Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on November 09, 2008, 11:36:50 PM
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Hi all.
This is sparked by Sunblue's post. I wanted to say some stuff that's new to me this year. And maybe someone else will, too. Many people are filled with cheer during this holiday season. For years, I have been filled with gradually increasing sadness, dread, anxiety, depression.
It's early. It's only early November. AND THIS YEAR I WILL NOT GO THERE.
I've figured out what I want. And I've also figured out that the only way to get it is to MAKE MY OWN experience, instead of passively riding on the huge wave of holidrama around me.
What I want is to sit back and let the minister and his wife do anything they like with decorations downstairs...they're into it. La la that's fine. I like them and will be happy to admire. But I'm not doing it. Secondly, I do like the good cheer on the streets, simply because drivers are nicer. But except for the grocery store, unless I'm working in another store on Saturdays, I WILL NOT BE SHOPPING.
I'm sending my brother's family very small gift certificates to www.kiva.org. I did that last year and realized all at once that this is the end of my stress over Christmas. I'll do that gift from now on, for all of them. $10 each, there are 5 of them, and I'm done. I'll do what's required at work, and that's that.
What I WILL enjoy is the sacred music, the thoughts/hope about peace on earth. I am not Christian, so although the story is pleasant, I'm not going to allow religious sentiment to sweep me away either. If I can't find anything non-Christmas on the radio, I'll play tapes of music I like.
And I'll spend more time in nature. WHEN I WALK IN THE BEAUTIFUL WOODS, THERE ARE NO SIGNS ON TREES SAYING "DECEMBER", "CALENDAR", "OH GOD LOOK AT THE DATE", etc. There are just trees, beautiful bark, a glimpse of a cardinal, the sharp cold scent of pine, the crunch of ice or snow under my boots, the thin winter sun. All beautiful, and all completely unflustured by human frenzy.
I am just not getting sucked into the frenzy, period. I am keeping my peace. I'll have nonholiday DVDs, nonholiday music, and I have some nonholiday friends, too.
Anyway, Sunblue...I hope you'll find some detachment from the tyranny of Norman Rockwell's Christmas, and remember you are not the only person who's saddened by what's missing. Eventually, you can get determined.
I think the only way you will ever get away from your sadness is when you get determined to move TOWARD happiness.
love to you,
Hops
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Hops,
Just a quick note as I have little time at present. I gave up on the "holiday" stuff some time ago and it really is pleasant. I also had to figure out what it all meant for me and to be honest the crazy shopping and materialism just turned me off so I now buy very little, decorate very little but share some good walks, easy time with friends/family. By the way, where I live the whole place shuts down for about a week!
hugs,
axa
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Hops,
Like axa, I also gave up the holiday stuff a few years back. I enjoy the time off with the kids. We get them presents that are nice for them and the family. We used to go on a trip during the season, but won't this year due to finances. We will decorate a bit together. I will not buy a lot of gifts as it is financially not possible for us.
Can you believe that as a kid I hated Christmas? My parents liked to torture us with hints and if we weren't glassy eyed with gratitude, they were unhappy (always). If we played with one thing, it meant we didn't like the other. Even now, I dread the request, "What do you want for Christmas," from them. My NM will ask and then complain it is too expensive, or where will she find it, etc. And they always spend such a ridiculous amount of money. I have asked them not to - just to do something little for us, but it always ends up that way. And NM looks at what we buy for her, maybe likes it for an hour and then throws it in a drawer.
So I have detached. To me it is just some time together (and hopefully with my husband this year as we don't know when he will be back from Afghnistan for sure or if he will leave again).
((((((((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))))))
Love,
Beth
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I think the only way you will ever get away from your sadness is when you get determined to move TOWARD happiness.
Wow Hops,
That is excellent, love it. Deserves to be on a card, a tee shirt & my bathroom mirror so I can read it everyday. This is my new motto.
xoxo,
ann
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Only way to go, Hops... more power - and PEACE - to ya, in this season of crazy-busy, guilt-laden, unrealistic expectations & mass-marketed "experience". It's no longer sane.
I'll be looking for my own version of the holiday - similar to yours. I'm simplifying gift-giving a lot, too. The days (or nights) of marathon gift-wrapping and obscene displays of massive piles of boxes under my non-conformist christmas tree (the past few years, it's a palm tree - beach theme, ya know??) and table-groaning cholesterol laden tables....
... I'm passing on to people younger & more ambitious than me, with the understanding that none of it is necessary. I don't like the crowds, the traffic, the rush-rush, the worry that someone will/won't like what I thought they would...
... naw.
I'm "tuning in, turning on (lights - led; solar when possible), and dropping out" of Christmas, as practiced in western civilization.
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I kind of like the holidays. They make me sad in some respects, because I tend to think of all the might-have-beens. But I've long had a pass on the shopping aspect because my family does not exchange gifts (they do give them to children, but adults, not so much). I like the music and the food and people generally being decent to each other. Last year, the day before Thanksgiving we learned a child in the family had cancer. His twin brother was already terminally ill, and to have the healthy one diagnosed, and be told that basically, he'd have to go into an experimental treatment program for there to be any hope at all--it was devastating. This year he has completed chemo and radiation and his only task is to gain some weight. So I guess in the end, I'm trying (not always succeeding) to think less about what I don't have and put one foot in front of the other and remember that however hard things have seemed at times, other people have had it much harder. And be grateful.
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I remember having this conversation on the board.....
well....
something similar....
last holiday season.
For us, this year's holiday will be about celebrating our oldest family traditions with the children..... that's it.
I just can't spend time dreading the holidays this year.
Simple pleasures in simple holiday rituals.... Grandma's cooky, candied apple and carmel popcorn recipes, featured heavily.
A familiar turkey, just like the ones Grandma used to stuff, with familar casseroles..... squash and yam.... and the assorted pies. Fewer in fact, than usual. Maybe just 2 or 3, made with more care? We'll see.
Splitting tons of firewood, then splitting some more.
Maybe having one bonfire to roast marshmallows and drink coco by.
Wood gathering walks through the woods, with the children, can become a new ritual.
Lighter
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We identify our selves with what is going on out of our selves. And if we do not have a nice group around we do not feel successful during the "Holidays".
have anybody read the power of now?
No craving for anything. For nothing. No desire. No passion. Passion is poisoning.
Including the "holidays".
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My son is threatening me with not spending Thanks Giving with me! He is not used for me to have somebody in my life.
:? :(
He has been the king of my life for 23 years.
Now what?
No holidays I will become the grinch who did not like christmas!!!!
:evil:
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))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))CB((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
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Hello all:
Been reading all your posts with interest and empathy....I'm dreading this holiday.....As I've noted, my "healthy" brother is hosting a Thanksgiving dinner, not on Thanksgiving, but tomorrow, for his own reasons.....It means, of course, I'll be alone on Thanksgiving. Normally, I give in easily....and even though I know I'll probably give in and just go to the dinner because frankly it's just easier than dealing with all the drama that would ensue if I didn't....I know I will not enjoy it....For me, it brings back the feelings that nothing I say or do or want or need has ever mattered, or will ever matter. I just don't count. Basically, it doesn't matter if I'm there or not. So, it's not really about this holiday, it's about how I'm treated all throughout the year.
I've been evaluating things and can't help wonder why it is that I have never mattered to anyone.....why no one has ever valued me enough to make the simplest of compromises or sacrifices....Because what I do know, is if I stood my ground and refused to go along, they would just alll very easily just turn the other way. Their way or the highway.
I don't expect the Hallmark version of holidays....but I guess I always hoped for a version where at least you could spend a little time with those you love and who exhibit behavior that makes you think it's returned. Where all the conversation is not about them. Where occasionally someone says in a sincere way, "So, how are you? How are you feeling?"
But I guess when you're raised in N families, that is only wishful thinking. And for me, because I don't get that from anyone, family or not, I think these holidays only serve to emphasize it. I'm struggling these days to find some shred of hope to keep going. Everything is really bad right now. A terribly N and controlling boss who requires me to work insane hours.....a selfish family....a horrible economy that limits opportunities to get out of the bad job...It just seems hope is a rare commodity these days.
I'm trying to stay positive .....and find time to send out resumes to find a new job....I'm also trying hard to accept my reality....which is that I don't have family to count on.....and that I am not cared for by anyone. It's a hard reality....but I think accepting that reality, in the end, is better than to keep hoping for something I'll never have.
I thought to myself...too bad there isn't an "N' support group out there...We could all get together on holidays and create our own family....:)
Anyway, I hope those of you who have your own families, can enjoy the holidays and traditions that go along with it. For now, I'm appreciating this board and the kind people who post here. I am really Thankful for that this Thanksgiving.
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I am ready to replace it with a new reality. I wonder what it will look like!
CB, you're brilliant! Whatever you got than enables you to think this way, could you send some to me? I really need it!!
Sun,
So sorry to hear it's another crappy Thanksgiving (sounds like a Hallmark special? :lol:). Seriously, I feel like many of us have that idealized Hallmark image that few ever experience or live up to. I think of it as media pressure, fairytales & wishful thinking, along the lines of "and they lived happily ever after......" This is why I love what CB said about replacing it with a new reality & wondering what it will look like. Wonderment, not fear, of the unknown. I hear you CB & thank you for that thought.
Sun, you are a very intelligent, articulate & sensitive person & I hope you will return to read this thread & respond. I say this because I have noticed that you seem to post on the board & not return for a while, so when people post back to you, you often don't respond. And, that's fine because you're not required to respond and it's fine if you just want to post your feelings & leave.
But..........I have also noticed that when you post, your conundrums are often the same: Your parents & family don't care about you & your disappointment in your brother. A while back, I posted to you about the possibility that perhaps you are enmeshed with your family (as I was), so even though you feel rejected by them, you can't leave (which happened to me).
So, what I'm saying here is that while I'm glad you post your feelings here, have you thought about what you do to change your circumstances & environment, so that your family isn't the ever present thorn continually causing you pain by pricking you? It's like you have identified your problem (which is very essential), but what steps could you take to find a solution?
I'm doing Thanksgiving tomorrow because people have to scatter to various other Thanksgivings on Thursday and I look forward to my quiet Thursday: I'll relax, read a book, take a walk, enjoy the quiet. How about you? Can you spend Thursday doing things for yourself that you enjoy? Or help at a soup kitchen?
Sun, thank you for listening to my feelings. I hope you come back & post. I always enjoy reading what you have to say.
xoxox,
ann
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Hi Ann:
I wanted to reply and let you know I read your post. I understand your points. I used to post quite often and respond regularly. I am not able to do so as much because when I started a new job back in February, I also started working 100+ hour work weeks, which I alluded to in previous posts. So as much as I would like to, I'm not physically able to get online to either post or respond. Today's post represented a rare opportunity for me to do so...
I also hear you loud and clear about your other point. I should not have used this board to complain or whine. It was selfish and inappropriate of me. I know most others are in much worse situations than I. I had a therapist once who noted the same...I don't see one now....but I still recall his perspective.
Even though I haven't been in a position when I could write as much as I wanted to, that did not diminish my appreciation for the responses received or my empathy for those who shared similar, if not identical situations.
Thanks very much for taking the time to respond. Your points are duly noted.....and I will do my best to make those adjustments.
CB:
I, too, respect your ability to make such enormous changes when it comes to the holiday. It sounds like you are on track to create a differnent kind of holiday for yourself. I hope this holiday provides you at least a little bit of those "hallmark" moments...even if the picture looks completely different. Enjoy!
Sunblue
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Dear Sun,
I should not have used this board to complain or whine. It was selfish and inappropriate of me. I know most others are in much worse situations than I. I had a therapist once who noted the same...I don't see one now....but I still recall his perspective.
NO, NO, NO, NO. I apologize to you for not communicating my message.
This is a place for you to "complain" & "whine", but you do not do either of those things. Your concerns, your feelings are 100% LEGITIMATE & VALID!!!!! You have every right in this world to feel how you feel. Your family does sound very selfish, unloving & ostracizing.
You are neither selfish nor inappropriate. I think you are sensitive, loving, articulate and your foo has shunned you.
Do you think your therapist was unvalidating?
My point was to say to you that "Yes", your FOO sounds unloving & cold to you, but how can you move beyond this? They say that 90% of solving a problem is to identify that the problem exists and you have done that. Now, for the other 10% (not sure it's only 10%, probably more): what can you do to relieve your suffering? I thought that if you could consider the possibility that you may be Enmeshed with your family, then that could be a starting point for you to explore ways to disengage from your FOO, so you won't feel so hurt by them.
Sun, I am sorry I miscommunicated & I also understand that it's hard for you to post. Hope you can come back & we can talk some more.
(((((((((((Sun))))))))))))
xoxo,
ann
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Sun:
This is the perfect place to come whine, bitch, complain, browbeat, cry all you want to. We've all been judged to death in the real world. You might come here to help someone else, you might come seeking help for yourself, or both, but the point is it's a safe place to explore feelings and options and hey, just say what you want to say. Last night I came thisclose to posting a long diatribe on the subject of potatoes. Really, I got so worked up over this whole potato issue for Thanksgiving, the only thing that kept me from unloading was I had too much work to do. I was really, really pissed off about the potatoes. If that's not a whine for the ages I don't know what is! Take care, hang in there and peace over the holidays.
:-)
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Hi gjazz,
You made me laugh outloud about being pissed off about potato's. I thought about last year when I went on a rant and went off and was very pissed about the potato's myself. It went like this.....
LEAVE MY POTATO'S ALONE..YOU HAD NO RIGHT TO TOUCH MY POTATOS...and they all looked at me like I was nuts and we had a good laugh...(later) I was too involved in my stress getting everything done and them mashing MY potato's....They mashed my freaking potato's when I only asked them to boil them... AND WAS really mad (lol)...no one will touch them now.. hehe.
HAPPY HOLIDAY'S.....HAPPY HOLIDAY'S....
I share you being pissed off over potato's...lol.
Love
Deb
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Boy am I happy to be a guest at holidays.
Going to Gennul's sister and BIL's, very brilliant academic folks, also kind and interesting.
Big but somehow cozy house, lots of music, hubby is a competitive cook. (Goody! Practice on me anytime!)
Taking 95 y/o friend...will go see Ma first.
My D is coming home! I won't see her until Friday evening but that's okay.
(She's doing the feast at step-mom's because she paid half her ticket.)
It will be a good wknd.
Gennulman is feeling depressed. Anniversary reaction to being homeless last winter, plus I'm convinced he has SAD. I loaned him my SAD light, haven't needed it myself lately. Really hope it helps him. He'll work through it, I hope.
He came over, brought his sister, and we all ate w/the minister. Here's a Unitarian Universalist joke he told us:
A UU minister came to a new church. One of the major parishoners, head of the board, explained that his tradition was to take the minister fishing every Monday, but did she really want to go? Sure, she said, I'll try that. The board guy is kind of challenging her, like: here's a woman minister, oh brother, let's see how she handles fishing. So off they go the next Monday. They're out on the lake in the boat when she says, Shoot, I left my jacket on the dock. She gets out of the boat, walks across the water to the dock and fetches her jacket, walks back across and climbs back in the boat. They troll around for a few hours but she doesn't catch anything. Later in the week the board guy is gossiping with one of his colleagues and he says, Not only can't she fish, but she can't swim either.
love,
Hops
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Hops:
Sounds like all in all you're gearing up for a lovely holiday. How I envy you being around boats and docks at this time of year. I'm sure it must be lovely. I love the beach but weatherman says snow tomorrow!
Alas, today I caved.....I gave in and attended a non-Thanksgiving Thanksgiving dinner hosted by my "healthy" brother. I caved because I was just too tired emotionally to deal with all the drama that would have ensued if I hadn't. But I should have just not gone. I was feeling really angry and resentful and hurt by it all. I looked around and everyone was perfectly happy.....They all have other plans on the real holiday. I couldn't bring myself to speak much to my brother.....I was just reminded of how nothing I do or want or feel or think ever matters, and it never will. But I KNOW that in my head.....Sometimes it's just a hard reality to swallow when you look around a room and see happy (relatively anyway) families and couples....who care about each other, ask about each other. I guess it's always a reminder that I don't belong anywhere. When I got home, I was just sad.
As for an earlier post on this thread, I did have a therapist who wasn't exactly validating...I would have conversations with him about my need for empathy....but he refused to give it. I think he felt that if he gave it, it was like giving me license to not do anything except wallow in it. What I tried to explain to him was that I was someone who has NEVER received empathy from anyone and was in desperate need for it. But he didn't understand.....
Only good thing about this coming holiday week is that it will be a short work week. Even while I'll have to work everyday, at least I'll be away from my N boss for a couple of days.
I really hesitated posting today......I'm not feeling well and feel myself slipping....I think that sometimes people reach their thresholds....There is only so much that a person can be ignored and disrespected and unloved before it affects them. And while today I just knew I should let the anger and resentment go, that it was not worth hanging onto, for the life of me I just couldn't. Just one time in my life, I wish that what I wanted mattered to my FOO. But of course it doesn't and won't.
This past week I had a conversation with a woman I work with....She lost her parents and has no family to spend the holiday with. But, she has many good friends and they schedule holidays together and vacations and the like. It is clear she doesn't want to open up that circle to anyone else...but still....I think how strange and unjust life can be....some people get their Hallmark holiday and others don't...
Well...at any rate, I already feel bad about posting. I will just leave with the thought that all of you have a peaceful, pleasant holiday, as much as you can given the circumstances which bring us all here. I hope that if you have your own family...husband or children, you can relish in that. Even if we have no one in the non-virtual world who believes we matter, at least here we can acknowledge that we do.
Happy Holidays...
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Sun! Don't fell BAD about posting! POST! That's the point!
One of the hardest days of my life--one I remember in the way I remember few things, which is with a almost physical punch to the gut TO THIS DAY, is Thanksgiving 1987. I'd just moved to NYC. I had no money. I knew not a single person. I had no job. I lived in the Salvation Army and was getting used to having not enough food and no bathroom but at least being warm at night, and free of the hell my life had been until that point. On Thanksgiving I walked the streets and looked into these golden windows and saw people gathered around tables and thought---what's wrong with me? Why am I so effing worthless? Why doesn't anyone give a rat's ass about me?
The only thing I could control was giving a rat's ass about others. I didn't, then. I made the disastrous choice of going to the bar on the corner and was accosted and yelled at by some drunk at the counter. Oddly enough it was better than being alone, but it was pretty ugly. A decade later, after my next move, I helped out at a community kitchen. MUCH better! Is there any way, Sun, that you could spend next Thursday with people WORSE off than you? It's not ideal. I know that. I know it's hard. I'm not suggesting it'll make everything OK. I'm just saying maybe, just maybe, it might be the step that starts the journey of 1.000 miles.
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Hi Sun,
No boats, no docks...that was in the joke, thassall. About her walking on water not being good enough.
I say ditto to everything Gjazz said. (Gjazz, I wish I knew you.) The only way I can really truly haul myself out of self-pity or depression or melancholy is to take an action that helps somebody else.
But it has to be direct, where I am face to face with the homeless person. Not by stacking cans or something. Our church hosts PACEM people for a week (we rotate with other churches). This week we have 40 homeless men livng at our church. We don't preach at them, sing to them or ask them to pray. We just dish up a good hot supper and sit at the tables and eat with them and talk.
When I sat with a double amputee who'd been sleeping under bridges and told me wistfully about his former life as a fisherman, before alcohol ate him, my going home to cope with some transitory loneliness and an Nmother (in a warm bed and warm house with full stomach) didn't seem quite the same as it did before.
You are working such long hours. I hope you can carve out a couple hours a week to volunteer with homeless people, or battered women, an illiterate adult, or a disabled child. It will help YOU. It will HELP you.
Really.
love to you, NOT GUILT,
Hops
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Hi Sun,
Sorry you feel bad about posting, but I'm glad you posted. I always like reading your posts, they are full of insightful observations and articulate descriptions of emotions.
Sun, you're right: some live a life in sunshine, full of Hallmark moments because they have a loving, supportive family, while other have the opposite. If we were not blessed with a loving, supportive family, there's not much we can do about our family because we cannot change other people. The only people we can change are ourselves.
It hurts so much to realize and accept that our families are not supportive or loving. But, for me, the light bulb moment was the realization that their lack of support & love was a reflection of their own problems within themselves and really had nothing to do with me. Perhaps we especially feel our family's lack of support & love because they project their negative thinking upon us and as a result of that projection, we accept their negativities as if they were our own, as if our family's negative thinking is destined to be our own thinking.
But, our family's negative projections do not belong to us and do not define us. We are separate people and we have the right to live our lives as we see fit and think our own thoughts. Once we stop caring about getting our family's approval, we can feel free. I sometimes visualize my family's negative projections and lack of support as a layer of grime which I can wash off in the shower & emerge clean & new.
I too had Thanksgiving yesterday and I am grateful that it's over, plus, I am grateful for all the good things in my life.
Hope you feel better, Sun.
xoxo,
ann
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Likewise, Hops.
Deb: here's the thing about my potatoes. A month or so ago I asked my aunt, who is hosting Thanksgiving, what she would like me to bring. She said, What would you like to bring? I said I'd like to try a potato dish--scalloped potatoes layered with sweet onions, Gruyere, and scalloped yams. So there'd be one, maybe two thin layers of orange yams in the middle. She said, Great! Then of course my mom gets involved. She doesn't want me to make this. I have no idea why but I think it's because she assumes other people would prefer mashed. So she speaks to her sister and later says to me, "Don't make the scalloped potatoes too rich." OK. So, again, a week later, she speaks to her sister, and comes to me with, "Well, it's OK to make that dish but be sure it arrives hot because there won't be time to reheat it once you get there." OK. But I do have an hour drive. I figure it'll still be warm, one blast in the oven. Then she speaks to her sister again, and comes to me and says, "She says no casseroles, just make mashed potatoes." I hit just the major plot turning points here, there were a few other potato references between those, little asides, comments.
Now, I know this isn't a big deal. I know it's potatoes. But for the love of....just leave it alone already! Butt the f*** OUT! SHEESH!
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Potato update!
All along I've been confused over this mashed obsession. For years I was in charge of the mashed potatoes. Everyone loved them. Then, four years ago, due to timing issues I had to make them at my aunt and uncle's house, rather than make them at home and transport finished. Now, many in my family are Skinnies. They are obsessed with weight. Fat is Not Good. Well, they got an eyeful of me loading those Yukon Golds up with butter and cream and salt and parmesan cheese and...the axe fell. My cousin (a male Skinny) was put in charge of boiling up a few Russets, adding nonfat, low-sodium chicken stock and, yes, the water they were boiled in (shudder), and I was relegated to canned cranberry.
Turns out, they miss my potatoes. They couldn't admit it, they didn't want to say so, couldn't admit aloud that they were wrong, but: they want the Fat Back. Ha!
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Hey gjazz,
Oh that sounds so good. I'm think I may just steal your recipe and make the mashed too. The really FATTENING mashed potato's. I don't want NO FAT Thanksgiving I want all the really bad stuff and will really love eating it every mouthfull.
This year it's a problem with Pies..Geesh! who is making what Pies...who can't have double of Pies....Pies to cover every Pie there is....
I'm sitting in the Dentist today and he is speaking about some Major Work..let's do this..lets do that..we can this.. and I'm thinking..what about the Pies...Ya Doc...sure.. ya, ya...and back to my thoughts of pies...then he said do you want to go to sleep?
Ya I'm tired, I must look really tired,..wait..WHAT for WHAT.....to remove your molar...WHAT!! I had no clue what he was talking about I was so involved thinking about Dinner on Thurs...So I gained some Pies, Potato's and lose a tooth...
My friend is having problems with String Beans..lol..her husband wants her to hand pick them one by one...and they are fighting over that and I'm depressed about a tooth.
My D and her friends are having some drama going on and they are coming to my house instead of thier families....one G/M is off the wall and the Grand D can't take another year of it. She is very old and very mean. The other's M told her to just stay at college for the weekend because it's a short weekend and she only lives 45 mins away but they dont' feel like driving.
My S won't be here due to his work schedule and it's his birthday so I'm sad about that.
but Argh...Ya have to really laugh at how this pie, potato, Holiday's unwind..eh!!
Sun,
Hang in there. Sit back and put on some nice show/or book...think about Me possibly hitting someone with a Pie, hysterical over the Potato's and thinking about the last week I will ever have that molar in my mouth....and laugh.
I'll be thinking about you all on Thanksgiving. I can imagine ya all sitting at a table.
Aw I don't think we are really ever alone when you hold things that are important to you in your heart.
You'll all be with me...keep us with you Sun.
Love
Deb
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Deb:
You gotta have fat. I don't use a recipe, just add butter, sour cream, a little whipping cream, salt and pepper to taste. Then if I want, I flavor with one of the following: roasted garlic, horseradish (esp. if serving beef), parmesan cheese, etc. The key is to peel your potatoes, cut into cubes and soak in cold water for, say, twenty minutes before boiling. It's also a good idea to add the ingredients warm. Just put butter, cream etc together in a saucepan and heat a little before adding to the mashed potatoes. Enjoy!
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Luv the potato stories! Makes me soooo wish I had a 50 pound bag of cold hard potatoes I could sling over my shoulder, and one by one, take out those potatoes and hammer them at my Nfamily....Yes, that would be quite a sight to see...Even if my aim wasn't all that great, I figure I'd have a 50/50 change of getting at least one really good shot in.
As it gets closer to the "real" Thanksgiving holiday...I feel myself drooping. My N mom announced with glee she wouldn't be working on Friday, this from a woman who never, ever, ever took a day off to do anything with me as a child...or adult for that matter. The reason she says this with glee is that it allows she and my co-D dad to spend five full days with my Nsister, the "chosen child". Never a single thought about me. My "healthy" brother will have his own family friends. I guess sometimes it's the "glee" part that bothers me. The knowledge that never once did she ever exhibit anything close to "glee" when it comes to me. The knowledge that my oh-so-submissive co-D dad goes along with this and doesn't exhibit one twinge of guilt or regret about not spending the holiday with his other children.
Yes, reality, like the month of November, cold and harsh....But I will be going to Church on Thanksgiving....giving thanks for what one should give thanks for. Trying not to focus on being there alone....Looking forward to being physically away from my N boss for a long weekend....and dreaming of those potatoes that I so wish I could use as a weapon of mass Narcissistic Destruction....
Gobble, gobble.
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Hello All:
Happy Pre-Thanksgiving......I feel the need to vent today...even though I'm telling myself I shouldn't...The holdiays always tend to bring it out in me. I realized one of the reasons these holidays tend to be difficult for me is it is when family outbursts occur. In my N family, these outbursts are rare, but so damaging. My Nmom was in the category of "ignoring" rather than "obsessive." She completely ignored us totally unless we served her purpose....So unless one of us dared to question her, disagree with her (which was rare), then all was well and no outbursts.
Fast forward to my latest outburst. I really kicked myself afterward.....for letting it get to me and for not accepting my reality....but this is what happened. Yesterday, my Nmom and Super-Codependent Dad, gave me directions on household tasks that needed to be taken care of this holiday weekend. They announced they were leaving today (Wednesday) for spend the entire long holiday weekend (through Sunday) with my very Nsis and her boyfriend. I felt the internal kick to the stomach, but did not say anything. However, and this is the part where I kick myself....I got really upset about it and started crying. They had already left the room but I guess heard my crying and returned to confront me....
I won't go into all the grimy details...but I questioned why they couldn't compromise and spend some time with all of their chidren, not just my sister. My Nmom, in the very cold manor that only an N can pull off, informed me she does not feel sorry for me (that I would be alone), because it's my fault. It's my fault, she said, because I refuse to "give in." Her idea of "giving in" would be to accompany them to my Nsis' and do whatever they wanted, however they wanted...and to turn my back on my brother. (A little history: A dozen years again, my Nsis disowned my brother and his family because they didn't select her as Godmother. Since since, she refused to be in the same room with him...and both my brother and I have separated ourselves from her. Naturally, my Nmom sided with her and since then, spends every holiday, weekend, vacation, evening (via phone) with her and her alone. You get the picture.)
It was quite clear that neither my Nmom or CO-D dad can see any other option in life but for everyone to go along with what they want. Compromise is for other people, not them. It is also my Nmom's way of punishing me....My Nmom complained, "Shouldn't I be allowed to have fun? Why should I stay home on the holiday weekdn?" Not surprisingly, the word "I" was populated throughout this entire outburst. Meanwhile, my dad stood meekly by her side and did not utter a single, solitary word. Ultimately, it is my Nmom's way or the highway....Never anything in the middle. I tried, in vain, to make them see what they are doing..but of course it didn't work...It was fruitless. They simply don't care about anyone but themselves as their chosen child Ndaughter. And so they left.
Naturally, it has left me very upset, drained and feeling alone, not to mention stupid for falling into their trap. So, I know I need to find someplace to live...and get out of the situation as best I can....But I also realized how entrenched their Narcississm has affected me. I think, "So where should I go?" Where do I look? Should I relocate where I will have no one? Then again, here I really have no one either? When you grow up in a family where everything is about the Ns, then "you" don't exist. But you have to learn to "exist" in order to make decisions about your life. I feel like I am on this tiny island by myself far, far away from everything and everyone...I am invisible and withering away day by day, with no one to take notice.
I don't want to go through this at Christmas too. So, I think should I take a trip somewhere to get away? Should I look to relocate? In the end, mostly I just feel consumed with hurt and sadness and anger by it all....by the fact that they viciously threw in my face once again that I don't matter.
Alas, just a vent....I apologize...but after the outburst, I looked around me and just realized how alone I was in all of this. I am thinking that perhaps some of you can relate to some of my experience.
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Sun:
You aren't alone, you have the people on this board, and many have been through what you have. I think relocating and rebuilding a life totally separate is a great idea. Not an easy thing to accomplish, true, and it will take time. But it sounds like staying where you are equals treading water. If you move and start again, you might have a few years of making friends, growing into a job, being alone a lot--but you won't have the emotion kicks in the gut from your mother. Any sister who cuts her brother from her life for not being chosen godmother is....what's the word?....let's go with mentally unsound. For one thing, doing so proved his choice right.
Hang in there Sun. Vent all you want.
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Sun,
I'm so glad you're posting more.
This has motion in it.
I'm GLAD you're mad enough to speak so truthfully to yourself:
I think, "So where should I go?" Where do I look? Should I relocate where I will have no one? Then again, here I really have no one either?
I remember feeling a similar desolation when the full reality of Narcissism sank in. I realized my mother would never, ever care enough that I would feel someone "always had my back." My father cared, in his way (quite similar to yours, he never confronted her dramas because it was against his honor code to not unequivocally support his wife...net result, he lost his power to her, and I felt abandoned). From the aged vantage point of 58, I can say now that I'm glad.
Because it forced me to face the actual facts. Narcissism really does render people incapable of love. AND, it's not really their fault. I personally believe that it is genetic predisposition coupled with mysterious psyche-+-environment mixtures we may understand fully in 500 years. But I don't want to give up on happiness because there's no adequate explanation or justification now.
So suffering the full pain of it all, led to to ultimately change my view of reality ("This must CHANGE! This must be DIFFERENT! Because it's not FAIR! And it's not RIGHT!") to: This is what IS. And what I do with my life AND my emotions is up to me.
Totally
up
to
me
For all those reasons I so heartfeltly hope you will relocate. Being a stranger in a strange place will drive you into connections. It will force you to grow, and challenge your view of reality, and think new thoughts about new situations.
First, you become defiantly happy.
Later, you just find you're happy.
And as long as you stay where you are, that is precious life time that you aren't spending moving on.
love
Hops
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Oh Sun,
Please don’t apologize for the vent. Your incubator’s (hope that doesn’t offend – it is how I refer to my NM), reaction to your tears, IMO, was unspeakably cruel.
You deserve that vent – and much better to let it out.
I definitely think you should move out – the sooner the better.
It was very hard for me when I finally took the plunge. But, in retrospect, I wish I'd moved out a lot earlier; it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I felt the same way that you do (and still do at times) about not knowing who I am, where to go, .... I really didn’t have a clue who I was.
Moving out helped start the process to freedom.
I think a trip is a great idea. Not sure where you are, but I hear that Williamsberg (sp?) VA is beautiful at that time of year. Or maybe a SPA trip, where people spoil you? The beach is always one of my favorite options – someplace warm with some sunlight and ocean sounds.
For tomorrow, how about renting some movies, cooking your favorite food (or order from a really good restaurant).
I will be thinking of you.
Take care,
FP
[I said this in my post to Iz, I am sorry if I am not making sense here – haven’t been able to think clearly today. My pet died last night and I am a mess. :cry: I got her just after I moved out of my parent's home. When she was a kitten, she was playing with a pen, and got ink all over a new tapestry bedspread I had just bought – my incubator told me to put her down, just because she got some ink on a bedspread. She was just doing what kitten's do, you know - but I guess that was unacceptable for the incubator. That stain is still there – now it is a reminder of how much comfort she gave me. I understand Sun, I do. I can't wrap my mind around why they do what they do, but I do understand how it feels to be on the other end of it.]
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Thank you everyone for your comments and feedback......It is always comforting when someone understands what you're going through.
Finding Peace:
I'm so sorry about the loss of your pet. I know how attached one can become to a pet....and it is an important loss. Despite the sad news, I couldn't help but smile when I read how your "incubator" criticized the stain on the bedspread. How like an N! My N would do that too! A stain on the rug is the world's worst tragedy! Disgusting!
I'm still not sure what I will do at Christmas.....I feel myself getting into that spot where I can't move....Everything, even the slightest thing, seems to take so much effort. Today was a difficult day. I couldn't keep the "outburst" with my Nmom out of my head...it played over and over and all I can hear are her words, "I don't feel sorry for you....It's your fault for not giving in." And etched in my brain is the image of my child-like father meekly standing by her side, silently enabling her and throwing me under the bus yet again.
So I was on the computer a lot today, watched the parade on TV.....and took down the fall decorations to make way for all the Christmas ones I will put up. I surfed the Web for jobs....but this economy is really affecting that goal.
I did see some interesting info on the Web today about how you deal with dysfunctional families on holiday. The number 1 tip was "Give up hope." It said you need to give up hope that anything will be different....and they were right.
It is kind of scary to know that you are alone....A few years back I lived alone....and those circumstances didn't change...Perhaps that's why I've been so hesitant to move. I know what it will mean....but I am aware of how bad others have it...especially on holidays like this. Today, I tried to count the blessings I do have.S
I think what Hopalong said was SO true. She noted that it's necessary to change your acceptance of reality (from "This must change and this is NOT FAIR or RIGHT" to "this is just what is." But that is soooo hard!!! It's so hard to accept the reality that you're not cared about by anyone, especially your FOO. AND, that the person in the family who is idolized, loved, cherished, is the Nsibling who caused the desctruction of the family.
I've been thinking I might try to find a therapist who understands N...I've been to others in the past, but frankly they did not understand N well....and lacked empathy, something which I really need. So I may try again.....if nothing else, I'll pay them their going rate just to have someone offline to listen to me.....Of course, I realize in doing so, that just gives my Nmom more ammunition...that I am the one who is "sick".....
Have any of you found that therapists can help with this particular issue? Do they recognize N as a distinct, valid illness that causes realworld problems? I'm just curious.
ANyway, hope all of you had a nice Thanksgiving...and a good dinner :)....Yesterday, at work, many people asked where I was going for the holliday....and I'm really not good at lying...so I just explained that my family resides permanently in "Dysfunction Junction"....so I wasn't going anywhere....But how else do you explain our brand of Nfamily issues to those who have never experienced it?
Well, I'm off to check travel costs...maybe a small trip may work out after all?
Happy Turkey Day!
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Hey Sun,
Thank you for understanding about my baby – she was my baby in so many ways.
The incubator’s reaction was appallingly funny – in a dark humor kinda way - it is so typical. Being a child, she couldn’t legally put me down for making a mess – but she certainly did mentally eh?
It is all about giving up hope.
And, for me, it was so painful; that death of hope.
That hope was all I had for so long. It was all I had to hold onto. I clung to that hope, because the reality was too harsh to believe.
Better to believe the dream may come true one day, or so I thought at the time.
But it was a total lie. Two years ago I had the final blow-out with my incubator. At that time, my hope died.
When my hope died, it was so incredibly painful. I was in a fog for quite awhile. But I came out. I still have my moments, but they are getting easier to get through. The past couple of days have been tough.
Dr. G has a very poignant story, here is the link:
http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=148.0 (http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=148.0)
I think it says it all.
I now have the family I choose – 10 or so years it took me, but it is there. So it is a different hope I think – a more realistic hope that you will find a true family.
Although, I have to laugh, I am feeling pretty grossed out by them. Please don’t think badly of me – I can’t help it – I am a bit of a germaphobe.
My niece, who I love to pieces, actually caused my tummy quite a bit of distress tonight – I still shudder when I think of what she did.
They have a dog with extremely bad breath. The dog won’t drink out of a bowl – he has to drink out of a glass, and it must be ice water. Oh lord – she shared a drink of water with the dog. I sat there and watched the dog drink, she would take a drink, the dog drank.
:shock:
::gagging::
Ewwwww. Sorry I am a bit of a germaphobe – ewwww bad doggy breath germs. AND SHE DRANK IT. ACK!
Yuck it is still grossing me out!
::shuddering as I try to roll with the waves of nausea::
Have you ever smelled the breath of a 10-year-old dog who is dentally hygienically challenged?
EWWWWWW.
I had a very hard time eating dinner after I saw that.
Love them, but really, ewwwwwww.
I thought of you often today (NOT in relation to the smelly dog breath – that was just an aside. And I apologize to those out there who have no problem sharing dog saliva – It just isn’t in me.)
You know, for years I had the T-day with my family. I hated it. No matter what, it was always awful. The catering to the GC. The sly subtle put downs to me.
If you had T-day with the incubator and sperm donor – in all honesty what would it really be like? From what you have said, I get a mental picture of them putting a speaker phone on the table so that they can have GC there – and everyone else is ignored.
And I am so very, very sorry for that.
Sun – you deserve so much better - they are really, really broken. It is nothing that you have done, there is nothing wrong with you that made them treat you this way. It is them, and their inability to love more than one.
I have an autistic nephew (GC’s son). When he was first diagnosed, my incubator actually said that she can’t think of the baby – her heart was too sad for the GC. Her words: I am worried for my son and can't think of ***, he doesn't matter - it is my son's pain I am feeling. I can remember thinking at the time - isn't your heart big enough for both? I guess not.
How sick and sad? I still can’t fathom it.
Time to find some better people – eh? Even if they drink stinky doggy breath – at least it is real.
It is your turn Sun - time for you to shine.
Love to you from a still very nauseous Peace,
FP.
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Hey Finding Peace:
Seems like the pooch had a serious case of the doggie breath blues....I can understand why you were grossed out.....Some dogs who have a real problem with doggie breath can knock you on your feet...especially when you're around food. It can make your stomach queasy. Still, I couldn't help but imagining you at the holiday surrounded by your niece and this bad breath pooch, who I'm sure has the sweetest look on his face as he hopes for a nice belly rub....:)....I'm thinking Doggie would do well to get some dental hygiene products in his Christmas stocking from Santa. :)
I know my brother tends to be a germophobe too. He has taught his daughter not to open any door with her hands....I can't say I'm into that....but whatever floats your boat.
I spent yesterday and today putting up Christmas decorations...Still not done...I'm no engineer!...I actually paused before I hauled out the decorations, thinking why should I bust my butt for Nparents who could care less about me??? But then, I told myself that I was really doing it for me. I like the decorations and lights....and while they get to enjoy them and don't appreciate it.....I still didn't want to punish myself anymore than I've already been punished. The weather is nice here for this neck of the country...so neighbors were out hanging lights. There's a friendly little competition between neighbors ...I don't engage in that..I count my blessings if I can get the lights to work. But the neighbors joked with each other and one put up the volume on the Christmas music for everyone to enjoy. There was an uncomfortable moment when my next door neighbor asked about my Thanksgiving and who I spent it with. I really am terrible at lying...so I told them my parents and brother both spent it elsewhere so I just stayed home and relaxed. She gave me a very surprised look and told me that if she knew she would have invited me to her husband's huge thanksgiving clan dinner.
My N parents returned late today.....a day early....but only because a snow storm for tomorrow is expected and they didn't want to drive. For the last several years, they have essentially repaired and redecorated my Nsister's house. My Nsis is perhaps more narcissistic than my Nmom...She imposes on my senior dad to do all kinds of repair jobs even though he shouldn't be doing that. He's constantly painting and fixing and repairing. I found myself today helping carry very heavy doors from their car to the basement. I thought, "How crazy is this? I'm helping them with a project they're doing for my Nsis, the one they chose to spend this holiday, and every holiday with...while I spent the holiday alone putting up Xmas decorations at their house?" I haven't said more than 5 words to them...They disgust me.
It's really hard to realize that you are all alone.....That days go by and not a single person calls you or emails you and wonders what you are doing......I'm wondering what I can do to not play the "pretend" game at Christmas.....it gets harder and harder. Now I realize that my so-called "healthy" brother adopted a "limited contact" relationship with my parents. He rarely sees them, but checks in with my Nmom and dad about once a week. Usually, my mom refuses to talk to him or claims she has no time....and i can see it's just an item on his weekly "to do" list that he checks off. He has clearly added me to that category even though i have done nothing to him. In fact, I have always been there for him, especially his daughter. I was quite close to my niece, taking her on trips and activities, helping her with homework, driving to and fro...but now that she is big enough not to need a babysitter, I literally haven't heard from them.
So when you wrote about your niece, I figured that you still have either your brother or sister (parent of your niece) in your life. I'm wondering if you've ever noticed N characteristics in your siblings? Do they reach out to you...or do you find yourself always initiating it? Looking back on my life, I have to acknowledge that each and every relationship has been a one-way street....me always reaching out, trying, doing for others, caring about them.....but it never came back to me.
What's really bad about these "incubator" outbursts...is that there comes a point when there's no turning back. I read an interesting article in a magazine about how to deal with dysfunctional family at the holidays...it said you should try for reconciliation or resolution but that "giving in" was passivitiy and that wasn't a good thing. But isn't that the whole issue with Ns? Unless you are passive and "give in", they punish you be refusing to have anything to do with you. Unless you are a helpless, enabling co-dependent (as is my dad) and do whatever they want, there's nothing for you. They punish you.
I'd like to think that there is hope that I will not leave this earth before knowing what it feels like to have someone care about me. But I really don't hold up much hope at this time. People don't seem to want to widen their circle to let anyone else in.....and family does not exist. It's hard not to think the problem is me....
Anyway, just a little rant. I hope you had some leftovers...and maybe slipped a little goody under the table to that pooch. I know he doesn't smell like roses, but I'm sure he has other characteristics that make up for it :))...
Sunblue
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Hey Sun,
I have been thinking about you and you were in my thoughts on TDay while I was at the dinner table. Don't give up Hope..There are people who care about you. I am one. Although I am not in 3d I do care and do think about you.
You don't have to pretend anything. I would tell the neighbors well Thank you...I would like to have coffee with ya all sometime though and maybe I could stop over around Xmas time. Would be nice to spend some time with ya all.
Start grabbing a book if ya like to read and go to a diner have some coffee, soda, tea and bring your book. Eventually people will get to know you, say Hey, and conversation maybe there will be some friendships started. God I'm a talker and if you were in my diner I be gabbing away and a big HELLO... I can't imagine that I am the only one who likes to Gab and will talk to pretty much Everyone. Get out There..put yourself in a place.....and direct your life...you are the director!
I say this because you had asked about T's. Mine was very good and I do believe he was very good with dealing with N issues and Me (codependent).
I went with ex from week to week and the only thing that changed was the Week and maybe some new things added I found out.
He once said to my Ex...Deb is a very thorough person...and I"m thinking...wow he knows me...and OH BOY did he.
He then turned to me and said, Deb if you were making a movie of your life and there was a beginning and then the middle and an ending...what would you want...You are the director and you can change, cast, do Whatever you want with it..Can ya think about that...
I'm thinking, What the hell, I'm in a crisis and he wants me to do a movie of my life...how the hell am I supposed to know how it would end..I can't get past today. I think I even said that..
So now I'm a thorough person and I think Deep so I some times do deep thinking get it together before I speak about what it is I think or feel, especially with something so intense in my life.
I think the T was counting on This and was putting all bets on me being thorough not that I thought about that at the time.
So I would think about this movie deal and felt kind of silly but I did it. I went from past to present everything that was my life....and when I wanted the ending I could not do one.
I'm thinking, my T is smart and after something he wants me to do and figure out ...something that is holding me here.. or something I'm not resolving...
Went to childhood, family, friends, up to present....Oh no...I would like to change that for everything to be All good...Be a family without these crazy things going on but I can't so I can change me staying and I really need to leave or him and why am I staying when I'm so unhappy and hate it damn well knowing he is what he is (which I really didn't know exactly what) but something I have never lived or known ever in my life...OR did I?
Everytime I took this movie to the present and even seen me saying..GET OUT...I would feel anxiety and Trauma...and thinking...What if he don't come back? What if he stays out? and then think...what if he does? He should...so back to the beginning...AND BAM!!!
When I was little I could hear from my room when my parents didn't know or were so Angry that they didn't give me a thought that I might have heard...I would hear my mother so mad at my dad that she would burst out..GET THE HELL OUT. Now I'm a kid and how the hell am I supposed to know that she didn't mean it and it was Angry words and I don't think they knew how damaged I was and the Fears I had because of that. I'm sure my F really pissed her off for good reason and she just Blurt Out...or really meant Get the Hell Out at the moment or the night..but I couldn't, didn't or should have understood. I heard this on more then one occasion and I don't remember much except for one night when I went running out of my bed and begging my father not to go and my mother to forgive him and them to make up. I could not imagine being without them together and fearfull that some day it may happen. I remember them comforting me and saying that would never happen it was just words but I never felt comfortable and worried that they were just trying to make me feel better and someday I would not have my father there.
Abandonment/Separation Fears ...things that went so deep that I carried them into my adult life when I was married ...old unresolved issues/Fears/Damage.
I never got to reveal this to the T because he was killed in a car accident but I do think he knew put bets on that I would keep going back and seeing what was stopping me From leaving...staying in something that was so unhealthy wanting to get out...saying I would get out...but never being able to do it.
And I thought I'm redirecting my life back to the same old thing...things I didn't know...things I feared to move forward with...things that I had to resolve to move on or things I did know but would not bring them to conscious for they were so traumatic to me I buried them and when this crisis happened...I was stuck, I couldn't go further, I was traumatized all over again but had things from my past unresolved which made it even worse when I needed to Act. I didn't. I froze. I was scared, what if he don't come back?
I stopped directing my life or maybe that is where I directed it in the first place to marry my Ex when I shouldn't have with red flags all over the place.
I am the director and there are things I cannot change but understand what I could not and can now and the past can't be changed by my present directing and future into directing my life where I would like it to head....no ending..not till death do I part....some life curveballs but then I redirect and keep going...
I do think and wish I knew for sure this is what he wanted me to realize..and go back..get present...and fly directing my life into the future..with resloved issues within myself. And it worked.
The beginning was still the beginning the middle was still the middle (but with understanding what was keeping me prisoner and frozen and fearful and even probably setting myself up) and then I moved to future...and ending. The ending would be peace and contentment...and doing everything I could to direct and redirect for that..being whole and happy with life ups and downs and still moving forward with direction...
When I went from present (at that time) my thoughts were not of my ex in them. He was not kept out he was just not there. No future husband was, no white picket fence, no nothing...just my kids and maybe some struggles, hard times, but happy doing it...and ya know...
I had no money, Nada, not one dime..and I struggled was lonely at times..but happy..directing forward..moved out of state by my sister, got a small house, a car that was on it's last leg, no friends, even no TV, had kids who depended on me, scared and Happy all at the same time.
Now I do have the white picket fence, dogs, remarried another child, still a crappy car (lol) more money but not rich, life's ups and downs, things that happen that you really wish did not but redirect to what I have to work with and keep going....
Direct your life Sun...and redirect your life Sun ...and keep going...to where you want it to head/be...and what you want out of this life....and the things that cannot be and not for you to direct...someones else Life Movie is how they direct their own....and something you are not in control of...but what you want you can get...maybe not with the people who were Family but you can have it...with your family you make of your own....friends/animals whatever you direct into your life...or out...
And I do think that is where he wanted to bring me...I think. I don't fear well I fear things at times but I don't let them stop me unless of course they Should for safety...but ...one day at a time..direct..and don't put bets on that it will always be like this...because like my T's bets (I think) were on me as I put bets no you...that you will direct your life...where you want it to go...it is possible...No more, hoping...Now just waiting for it to happen...It will...I promise you this...just be patient and think....it will...it will...I will direct my life from now on...I will make it happen...I am my own director...as scared shit as I am....I'm the director.
I know it sounds so corny but that is the way it worked for me.
Love
Deb
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Hi Sun,
Well, I am ok with doggy licks on the chin or cheeks – just can’t handle swapping saliva with dentally hygienically challenged dogs.
I didn’t have to give him treats under the table, he sat on my BIL’s lap at the dinner table and shared a plate with him.
(Not even going there ::shuddering:: ) : )
Although, have to admit, I loved it – my FOO would have had a heart attack – his love for that dog was apparent in every move he took – beautiful!
The niece I was referring to is my H’s brother’s daughter. You remembered I have a bio-bro and a sis – thank you!!! My brother was a budding P as a child. He and I are very close in age (< 1 year apart). He hated me from the moment I was born, and made my life as miserable as he could when we were children – and I mean miserable – he was as nasty as they come. He is the GC. Prior to NC, as an adult, he would still tell lies about me to my parents – just to try inflame and already difficult situation. He is not a nice person.
My sister was better, she is a lot younger than the 2 of us, and was left alone by my parents – I pretty much raised her. She didn’t get any of the varied types of abuse that I got. My Dad left her alone, and my mother spoiled her. She turned out to have some Nistic traits – but she wasn't really mean/nasty/manipulative per se, just very, very, very self absorbed and shallow. She was a good one for always asking me for something, but if I asked her help for something, unless there was something in it for her, she would, without fail, refuse.
I am no contact with the lot of them; little over 2 years now.
I don’t understand why your brother is treating you the way he is …. I wonder if having you in his life is too much of a reminder of the way your incubator treats him? On the flip side, maybe he is self-absorbed like my sister, but not overtly mean/nasty?
Whatever the reason doesn’t really matter – what matters is that you deserve a lot better, and you have done nothing to deserve how you are being treated.
You are a lot nicer to your bioparents than I would be. You mentioned that they left you a list of chores and are asking for your help around the house? Well – have to say, I would be tempted to say to them, you enjoy sis’s company so much, why don’t you have her over to do the work – then you can chat and have a great time!!!
I spent ~6? years living alone. It was hard at first, but it morphed into one of the most peaceful times of my life. If I wanted to read a book or watch TV – I could without someone haranguing me about something. I limited contact as much as possible. (The day that caller ID was invented – well that was a day for serious celebration!!). Although, here I think we have different perspectives? I wanted to get away. It sounds like you don’t want to get away, you want them to change? I think maybe that although I would have loved for them to change – part of me realized that they never would. I still held onto some hope though, at least until I went NC.
While I was alone, I spent a lot of time developing my career by default, ie., I spent a lot of time working – a very N’istic company – it was awful at the time, easily 70+ hours/week. We used to joke at that company that we would make more money working at a fast food place. When you calculated the hours we worked versus our salaries – we made far less than minimum wage – and the stress was over the top. But, it paid off in the long run, they trained me and now I can make a nice living for my family from that training, it is a pretty rare field with few experienced in it.
I had 10 years of therapy. I sometimes wonder where I would be today without it – certainly not where I am today. I think therapy is a really good idea if you can swing it, although it is tough to find someone good. If they lack empathy – seems to me that they need to find a new career.
That was so sweet of your neighbor. There are some really good people out there.
I agree with Deb, don’t give up all hope.
I do know for me, the hope that my family would change held me hostage for many, many years.
When that hope died, I became free. It was not an easy process at all; that death of hope as it pertained to my FOO. It was incredibly painful. But it got easier over time.
I still have my moments, although they are fewer and don’t last as long. There are times when I am so bone-weary of living what I have lived. Sometimes, it is so hard to get up and face another day. My pets helped me through the really dark periods when I was alone. Now I have kids.
It is hard – so often I fall back into the old pattern of thinking that there was something I did to make me the black sheep. Then, I look at my children – and there is no way I would ever treat them as I was treated, and it helps. I look at their little faces and think how could anyone be so cruel to a child? I believe it is because they are broken, but I still have trouble wrapping my mind around why the can't seem to change.
If you were the mother of your family Sun – would you treat anyone the way they have treated you? I can tell by your posting that the answer to that is no.
Unfortunately, at least with my FOO, the only option for me was to walk away.
Sometimes, I write here, and I have no idea if it helps or hurts. Please know that the last thing I want to do is cause hurt. Sometimes, I feel so messed up, it is like who am I to give any kind of advice? I hit these moments, and where I used to get so down on myself, I try and remember to give myself a break. Sigh – it isn’t always easy though.
I don’t know the answers Sun – I do know my heart breaks for what your family has done to you. It sounds so similar to what mine did to me – and it was awful. NC doesn’t make the past go away per se – but it makes dealing with the present so much easier.
I care Sun and I know that there are those in 3D who will as well, it just takes time.
Take care and with love,
FP
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FP, I have not seen you in a long time. I am so happy to see you today.
Hope everything is going well for you.
Love to you.
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Hi Lupita,
Thanks for your note! I was taking a bit of a break from posting. You sound so good these days - I am so happy for you.
Sun,
I am sorry - I re-read my post and it sounded pretty depressing didn't it? I am very sorry - didn't mean to put that on you. I am still having a hard time with the loss of my kitty (and talking about my FOO usually gets me down).
Hope you are doing ok.
Love to you both,
FP
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Hops,
Many people are filled with cheer during this holiday season. For years, I have been filled with gradually increasing sadness, dread, anxiety, depression.
I'm glad you've broke the code on why the holidays are a dread and that you're crafting them to suit you.
tt
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Thank you, TT!
I figured out that other urgencies...mainly the upcoming hearing with my brother...drove the rest (holiday expectations and tension) the rest of the way out of my life. It is such a pleasure. I realize that all this time, I've done it for my Nmom. Whatever pleasure I might once have taken in it is gone now, given my brother out to tear me apart. (Which I won't let him do, no matter how the court hearing turns out Friday.)
I truly am immunized. I am barely noticing as the shopping ramps up around me. I'm really just not thinking about it. My D doesn't do Xmas, and I feel completely comfortable, for the first time, not participating. Sort of happy that she's boycotting...it doesn't even feel like boycottoing. I just now feel I get it. She doesn't do it yet she's always home for a while shortly before or after. Suits me fine!
A lot of it is because my mother is now out of it so her holiday demands just aren't happening. I will certainly take her a cozy gift and some extra love. I will buy lovely socks for Gennulman (in fact, since neither of us has money to blow, I think I'll suggest to him: how about we each get the other ONE really nice pair of socks?). But thank heaven, he is not into the holidays either.
I just had a really good visit with my D who was home for 2 nights, and I am going to Miami for a week with her in January. Meanwhile, everybody else being so distracted about Xmas feels in a funny way like being left in peace.
It's cozy and calm in my home now. I notice the stars, the weather, the air. I don't feel any reflexive sense that I have to "do" Christmas. The minister's wife is now away, at their retirement home. And I'm sure she's into it all. But what I'm going to do is point her to the Xmas tree (already decorated) that's draped in plastic in the basement, show her where lights and ornaments are, and basically invite her to do whatever she likes. Just...count me out.
It feels like such freedom. It's early December and I'm sure there will be some festivities. But I just feel a peaceful detachment I've never felt before. (I am realizing...it really is all Mom's absence. Plus my brother's malignancy. There is no more tension in me about it. Nothing to pretend.)
love,
Hops
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((((Hops)))
How nice to have that January visit planned.
You sound so good, Hops.....I'm glad.
Lighter