mph--and I am including myself in that. I try to give myself a chance to work through my flood before I post, but I dont know if that is actually effective or not. If we were in 3D we would all take a time-out--but taking a time-out on a board where our entire relationship is talking would turn this place into a ghost town.
Still, I suspect that the flood level is going up with each new conversation.
I value your participation here--I always have. I used to read old posts from old threads and I always enjoyed yours.
Love
CB
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Ahhh, CB.
Books!
Yes.
I remember get plenty of insight from the book:
"Getting the love you need"
I thinkthat was it.
It helped me figure out some of the major pieces of why people do what we do.
And how we can view it, as opposed to become overwhelmed by it.
It's not our job to KNOW everything....
it's our job to keep from getting overwhelmed while learning.
That was a tremendous insight as well.... taking responsibility for becoming overwhelmed and learning how to come out of it and stay out of it.
Not that Imanage perfectly, I don't.
But it was a very important lesson, none the less.
Lighter
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I can relate, Juno. I bet we all can.
For me, I must feel the original feelings of pain and let them go. I can and have talked about them for a long time but never healed them b/c I did not "feel" them.
I am doing that with a friend(s) who act as Enlightened Witnesses, as Alice Miller calls them.
I am healing, for the first time, IMO.
I am glad you reached out. That is a very,very good step. I bet you didn't want to and it was hard.
Keep reaching out, Juno.
Warmly, Ami
((((((Juno))))))
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I promised myself I would rest a great deal today because I suffered a triggering incident at work yesterday afternoon and it took a lot out of me emotionally and physically. Rest was the one thing I knew I could do that would help. So, I rested several hours after posting this morning. Still have to do some more self-care and then go back to work.
I am very glad I explained myself the way I did. Each of your responses both surprises me and nurtures me. Every one of them.
Carolyn: Thank you for seeing my dignity and preciousness. And thank you for telling me you used to feel this way and don't so much anymore. It gives me hope.
Lupita: I am not seeing a doctor or taking anti-depressants. I know I should be but I am struggling with asking for that help. I know I need it but it is a hurdle for me right now. I have many of the classic symptoms of depression including lack of energy for the things I used to enjoy doing. Perhaps a mood log would help. If you would like to post one, that would be cool.
Lighter: Where I work they do offer an Employee Assistance Program and I know co-workers who have been helped by getting referrals for Therapists. Not sure what is holding me back from calling. Perhaps that is the next thing I will learn how to do. I am surprised to hear that you have trouble with a crowd of people. The thing is, I have trouble reading your writing style--since I cannot read all of your posts closely then it makes sense I have missed seeing an important aspect of who you are. I bet I have missed a lot of clues about people here and for similar reasons.
CB: Well, your information about flooding and triggers has hit something in me. That must be why I always want to run away. My job is incredibly stressful and has been for a long time. My set point must be very low right now. Then keep in mind that I have a possible sociopath making out my work schedule each week and signing my leave slips and it's no wonder I had to sleep it off this morning. It's just too much. I did not know that you always feel uncomfortable. Another thing that doesn't come across on a computer screen.
Ami: I have not met any Enlightened Witnesses in my travels. I expect I will not. I think I am not on such a path. I look around me and see that each person in this life has maybe a couple things that they can live for and then the rest of life seems to be difficulties. I am mostly on my own. Yet, I have a husband who is the first boyfriend I ever had and who has been my companion through thick and thin. The odds were much against two 17-year-olds making it this far in life when they both had lousy up-bringings and started out as young un-wed parents. While I find it lonely to have so few close relationships in this life, I realize that my marriage is something of a miracle and most people don't even get that. So, maybe my husband is my Enlightened Witness. I don't know. And you're right. I did not want to reach out. I never want to reach out. But this morning I finally had something to say.
This is such a hard path we take here. I can fully understand why most people do not embark on it. I'm not so sure I would have chosen it if I had been asked. Though some people think we are "asked" and that we do choose our path. I can't imagine what I was doing before this that would have caused me to pick to this one. If I'm smart, I'll pick something that involves a little more pleasure next time.....
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Hi juno/PP
I am sorry you are feeling so down and depressed. I, too, suggest an anti-depressant to assist in elevating your mood. I do believe that will help you to process your thoughts differently.
As far a choosing the wrong road....many have done that but wouldn't have if they had known what it would entail. I am one of those people, and as I reach the latter part of my life, I can look back at all my erroneous -for-me decisions and choices. I base this mainly on the lack of assistance with being a baby, a toddler, a child, a growing child, a teen.....
....then I set out on my own with little or no information about life. I was struck with depression then, although I might have had low grade depression all my life, i.e. from the beginning.
I am over all that now and my finding this board on which to post my feelings, or lack thereof, my experiences with two Ns and with my FOO, my situation with my daughter.......................... this is the only place I could post all that and not run away thinking I would be hated.
I have pulled through some really sticky spots to go further and have released my anger and resentments. I keep away from toxic people in my real life and have mended fences with my daughter.
.....but I am still thinking, about what a waste my life has been, because I started this too late.
Please take care and please consider medication
Izzy
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Hi Juno,
I find your writing beautiful in its clarity, honesty, simplicity.
I hear your depression and urge you to fight your way to an appointment with a therapist, and keep going. It may feel like walking through mud with an anvil on your head, that's just how it feels when a depressed person takes an action.
But I hope you will. Otherwise, you and your black dog stay alone.
You deserve all the support you can muster. The thing is, you've got to do the mustering.
Redheads rock,
Hops
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I have to leave for work in nine minutes.
Izzy: Sometimes I could cry to think of all the time that goes by while I fumble around and around. Recently I looked back at some decisions I made in 1993 that I would say have led to where I'm at now as far as this lousy job, etc. It took me fifteen years to realize just where I went wrong in my thinking! To really understand it. I decided to take it as a lesson for future such decisions. So, not a complete waste. But--fifteen years! All this stress! The things I missed with my kids! The stuff I'm just not going to have time to do! Maybe when I'm not depressed I won't think of it that way anymore.
Hops: Me and my black dog. Sometimes it is a relief to be left alone with my black dog. It is my escape from the toxicity in my life. But sometimes I am quite restless. Perhaps it is the restlessness that will get me to the phone one day soon.
Now to head back into it.
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I see a lot of what I consider to be power plays here. I am not interested in that kind of thing. Which is probably what makes me into a target.
Dear Juno,
I have read your posting of dignified expression, with empathy and understanding. I agree with accord of your discernment, as above, as that is, I believe, the root of the problem here on board.
As such, last night, in order to release myself and others from this burdensome tumult - I sat and deleted ALL the threads that I had created and posted onto the "What Helps" board.
And also, sat and deleted here on the Main Board, only leaving some remaining thread topics that I have created.
My heart's desire is peace and understanding, one to another, and harmony - not division, discord and strife. So, my real hope is that 'it is finished' and done with, for ALL and Everyone.
I am so glad that you have shared your voice here today in sharing of your thoughts, all of which are valued and appreciated.
Please know that your voice flows clearly.
And I too, have read and appreciated your posts.
Please take care of you.
Love, Leah
edit: typo error
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Dear Juno... Pennyplant,
I'm so glad that you reached out here.
Wish I knew more about antidepressants, but I can only tell you that I would have tried them, if I'd had access during the dark age.
I'm praying that grip is broken from you and that you will see the many possibilities which lie before you.
That's what I lost sight of for awhile...
they're always there, just invisible for a season.
Please post when you can and keep in touch.
Love,
Carolyn
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Hi Leah, It is a big deal to really lay things to rest. I think that is what deleting those threads can be for you. Carolyn taught me a while back about becoming new. It was a hard concept for me but so very useful once I figured out a way for me to understand it. It has made a big difference in my life. I do think it is possible to lay the past to rest without denying the past. It sounds like you have found a way to go forward now. This was/is a very rough patch. Things are different now. People are different now. There is a history now, but that doesn't have to hold us hostage. Let's see what happens next.....
Thank you for responding and telling us what you decided to do about how to move forward.
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Carolyn, I think I am afraid that anti-depressants won't work for me or that I will have a significant adjustment period. I was on prozac over ten years ago and it helped a lot. Then I went off it cold turkey, which I have heard is a bad idea. But we had a gap in insurance and I thought we couldn't afford to pay out of pocket for a year. Another one of my decisions that I now question. Anyway, I tried a similar anti-depressant a couple years ago and it did nothing for me. It was like taking a placebo. I was so disappointed.
There are other things holding me back, too. Mainly the depression itself. Anxiety, loss of confidence, things like that. I've slipped back into awful-izing things. Every single thing is harder now than it should be. At some point I will just have to force myself to take care of this. It has been going on too long and with fewer and fewer respites.
Bedtime now. Good night.
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Juno,
Is part of it maybe due to hormonal changes, etc? Please don't be afraid to try another sort of treatment. There are so many changes and new advancements made all the time... sure seems worth a try.
Alot of what you describe can hit me suddenly from time to time, but it doesn't usually settle in for long.
Maybe a new medication would help shorten the episodes or kick-start you out of the rut?
Yikes, that doesn't sound too pleasant, sorry... but you know what I mean.
Hope you get some rest.
Love,
Carolyn
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I have often wondered if it could be partly hormonal. I have had depression off and on since I was eleven. I distinctly remember a particular day at that age when I felt a way I had never felt before. It was a sense of foreboding, I guess. It was a very cold feeling. I am very effected by external events and most of my external "events" are very negative these last fifteen years. I'm just tired of it. Of everything.
A couple weeks ago, we invited my favorite cousin and her husband over for takeout BBQ. We spent the entire afternoon visiting and enjoying each other's company. I felt so good the next day (even though I was at work!). I'm sure it was because of the nice social activity. They said, boy, we haven't been to your house in two years! I know that is not true. They've been over a couple other times this year. But we hadn't invited them in a very, very long time. The things we need to do.... we don't feel like doing. This depression is a vicious cycle.
Yesterday, we had our youngest son and his girlfriend over and also my oldest son called to chat. It was for my birthday. We had a good time together. Maybe these are some tentative first steps towards normalcy again. I guess I can decide they are and try taking more steps.
This depression gets triggered very easily as time goes on. The first bad one started one autumn after about two and half years with my N boss. This was simultaneous with my father's health deteriorating so quickly that my responsibilities to him greatly increased. Kids still in high school then too. Less and less time for fun get-togethers. Then other hard things came along. All of which I responded to with typical voiceless behaviors and coping "skills". I was 33 when it started. I wondered then if it was hormonal or seasonal or whatever. But I am not in menopause now at age 47, so really, the thing that makes sense is that I have this depressive tendency, along with voicelessness and external stresses. I'm not really sure though since I'm muddling along with my own homemade plan.
I have work to do. Drugs, counseling, and doing the things I hesitate to do--you know, getting out there more in the world. I gotta go slow, though.
Carolyn, I wish I could send you some flowers--thank you for sticking with me. I know I'm moving so slowly, but I am absorbing what everyone is offering. It really is helping.
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((((((((((())))))))))))) Wish I could do more for you... but I will do this, and listen, dear Penny.
I can relate to alot of it, very much.
The things we need to do.... we don't feel like doing.
Completely understood.
It's why I've been so dependent on routine and tend to become habitual about certain activities.
At times, it's felt like that was all that was keeping me going... and not a forward motion, but circular.
Birthday blessings to you. I'm at the same life stage and it doesn't have to be menopause directly in order to feel like a boom's been lowered.
Really, I feel it, too... and muddling along is the best I can manage at times.
Maybe these are some tentative first steps towards normalcy again. I guess I can decide they are and try taking more steps.
I think that's the key.
Decide.
I'm with you all the way.
Love,
Carolyn
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Juno, I am very sorry.
I know what it's like to feel that shroud.
You are worth happiness.
(If one Rx doesn't do it, another often will. Takes some patience and maybe a couple trials.)
love to you,
Hops
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Hi Pennyplant,
But I am not in menopause now at age 47, so really, the thing that makes sense is that I have this depressive tendency, along with voicelessness and external stresses. I'm not really sure though since I'm muddling along with my own homemade plan.
Menopause in the beginning stages can be a stealthy little booger. For instance, when mine started, the first symptom was that my tear ducts ached and the pain extended up the outer side of my eyes and to just beneath my eyebrows. I saw the eye doctor. Diagnosis, dry eyes. I was about your age. The next symptom was panic attacks. The moment I opened my eyes at waking, the panic started. Never had that ever before. True I was under the stress of self-contracting the building of a new home, but nothing else unusual going on, The next symptom was two very odd outbursts that I didn't understand. They were so off the wall. I am usually a pretty level headed person. None of this had menopause written on it, but looking back, I think it was the early stages of menopause. I'm not trying to argue you down that your symptoms are menopause. The main thought I want to communicate is that the early stages of M can be easily overlooked by you and your doctors. Had I known what I think I know now, when those early signs began, it would have freed my mind to some estent, knowing that there was a reason I was experiencing these odd symptoms.
PP, sorry you're having a tough go. I'm not diagnosing, but I want to make a suggestion. Pamper yourself. Make a list of the things you've always enjoyed doing but aren't doing now and rekindle those passions. Don't neglect doing girlie things for yourself. Talk to your doctor(s). Don't allow them to dismiss your symptoms. I'm sounding like grandma aren't I. Ok, I'll play grandma to you today. Sending you my best...
tt
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(((((((((Tt)))))))))) thanks for detailing that a bit.... oh boy, do I recognize those signs.
Penny... what she said! It comes and goes, though, and as unsettling as it can be, just knowing that it'll pass helps so much.
Not diagnosing either, only aware that this could be part of what's happening with you.... and compounding the rest of the stuff.
And highly recommending the pampering approach!
Love,
Carolyn
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PP,
Meno here too. When I use to read a board of women who were pre meno I seen many similar things we speak on here, Minus, N, P or NP... and it changes ... and wondreing where you want your life to go, are you happy. I cry on commercials sometimes and then stick my head in the frig.. whoa, Hot Flash....
Love
Deb
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Well, I was thinking that since this has been off and on for about ten or twelve years now--that seems like a very long pre-menopause. But I think there is a consensus here with your comments.... and I'm not opposed to it being physical or hormonal.... just kind of want it to be something I can actually fix, you know? I do see physical signs of aging in me, it's not like time has stood still in my body. It's just been such a long time to feel this way. When I was young, I thought I would be a-okay at this stage of the game. Instead I feel worse than I did when I was a teen. So frustrating.
It's hard to know how to pamper myself or take good care of myself. I have been working on that, though, and improving.
This is all very overwhelming. All the things that I could be doing to heal. All the parts of me that need healing. Navigating real life in the midst of all of it. Tough times out there in the real world. Very overwhelming.
tt--you're a good gramma. All the rest of you--good sisters. Thank you.
Things I used to enjoy: reading, writing, cross-stitch, crochet, sewing, gardening, and there are more. My favorite thing now is....sleeping. Oh boy, I have a ways to go. I'm not a lump all the time. But I sure have changed. I would like to have things to look forward to again. It's been so long.
I'm stopping for tonight. Ladies, thank you for talking about this with me. It helps. I'll keep thinking about what you all have said here.
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PP
I sympathize, but have never been there.
I had some 'changes' when I was 35.......and you wouldn't believe what doctors will blame on my accident condition. He said my menopause had begun.
When I was in my late 40s I had a D&C and I was 58 when I had my last period.
It went so smoothly I never knew. I don't mean to make you feel badly..........worse than you do, but mine was all in thinking I would have a period forever.....and just ignored things as they happened.
Just as I don't think I'll die, as I'm still alive and don't know what it is like to die (well I did have an spiritual experience at the accident scene) so I cannot picture dying.
These are the changes we endure during our life span and some handle them worse than others/are affected worse than others.
I better read again as I was going to say that your doctor ought to be able to do something. ANYTHING!
You caught my attention with sleep. I love sleeping, except I am not awake to enjoy it!
Best
Izzy
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Dear PP,
Maybe a booster of B-12? Oh, it's so hard - not having a definitive solution to offer.
One thing at a time is all I know to try... and I began with just a good quality multi-vitamin and extra B12 tablet. It really helped!
Oh, and the pampering kinda stuff I began was nothing too fancy at all really... just some lavender bath bubbles & a candle for atmosphere, some quality lotion (dry skin was making me feel all-around :P), a small bottle of expensive hair conditioner, and a new book. Oh, and I bought one of those fingernail buffing pads with 3 sides, for 3-step polishing that lasts. lol... I know, but this was quite something for a person like me who hadn't paid any attention at all to such stuff and never considered I was worth the added expense of a few luxuries.
When I was young, I thought I would be a-okay at this stage of the game. Instead I feel worse than I did when I was a teen. So frustrating.
Yes. I recognize this.... and pp, nothing I've found is better than surrounding yourself with people who will keep assuring you that you really are a-okay.
Your mind has not yet awakened to that fact, but I see it and I am sure that others do, too! It's just so very hard to be needy and vulnerable in front of the very people who can let you lean a bit, till you feel stronger. I pray, I lean on God, I know that He loves me... but He keeps saying - you need people, too!
I've tried to fight that as much as anything in my life, but it's an undeniable fact. And I don't mean "need" in an un-healthy way... just that we are each made for relationship, imo, and when we don't make ourselves available for that, despite the risks, we suffer for it.
Hope that makes sense and doesn't feel overwhelming to you. I know it's hard stuff.
Love,
Carolyn
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My doctor could do something--anything--if I went to the doctor and actually asked for help. I don't go very often and when I do I don't complain too much. I think I give up too easy.
I did call the Employee Assistance Program this morning. And they gave me the name of a counselor in the next county who accepts this program. I left a voice message with her office and hopefully they'll call back this morning. I guess I'm just worn out enough to stop fighting it now. One of the things I was worried about was that I would be referred to a counselor in my town and then I would run into them at work when they came in to buy stamps or something. So, that is one worry off my list. This counselor is 35 minutes away from where I live so I doubt she will buy any stamps from me anytime soon.
Pampering--I always take a hot bath with aroma therapy foaming salts. It is my ritual that I follow consistently. But there are days when going to bed and sleeping is more appealing to me than my wonderful baths. If I could get on top of this depression, then the good things would make more of a difference, I think. And I might want to do more good things.
I have never paid much attention to taking care of myself. I have vanity and pride but not a lot of self-worth. So, I usually look presentable. But stuff for me.... gets put aside often enough. I know people who buy themselves jewelry all the time, go to tanning booths all the time, get manicures, massages, take lessons, all kinds of pampering stuff. I do next to none of those things. For all kinds of reasons.
Surrounding myself with people who let me know I'm a-okay..... my husband can do that for me a lot. Sometimes too much. But I don't ask that much of people for the most part. I have a couple people who I know love me. But I just don't know what to do with that. And I don't ask. I always knew I couldn't ask my parents or sister for that. That was what I was supposed to do for them. So, I just never asked it of anyone. Or if I did, I was rejected. And the few times I received it, then those people left me for whatever reason.
It's just built up too much now. I hope this EAP thing works out. The counselor's last name is Pond. That sounded so calming when I heard it. It would be nice if she takes after her name.
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My doctor could do something--anything--if I went to the doctor and actually asked for help. I don't go very often and when I do I don't complain too much. I think I give up too easy.
Me too, either. There was more to it than feeling unworthy, too. I was self-destructive at the core, actively engaging in my own demise.
Perfectionism and a sense of heavy responsibility for every outcome in my little corner of the universe worked together to leave me feeling worthy, alright... worthy of suffering.
Contacting the counselor through EAP is a great, big start.... you did good! I hope they call back right away and I hope you'll let us know.
Getting worn out enough to stop fighting... yourself... is where it all begins. You've got plenty of fight in you, just need to direct it elsewhere.
Love,
Carolyn
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Well, she didn't call back today. I guess I'll have to call again on Monday. I have three business days to report back to EAP about when my first appointment is scheduled or ask for an extension. It's not going to be instant success. More steps to take. I guess just keep going forward until it either works out or doesn't work out. I'm kind of annoyed but not defeated.
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Sounds like a very annoying process... but trying to get something accomplished on Friday often is.
Hang in there... it'll come together.
You're taking a good, solid step in the right direction and that's a great encouragement!
(((((((not defeated)))))) : )
Love,
Carolyn
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Juno:
Glad you made the T call.... in any case.
Do call back tomorrow and get that appt, when you can.
As for skipping your self care bath ritual.... try to stick with it.
One good feeling leads to another, IME.
Hope you get out of this depression soon.
Lighter
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I'm definitely going to keep calling back until I can get an appointment. And a good soaking tonight. And I would very much like to be done with this depression. It's so exhausting.
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Well... in any case....
don't beat yourself up.
Be kind, treat yourself as you would a welcomed guest.
Let the voice inside your head be patient.... ask yourself what you need... if you're hungry.... what you need to do in the moment.... gently and with kindness.
Facing terrible things can make us sleepy and emotionally exhausted.
Sometimes we need help, so.....
I'm glad you'll continue calling for appt: )
Lighter
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Was checking in Juno, and see you have many supporters and comfort going your way.
Keep on trying, meds and therapy appear to be called for, but your system will know best about the medication
xx
Izzy
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The counselor called back a few minutes ago and I have an appointment for next Wednesday. Trying not to get my hopes up too far, but she sounded nice on the phone. I'm worried I will screw this up. Lately I have so much trouble getting along with people. If I annoy the counselor how will she be able to help me? I want this to work. But for it to work, I have to be my real self. And my real self can be a real pain in the butt.
Well, I did it. I'm going to try.
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Wonderful, Juno!
Your real self is the one who wants help... and that's just how it should be!!
I think that any trained counselor worth her salt would be glad to have a client who's a genuine person, willing to reveal herself honestly and receive honest feedback. In fact, I think that's pretty rare!
Congratulations on following through - you have done great! And I am so glad she called you back first thing this morning. That's a very good sign, I think.
Love,
Carolyn
P.S. I'm still having a hard time imagining you as a pain in the butt, tho!
edited because I hit "send" too soon.
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I looked her up on-line and she doesn't have a website but she may be the person I found who graduated from a good school around here in 1984--so if that is her, she should have quite a bit of experience by now. Maybe she's already heard it all. Maybe she'll think I'm just your run of the mill depressed person. And I can definitely be a pain in the butt--just ask any of my Ns :wink:.
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I looked her up on-line and she doesn't have a website but she may be the person I found who graduated from a good school around here in 1984--so if that is her, she should have quite a bit of experience by now. Maybe she's already heard it all. Maybe she'll think I'm just your run of the mill depressed person.
Sounds good, Juno... and that's what I do, also - - Google is our friend! lol
As far as having a run of the mill, ordinary depression... hey, that may actually be some of the best news possible! Let the depression be ordinary! You are still extra-ordinary, unique, and exceptional.
I was reading last night about the connection between repressed anger and depression (being anger turned inward, etc.) and how we can unwittingly become partners in our own destruction. Knowledge and awareness are a good start to digging out, I think! Here's the link to the subject index, in case you're interested. There are several different subtopic links under depression.
Link inserted on edit... whoops! http://www.guidetopsychology.com/topics.htm (http://www.guidetopsychology.com/topics.htm)
And I can definitely be a pain in the butt--just ask any of my Ns :wink:.
.....which is just exactly as it should be :lol:
((((((Juno)))))) please keep in touch.
Love,
Carolyn
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Juno,
Is your appointment tomorrow or next week?
Just checking.
Love,
Carolyn
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Carolyn--it's next week. Gives me a lot of time to mull it over and get myself all worked up! I should be pretty beat by then, too--vacation season at work so I will be working the early shift nearly every day. Of course, the more tired I am the more my defenses sort of fall by the wayside. Maybe that will be good. At any rate, we shall see.
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Okay, Juno... thanks. Just wanted to be sure.
I expect you'll be able to get out just exactly what needs to come out... at just exactly the right time.
That's how it seems to work, when a person is ready.
Hugs,
Carolyn
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I think I'm ready this time.
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Good for you, Juno
Remember to not 'freeze up' with information about yourself. The therapists have heard everything, and saying some things out loud, to another, is the first step in making them go away.
Listen to the therapist to make sure he/she is on the same page with you and not takiing off in another direction, as you might have been misunderstood.
I am not trying to scare you. Just as happens on this Board, people misunderstand one another. The therapist can be your best freind!
Love
Izzy
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Thank you Izzy. I will keep this in mind. I am worried that I will be "unlikeable" because of the things I may have to talk about and also my anger. In real life people don't want to hear these things. At least my people don't. I'm afraid I will get my feelings hurt again if the therapist can't understand me or doesn't fit with me. I've had so many slaps in the face in my life.
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Dear Juno,
I'm don't know much about it, but... therapists aren't really supposed to operate from the level of liking or disliking people, are they?
I mean... if you were to start getting vibes that a professional has a personal view of you one way or another like that, seems like it'd be a clue that things might be headed in the wrong direction.
Izzy's right, I think... these folks have heard it all - and that's pretty comforting, actually.
And it really does change everything to get your own honest words out there into the air... especially when there's another human being sitting there in front of you whom you do not have to try to impress.
You sure sound ready to me! Just wishing you the very best.
Love,
Carolyn
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juno: one thing you said in your first message on this thread really resonated with me, which is the fear of letting people know important things about you, for fear that knowledge will be used against you. In my family, this was my NF's daily routine. He tried to find out what was going on in our lives that we liked, cared about, enjoyed--so he could destroy them by mocking, denigrating, putting down, humiliating. Over and over this pattern played out. So I learned that if something or someone was precious to me, I could never, ever trust my family to know about it. This has played out in my adult life as well, and in the one time I tried therapy. I just couldn't trust my therapist with the things she might have been able to help me with. I hope for you that you can just take the leap of faith, trust that this woman will be able to help you, and that in any event sharing those past experiences openly will relieve some of the burden of carrying them around in your head. hang in there.
re: anti-depressants, there is one that has worked for me, and it's natural and over-the-counter: SAMe. It only works for depression caused by certain chemical imbalances, but it's easily Google-able, if you aren't familiar with it already.
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Carolyn, I guess I'm thinking even a professional person is going to have some opinions of their own. And I'm thinking how I am--occasionally a person will just give me the creeps or antagonize me immediately and I just can't deal with them at all. I guess I'm worrying over silly things. I am not an aggressive or threatening person so there is no reason for her to take an instant dislike to me. Well, unless I remind her of someone. I have this knack or "talent" for not getting along with some women. A tall or heavy woman will dislike me because I am small and relatively slim. At least that's what I think it is. Women "check me out" all the time and have said things like "I have that exact same shirt but it looks way better on you." I don't know what it is about me for sure. I can do some guesswork based on snide comments.... but I guess I don't really know what is going on in people's minds.
See what I mean about having a whole week to get myself worked up? I'm just in such a weak position these days. Not even close to being my best self at all.
Gjazz, I am going to take this leap of faith. Whatever happens, I will either benefit from it or pick myself up and try something else. I have looked up SAMe. I found a lot of scientific articles which were over my head. But it sounds like the studies they have were well-done. I am hoping I can take something along with the talk therapy.
I tried chromium picolinate based on an article I read a couple of years ago talking about the kind of depression some people have where they come out of it when around cheerful people. That kind of fit me so I tried it then and it seemed like it worked. Recently tried it again and it seemed like it made me feel unwell. So, I looked it up again today and the science is not as clear with chromium. It talked a lot about insulin. I'm not sure what to do. I'm kind of lax on taking medications. I'll take it for awhile then, when I feel better, I forget about it.
I will keep in mind the SAMe as it sounds more promising than the chromium picolinate. Maybe she will try to find out what kind of depression I have.
I feel like I'm going into this with "back-up"! I would very much like for this to get me on the right path.
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So glad to hear you are going in bravely. I wish I had, many years ago. As for SAMe, I was willing to give it a try because I dislike taking pharmaceuticals (I'm one of these California people, into natural remedies). In February I set a program for myself, starting out with 800mg of SAMe (I now take only 400) and one-half hour of exercise per day. Exercise can be walking, biking, swimming, anything. The result was that at the end of the day, I'd gotten more done, and slowly I started catching up to where I wanted to be. The SAMe made me dizzy and lightheaded for about a week when I first started taking it (which at least showed it was having an effect!) and a couple of weeks in, I woke up one day in a genuinely good mood. I've had a few deep dark moments since then--we all have those, being human--but the seemingly endless pattern was broken. Of course I can't say if it will work for anyone else, only that it had a relatively quick effect on me, is inexpensive (about 50 cents per day, for 400mg) and clinical trials have found no major side effects. A little upset stomach, and as I said, I was mildly dizzy at first. That's it!
Good luck going forward. I hope your new therapist provides comfort and answers and guidance.
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Dear Juno,
I do understand. And Gjazz is right... you are going forward so bravely!
Maybe everyone doesn't have times of feeling extra sensitive, but Isure do... and I know what you mean.
It's alot less now that I'm not so preoccupied with other folks' actions and reactions.
Sounds like you have had plenty of experience around women who may be... envious( ?) of your qualities? Or they feel threatened in some way?
By the way, I have never understood that sort of "I have the same ____ as you, but...." comment, followed by the look.... like... how dare you have it, too? lol
Who has time for that stuff? Half the time, I don't even notice what someone is wearing. Just really not that observant.
And I don't know, but at times when I've felt very unsure of myself and gone about expecting difficulties with people... well...
do you think maybe you adopt a sort of poker-faced expression? I used to. Still do, at times, with people I don't trust.
Sometimes I've wondered about it.. as though there's a giving off some sort of signals, maybe.
Certain people seem to pick those up in a slanted way, and they're intimidated?
Little do they know that you're just trying to get over your next hurdle and struggling along like everyone else.
Really, I don't know... and some people are going to be miserable and try to treat us miserably no matter what sort of expression and vibes we're giving off, so I'm not suggesting that you greet everyone with a big grin or anything. It's all kinda a mystery to me, too.
I've only recently heard of the SAMe product, but was curious about it, too.
Things get a bit dark for me when I'm not constantly swamped with "to do's" and I'd like to turn that around.
Will do some research on it and may consider giving it a trial, too.
And Juno, you're at a time of great change... in flux, you know? Sometimes being at your "best self" may just mean that all the old defenses are fully functioning... and that is not necessarily the healthiest place to be. It can feel really naked as those mechanisms drop away, but if they didn't... there'd be no room for the new, better stuff to move in. At least that is - ahem - my theory.
((((((Juno))))))
Love,
Carolyn
P.S. Hi Gjazz... and thank you for bringing up the SAMe product. Good to meet you here! Carolyn