Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: nolongeraslave on July 25, 2011, 08:18:34 PM
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My therapist recommended to say "Don't talk about my weight" to my mom. FAIL. That didn't work.
My mom was PISSED when I stood up to her weight comments. What gives? She said that I'm her daughter and that she doesn't have to respect my feelings and wants. I had told her that my wish to not talk about my weight should be respected. I also told her that her behavior is one of the reasons why I have Body Dysmorphic Disorder. She didn't listen to me. She even interrupted me and didn't give me a chance to talk.
I have never seen such a woman that is SO obsessed with weight. She doesn't just comment on my weight, but other people. She said "Your roommate used to be fat and she lost so much weight". My roommate was NEVER fat and was always a slim person. I have told my mom that there are many other things in this world that we can talk about-culture, news, food, history, work, life....Why someone's weight? My boyfriend seriously thinks she's one of the dumbest people he's met if weight, status and money is all she talks about.
Basically, my mom had said that my body needed to match my boyfriend's. My boyfriend is tall and thin, while I'm not and I have no desire to be so. My boyfriend loves my body and doesn't have any interest in me being really skinny. My mom's comment was implying that I must be stick thin, and that I need to lose a good 20-30 lbs. If I lose that much weight, I will be considered underweight. She then later denied talking about my weight and said she was joking. She then said "He's too skinny. He needs to gain 10 lbs." It's amazing how she doesn't understand how rude,intrusive, and contradictive her comments are. Has she ever looked at herself?
My mom then demanded to be dropped at the airport, because she was so angry that I refused to hear her talk about my weight. I had plans to show her the beautiful city that I live in, but she would rather wait 8 hours in the airport doing nothing than see a city that most people would love to travel to.
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Add: I forgot to say that she always brings clothes that are much bigger than me. When I tell her my actual size, she's shocked and says "You're not small enough for that." Uh, want to see the tags on my clothes?
I also wonder if she wants me to fit into her clothes, so she can feel that I and her are the same size. She has a habit of lending me all of her stuff-clothes, jewelry, etc.
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Add: I forgot to say that she always brings clothes that are much bigger than me. When I tell her my actual size, she's shocked and says "You're not small enough for that." Uh, want to see the tags on my clothes?
I also wonder if she wants me to fit into her clothes, so she can feel that I and her are the same size. She has a habit of lending me all of her stuff-clothes, jewelry, etc.
From my perspective, she's not seeing you as a human being or as a separate individual. She's seeing you as simply an extension of her "royal" self as if you are nothing more than her arm or her leg. :P (BLEAH!!!!) She's also continuing to be a BULLY! ("MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!") as a VERY RUDE guest in your own home no less!!! :P :P :P
God, that b*tch has got SOME nerve!!! If she demanded to go to the airport IMMEDIATELY because you DARED refuse to bow down and (in my culture, it's called "brown-nosing" so please don't get offended at the term), I wish someone had told her to stick out her thumb or take a hike to the airport. Better yet, call her a cab and tell her she's paying the cab's tab!
((((((((((((NLAS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I HATE TOXIC N's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
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Good for you - defending your defined boundary regardless of her reaction! I wonder - you didn't say - how that felt? I'd guess, you're smiling ear to ear?? Maybe not yet? - it was her choice, after all to forsake a tour and hang at the airport, you know. To get in a snit and stomp off, like a two-yr-old.
What you're describing about weight and clothes - sigh - sounds real familiar to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's one form of self-boundary invasion or intrusion I suffered through with my mom. Her twist was always buying me things or clothes that expressed what she herself wanted to be; to look like; until I insisted in no uncertain terms, that she was not to buy me any more clothes. I was in my 30s, I think -- I'd started trying to get her to stop this in my teens, of course. I finally had to go out of my way to hurt her feelings and tell her a.) the dress didn't fit and b.) I went no place to wear something like that and it wasn't my style - but how would she know that??? and c.) I put it in the trash (a heinous sin to her... someone else could've worn it; used it...)
She still doesn't know that some us of never "become our moms", you know? It's not some inescapable law of nature... but we do have to put some self-awareness and effort into it. I'd never forgive myself, for being like mine...
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I think weight-obsessed Nmoms don't generate the weight obsession themselves, but as beings constructed a certain way...are tailor-made to be hooked (and re-set the hook) by the sexist and insane cultural obsession with shape-as-measure-of-worth.
It's horrible for their children and most often doubles the crippling self-loathing our culture already dishes out to girls.
(One instance that stunned me was my accomplished, gracious and lovely friend who went to visit her Nmother in my friend's late 40s...her mother opened the door, looked at her, and reached out and yanked up the front of my friend's blouse to comment on her weight.)
Hops
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Hi NLAS
She said that I'm her daughter and that she doesn't have to respect my feelings and wants.
This is pretty much unforgivable. Period.
(((((NLAS)))))
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Hello everybody,
Thanks for the warm thoughts. I truly apologize I haven't been on here as often..My life has been crazy, even though I know it's not an excuse! I posted this, because I was sure that others may have been in the same situation. It's amazing how every narcissistic trait came out in my mom within 30 minutes or so.
I feel better now, because I did tell my mom that I have worth as a human being, that I have rights, and that I will not tolerate being treated badly. For 25 f*cking years of my life, I sat there thinking that I was sh*t. Now, I'm fighting back against her wrath.
Guest-Yes, her comment hurt. It made me think back at how badly I've been treated by others in my life. If my own mom can't respect me, no wonder I was the type of person that put up with bad behavior from others. I conditioned to think that I didn't deserve respect.
Speaking of weight, my roommate had said "You did gain a lot of weight. Do you keep it on to piss your mom off? Just something to think about." Wow, I thought my roommate was worse than my mom for a second. Mind others, my roommate is also a therapist that prides herself. My roommate also knows I have BDD, so I found it strange or just unreasonable to say that.
My therapist recommended to just keep setting boundaries. I remember a book saying to repeat "What?" (Patricia Evans on controlling people). I know my mom is getting off on me being upset and offended.
My mom also claims that all of her co-workers talk about weight and have no problem taking criticism. At all of my jobs, NOBODY talked about that stuff. What world is she living in?
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The NWomb-Donor is living on her own planet, with its own set of "reality" which exists only in her own warped and twisted mind! :P
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all of her co-workers talk about weight and have no problem taking criticism.
to me, this remark that basically criticizes you for not taking criticism...is a classic bullying, abusive mind-twist. (Oh, you're "oversensitive" -- can't count the times.)
NO.
Refusing to listen to personal unwanted criticism is a HEALTHY thing.
It's GOOD that you are saying No to it.
And...hang up the phone!
hug
Hops
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For laughs, it wasn't just me who she was condescending to. We had dinner with my partner and she told him "I'm concerned that she's dating you. She isn't interested in other men that we bring up to her ever since she started seeing you." WOW. Complete disrespect to my partner. Implying that my decisions aren't good, and that he's not worthy enough to be with me.
It's good to have someone else see her behavior. My boyfriend said so many red flags have come up and he's only met her twice.
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For laughs, it wasn't just me who she was condescending to. We had dinner with my partner and she told him "I'm concerned that she's dating you. She isn't interested in other men that we bring up to her ever since she started seeing you." WOW. Complete disrespect to my partner. Implying that my decisions aren't good, and that he's not worthy enough to be with me.
It's good to have someone else see her behavior. My boyfriend said so many red flags have come up and he's only met her twice.
Bravo boyfriend!!! He recognizes what a NB*tch she is and supports you!!!
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I have a friend whose mom and gran are both serious Ns (more so the gran) and she has serious weight problems because her mom had her on a diet since since was 4. The interesting thing is there isn't anyone who is obese in her family which means that her mother destroyed her good metabolism since she was little. As a result, she cannot lose the weight. If that wasn't enough, her dad makes fun of her weight and her mother now tries to convince to go have her stomach stapled and she doesn't want to. She generally treats her and her brother like babies (no golden child here) and does things to belittle them daily because I assume she is afraid of what will happen if brother and sister would step their foot down and claim to be taken seriously as the adults that they are (she is 28 and her brother 30).
Her brother and dad make fun of her weight (her brother once told me 'if I were a guy I would never date her') and her dad made fun of her infront of her longtime boyfriend until they broke up. The interesting thing though is that my friend is not self-conscious of her weight when it comes to the outside world (loads of yummy boyfriends line up for her) but rather that she is self-conscious when her family says something about it...
I am quite thin (5' 3'', 115 lbs) and in the summer I usually lose more weight because it's pretty difficult to eat in Greece with the hot weather. Last time I was there her mom gave me this look and said 'you lost too much weight', as in 'I don't approve of your weight, you're not what I think the optimum weight is' (none of your business lady!haha!).
I think these people use weight references to try and control.
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It breaks my heart to see how my lovely, gracious friend still has her mother's claws in her body.
Her mother is in her 80s and recently moved to this city.
My friend was doing wonderfully with self-care, fit and glowing.
Her mother arrived, she began caring for them...and she piled on weight immediately.
I really think a boundary battle is enormously important, to get weight-obsessed comments, intrusions, insults and references OUT of your self-esteem.
If that takes some Very Assertive training of the other party, it's worth it.
Hops
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I made a huge mistake and told my mom about what my roommate said. I had told my mom why I moved in with my boyfriend and how things aren't working with my roommate. Then, I proceed to say "I didn't like it when my roommate said I gained a lot of weight. I only gained 10 lbs and my clothes still fit." My mom snarked back "It looks like you've gained more than 10 lbs."
I intellectually know that my mom isn't going to give support when it comes to others talking about my weight. Yet, I still told her. My therapist said to not talk about my weight with anyone, yet I still did it. I guess the little girl in me was hoping for emotional support and understanding, or maybe I felt the need that I HAD to explain why I moved out of my roommate's place.
I don't think I'm overweight, but I'm not as thin as I used to be. My boyfriend and my doctor say I look fine as I am, but I feel like I have to prove my roommate and my mom. I was looking in the mirror yesterday and heard the "You gained a lot of weight" voice and didn't want to leave the house. Losing weight has been a struggle for me, especially when I'm prone to emotional eating. Trust me, I've tried it ALL (calorie counting, eating fruits/veggies, working out, diet pills, etc). Maybe our bodies reach a point where they don't feel it's necessary to be thin.
It's also hard when I see this roommate at work. The first thing I want to do is run away, but I can't. Maybe this happened as a life lesson to learn how to shrug and let go.
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NLS...
perhaps your current weight is more "normal" for your age/body type... and before, you were undernourished/nurtured.
perhaps what a massage therapist told me once, has some validity: she said any time she experienced being threatened, anything that caused anxiety, her weight would increase -- as protection, insulation... it would hold water weight too. And that once she relaxed, the weight dropped also.
BUT: YOU are not just your body, you know? It's important to have a body; to care for it well; to understand that it's a way for you to put the ideas from your head into action and express the feelings of your heart. When your mom says things like this, remind yourself that it's what's on the INSIDE that counts most, OK?
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NLAS,
I'm really impressed that you recognized that you violated your own boundary (the one that prohibits that topic of remarks/discussion from your Nmother). Good for you!
Just knowing that, is a really positive sign.
I think there's an inner momentum building toward emotional health going on, when you can identify -- a boundary you care about. (Even in a mistake, dropping or breaching a boundary ... that's a very good way of recognizing you are BUILDING healthy boundaries.)
Good for you!
And the weight thing? Do a lot of reading about culture. I think the answers are often not in physical solutions, but in seriously being just that observant about culture. It's very shocking but after the shock, is some protection from what is false and sick.
You have to see, the constant drone and obsession and fixation and objectification of women's bodies...then, you get angry (maybe), and then you get strong enough to define yourself in a new way.
You do not want to be one of those women who, in her 50s, is still sadly, tragically, emptily, talking about what her weight is. You really don't...
You'll be far, far down the road of living your non-slave life by then.
(I have a friend who has a weight situation. As I first got to know her, she said emphatically one day, "I do not want to talk about this. I will not participate in the usual conversation women have: "Oh you look like THIS, or THAT, or how did you do THAT, etc..." And it's been so lovely to get to know a person who has simply set a Real Boundary around that issue. It's amazing how much free time and peace of mind there is in her attitude toward herself, and it's also clear how much comfort and respect other women feel around her.)
Hops
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I know the goal is to not car about what other people think and say. I was at that point last year, but this year old habits came creeping up. My therapist and I are working on that. While you can't control what other people say about your weight, I've made the choice to NOT surround myself with people like that. Luckily, I do have other friends that respect this boundary.
Phoenix Rising-I used to the "too skinny" girl that ate like a pig. After 25, things started to slow down and I don't think that's a bad thing. I'm not a teenager anymore! What's interesting is that my mom still criticized my weight when I was too thin anyway. In a way, losing weight for her is useless.
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NLS, this is classic projection. I think its the blatent, implied, but unbelievable messages that can keep one hooked to the other's behaviour by the sheer force of disbelief if nothing else. Giving you clothes that are too big for you had an implied message of 'I want you to be overwieght', and then in the context ~ so as I can criticise you. This is a lousy relational bargain. The bargain offered to some is to step into the disowned toxic shame of the N. ... in this case her paranoid focuss on being 'fat'. This intent is quite invasive, and can get into one. Did with me, tho it was different issues than weight, but hardly matters what the specific issue is. Its a 'go mad or die' sort of option, ie take on someone elses disowned crazy destructive issues, or no relationshjip at all, which in the N paradigm is = to non existence.
Gosh, I hel forth there, hope you dont mind.
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Its a 'go mad or die' sort of option, ie take on someone elses disowned crazy destructive issues, or no relationshjip at all, which in the N paradigm is = to non existence.
River - would you mind, if I borrowed the above and started a new thread with it? Something's been percolating for me along these lines lately... working it's way out of where it's festered so long, you know? This explanation succinctly sums up what I'm slowly realizing I'm dealing with.
TIA
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Oh, definately. I'll be interested to see where you go with it.
And I can relate to what you're saying.
r.
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As useful as analysis and pondering is, I have a strong desire to say that, imn-ho, I think the very most powerful way to not be infected by Nmothers' obsession with weight is to FIGHT BACK very intentionally with VERY PERSISTENT AND POWERFUL THOUGHT-STOPPING.
You're not just fighting Nmothers, you're fighting for your own dignity and self-hood in an ENTIRE CULTURE that is obsessed with female body type, size, shape, number of pounds it weighs, how young it looks or doesn't....
The sooner, faster, more urgently and more profoundly women of any age FIGHT BACK THESE MESSAGES, whether they come from relatives, friends, acquaintances, nearly every single media source that surrounds us (NOTICE the messages! Say "NO!" Say, "I will not take this in!" Say to yourself, "I noticed that pronoun choice! I disliked that anchorperson's remark! I noticed the laughs that implied XX value...") --- or, most perniciously, from within our own heads...
...the better.
Selah.
Harrumph.
(So, as we analyse Nmoms' obsession, a gentle hope that we do not by analysing it, actually find ourselves recreating it...under the name of analysis.)
Hops
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Thanks, river!
NLS - I was the "too skinny" kid, too. That's how I got the only nickname I ever had: Twiggy. I could - and did - eat anything. My metabolism, being based on 24/7 anxiety, must've countered and burned every single calorie. Even 2 pregnancies had no effect. It's like I was a malnourished baby... could pile in the food... and never gain an ounce because what I needed was the "magic ingredient" of being truly cared for -- not resented because I needed to be fed.
But I was establishing bad nutritional eating habits, while I was "getting away with it". It caught up with me later, as my metabolism and lifestyle slowed down. And then, I felt as if I was turning into my mother... genetics, all that, unavoidably trapped like a fly in Amber. But, here's the deal:
that's not true. My DNA is not identical to my mother's... after all, my dad was involved too and he never had a weight problem. Then, there are all the recessive genes, mutations, combinations.... and as far as MY habits - well, I have to own them and not shift the responsibility for them to anyone else. Separate the problem, that is -- and therefore possible routes to a personally satisfactory solution -- from any/all connection with my mom COMPLETELY. And then, and probably only then, will I be able to make a clear, committed choice and carry through with it.
Your mom's comments and actions are invalidation, pure & simple. She's doesn't get a free pass to do this to you, just because she's your mom. (oh! and she doesn't know you better than you know yourself. Nmoms always attribute this kind "magic power" and permission to criticize to themselves... DUH.)
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Hops, not sure exactly what your reacting to here, but I felt some force-field energy there, took some time to think.
For me, deep insight, specially shared in a relationship, (like that exchange) brings life to the roots of the places where I died, its a vital part of recovery for me. Its looking to the self and internal experience. Staring at the N as if from the audience, thats another thing.
r
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Thanks, River...you're quite right, it touched a nerve.
Of course we should analyse everything about Ns -- it is about healing and survival.
Wow. Let me think.
Okay, got it:
It makes me absolutely CRAZY (sometimes :roll:) when I truly open myself to what is happening in this inhuman culture.
Because anti-racism and anti-mysogyny consciousness-raising times were the hallmark of my building a human self...and because the coming-to-consciousness about how bad it really is was truly excruciating...I almost could not stand up in the face of that painful awakening...
All these decades later, when I see that, imo anyway, this culture has become MORE retrograde in regards to females, I have an inner HOWL.
Civil rights? Improved. (Though the ERA didn't pass.) Equal salaries and opportunity? Not hardly. Sexual exploitation? (Welcome our new vocabulary word: "
Trafficking.") Porn? Screensaver for 10-year-olds.
So....I think when I hear women start down the path of ruminations about what they weigh....it triggers that old shock and grief.
All that said, of course it's a real topic to analyse. It just makes me grieve.
I wish women were equally represented in world government and could change the world for peace, stop despots, and help children not starve to death.
Thinking about an Nmother aggravating and intensifying that cultural obsession with controlling the female body reminds me of why I think the world doesn't work. Self-loathing disables us from fixing the world.
(I'm sure the fact that I work for a sexist boss, 70s-style, also made me react.)
Thank you for noticing my strong reaction and giving me a chance to ponder it more.
love,
Hops
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I've been at mom's for 4 days now. It's been better than past visits, but her N-ness always creeps in at the end when you least expect it.
Just now, my mom said "Your sister-in law says that you don't talk at all. She's more mature than you. You need to have some feelings for your family. Your boyfriend will get bored of you if you're so quiet." This may sound innocent to an outsider, but this is clearly an N's undermining disguised as care and cocern.
She also said my brother was upset that why I didn't go to a yoga class with him and that he's trying to motivate me. I texted my brother and he said he was never upset.
Ever since I landed in my mom's house, I've been very sick. Throwing up out of nowhere, stomach pains, etc. If I'm sick, I can't go everywhere. My Body Dysmorphic Disorder has also been very high. I didn't talk much during lunch with my family members, because I couldn't control obsessing over my weight. I know it's wrong, but the thoughts are there and I just wanted to pull my skin off.
I told my mom the stuff she said isn't appropriate and she yelled at me saying "how are you going to talk to your kids? I can't say anything to you! Maybe your boyfriend can't say anything to you either."
I'm glad I'm leaving today.
The only good thing is that my mom hasn't mentioned anything about my weight.
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NLS - it sounds like you were miserable for 4 days. And "allergic" to your mom, to boot.
You poor thing! Be extra kind to yourself the next week. Think about whether it's possible to choose not to put yourself in that situation again. Why or why not. Or if you could visit - but stay in a hotel (my "instant boundary" strategy) - to have some downtime to regain your inner balance. I shudder to remember the last time I stayed in the same house as my mom... and she refused to acknowledge, much less respect my boundary of time to think, by myself. I think she would've followed me into the bathroom, except I locked the door.
If you insist on and enforce your boundary, it is possible to protect yourself... and if not train the Nmoms... at least get them used to you having your own space. My "allergy" still hasn't gone away... except when I'm not around my mom! :D
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Thanks, River...you're quite right, it touched a nerve.
Of course we should analyse everything about Ns -- it is about healing and survival.
Wow. Let me think.
Okay, got it:
It makes me absolutely CRAZY (sometimes :roll:) when I truly open myself to what is happening in this inhuman culture.
Because anti-racism and anti-mysogyny consciousness-raising times were the hallmark of my building a human self...and because the coming-to-consciousness about how bad it really is was truly excruciating...I almost could not stand up in the face of that painful awakening...
All these decades later, when I see that, imo anyway, this culture has become MORE retrograde in regards to females, I have an inner HOWL.
Civil rights? Improved. (Though the ERA didn't pass.) Equal salaries and opportunity? Not hardly. Sexual exploitation? (Welcome our new vocabulary word: "
Trafficking.") Porn? Screensaver for 10-year-olds.
So....I think when I hear women start down the path of ruminations about what they weigh....it triggers that old shock and grief.
All that said, of course it's a real topic to analyse. It just makes me grieve.
I wish women were equally represented in world government and could change the world for peace, stop despots, and help children not starve to death.
Thinking about an Nmother aggravating and intensifying that cultural obsession with controlling the female body reminds me of why I think the world doesn't work. Self-loathing disables us from fixing the world.
(I'm sure the fact that I work for a sexist boss, 70s-style, also made me react.)
Thank you for noticing my strong reaction and giving me a chance to ponder it more.
love,Hops
.. Hi, was away on hol and wondering what was happening here! Interesting what you said here. All that narcissistic values about appearance stuff, and society is riven by it, it can be a killer. It ignores the human soul, as you say.
It makes me absolutely CRAZY (sometimes :roll:) when I truly open myself to what is happening in this inhuman culture.
.... me too, tho my trigger points would be slightly different.....in fact everything that arises from irresponsibilty and consumerism, which is just about everything.... yeah, its too overwhelming huh! ... that phrase 'dont get me started.....' comes to mind !
I think theres a difference between being trapped in the ruminations, and having the deep feelings like you had, and wanted to get the thinking and understanding together with the feelings, like a sort of determined chasing down the roots of exactly what happened, with a strong IN ORDER TO factor, that is, understanding the depths in order to free oneself. But I do know, it can become a terribly preoccupying trap. I got like that over Sam Vaknin, my first stop of discovery, learnt a lot tho.
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Regarding weight... and with respect to Hops' sensitive button... and the healing we're all trying to do...
Societal impacts and subliminal messages are probably way less important than the matter of acceptance, being allowed to be "one's SELF" and acknowledged as different from mom... and yet still loved dearly sans criticism, projection of anything, or judgement. Including self-criticism, judgement, impossible expectations, and maybe even self-respect.
I'm a good 20 lbs overweight for my height and age. Not more than that. With my height and the right clothes, I can create the illusion of looking "decent" for my age and the normal body changes... yet, I desperately want to return to the days of a flat tummy, strong muscles, a more willow-y silhouette... because that is who I still SEE in my mind, when I see me. That is who was attractive to men - and I liked the way I looked. Of course, that physical me, existed when I was still not being nurtured emotionally and felt constantly be-seiged by threats (and my own anxiety).
Once in a relationship where I began to get that kind of nurturing - I let that happen with food, not exercising, cocooning too. Like being hooked up to an IV of emotional nurturance... I LIKED it and was insatiable... more, please! :) Really, I don't blame myself for this. I understand it... I understand the need. One does eventually get "full"... it's finally enough. And while I understand that I'll never be a healthy 110 lbs again... and that it's not fair to blame my excess weight on my mom's genes... or resign myself to looking physically "just like my mom" (that would be self-cruelty, for me)... I can take my inner need to control my physical being and turn it toward the goal of eating better nutritionally, eating in a way that works to help reduce this "insulation" I've accumulated - like more frequent small meals, and beginning the task of physically pushing myself to be more physically active... all while reducing my dependence on nicotine simultaneously... so that my outside can begin to represent how much better I feel about myself on the INSIDE. In a way that's quite personal, is ME... and not my mom... I can use that "control" that got out of hand without boundaries... and put it to a healthy, productive use for myself. And STILL keep the emotional nurturance flowing...
while I figure out what the right balance is, between "work" and "acceptance of what I can't change" is for me. NLS, I think you've got a lot of control over your body - it's a useful tool; you just might want to try applying it a little differently -- in a way that satisfies your inner "YOU" and no one else. I believe you can do this... and not let your mom throw any monkey wrenches in it. It's not HER body, you know. She doesn't own you... and you aren't going to 'hurt' her via hurting yourself; you won't make her happy with you via hurting yourself, either.
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Haven't had time to read every post here but wanted to comment before my 4 year old discovers I'm on the computer. :lol:
My Nmom comments on everyone's weight. She, herself, is at least 35 pounds overweight at only 5'2" and wears shorty shorts, ripped off sleeve hoodie sweatshirts (the kind that teen girls wear, the "Juicy" brand) and little flowery flip flops. Nmom's buttocks hangs out of the shorty shorts "hot pants" and zips the hoodie down past cleavage level exposing sagging breast and the beginnings of her large tummy. She looks crazy.
Yet, Nmom calls other women "fat ass" and "fat bitch" and "fat and lazy."
My Nmom wanted to wear a backless, low cut, slinky dress to my wedding and I kindly suggested an elegant sophisticated dress that was absolutely gorgeous, it was strapless but had a sheer, beaded wrap that would go around her shoulders, and she said, "You just want me to look all covered up in a mummy suit, I don't want to look old!" Uh, hello.
Bear
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Oh dear! the best intentions ....
Its all rather excrutiating with Ns :?
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I don't want to look old!
Oh Bear... it's true you know. She really doesn't want to look old. I'm going through this "wedding mom" dress search myself... and the yak-yak-yakking in my head is beyond hilariously insane, in a Joan Rivers sort of way.
Here's the deal. It's damn near impossible to find clothes that flatter older bodies - in the cut, the fit & style - that is "current" and doesn't make a woman feel as though she's "elderly" and decrepit and not worth dressing to look "good" anymore. I simply am not at that point - and at 83 with terminal cancer, neither was my MIL. Women over 50 really don't want to wear the Juniors styles... we're only responding to "fun" aspect of the clothes... and not feel like we're dressing like our own moms... or grandmas.
We don't want to dress sexy in a flaunting sort of way; that's kinda embarrassing at our age. But we're ain't dead sexually either! A little discreet temptation will at least get us to try it on. And the flour-sack, made by Omar the Tentmaker styles... that look like we have even more to hide physically than we do... well, lets just skip those completely. So every clothing choice becomes an unsatisfactory compromise. SIGH.
And I gotta tell ya, even when someone my age seems oblivious and does wear styles meant for someone 20 yrs. younger (or more)... I can't help feeling a little compassion mixed in with being embarrassed for her. It's just really tough to find clothes after 50.
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I don't want to look old!
Oh Bear... it's true you know. She really doesn't want to look old. I'm going through this "wedding mom" dress search myself... and the yak-yak-yakking in my head is beyond hilariously insane, in a Joan Rivers sort of way.
Here's the deal. It's damn near impossible to find clothes that flatter older bodies - in the cut, the fit & style - that is "current" and doesn't make a woman feel as though she's "elderly" and decrepit and not worth dressing to look "good" anymore. I simply am not at that point - and at 83 with terminal cancer, neither was my MIL. Women over 50 really don't want to wear the Juniors styles... we're only responding to "fun" aspect of the clothes... and not feel like we're dressing like our own moms... or grandmas.
We don't want to dress sexy in a flaunting sort of way; that's kinda embarrassing at our age. But we're ain't dead sexually either! A little discreet temptation will at least get us to try it on. And the flour-sack, made by Omar the Tentmaker styles... that look like we have even more to hide physically than we do... well, lets just skip those completely. So every clothing choice becomes an unsatisfactory compromise. SIGH.
And I gotta tell ya, even when someone my age seems oblivious and does wear styles meant for someone 20 yrs. younger (or more)... I can't help feeling a little compassion mixed in with being embarrassed for her. It's just really tough to find clothes after 50.
I wish there were a fashion designer, somewhere, that would LISTEN to us WISER LADIES!!!!
Bones
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Bear-
My mom is in her 50's (but tells everyone she's in her 40's) still shops in the junior section. She will give me her clothes thinking that we are the same size.
It makes me mad why she lies about her age, because people have asked if my older brothers (in their 30's) are even her real sons. They think "How can a 44 year old woman have a 31 year old son?" Duh! Because she's lying about her age.
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Phoenix: I hear ya. I realize that the fashion world is harsh as it is "youth" driven, well, it's seems that way to me at least. And I myself, have difficulty finding decent fitting clothes even while I'm in my 40's. But that's just it, I have to have the clothes that fit right on my body in an effort to flatter my figure, what's left of it that is, but Nmom has no idea that the clothes she wears are too small, skimpy and many times, inappropriate for the occasion. It's like she has no concept of her own body and what other people can see, i.e., through her see through blouse, mini skirt creeping up the back and little floaty dresses that look like lingerie. As a woman, I agree, it's painful in those dressing rooms trying to find SOMETHING that looks good on us and makes us smile at ourselves. It's hard.
Perhaps I have it all wrong here, maybe Nmom WANTS people to notice her butt hanging out of the shorts and her breast through the itty-bitty tee shirts, instead of the notion that she has "no concept of her own body." Perhaps she actually thinks she is the hot-ticket and can wear these things.......hmmmm.
On that note, Nmom would do something weird when my brother and I were young. Ready, here goes: Nmon would walk around our house with her shorty-shorts unbuttoned and unzipped all the way down to the crotch area where her pubic hair could be seen. Mind you, the shorts were super tight and probably could not be either zipped up buttoned up. Her belly would hang out over the tightness of the unzipped shorts and she would come to the dinner table this way while my brother and I would just gasp in horror and be so embarrassed. She did this ALL THE TIME. I can remember when we would go to the beach and she would take the bottoms of her bikini and wedge the rear up the crack of her buttocks to make a G-string/thong sort of thing. She would walk around the beach like this in front of friends, relatives, you name it.
So she's still doing this!! Is this weird or perhaps someone just really proud of her body and I am the one judging?
Bear-
My mom is in her 50's (but tells everyone she's in her 40's) still shops in the junior section. She will give me her clothes thinking that we are the same size
So great. LOL! I can relate soooooo well.
Bear
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HUH! I was just thinking about this again - I've been shopping; looking for clothes to wear to the big, hip city of Baltimore for D's engagement party... and next year, her wedding... and probably a few other occasions, as well. Hubs and I are developing quite the social life these days. I've never really had one - for him, it's a return to a more youthful lifestyle. I want to look good, stylish, put together... but I also am deliberately trying to keep it understated 'coz I just can't allow myself to compete (even unconsciously) with my very tall, slender D who is the co-star of her own life-movie moment.
Bear: I think you're on to something and both directions are probably right simultaneously. A.) she has no real understanding of what her body looks like now - she's only seeing the memory-mirage of years ago reality... and B.) yes, she wants to flaunt it... it's an aggressive statement of "love me - love all of me"... and because of A, she absolutely doesn't understand how repellant that is to others and isn't embarrassed. In a way, this is an Ns way of refusing to participate in reality... they are just "that" special, you know.
NLS... my condolences re: your mom's lack of aging gracefully and then thinking you also are exactly the same. It's bad enough that she indulges herself (and doesn't see the harm) much less -- !! -- try to push that onto you also. RESIST... by not accepting her gifts and trying to find your own style; your own comfortzone. Here's an idea: go to a large store with clothes you're attracted to. Try to enlist a friend or salesperson (both?) to help you try on lots of different kinds of things... the idea is that you don't know what will flatter your body, so you're going to try on lots & lots of things until you look in the mirror and see something that "works". That's what stores and salespeople are for, really. I don't like to try on clothes... so I try to make it more fun, because something can look great on a mannekin or a hanger and I love it.... and it's just totally wrong on my body. Even a simple sheath dress - some I can wear really well; some... well, let's not go there!! And when something looks really absurd on me... I have a really good laugh. I've tried on some beautiful diaphonous, metallic little shrug type jackets... and I look like a fairy-oompa-loopah!! LOL...
tt: yep... I know that kind of persistent "style". And I think the difference here... is that your friends have found a way to keep that style... and still accommodate a changing physical reality, tastefully and modestly. Heck, even us older ladies can get away with showing a flirtatious bit of cleavage here... a little leg or back there... innocently, stylishly and tastefully. I've known for awhile that maintaining both the body and the clothes to put on it takes time and effort; even for the lucky ones who are tall and thin and can eat anything without gaining an ounce. Now that I'm a lot less "lucky", I find I finally have the time... and while I have my all-time fashion favorites... I think it's time for me to experiment; break out of tried and true...
and if I have to - make it myself. I never allowed myself to use a dress form... explore altering or fitting when sewing. I just saw one at a clearance outlet. The bridesmaids for DIL's wedding were my first fumbling attempt at fitting different body-styles. They looked just fine - in person and in the pictures. I was winging it. I have a whiz-bang modern miracle sewing machine (which is, I find, already obsolete but perfectly adequate for me). And I have a pattern that I want to try... now... on to fabrics! Full speed ahead...
it's the only solution to being able to see in my mind what I want... and not finding it in stores or online. And I absolutely can't buy clothes online... because I need to try on... feel the fabric... and even sizes vary so much from brand to brand that I'll wear a 10 in one brand... all the way to a 16 in something else. Maketh me crazy....
and well. Winter is on it's way... that's sewing season for me. Time to put up or shut up. If I stumble across something, I'll be back with a full fashion topic, of it's own.