Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: tayana on June 18, 2008, 03:32:25 PM
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I just recently returned from a meeting with my T. I have been working very hard on learning to let others be responsible for their own feelings and not to feel guilty or believe that it is my fault for causing others pain. I have to learn to assertively state my own feelings and not cave just to please my partner or anyone else. I often feel like I'm always giving because I don't ever get what I want.
What I see here on the board is a lot of guilt-tripping, finger-pointing and blame placing. It's rather like being on a playground of children who are all pointing fingers and tattling on each other. She hit me. No he hit me, etc.
What I am trying to say is everyone here on the board needs to be responsible for their feelings and learn to state assertively and clearly what they are feeling. As I've stated before, this is a discussion board, not a support group. There will always be people trolling. There will always be a question of identity because that is the nature of an internet forum. For all anyone knows, you could be speaking to some little old man in China.
I see a lot of people who are saying that various posters are treating them just like their N's have treated them in the past. I have read a lot of these posts that are supposedly inflammatory, and I don't see the abuse in the threads. I see criticism, certainly, but part of growing is learning to accept criticism. For the most part, I think the individuals on this board want to hear about progress, not that so and so attacked them in a thread.
My T tells me I have made enormous progress in the past few months. I am working very hard on learning healthy boundaries and learning to assert myself and that my thoughts, feelings and opinions matter. Maybe that's a lesson others here need to learn. Instead of dwelling on what has happened in the past, look ahead and work on improving yourself. Dwelling on the past and the hurt will solve nothing. Projecting those feelings onto strangers in cyber-land solves nothing. Take an honest look at your feelings, accept that they are valid, deal with the pain, and learn to grow. That's what the board is here to help with. This board is not a substitute for therapy. If a therapist is what you are looking for, find one. If you can't afford one, check with colleges or look for one who charges on a sliding scale. There are always ways if you really want help. What I notice though is that some people here don't seem to want help, they come here with a "look at me, pity me, my life was horrible" attitude. They want sympathy. They want someone to agree that their life was worse than anyone else's. What these people don't realize is that they need to hear, "Yes, your life was bad in the past, but it doesn't have to be that way anymore. You can change it." I had a lousy childhood. Even my partner's parents, whom I"ve met one time know that. They've commented on what kind of parents I must have had, but that doesn't change the fact that I"ve taken massive steps to secure my own happiness.
I had help from people on this board, certainly. I still post from time to time because I value the opinions of various people on this board. I'm not going to storm off in a huff or request NC with anyone here, because I can simply ignore comments and threads. I have only been offended one time in all the time I've posted on this board. The rest of the time I agree to disagree. I take the useful advice and let the rest go. I don't worry about bullying. This board is not my life. I enjoy interacting with people here, but I don't really care for the constant conflict and flaming that goes on.
Perhaps if there needs to be a free for all board where people can go and duke it out so the rest of us can go on with the process of discussing how to heal and grow.
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Dear Tayana,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience here.
I appreciate your post very much and will continue to think on it... especially the aspect of looking forward, with eyes on healing and growth.
Been looking back far too much. Thanks again.
Sincerely,
Carolyn
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Tayana,
I echo many of the thoughts and feelings you expressed.
A special board for conflict, however, is a pipe dream as most people can't even recognize that they ARE angry when they are. Picture it : "I am NOT angry." "I am NOT yelling." Hah.
I was momentarily thrown away from your post by Bean's response - obviously she feels you are referring to her own conflicts and thus, posted in a defensive way - trying to use "humor" (lol) to deflect. Therefore, at first I didn't post my response in validation and support of you. For that, I apologize.
Bean, I empathize with your pain and recognize that you feel defensive. I don't think this post is specifically about you, though.
Dandylife
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S/times if people have outgrown the board, they can start blogs, Tayana. Ami
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Hi Tayana,
I congratulate you on all the progress you've made! That is wonderful to hear and I am very happy for you!!
A couple of thoughts:
Not everyone progresses at the same rate eh?
Also:
What I notice though is that some people here don't seem to want help, they come here with a "look at me, pity me, my life was horrible" attitude. They want sympathy. They want someone to agree that their life was worse than anyone else's.
I want to ask: Who?
And how do you know what they want?
I guess I have a problem when someone assumes to know what's in my head and when I read this comment of yours........away I go projecccccccccting!! Ping!!!
I understand....this is how it appears to you but truly......do you really know what anyone wants or needs?
Sincerely,
Sela
PS: I think it's amazing how you are going forward with your life and how far you have come away from your mother's........grasp (is that the right word??). Isn't it wonderful to be free???? :D Way to go Tayana!!
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I want to ask: Who?
And how do you know what they want?
I guess I have a problem when someone assumes to know what's in my head and when I read this comment of yours........away I go projecccccccccting!! Ping!!!
My sentiments, exactly, Sela. Ami
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Dandy
I did not read anything negative in Bean's comment. *I* don't see it. Ami
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My T tells me I have made enormous progress in the past few months. I am working very hard on learning healthy boundaries and learning to assert myself and that my thoughts, feelings and opinions matter. Maybe that's a lesson others here need to learn. Instead of dwelling on what has happened in the past, look ahead and work on improving yourself.
Dear Tayana,
Thank you for so bravely baring your soul and thoughts with us. I appreciate your thread.
It takes courage to heal and you are no doubt a courageous person.
As for your progress - way to go - bravo! ((Tayana)) We all deserve a good pat on the back, especially when we came from such painful childhoods of invalidation.
Maybe that's a lesson others here need to learn.
There seems to me to be a sense of judgement from you here that others, (generally speaking on your part) need to learn boundaries? Well, I am sure that we can all agree that at some point in our healing journey we will, if not already, be addressing this issue, just have you have.
Instead of dwelling on what has happened in the past, look ahead and work on improving yourself.
For me, I have needed to look back in order to move forward. Sometimes the painful memories of my childhood, the ones I buried because there was no way that I could have faced the pain and terror of what was happening to me at the time, come to the surface now. This is when, as I look at my past, that I can see a new future. The tears that I never got to cry are able to fall out - there is a wonderful sense of peace that comes from being able to cry those old tears.
"The soul would have no rainbow had the eyes no tears." Cheney, John Vance
"What soap is for the body, tears are for the soul." Proverb, Jewish
My favorite:
"Only eyes washed by tears can see clearly." Mann, Louis L.
Perhaps what you are trying to say is that we need a healthy balance? Most of us, generally speaking, I can only assume and I may even be wrong, would too share that view.
Thanks again - there was much that you wrote that spoke well to me.
Peace and blessings to you,
Lise
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((((((((((Lise)))))))))))) Blessings, Ami
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Bean wrote, "tayana,
We are always done except when we're not done, eh?
lol
bean"
Bean, please do clarify, if you wish, but this immediately comes across to me as a wish to shut down tayana as in "leave it alone already" followed by an "lol" which, seems to me to be the equivalent of that smiley face you so abhor.
Dandylife
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It seems to me that Bean was saying that we are always growing. No one has arrived. Ami
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Tay.... you've been turning board sage.... while we're weren't looking.
And.... I agree with your post.
Light
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Ahh!
Well, that does certainly explain it!
I'm sorry my perception of your comment was so negative. I've never been so thrilled to be wrong. Thanks!
Dandylife
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I am not going to play the attacking game. I am not going to name names because my comments were meant in a general sense and not at all directed at anyone. This post is based on my perceptions of the board at this time, and is not meant to be a judgment, a diagnosis, or a accusation. This is my perception alone, and I see I have been unreasonably attacked based on others perceptions of what I wrote. Is this not the same thing I have just been accused of? I had no one person in mind when I wrote this post. It is merely my thoughts and feelings about the community.
Gabben Said:
There seems to me to be a sense of judgement from you here that others, (generally speaking on your part) need to learn boundaries? Well, I am sure that we can all agree that at some point in our healing journey we will, if not already, be addressing this issue, just have you have.
I struggle with boundaries, Gabben. I think a lot of people here do. As victims of N's our boundaries have been violated and it's a hard struggle to learn healthy ones. As I said, I am not judging.
For me, I have needed to look back in order to move forward. Sometimes the painful memories of my childhood, the ones I buried because there was no way that I could have faced the pain and terror of what was happening to me at the time, come to the surface now. This is when, as I look at my past, that I can see a new future. The tears that I never got to cry are able to fall out - there is a wonderful sense of peace that comes from being able to cry those old tears.
I did a lot of looking back too. I had to look back to see that so many of the things that I thought were nice and sweet, were really malicious. I had to look back and accept the pain, but there was a point when I had to start looking forward, or I would just dance the same dance over and over. There is a sense of peace that comes with that. I'm glad you've started to find it.
Ami Said:
S/times if people have outgrown the board, they can start blogs, Tayana. Ami
Ami, I have a blog, thank you. You can read it at: http://tayana.blogspot.com (http://tayana.blogspot.com) I'll admit I haven't had much time to update it lately, but it's there. I've kept it up for six years now, and you can read a lot about my struggles there.
Sela, again, this post was not meant to point fingers at anyone. I am not going to name names because I was not addressing any one person in particular. I don't presume to know what's in anyone's head.
I hope that others will start looking forward and think about healing.
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I did know about your blog. It must be a great means of self expression for you. Ami
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I hope that others will start looking forward and think about healing.
:shock: :?
PS: ON edit:
Tayana it's my problem. I have a problem with statements like this. Do you mean that "others" here are inferior because they are not looking forward and not thinking about healing? Again, how do you know who is looking at what or thinking what? It feels like a putdown to "others' when I read this. I bet you don't mean that but that's how it comes across to me and possibly it comes across to "others" that way too?
I hope we will all move forward and heal (some of us might be ahead or behind of "others" in that department but let those in the lead not forget what it feels like to be lagging waaaay behind eh?)
This is not meant as an attack on you, Tayana, but rather an expression of how the wording could hurt "others" and gets my old goat going the wrong way ( :oops: I know, I need to tame that old goat some too!).
Sela
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((((((((((Bean))))))))))
The main thing is we are honest and humble. You are both, Bean, and both seem necessary for true, real and lasting healing(IMO) Ami
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Bean, your thoughts are perfectly welcome. I'm not ignoring you. I am an infrequent poster. The reason I made this post, and I know some people disagree with the language I used, is that I notice less and less of truly constructive conversation on the board and a whole lot of drama. Right now the majority of the threads on the first page are related to the recent board conflict, and not at all about healing and growing, or even learning to deal with emotions related to past abuse.
It's not an easy journey, Bean. Healing hurts more than the original hurt did. I still have a very hard time trusting anyone. I still make plans and work out scenarios because I don't entirely trust others to do what they say, after all, no one ever has before. It's something I have to work on. I also have to work on not living for other people. It's not easy. It's hard. There's days when all I can do is cry because it's so hard. I blame myself for everything from the dog farting incessantly to my son being a jerk. I have a hard time accepting that people around me are responsible for their feelings, and I am not. That is why I still go to therapy every couple of weeks.
Healing is a lifelong journey. It won't happen overnight. It's not going to suddenly come to us. The first step is wanting to heal. The second is taking the steps to make it so. The third, for me at least, is accepting that I am not responsible for everyone and I don't have to make anyone but myself happy. The fourth is surrounding oneself with positive things. If that means cutting out the N parent, leaving the abusive N spouse, then that's what needs to happen. Being surrounded by negativity only breeds more negativity. Sometimes I think we get trapped in the cycle of going through the motions. We get tired and run down, and we go through the motions of healing, only deep down, we aren't really healing. We just pretend we are, and then when we stumble, it seems like the world comes crashing down. I'm guilty of it. I'll admit that I've intentionally made things sound better than they really are to my T or my Pdoc. At one of my recent T sessions, I had to make an emergency appt. with the Pdoc because I had backslid into severe depression. I was overwhelmed by everything going on, and I wasn't willing or able to let someone take up some of that slack for me.
All you can do is keep going forward, even when its hard and it seems like you're getting nowhere. You'll get there eventually.
Sela, I chose gender neutral wording. I'm sorry you were offended by it. It was not meant to point to any one person in general.
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The letter has been sent. We'll see what happens.
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Hi Tayana,
I believe you when you say you did not mean to point at anyone person.
Thanks for reading and taking the time to respond.
Sela