Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: sKePTiKal on May 27, 2011, 08:20:07 AM
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I've been reading a lot again, recently. It's the only effective "tool" I have to work with, to allow my body time to rest and recover from over-work (which is sort of my compulsive way of dealing with difficult life periods). I need to have a good "story" in the book, plot that is!, character development and vivid details to capture my attention and hold it. I need to connect with or identify with at least one of the characters, some way. TV and movies simply don't engage me the same way, though movies are usually better, depending on the movie.
With my brain currently looking for new solutions to "solve" the lifelong FOO issues that have flared recently, reading also helps feeds the brain new perspectives, inputs, and even my vocabulary for talking about them; coherently. And only fiction will do - because fiction is art imitating life and the author is able to take those flights of fancy and pursue them, that most of us are too pragmatic, practical or simply afraid to pursue because of the risk involved. A lot of you are also readers, I know... so I thought I'd start a thread to talk about books/authors... but also the insights we gain from this kind of reading that can be applied to healing (which is just my predilection for using something for another purpose than it was intended).
How many here are fans of the Jean Auel "Clan of the Cave Bear" series?? I started reading these back when the first came out; I've missed a couple during my only non-reading period... and am now immersed in what is supposed to be the last one. I can relate to epic sagas.... and their mother-worship culture so reminds me of our "amazons" here.
I just finished another novel by Isabel Allende and am so reminded why she is one of my favorite authors. She is fluent in female emotional language... knows all the right nuances, emphasis, and particular cadences regardless of the setting of the novel in place or time... she distills that language down to the "universal" female/mother character. I simply enjoy reading her books for this reason. These are stories that help me appreciate the value of "just being" too. Whoever, whenever, however.
Tom Robbins - I haven't read anything of his in a while. Master of the absurd, he always makes me laugh... so when I need to laugh more, I reach for one his books. Carl Hiasson, too - though his stories have sort of a detective, mystery-thrilled farce to them and always involve the environmental theme of saving Florida from overbuilding, etc.
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Reading is how I survived, I think. From the time I could read I was described as always having my nose in a book. I have learned how to build a house - from reading. I have learned how to negotiate in business - which I applied to how I negotiate my personal boundaries with others, too. I learned about different cultures, philosophy, religion, folktales and myths, science, the earth, the great heros of the world..... and adventure. I have bemoaned the fact that there's absolutely nothing to read about women-over-a-certain age fashion and beauty (some of us grandma's aren't cut out for flour-y aprons and long hair in buns) and even proposed starting a magazine/website with another longtime artist friend. Maybe I'll suggest that to my hairdresser - he's entrepreneurial.
I think I've learned how to be "me" - and how humans beings are (good, bad, indifferent and ideally) - from fiction. And I can't forget the fairy tales... lord, how those came back & shook me up during the Twiggy part of healing!!
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'Another roadside attraction'
- if you find the body of Jesus, for God's sake don't let anyone know. Made sense to me.
I haven't read books that i would call female emotional (not that I noticed anyway). Unless you count Atwood or Fay Weldon. Not sure about 'female' emotions in novels. Maybe I read them but didn't recognise them. Maybe i don't distinguish between men and women that much.
What you get out of any book is what you understand and my understanding has been severely stunted. I understood 'Cat's eye' pretty well I think and that says a lot about women.
I enjoyed the poisonwood bible but the term 'epic saga' puts me off. I look for entertainment and an occasional glimpse of something interesting i hadn't thought about. I look for ideas well-presented, accessible. I've read some novels that were a real waste of my time and I wish i hadn't. I mean, I have 'Ugly' sitting there unread. I know the story, i've heard the person speak and I don't like her and I have already summed up her life in my mind. I imagine the book will be very very boring. One day I'll have a look, just to see if i was correct!
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I'm enjoying The 19th Wife a LOT, at the moment.
Wonderful interspersion of history of polygamy from insider perspectives, with a fascinating current mystery involving the protagonist's mother and the murder of his father.
It is ALL about women, historical and current sexism, homophobia, and all sorts of power issues.
And a page-turner.
Hops
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I've read Margaret Atwood; I think it was Cat's Eye - I can't remember! But if I started the first chapter, and had read it... my crazy brain would tell me so. Drives hubs crazy with movies - coz he likes to watch movies he's seen many times - but most movies are "disposable" for me; I remember so much of the details it seems pointless although there are a few I want to re-watch or like to watch repeatedly. Independence Day and Twister are two I can watch over & over and still enjoy. "Inception" is the latest one I would like to watch again - illusions within illusions; dreams within dreams... it's impossible to keep it all straight the first time through.
Ann Tyler is another novelist, along the same vein as Atwood... not what I'd call "womens lit"; she's more "people lit" than that.
I wonder - how much what we read really says about us or doesn't? It might be a stretch to say that it's indicative of our inner selves or thwarted "wannabees" or anything significant at all, really. But I do think we're affected by certain books - we assimilate the book into our "set" of inner experiences maybe.
And then there were books that fit with outer personalities that we grow out of ... they were significant at that point in our lives, and later on... we're almost embarassed to admit we once thought they were important!! I'm trying to think of one in that category for me... maybe "Be Here Now".
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How many here are fans of the Jean Auel "Clan of the Cave Bear" series??
I read several of the series. Loved them!
tt
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Oryx and Crake will stay with me. A lovely solution to sexual jealousy and male competitiveness in it. And so much reality.
"dreams within dreams" reminded me of another time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR792v5h66o&feature=related
and, if you were stuck on a desert island, would you choose ten pieces of music and one book, or one piece of music and ten books? That's quite difficult I think. I can't decide. Prob the music.
The books that were 'important' to me are still important and I'm not embarrassed. I tell other people to read them. And they do, sometimes.
The copy of TGBG that I have has two handwritten inscriptions (!). They say:
"To L with love A, Sept 92" followed by
"{name I can't read}, This is a wonderful book. Enjoy it. Best wishes {name I can't read} October 1995)".
I'm slightly fascinated about the latter couple. The inscription annoys me (obvious reasons) and I wonder, did the recipient read it? Did they hate it? What happened to the relationship? Etc. If only there were other clues handwritten in the pages! Now there's an idea.........
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TGBG?
Hops
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TBGB = The Glass Bead Game
Hermann Hesse wrote it; it's rather a "cult classic"...
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I really really enjoyed the book on tape, A DIRTY JOB.
If you're the type who can get things done, like housework, while listening to a book this is a very funny-entertaining choice, and there's the added benefit of getting something accomplished too: )
Lighter
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About Jean Auel's saga...
I really, really appreciate her knowledge and inclusion in the books of the herbs and plants eaten and used medicinally. After growing medicinal herbs for a long time (and I'm in the process of transplanting many now; it's whole different climate & soil here though)... I really connect to the idea that this "knowledge" was passed from shaman to healer... all face to face... passed on verbally.
It's been years since I read any of these - and I'd forgotten why I connected with Ayla. The "cataclysm" of the earthquake where she loses her parents - and being adopted into different societies mirrors somewhat, my FOO experience. She's also able to step across gender boundaries and be an excellent hunter... and defend herself.
The other thing I really like - is that not a lot happens in these books; yes, there are some big, action scenes... but mostly it's just day to day life. I like to hear that narrative and description in my mind... see it portrayed... it's soothing somehow.
Hubs convinced me to try a refurbed Kindle; we found a really good price on them. I might be reading a whole lot more, once I get it set up... (I have to make sure my Amazon account is up to date)... I wonder how many MBs the whole clan series is?? I could see myself starting over from the first one and reading them all straight through.
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I'm reading a book with no redeeming healing value and I love it so far.
This is... I don't really want to share what it is. There were things I didn't want to share with other people when I was a little kid and there are still things I don't want to share as an adult. I even have dreams about not sharing.
I guess sometimes I think if something is good it's better when I share it so it can be twice as good.....or sometimes something is good because I found it and don't have to give any part of it away to anybody else.
My little kid voice or some voice says "I don't want to share".
So there, I'm reading the best book I have read in maybe three years and I'm not telling you what it is...neener...neener...neener????
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Boat :D go for it! You don't have to share! Excellent 8)
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hahahaha!
No, you don't HAVE to share, Boat...
but you gotta know that curiosity is driving me crazy wondering what book you think is that good...
but you're in charge of the secret, so I'll just have to wait -- huh?
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Boat, you make me snicker.
Neener, neener, neener.
This might even be a self-help affirmation!
Pronounce in mirror.
At one point, one would realize one was saying it to oneself, and perhaps the absurdity would reveal that one...perhaps...is rather tired of neenerizingTM--Hops (royalties to SPCA) oneself. It perhaps being a wee bit o' self-sabotage.
Thank you for being so funny. And delightful. Stubborn, quirky, so alive.
love,
Hops
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Scotland's animal welfare charity?
Are they the guys who wanted to re-introduce wolves? :shock:
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They're the Society for the Prevention of Cutesypoo Adjective-inventing (though it was a noun)...
Well, the wolf debate...is one I might not win and best avoid!
Awooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Hops
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Hops, you have trade marked neenerizing?
You make me laugh.
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Maybe no redeeming value but healing I think so.
Romance Novels...I never ever ever read them except I was so freakin bored and there was a Nora Roberts book on a freeshelf so I picked it up and it became a page turner for me.
Full of nonsense fantasy crap. I read "Savor the Moment" it's part of the bride quartet series where four friends all get engaged in one of the books. Yeah it's pretty ridiculous but I like reading about the wedding cakes and the dresses and all that.
Thats how I justify it, it's about food and flowers not romance.
So after I read the free shelf book I went to the library to get two more of Nora Roberts books. The portly librarian started raving about the Bride Quartet books....apparently there are a lot of women that need their fantasy worlds now and then.
All the wealthy self-centered brides to be live together on some mansion compound it's practically like a little girls Barbie Doll game.
It's hideous and I like it....ashamed to admit.
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Boat, all that wedding-fantasy touches a little close to home here.
My weakness is wedding dresses and all the foo-foo (and artifice) that goes into them to create what has to be the weirdest genetic memory in women (and sometimes men) about the symbol of what a BRIDE is. For me the symbol is the exact opposite of what people "really want" from that relationship. There's usually this desire for absolute "perfection" in physical looks and attire and demeanor - the whole woman on pedestal concept again - like a goddess, really. Untouchable... out of reach...
when the relationship that results from being a bride is a whole lot more human, practical, emotional than that... and the expectations/roles of "wife" - coz y'all know there's way more than one, if you've ever been one! - is laughably nowhere as glamourous!! Maybe there's a transformation symbolized in this whole ritual, too... it hadn't occurred to me before.
I haven't read a romance novel in years, Boat. I guess the closest I've gotten is Nicholas Sparks; there's a connection to where I live in his books and MIL read them all. I wouldn't put down romance novels... because there's a need that I've noticed that these books kinda fill. I'm not sure how old you are... but I'd say Hops, Izzy, and I were part of the 60s-70s women's liberation generation. We've each been influenced by this social change, because we were at different parts of that change when it happened, age-wise. And I know I've noticed that some of the value and importance of "being female"... and what those traditional, female things even are... has changed as a result. Most of my better jobs, were considered "non-traditional" for women and I was constantly competing with and trying to prove myself to men (and never, ever cry) - until women were mainstreamed into the workplace.
Some silly commercial from the 80's kinda sums up the symbol I was trying to fit into... I can't remember what the product was, but the message was that women can "do it all" - get up & make breakfast, get the kids to school, put on the power-suit with shoulder pads out to there (for, me a symbol of carrying the word on my shoulders; over-responsibility...), impress the boss, get a raise, pick up the dry-cleaning, dinner, the dog from the vet and the kids from school... and still look fresh (and more unbelievably) HAPPY while cooking a full meal, while hubs gets home. This was impossible - for all of us, all of the time. It was too much to juggle and if any one piece dropped... well, we were a failure as women. As people, even. At least that's what I saw in that message and symbol at the time.
I think that's why I've been reading a lot of Lisa See - the inner, hidden women's circle and society in China is her topic. Isabel Allende also speaks to the "inner life" and what "female" is... the "girlie", foo-foo stuff, you know? I wanna have a sleep over and braid each other's hair, and paint our nails... and maybe someone can teach me how to put on and wear make-up without feeling like I've joined Cirque du Soleil. Part of me craves that "community of women" I think... 'coz my mom sure didn't teach me any of that and even got in the way of other people teaching me; prohibiting it...
all that personal blather is to say, that I'm sorry you feel ashamed about liking what you're finding romance novels, but I can relate to why one might. I don't see a thing wrong with it these days... and I think you might even find another "puzzle piece" for yourself in the process. Read what sounds good no matter what it is... and don't analyze it; just read it.
Here's one to look for and read - it doesn't tackle "female" head-on (the story/plot are quite good and the narrative even hypnoticly riveting), but at the end of the book... there were conclusions it was hard to miss. The author is Ann Patchett - the book "State of Wonder".
I didn't want this book to end! I enjoyed the words on the page that much.
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My weakness is wedding dresses and all the foo-foo (and artifice) .
I liked reading your comments, artifice is a good way to describe it.
IMPOSSIBLE perfection.
This morning I walked by a jewelers shop with jewelry in the window displays, beautiful diamond rings etc. I didn't really have the words to put to it like you do, but I observed the dead dehydrated little fly body that got stuck in the display and landed on one of the white satin glove props before it died....and I found some humour? In that? Then I thought to myself....am I just really a downer? Oh well.
I guess after reading about these 4 characters that are wedding planners in the series of 4 books, and each one becomes engaged themselves in the books. Wedding planners in the midst of their own romance.
What stands out after reading your comments is the impossibility of it. The books are slightly funny because family feuds break out during the weddings of women throwing champagne at each other etc.
I recently looked at some photos of a real wedding and the first thing that came to my mind was....oh...that dress is not flattering with her skin tone....and she should have tried harder to disguise her plumpness....and the photographer didn't do a very good job....and layers of criticism came out of me...not that I am in any way better but it's what my mind is trained to do. Expect some kind of perfect.
Random thoughts: Is there something inherently down about reality, and sunny cheerfulness requires self delusion to some degree.
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I devoured Catherine Cookson novels at one point.
My favorite was The Dwelling Place.
xo
Hops
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...not that I am in any way better but it's what my mind is trained to do. Expect some kind of perfect.
You hit the nail on the head, Boat - people, all of us, EXPECT the marketing message of "perfection" - especially in weddings and brides - oh, and Christmas is right up there, too. No, I don't think laughing at the fly means you're a downer... I would've found some humor in that juxtaposition too, because it's reality poking a big ole hole in the illusion that perfection is achieveable through human effort and design.
And I think part of the reason, that those criticisms come to mind too, is reality vs the message/image -- i.e., the delusion that anything can be perfect without being artificial. We start comparing... other weddings, other brides, other dresses... I don't really think we can stop ourselves. My lovely, sweet, wouldn't ever badmouth anyone MIL - wouldn't hesitate to make the most outlandishly outrageous criticisms of the cut, fit, look of a wedding dress on someone. I'd have to frequently stifle a giggle sitting next to her awful catty remarks, in church!! It's just HUMAN to think those thoughts... not some flaw or neurosis in you. It's your opinion, you know? You can have one, too! I've rather enjoyed some of your opinions and thoughts, even.
I guess we've kinda discovered another whole topic that deserves it's own thread again; the meaning, significance of "female"... and all the socially-attached and charged "roles", etc. I know that a lot the younger folk - my kids and their friends and younger don't pay any tribute to the old traditions or the marketing messages of perfection, at all. Or else they play around with it; make fun of it; try to make it more REAL, than just image. My Ds wedding dress was a 30's movie star glam, deep crimson red backless dress. She looked like something from casting for a remake of Bonnie & Clyde, since she dyed her hair that light blonde and had it styled that way. That was between the height of the Goth trend and before the vampire stuff.
But, as for that "perfection"... and how we deal with our discomfort with the dissonance of reality against the image and expectation of perfection... I stumbled across the ultimate defeat of that conflict of ideas. By accident. The most "perfect" moments I've had... where I've actually experienced that feeling of WOW it doesn't get any better than this...
Perfect is that moment when one can finally LET IT ALL BE** and just be with each other, having fun. Playing, connecting, dancing, talking... just being together enjoying each other.
***and that includes letting the Ns be Ns - and not caring anymore; paying them no mind; letting all the "planned" items disintegrate into the dregs of a party; making sure people who need a ride home, have one... but no longer trying to force things to be -- what they aren't. That's when I've felt that everything was "perfect".