Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: bearwithme on April 30, 2010, 04:12:30 PM

Title: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: bearwithme on April 30, 2010, 04:12:30 PM: Well, I'm sure that some of you are aware of my "big blow up" a couple of weeks ago (I describe this in the "I'm depressed" thread) where I literally lost it and threw my NM out of my house...luggage, purse, keys, phone, clothes, etc., all hit the front lawn at 10:00 at night and I also called her every name in the book, and then some.

We haven't spoken since. I didn't even call her for her birthday last week nor will I call her on Mother's Day. She didn't even call me for my birthday the previous week.

Well, I just received a voice-mail message from her and it was intended for my daughter (age 2.5). This is how it sounded:

Hellllloooooo! This message is for my little punkin' pie..helllooo my sweet angel baby, Grandma looooooves you
are you being a good girl? Oooooooh, I miss you sooooo much....I loooovvve you baby...I love you...what are you doing
and how have you been??? Hhhheeeeeee heeeeeee, kisses, kisses, and more kisses from Grandmaaaaaa!!!!!"

Click.

I want to add this: On Monday night, my husband an I were talking about that blow up night. He told me something that she told him when I left that night in my car to cool off. Among all the crazy things she said to him like, "you don't know the REAL Bear, she's no Angel..." and "You don't know what she's capable of..." and "she says she went to therapy and obviously it was a waste of money and her therapist laughed all the way to the bank...." Etc., NM told my husband this:

"Bear just doesn't get it. She doesn't get life and it's going to take a horrendous tragedy in her life for her to finally see the light."

Every hair on my body stood up. I took this as a threat. No matter what she refers to as the "tragedy," it doesn't matter, no person and NO MOTHER should ever say this to someone they supposedly love.
Note: My husband saw my face and mentioned that my NM went on to say, "yeah, I'm not going to be around forever and someday I'll be gone......" STILL, her "tragedy" comment or wish or whatever, on her daughter is unspeakable.

Do I really owe it to my daughter to have her listen to her Granmother's phone messages??? I'm so upset all over again just hearing her voice, like nothing happened.

Please help me with this.

Bear
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: BonesMS on April 30, 2010, 05:24:58 PM: Bear,

You don't owe that NB*TCH a daggone thing! If I were you, I would ERASE that message from her ROYAL @#$%ness!

Bones
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: bearwithme on April 30, 2010, 06:57:48 PM: Bones,

I get your drift. You are so clear in it! LOL!!!!

I just wonder how far this needs to go? Should I put it past her to think that is what she really meant, that it is "she" that won't be around forever or that she actually is threatening me or my family???

I just wonder how vindictive my NM really is??? Hmmmmm. See, it is me giving the benefit of the doubt....
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: Logy on April 30, 2010, 08:39:49 PM: Bear,

That whole message and what she said to your husband is evil beyond words!!! :x :evil:

My personal opinion is that you should erase the message, never mention it to your daughter nor allow her to hear one word of it. And then continue on with your life. I don't think she will try anything. I think her definition of a horrible tragedy is your NM's death. To N's that is the most horrible thing. That they will no longer exist. And that others will be devastated if the N no longer exists. Little do they know.

But I also think you should be vigilant with regards to your own mental health and your daughter's mental health. With your husband's support and understanding of NM's issues, he can help protect his family, you and your daughter. Know that he is there and will work through it with you. I believe she is more capable of mental torture than physical harm.

Don't give this woman one ounce of your consideration! You do not owe her anything. To say those things about your own daughter is pathetic.

BTW, I agree with Bones!
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: bearwithme on April 30, 2010, 09:06:37 PM: Logy,
Quote
I think her definition of a horrible tragedy is your NM's death. To N's that is the most horrible thing. That they will no longer exist. And that others will be devastated if the N no longer exists. Little do they know

I had not thought of this! It is true. If they no longer exist, then they feel that it will be a horrible tragedy for everyone!!!!! I swear, this NPD business is so amazing. It's gotta be one of the worst PD's out there.

But you know, deep, deep, deep, deep down inside my heart, it still hurts a little. Because this is supposed to be my mother. She has made herself into something else...it's totally counterintuitive.

Thanks Logy and Bones. This does help. Commiserating.

Bear
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: Butterfly on April 30, 2010, 10:59:57 PM: Oh, Bear! How horrible! You might want to change your phone number . . .

It has been my experience that any attempt at contact by an NM after the "big blowup" is absolutely sickening. I have not allowed my children near NM for over two years now. I know how evil she is. I've heard my husband's account of her nasty, horrible remarks about me. So, I moved, changed all my numbers, etc. Please take care of yourself, Bear. When you are down or feeling vulnerable, it is easy to fall back into the N vortex. I have found that seeking out my true friends and relying on them during these vulnerable times helps tremendously.

Wishing you peace -
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: Logy on May 01, 2010, 12:45:09 AM: Oh, Bear! YES! It hurts! We are all that child who wants someone who will love us, no matter what. Someone who understands our innocence and vulnerability.

Instead we got a person who expected the world to revolve around them. Who put their emotional and physical needs above ours. As an infant, a toddler, a child, how are we supposed to understand?

So as adults we have alot of issues. One of biggest is healing that hurt.

The state I live in has a special license plate that says "Kids first". NM has this plate. Everytime she drives up and I see that plate I think "what a lie". And it hurts all over again.
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: bearwithme on May 01, 2010, 01:38:11 AM: Quote
NM has this plate. Everytime she drives up and I see that plate I think "what a lie". And it hurts all over again.

This is so like my NM. N's in general parade around waving banners of righteousness. They aren't about making things right. They are about being righteous.

I no longer refer to my NM as my "mom" in conversations. I call her by her actual first name and the last name she was born with, her maiden name, because she is no longer a part of "me" and my last name is part of me.

When I blew up, I screamed that she was a little two year old baby and that my 2.5 year old was more intelligent than her. I called her by her birth name and she didn't like that at all. In fact, she got upset. Hmmm, did I hit a nerve? YES!

Logy: my hurt is all what you said and healing that hurt even hurts.

Butterfly: sounds like you had a "blow up" too? Why do our NM's have to go to our husband's and slander us daughters? What drives them this way??? It is so disturbing and so violating. What makes them think that they will get our husband's to turn against us???

Well, I erased the message without letting my daughter listen to it. I felt so much power.

I felt power over my own destiny

Bear
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: Worn on May 01, 2010, 01:47:11 AM: Just wanted to say...YAY BEAR!!!!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Remember that feeling of power. Worn

Edited because that deserves a bevy of mr. greens. 8)
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: bearwithme on May 01, 2010, 02:23:07 AM: Thank you for that vote of confidence, Worn. And I'll take the Mr. Greens as long as your dishing them out.

Bear
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: Twoapenny on May 01, 2010, 02:26:18 AM: Bear, I am so glad that you erased that message and didn't let your daughter listen to it. When I stopped talking to my mum she sent my son a letter, every week, for the next nine months (he was four and wouldn't have been able to read it himself even if I had let him). I am sure there is probably a psychological term for this kind of behaviour but basically my mum was trying to get to me through my son. She'd put loads of flowery stuff in it (like your mum has done with the phone message) but there'd be other bits, like how she'd been to the funeral of a close relative (but she wouldn't say who it was) or how she was off to the solicitor that day to change her will. My feeling was that, as she was no longer getting a response from me, she was either trying to get one because of what she was doing to my son or trying to get to him in any way she could.

Either way, it's crazy making behaviour. Given what happened between the two of you recently, normal behaviour now would be contact between the adults, not someone phoning a child and leaving them a message (I am not saying that you should contact her - quite the opposite - but what I mean is, if two adults fall out, they communicate until the relationship is patched up, they don't leave syrupy messages for toddlers).

Over the last eight years I have written long letters to my mum, spent hours talking with her, cried, begged, screamed, shouted, tried email only contact, twice yearly visits and just letting her have access to my son without her needing to see me. None of it worked. The more time I spend in therapy, the more I realise how utterly poisonous and dangerous my parents are. The only way I have been able to stop the cycle, as it were, is to completely ignore her.

Unfortunately for your mum, Bear, you do know what life is all about. It's about love and commitment, about raising your children and keeping them healthy, it's about honesty and integrity and building strong, intimate relationships with other healthy people. You are doing all of that and your mum doesn't fit into that picture. I think the tragedy she talks about is what's happening to her, becasue her N source is being cut off from her and she won't know how to function without it.

Stay strong! You are doing everything absolutely right - and you can always change your number if necessary.

Twoapenny xxx
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: Hopalong on May 01, 2010, 09:15:44 AM: (((((((Bear!!!!)))))))

When you erased that message, you behaved like a mother.

Fantastic.

Keep hitting "delete", dear.

Yes, it's sad. But you are re-mothering yourself as you heal and as your life goes on it will become more reflexive to act in your own self interest, and never be frozen and pent-up again. And protecting your child from this toxic nonsense? Don't analyse each message or gesture from her to see if you can somehow filter it for a few decent bits to maintain a grandmother relationship for your child...consider that her disease does make her entirely unhealthy for your child.

Delete, mom...YOU'RE a mother. She's lost the privilege.

You can still grieve. Just keep the boundary up because that's how life gets better and goes past her.

love,
Hops
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: BonesMS on May 01, 2010, 09:17:29 AM: Quote from: bearwithme on April 30, 2010, 09:06:37 PM
Logy,
Quote
I think her definition of a horrible tragedy is your NM's death. To N's that is the most horrible thing. That they will no longer exist. And that others will be devastated if the N no longer exists. Little do they know

I had not thought of this! It is true. If they no longer exist, then they feel that it will be a horrible tragedy for everyone!!!!! I swear, this NPD business is so amazing. It's gotta be one of the worst PD's out there.

But you know, deep, deep, deep, deep down inside my heart, it still hurts a little. Because this is supposed to be my mother. She has made herself into something else...it's totally counterintuitive.

Thanks Logy and Bones. This does help. Commiserating.

Bear

((((((((((((((((((((Bear)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Bones
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: Nonameanymore on May 01, 2010, 04:40:32 PM: Hi bear,

I wanted to write to your initial thread from work then the internet went down as I was typing because I had a similar incident the night before I saw NM for the very last time, sometime in 1995. I had to break some glasses or I would have hit her, or had her thrown out the balcony but it was only a 1st floor apartment...

She has threatened me for years and years with the 'only when I am gone will you realise how much your mommy loved you as you won't be able to stand on your own two feet' - well I am standing on my own two feet for 15 years now, thank you very much.

The thing I realised these last few days as I am going through a 40 day long detox (sorry I am not sharing more here) and I realise that these women have made us addicted to drama and that about 95% of what happens to us is not as dramatic but we have to make it dramatic to suit what we're used to. What I am saying is that my NM was creating all these intriguing situations with her 'divide and conquer' motto, she managed to poison and then kill all of my important relationships.
Don't let her do this to your family. She's not worth it but most of all, she doesn't have the power to do it. They just mislead us to believe that they are all powerful.

I realis that I am answering most to your initial thread but I am glad I can do it even with delay...

HHappy Belated birthday aswell!
Pxxx
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: bearwithme on May 01, 2010, 06:01:57 PM: Quote
normal behaviour now would be contact between the adults, not someone phoning a child and leaving them a message (I am not saying that you should contact her - quite the opposite - but what I mean is, if two adults fall out, they communicate until the relationship is patched up, they don't leave syrupy messages for toddlers).

Tap: Yes. She is not an adult. She is a two year old child so how can she call me and have an adult conversation? I indeed agree that my NM doesn't fit into my scenario any more. Thanks for sharing your wisdom.

Hops wrote:
Quote
Don't analyse each message or gesture from her to see if you can somehow filter it for a few decent bits to maintain a grandmother relationship for your child...consider that her disease does make her entirely unhealthy for your child.

Delete, mom...YOU'RE a mother. She's lost the privilege.

What a way to solidify the outcome of this event in my life! Because that's what I've always done: Hang on to the smallest morsel of normalcy and those ever so fleeting moments where she looks at me in the eye and (I think) she sees the real me. But those fleeting and small tidbits of food are not enough to have a healthy relationship with someone. My husband even said what you said, "she's lost the privilege."

Pxxx: I'm so glad you read my initial post and could relate to such a huge moment in life, for me and for you. This "Drama" stuff. Yes. It's crazy. I have tended to shy away from drama in my life and shied away from obnoxious behaving people. But that blowup night made my look like a "Dynasty" T.V. star!!! And it has left me reeling a bit because I don't "go crazy" for nothing. So you smashed glasses?? Awesome! I should have done that, too!

THE AFTERMATH: I looked at the walls the next morning and there were black scuffs every where down the hallway. On one door jam, there was a gouge from where I flung her suitcase--it was too heavy so I ended up flinging it like those Olympic Shot-put athletes and it didn't go very far, just into the door jam but then I kicked it down the hallway, hence, the black scuffs. I found parts of her phone on the floor (it's my phone anyways since I pay for it every month), and my husband found some of her makeup in our front yard since I threw her purse and makeup bag (a very big one) and stuff went everywhere...we never found her supposedly missing eye glasses. My husband reminded me that she was screaming as I was throwing her stuff, saying, "HELP! HELP! HELP ME STEVE, HELP ME STEVE, STEEEEEVVVVVE, HELP ME!!! STEVE, STEVE!!!

I've learned so much from you all. Thank you for supporting me in every turn I make concerning my NM.

Bear
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: JustKathy on May 01, 2010, 10:50:43 PM: Quote
I think her definition of a horrible tragedy is your NM's death. To N's that is the most horrible thing.

I think that's EXACTLY what she means by that. My NM is supposed to be dying of cancer (I say "supposed to be" because she claimed to have a month to live, last June). When she was diagnosed with her alleged terminal cancer, she started sending me guilt letters saying things like "one day you'll learn the truth," "one day you'll realize that I'm not the evil person you told everyone I was," and so on. None of it made any sense. She was just being a gigantic drama queen. They definitely see their own death as a HUGE, earth shattering event. The planet simply cannot continue to rotate without them on it. And we, the children, will no longer be able to function without them.
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: swimmer on May 02, 2010, 02:21:58 AM: That's great you erased it Bear!! Toxic!!!!! Gives me the shivers....
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: Baddaughter on May 02, 2010, 04:29:59 AM: I still love that story. Love love love it! Help me Steeevve! I hope by now that I'm laughing with you.

The veiled threats not so funny -- what in the world goes through their minds? And how come it is so directed that multitudes of their other acquaintances (many lifelong) never seem to detect anything "funny."

My mom passed in Feb and yesterday I inadvertently retrieved one of her voice mails from last April (09). She was in high form for this message. I've lost my whole family as a result of her shenanigans over the past year -- and then she checked out and didn't get to enjoy the fruits of her labors -- so your story is resonating with me this evening.

But more than one time, I wanted to drop kick her into next week. I swear to you that I never hoped for her death or expected it any time soon. But I have become a prayer warrior of sorts the past few years and never cease to be amazed at the results and the path it is taking me down. So even with all I have lost and all that I won't ever have -- my life without her in it is easier than when she was in it. I had been totally no contact from July 6th until now, so it wasn't like her passing made that much difference, at least not in the here and now -- but now I find that her death has somehow Intensifed all the Staunch Loyalty of her. She was a saint before -- but now -- well can ya hear the choirs of angels?

So it is not entirely a hardship that none of them speak to me anymore. I ran into some of my cousins this evening and first cousin would not make eye contact. These folks never seemed involved during the years and years that I was devoting my life to some screwball appease my parents pilgrimage. None of these people ever had words with me or spoke to me directly about my situation or anything -- life long relationships -- just gone -- up in smoke -- won't return calls -- won't open dialogs -- look for excuses to extend snub to additional family members -- so my ploy the past two months is to beat them to the ignore -- I'm kind, polite and breezy and fast -- I've seen too many episodes of Jerry Springer to antagonize any of these whacks.

As much as I applaud it, I commiserate with your frustraton in losing it -- they are not worth it and it just makes them set their jaw and act worse -- but at least the anger was landing where it was aimed instead of hurting youself mentally or causing you stress illness -- that seems healthy. If she doesn't like -- she can change or stay away (and other dreams). Lately I've been fantasizing that I was switched at birth -- aahhh -- nice.

Love Biddy
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: Hopalong on May 02, 2010, 01:07:28 PM: You were, Biddy...come back!

I'd much rather have you than my brother.

Hops
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: bearwithme on May 02, 2010, 06:43:00 PM: Biddy wrote:
Quote
I ran into some of my cousins this evening and first cousin would not make eye contact. These folks never seemed involved during the years and years that I was devoting my life to some screwball appease my parents pilgrimage. None of these people ever had words with me or spoke to me directly about my situation or anything -- life long relationships -- just gone -- up in smoke -- won't return calls -- won't open dialogs -- look for excuses to extend snub to additional family members -- so my ploy the past two months is to beat them to the ignore -- I'm kind, polite and breezy and fast -- I've seen too many episodes of Jerry Springer to antagonize any of these whacks.

This is an outrageous experience. They are all N's!! My NM's family is the same way. Most are crazy N's like what you described above. It's funny, they like to "pit" one against that one without hearing both sides of the story. They love, love, love the gossip and to believe this one about that one and did this and did that and oh my gosh. Your cousins should be ashamed of themselves--they have no right whatsoever!!

Swimmer, JustKathy: thank you for those words and supporting me. I so feel this now. I feel supported and believe I'm doing the right thing, not only by your experiences but in my own unique way, which makes it even MORE right and honest.

I'd like to quote Biddy "what in the world goes through their minds?" This is the thing I grapple with on a daily basis. Do they even have the ability to think? No, actually think, think, think. What could possibly be going through her mind when she called and heard my voice on the message machine? Not that I need to know, but it's both perplexing and fascinating to me. I'd like to know if she rolled her eyes or grimaced or felt bad in the least way. I'm trying to humanize her here, aren't I?? Because she has only dehumanized me all my life!!

The questions I have will never be answered. I need to stop feeling frustrated with this...oh, someday. Someday.

Bear
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: Portia on May 02, 2010, 07:15:08 PM: Hi Bear

I'm trying to humanize her here, aren't I?

It's like having a computer running the most basic operating system and imagining that it's capable of responding like Windows 7. It isn't capable. It runs the basic programs - survive, get attention - but isn't capable of running Other People Are Separate (and therefore: compassion, empathy, understanding etc). You might imagine that OPAS lies dormant inside that basic OS, but it doesn't. The neural architecture withered away long ago; it was never used.

Maybe we'll be able to upload OPAS one day (don't hold your breath). Until then, it's a good idea to keep your imagination in check and only judge by behaviour.

Remember: it's not only you that she dehumanizes, she does it to everyone. And it's not through a purposeful attempt to 'do it to you' - it's simply the program running what it does. My two cents.
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: bearwithme on May 03, 2010, 12:07:58 PM: Quote
It runs the basic programs - survive, get attention - but isn't capable of running Other People Are Separate (and therefore: compassion, empathy, understanding etc).

Portia, I think your right. This is evident during the big blow out where I went "white with anger." I couldn't see straight and all I heard her say was "what about yoooouuuu?" What about me? What about me? What about me? What????

Her basic program is all about her but when things go wrong, it's all about the OTHER PERSON = ME!! (Or when I was growing up it was my dad, then when he disappeared, it was my brother, then when he disappeared, it became me).

It's been me waaaayyyyyyyyy too long.

Bear
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: Portia on May 04, 2010, 07:41:04 PM: It seems a bit of a contradiction Bear, that on the one hand it's all about 'me', but then there's zero responsibility for own actions or decisions etc...all responsibility is someone else's, all 'blame' is elsewhere. Yeah, there has to be a victim, a current repository for all the bad stuff. Has it ever been me I wonder? i wouldn't know. Sometimes i think mine fears me a little - possibly going on the basis that everyone is like her - and that idea should be enough to scare anyone. But she probably does it behind my back, not to my face. I represent too much of her own mother to her - and there lies the fear i think. Damn strange!

Hope you step out of the game Bear.
Title: Re: NM left message on my voice mail
Post by: Butterfly on May 06, 2010, 09:48:23 PM: My T explained that Ns are so extremely emotionally disabled that one cannot expect anything rational, straight or sensible to come from them. It is as if they don't really exist as their own persons but only reflect their immediate need of the moment whether it be attention, soothing, blame, etc. Almost like a newborn animal. They don't seem to have their own opinions or ideas but only what they hear from others. It has been my experience that they are not capable of any introspection whatsoever. Very scary that they exist - the next great scourge of the modern world.