Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Dr. Richard Grossman on July 07, 2008, 06:11:02 PM
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Hi everyone,
Here's an interesting article on depression and its relationship to neurogenesis (brain cell growth) in the Boston Globe:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/07/06/head_fake/
Best,
Richard
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Dr. G.
Thank the lord for Prozac, that it brought so much to the fore. And here I thought I needed to mainline serotonin!
Can't take Prozac in its present form, but who knows, maybe in a year that magic part of the formula that grows those neurons back may come in a form I can use.
I really liked this article.
tt
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Well, this article came just in time for me! Very interesting. Makes a lot of sense.
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VERY interesting. A healing medication? Wow.
My daughter was on Prozac for a few years as a teenager. I will be interested to see what effects this may have on her brain. I hope positive.
Thank you for the heads up!
Dandylife
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dandylife,
Yeah, longterm outcome. Good point!
tt
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Hiya Dr. G,
Thanks for posting this one.
I find the idea that my brain cells are shrinking and dying every time I get really depressed......a little scary. :shock: :shock:
I'm glad there are ways to regenerate those cells but I think having read this might be incentive for me to be more ......
proactive.
I do need more excercise and best get a more regular routine happening..........fatten up those brain cells!!
if you want the drug to work for you, then you have to work for the drug.
I'd rather avoid the drugs if possible (but I'm glad they are available and that they work) and come to think of it.......walking the dog a number of times daily....seemed to help in the past. Maybe stuff like the increased blood circulation and brain stimulation enhanced by those kinds of activities are a kind of drug too? Another theory.
Thanks again,
Sela
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If Prozac actually helps to regenerate brain cells over the long term, then why in so many people does the effect seem to "poop out" after a few months or years? It happened to me and many others I have known. My brother has been taking the stuff for 15 years and he acts like a zoned out addict. If Prozac is regenerating brain cells, I would think patients would keep getting better over time, and it sure isn't what I have seen in people who have been on a long term course of anti-depressants.
I'm glad they are looking more deeply into causes and effects, but I'm suspicious of the easy pro-drug conclusions.
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Silver lining......I am with you on being skeptical of the psyche drug phenomena. The drug companies are selling drugs, thats how they survive and I do not believe what they have to say. Once again people rely on being treated honestly by often times very dishonest people ususally people who are unaware of their dishonest to themselves. Even if their advice seems genuine I don't believe it. I know too many examples in my personal life where these drugs just shut feelings down and make it harder or impossible to heal. IMO there may be times when a person is so distraught that for awhile it could be helpful until the intensity can be managed. I go by my own personal experience and what I see in other "drug users". I don't believe in these reports no matter how "scientific". It's about the abuse of power to keep their own traumas at bay it is not about discovering real ways to promote personal well being and the freedom that comes from this.......James
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I read up on antidepressants a few years ago, having been issued with a prescription (which I binned) - as soon as I opened up to my doctor, for the first time, about my married life. (DV)
The doctor just issues antidepressants like aspirin for a headache.
Anyhow, as with anything in life, I prefer a wide perspective, and look at each side.
This is just one of many good sites I have found ... http://www.womentowomen.com/depressionanxietyandmood/antidepressants.aspx (http://www.womentowomen.com/depressionanxietyandmood/antidepressants.aspx)
Love, Leah
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BOOK: http://www.amazon.com/America-Fooled-Antidepressants-Antipsychotics-Deceived/dp/0977307506 (http://www.amazon.com/America-Fooled-Antidepressants-Antipsychotics-Deceived/dp/0977307506)
Review:
This book is an absolute must-read for anyone who has ever taken antidepressants or antipsychotics or for those who would consider doing so. Dr. Scott presents astonishing, well-researched information regarding mind drugs in this clearly written, easily understood book.
The author explains how Americans (both physicians and patients) have been fooled into believing the chemical imbalance theory. The book does a superb job describing the pharmaceutical companies' tactics for getting their drugs approved by the FDA and marketing them to physicians and the public....quite shocking!
Dr. Scott also does an excellent job at the end of his book informing the reader how to avoid and overcome depression without the use of psychiatric drugs. As a nurse, I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND this book to be read by all health care providers and those studying in the medical field.
In UK too. Leah x
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Leah...I haven't read the book, but I like the title. I am curious enough to read it and to examine what this person believes to be a good therapy. I have my own method and it works, maybe they will parallel. Perhaps the biggest question is why people do this. I think I know why....... it's something I discovered in my journey. It really is about people so fearful that they will do anything in order to not feel their childhood reality......for them to maintain power in order to not feel whats inside is everything. It's just too terrifying and ends with seeking power over these feelings, in sometimes very subtle ways, even over others...James
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Makes complete sense. One chooses to have a good or bad day the moment they open their eyes in the morning....it carries over to other aspects of life and being. I guess we just need to remember our own power that we have coming from within ourselves and believe in it, and ourselves. That's pretty hard to do sometimes, if not impossible to keep, at times. Nogadge
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This was a really fascinating article and opens up all sorts of possibilities and questions --
I'm with the drug-company-ploy gang. They own us. I work in the medical publishing industry and live in the pharmaceutical capital of the country (all the big drug co's are here). You should hear what my friend who works in one of them has to say. The big money-makers are anti-depressants and cholesterol medications ... and cholesterol hasn't even truly been linked to mortality, I believe. I once heard one of the very MDs who worked on one of the medicines sort of poo-poo the whole concept.
I think like many other things, depression is probably "overdetermined" -- that is, it has a variety of causes, and one person may need two or three solutions. The main question I have for this article is, if depression is purely neurological in nature, then why (or how?) does getting pent-up anger out relieve depression? There must be an emotional validity (source) to it.
Also, I think people forget the appropriate use of anti-depressants. They're there to help someone get up and on their feet and function when otherwise they cannot. They aren't really supposed to be used to avoid problems and issues, etc. But -- here I go!!! -- it's an INSURANCE COMPANY solution. Drugs are so much cheaper than psychotherapy. So push, push, push them. It's all an intense (economic) partnership between the drug companies and the insurance companies and probably assorted other parties.
Ok, I'll get off my soap box now...but I get so ....errr...angry! when people think there's a simple solution to all this. I say this as one who's on an antidepressant (and just upped the dose) -- but I would never substitute for confronting the emotional work I need to do.
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What makes me crazy is that w/o the Rx, I have chest pain and SOB.
Same old panic disorder symptoms, but I also have a large fear of heart disease.
I don't know how to stop these symptoms. I need much more exercise but they often start when I exercise so I don't know how to stop the cycle.
Maybe they ARE cardiac.
grrr
Hops
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Hops, have you had them checked out? If not, please do. It's important.
For years my back pain was linked to pent-up anger (it would settle in the small of my back). One wintry day I went into my therapist and tried like the dickens to find the anger and get it out -- only to discover in the next few days that I had sprained my back. It was a valuable lesson to always get things checked out, even when you think they may be caused by emotional sources. My therapist has said the same thing.
In any case, I hope you feel better. Please take care of yourself. We all love you so here.
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This was a really fascinating article and opens up all sorts of possibilities and questions --
I'm with the drug-company-ploy gang. They own us. I work in the medical publishing industry and live in the pharmaceutical capital of the country (all the big drug co's are here). You should hear what my friend who works in one of them has to say. The big money-makers are anti-depressants and cholesterol medications ... and cholesterol hasn't even truly been linked to mortality, I believe. I once heard one of the very MDs who worked on one of the medicines sort of poo-poo the whole concept.
I think like many other things, depression is probably "overdetermined" -- that is, it has a variety of causes, and one person may need two or three solutions. The main question I have for this article is, if depression is purely neurological in nature, then why (or how?) does getting pent-up anger out relieve depression? There must be an emotional validity (source) to it.
Also, I think people forget the appropriate use of anti-depressants. They're there to help someone get up and on their feet and function when otherwise they cannot. They aren't really supposed to be used to avoid problems and issues, etc. But -- here I go!!! -- it's an INSURANCE COMPANY solution. Drugs are so much cheaper than psychotherapy. So push, push, push them. It's all an intense (economic) partnership between the drug companies and the insurance companies and probably assorted other parties.
Ok, I'll get off my soap box now...but I get so ....errr...angry! when people think there's a simple solution to all this. I say this as one who's on an antidepressant (and just upped the dose) -- but I would never substitute for confronting the emotional work I need to do.
Hi LilyCat,
I am with you 100% - and with regard to 'cholesterol medications' I am aware of the "Statins" shambles.
Leah x
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Right on, Leah.
With regard to statins, though -- they have many other powerful positive effects, particularly on coronary disease (non-cholesterol) and I think some other stuff, and I believe longevity. So if your doctor has prescribed on for you, take it. I take Lipitor not so much on the basis of cholesterol (although that's why he has me on it -- wants mine below 100, LDL at 70; it is) but for these other reasons. They really are a powerful reason to take them.
One of the questions this article raised for me is -- alcohol and marijuana destroy brain cells. Perhaps that's why they are also depressants? (What about watching TV, then? Does it destroy brain cells?)
The interesting thing is that at least alcohol has the opposite effect on people with central brain damage (learned this from my brother). It's actually a stimulant for them. They sometimes gave it to my brother to perk him up.
Also, did you know that they don't exactly know how alcohol affects the brain and does what it does? (The last I heard.) I was shocked when I heard this -- it just seems like such a given.
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Oh, no, LilyCat
I have not been prescribed with 'statins' ........ I was merely mentioning it in reference to your comment re: 'cholesterol medications'
I am fortunate, and grateful, to have a low cholesterol count, apparently, according to annual check-ups.
Leah x
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I agree, Lillycat
with the fact that Alcohol has a huge devastating effect on the brain. And it saddens me to see young people addicted to 'binge drinking' - it is globally endemic.
Young people are being sold a lie - drinking and drugs - and goodness knows what lies ahead etc.
I have friends in the medical profession and they openly express concern for our current young generation's mental health.
Leah x
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Right on, Leah.
Also, did you know that they don't exactly know how alcohol affects the brain and does what it does? (The last I heard.) I was shocked when I heard this -- it just seems like such a given.
Hi Lily. You have made a lot of excellent points. They don't yet have any way to directly observe the effects of chemicals on the brain, so their explanations are just conjecture or theory. Maybe Prozac gently stimulates brain cells into regrowth, or maybe it toxically overstimulates cells into hyperactivity causing eventual damage. It takes about 2 minutes of searching on the internet to find articles proposing both theories. Since so much is at stake a conservative approach seems worthwhile.
My own experience and what I have observed in others suggests antidepressants have an often temporary stimulating effect. I thought Prozac was a miracle, for about 6 months before it started to fizzle. Then I got on the treadmill of constant chemical adjustment. First raise the dose, then add other types of pills to the mix, then subtract some. Each time it seemed to have some effect, for awhile. Finally on my own I bagged the whole program. Then a weird thing happened. After a couple of months I again felt "cured". Getting off Prozac did just as much good as starting it in the first place. The change in chemical mix seemed to be stimulating no matter which way I went. I doubt I am unique in this since everybody I have run into who takes antidepressants seems to be on the constant adjustment routine.
Maybe for many people the drugs are a necessary jolt to a better level of functioning, but it seems other work is necessary for a more permanent cure.
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Leah, no worries. Just wanted to be sure...
SL -- yes to everything you said. I totally agree and understand. Similar experience with Paxil. Was on and off a few times during a several-year period. It never worked as well as the first time I was on it. My MD said it wouldn't. Today I don't think it would do a thing for me. I got a nice "surge," though, as I came off it. Go figure!!
Similar experience with Effexor, which for many people is impossible to get off of. Didn't work as well the second time -- and I started eating like fiend.
Wellbutrin and me, though, we're getting along just fine. It just helps me function better at work. And the weight loss is very nice!!
The literature -- even ads pharma co's place with us -- all talk about the "lack of efficacy" -- how they stop working after sometimes a short while. Absolutely.