Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: seastorm on December 08, 2010, 12:50:45 PM
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I just got a complete knee replacement on November 30. This is no picnic but manageable.
On November 6 I was ordered to leave my daughters home by her husband. This was on my first visit across the country to see my new grandchild.
I have cried a lot over this and prayed too. There must be some way to heal this. Daughter is hurt and furious that I was hurt because her rich stepmother was the first to see the baby and stayed eight days before I came. By the time I got there they were sick of company I think.
This is very painful. I am pretty zonked on medication and pain and recovering from surgery. I live alone and it is a balancing act to cope. Friends have been good to me.
I think it is very hard for kids to go through the horror of the narcissistic marriage with their moms. She was there for it all. Now she cant stand to think about it or hear about it. Not one word. She is furious at me for mentioning that I felt hurt that her stepmother came to visiit. Things never got worked out with my ex and the stepmother because they never communicated at all. They would say there is nothing to talk about. This was for everything involving my daughter. There policy was "there is nothing to talk about, "
This is a strange way to live. My ex is an alcoholic and wealthy.
I have prayed for forgiveness. Forgive myself and them. My daughter wants me to let go of the past and never talk one word about it.I want her to acknowledge some of what I went through. So we miss each other. Her father was extremely abusive. The stepmother decided that she would never talk to me and that she would be my daughter's mother. Most people reallize that the other parent exists and some kind of relationship needs to be developed. The stepmom figured she would declare me nuts and she stuck to that. The damage is horrible.
I am at the point where I cant stand it anymore and find my daughter to be very cold and self centred. I think I feel this way because it is true but also because I cant see beyond my own pain.
Please give me your thoughts.
Sea storm
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Hey SS - I can understand your hurt. Maybe her post-natal hormones at work? Just a thought. Keeping you in my thoughts.
towrite
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SS:
I don't know how to get past unjust pain, and trauma.
I'd like to think that crying, grieving and acknowledging it,ourselves, helps us move beyond it.
I'd like to think we don't need to have all that damage recognized by others, but I honestly don't know how we get beyond it.
If we do manage, I guess we've accepted that something egregiously unfair has happened, and that society allowed it.
We accept that it won't change, and that there will never ever be any justice in the matter.
IMO, that's impossible to do while the damage is still being inflicted, as it is with your dd and her stepmother.
We make peace with that unfair reality, and we move past it. I guess that's how it works, anyway.
From where I sit, I'd want contact with my Grandchild.
I might have to emotionally withdrawl with love from my daughter for a bit, but I'd want to be there for that Grandchild.
You can't go back and retrieve these days.
You can't go back and change your abusive marriage or the hours you and your daughter spent there.
All you have is today.
What's important today?
SS, I hope you can find a terrific therapist to help you work though your pain.
You're entitled to it.
You should be able to express it.
That your daughter can't be there for you is OK, IMO.
She has her own dragons to slay, I think.
(((Seastorm)))
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I am learning to love my D anyway.
The only thing that is working is distance (she was wise to move away and it is a relief we can both now work on ourselves without the daily friction) and to not need anything from her.
(I am learning that I can teach myself that I do not, in fact, NEED her love or approval. I WANT it--and sometimes with anguish--but I don't NEED it to survive or heal.) Christmas is quite the test and I am going to be fine. Walking doggies at the SPCA.
That has been one of the most shocking things in my life. That I could teach myself I don't NEED the love and approval of my child.
I have begun to see that the farther I go with this, the more peaceful I feel (and the easier our contacts, which are brief and not frequent these days, become.) It's getting better. I have to leave my emotions out of it. I am very very busy, and that is very good.
I forced myself to deal with the shock and grief I have felt over how it's not how it SHOULD be, and am beginning to make my peace with how it IS. I have needed, and sought, a lot of support. And I'm taking better care of myself. Beginning to feel my own, individual and separate, dreams again.
One of the biggest things was to face the fact that I no longer set the terms. Any terms. I have to accept her terms, even when they include distance. I have no choice. I have no power. None. Zip. No persuasive power, no guilt power, no manipulative power, no pleading power, no justice power.
What a relief, to yield to the truth. To have no power. To actually embrace having no power. I don't want it any more. I don't want to "win" her love. I just want to give her the space and the time to heal herself. Renewed love, a future connection that's stronger and more peaceful, may result. How can I know the future? Meanwhile, I love her, I don't think about her every hour, and I am living my own whole life. Not the empty-womb life.
She's been gone from my womb a long time. She can no longer be my reason for believing in life. She can no longer be my purpose. She can no longer be half my identity. And it's okay.
The only choice I have is to continue loving her (which I do) but not obsessing, and never again let myself believe that she holds my peace in her hands.
My job is to give up anguish. I had to grieve and I may have to grieve again. But that's just part of my life. I will go through it when it comes but I will not make it my identity.
I'm sorry to talk about myself so much, Sea. You know I relate to a lot of what you're going through.
I send you love. And fast healing from the knee surgery. And hopes for you, that you will find new purpose.
Hops
PS--the stepmother doesn't matter. She's not "taking your place." You are you and you are good. Your daughter may figure this out in the future. It would be better for her if she did. But your anguish or yearning for it will not help it happen. Ever. Your healing is necessary because your own separate existence, with or without your daughter's understanding, is a meaningful, marvelous thing. It is RIGHT for you to heal.
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Hugs, seastorm. Sorry to hear that. :(
I don't have any kids..but love Hop's post!
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I sure appreciate your thoughts on this. I have not been very responsive as recovering from surgery and live alone. I'm doing well and can walk without any aids after ten days.This is amazing. Very tired though and sleep a lot. This sense of isolation and vulnerability is probably contributing to my sadness at distance from my daughter.
So I am not the only one being pushed out of my child's life. I really dont like it. Hope I am not like a Shirley MacLaine dominatrix mommie diearest who has smothered my poor kid. She sure is mad at me. Her husband is feeding this in what seems to me to be a manipulative way. He is afraid she wants to move out west and she has always said that she wants to move out west.
Who knows????? I sure can't cope with drama right now anymore. I can hardly get to the bathroom for pete's sake and wander around in a medicated haze.
What a blessing to hear from you all. When I hear that CB is experiencing the same thing I realize that it is not catastrophic but maybe a phase where a child is doing the work of growing up and making their own life.The message is clear to get my own life. With my new knee I am on the road to better mobility. This is day ten after surgery.
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I am really grieving the loss of my daughter. She wants me to accept that I was attacking her husband and full of anger when I went to visit.This is just not so.
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You can accept that they perceived your actions meant one thing, when you truly meant something else.
You can apologize that daughter's h "felt" attacked, and say you'd like to make sure that never happens again.
Hopefull, they'll get over themselves, and you can perfect the art of walking on egg shells for them: /
So sorry this is happening.
The birth of a Grandchild should be a joyful occassion ((SS.))
Lighter
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I got an email with pictures of the baby.
I am sick of talk going back and forth.
The Natives here think that a there are two wolves in a person. One wolf is the angry wolf and the other is peaceful. A grandfather was asked which wolf wins? Grandfather replied," The one I feed the most". '
I am praying for light and healing. I just cant fix this.
Sea storm
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Sea, I think the hardest thing in life is accepting there are some things that we can't fix. We can't make other people behave how we want, no matter how much we are in the right and they are in the wrong, or vice versa. Maybe the only thing you can do right now is stick within your own boundaries and do what you feel you can manage right now - maybe just very brief, non emotive emails just to keep the door open? Along the lines of "what lovely pictures, great to see you all looking so happy, hope you're all set for Christmas" - you know, almost the sort you'd send to a work colleague or neighbour. I think sometimes it's just too painful to deal with the 'real' stuff - maybe for both of you? Perhaps your daughter isn't ready to deal with some of her stuff yet, so it's easier to blame you and push you away than it is to confront things she doesn't want to see? Maybe if you can just keep the door open for now, without getting into any of it, things might start to shift a little on their own.
I really hope this gets sorted out for you some time soon. It's obvious how much you care and how hard you worked when she was younger to give her a good life. I'd be very happy if my mum cared that much about me.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((Sea)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Sea,
All the talking is keeping the wound open, banging on the bruises, and not letting anything heal.
I think you need to gently withdraw from discussing who-did-what and who-was-wrong and who-is-right.
You might have to say something like, I am so glad to hear news and see the baby, and thank you for sending them. But I'm realizing we need to let the talk about feelings and blame stop since I am just recycling...so I love you of course, and permanently, and I'm happy to hear updates, but I'm not going to keep talking about past upsets and blame. I am going to take some time to learn about myself and grow. I may have to be private about it for a while so I'll be sticking to simple things.
Just as Tupp said, echoing that...
Talking isn't always good. Distance sometimes IS good because it can allow healing.
Don't be afraid of some silence, some non-communicating times. You can tell her you love her but tell her lightly! Not like you are The Castaway and she's the Only Piece of Driftwood.
You can do it. Just fake it. Eventually that bit of detachment will start to feel like healing.
love,
Hops
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Thankyou for your thoughts. I agree and I have withdrawn from back and forth emotionally charged conversation. All I can do is focus on my own life and the friends and loved ones I have.
I know everyone here has their share of tragedy and things that they could not control. I am trying to see what my responsibility is in all this too. But not too much.
Mostly I feel sad for all of the miscommunication and bad behaviour. I think I have been guilty of wanting everything to be perfect and set to music. Not as much as some people but enough. I want to quit blaming people and realize that we are all sinners. This is a bit much. I am just staying home and healing quietly. It is very hard to sleep at night.
For everyone who is suffering and whos families are in tatters, I wish you healing for Christmas.
Love,
Sea storm
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Hmmmm.......
Coming in a little late here but . . . .
In another thread, we were talking about how WE all wanted THEM (The N parents, siblings, spouses, etc.) to admit they were wrong and ask us for forgiveness.
I think your daughter has needs too, especially with the new baby. I cannot imagine how I would react if my mother had turned up at my house when my son was a newborn, and wanted me to acknowledge that she had suffered as the result of a marriage in which I had been a victim and wanted to talk about and re-hash all that crap. I would have asked her to leave, too.
Did you really think your daughter, having just delivered a child would have any kind of emotional energy to deal with your issues?
In my view, her husband, by asking you to leave, was protecting her from further hurt.
As her mother, you should have been there for your daughter, and saved your own emotional chamber pot for another day.
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Emotional chamber pot???????
Do you actually talk to people on a regular basis using this judgmental, high handed approach?
You may have a point but your delivery is cruel, and nasty.
There is a lot more to the story than you assume. But unleashing on me was probably just what you needed to satisfy your sadistic little self.
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Wow. Did that ever hurt!
I can't imagine what would prompt you to attack like that. There is a way to say things so that people can actually listen. Name calling and shaming isn't part of it.
Sea
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Hmmmm.......
Coming in a little late here but . . . .
In another thread, we were talking about how WE all wanted THEM (The N parents, siblings, spouses, etc.) to admit they were wrong and ask us for forgiveness.
I think your daughter has needs too, especially with the new baby. I cannot imagine how I would react if my mother had turned up at my house when my son was a newborn, and wanted me to acknowledge that she had suffered as the result of a marriage in which I had been a victim and wanted to talk about and re-hash all that crap. I would have asked her to leave, too.
Did you really think your daughter, having just delivered a child would have any kind of emotional energy to deal with your issues?
In my view, her husband, by asking you to leave, was protecting her from further hurt.
As her mother, you should have been there for your daughter, and saved your own emotional chamber pot for another day.
Hi, Erin.
I know you mean well. It's been a while since you've been here and a LOT has happened in your absence. In gentleness, may I suggest that you read through all of the history before responding? What I'm seeing now appears to be a lot of misunderstanding. We are all hurting and extremely sensitive this time of year as I may not be the only one suffering from PTSD from the abuse we endured growing up.
(((((((((((((((((((((Erin))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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I am sure there is something to be learned here but right now I don't really know what it is. I realize I need a therapist and have arranged to start in the new year. This is always a painful time of year for me. I am house bound and have cabin fever.
Thanks for the replies. I feel really thrashed and tired right now.
This has been extremely painful. I mean dealing with my estrangement from my daughter.
Thank you for your support. Things need to change.
Sea
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(((((Sea)))))
Time to take care of you. Yes, you're right.
I haven't quite gotten involved, to the level of you & Hops - but it's not so far off either, with one of my D's. I tried to help her; educate her; encourage her - only to have her start to act in psycho ways and eventually marry a man who's eligible for social security (she's 34). Seems she got one or more of the dysfunctional family "genes"... and that also maybe I was too quick to judge. He has stuck with her and has put himself into a father role with the grandsons. Fingers crossed - maybe she was right and I wasn't. That's OK by me.... as long as everyone is well and as happy as we hope to be.
But I'd be locked away (one way or another) by now, if I hadn't heeded my T and left her situation alone to focus on me, instead.
It will get better, hon... it WILL. Make a warm cuppa something... grab an old favorite book... and take care'a Sea...
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Thanks for sharing your experience with me. It seems that there are a lot of survivors of narcissistic parents who have children who disown them. I realize I was a traumatized parent and stumbled through the process without the necessary skills. I think my child is pretty happy except for me. This leaves me left on the side of road.
You are right about focusing on myself and getting stronger. That is all I can do. The odds of us finding a really good family therapist who can also deal with substance abuse and do it by computer is pretty slim. Now I know what the kid who is the identified client feels. Having all the blame heaped on me is too much.
I realize there are quite a few parents here who are estranged from their kids. They all sound really baffled even though I know they are smart and insiteful. I am trying to let go and let God. That is a good plan for me.
Sea
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Sea, I don't know if this will help much or not at the minute, but my sister is going through a similar thing with her daughter at the minute. I'm in that odd situation with them of genuinely knowing all the sides to the story and I can see/understand the psychology behind the whole thing, even though it looks (and feels) really confusing to everybody.
I think, at the end of the day, families are really hard work! There are so many people involved, they all have their own sets of problems/situations to deal with and I think the expectation of family is different to the expectation of friends. I think you are right to focus on your own healing. You can only cope with you, and you can only change you - if change is what's needed. I've gone through really long periods of needing to be completely alone - I just couldn't handle even normal conversation with people, it was all just too much. There are no hard and fast rules and nothing is set in stone. Take each day as it comes and do what feels best/right for you at that time.
I feel hopeful for you and your D. I think you both want to be in each other's lives - it's just not always as easy as it sounds!
Thinking of you ((((((((()))))))))))))
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Thank you so much.
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Seastorm,
I want to apologize because you thought I meant to be hurtful. I didn't. And yes, I really do talk that way to people I meet in the real face-to-face world. I'm always sort of bitchy like that, not just in cyber-world.
I admit I jumped the gun. I really empathized with your daughter. I read your initial post over several times, and it still sounds to me as if you were expecting her to be sympathetic to you because of your bad marriage, in which she was also a victim. I see there are some issues between you and her and her step mother, which have upset you very much.
The main point I intended to make was, that was really not very good timing to bring up all these issues. I still remember how I felt for many weeks after my son was born--emotional, exhausted, and drained. NO way on earth could I have coped with anything ohtr than be basics of caring for him and myself. I still believe, and stand by my assertion, that you should have waited to bring up any issue ohter than the absolute adorableness of your new grand baby.