Relationship/s

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Lighter. I really appreciate that.

I think what happens when we have a disagreement or "off" phase is that M becomes overwhelmed with anxiety. And then, he begins bits of what seem to me like passive-aggression. I don't want to overreact, because 90% of the time he's not that way at all.

Example: If we've had a misunderstanding or difficult moment to work through, and I've retreated for a bit, he will absolutely flood me with messages about his overwhelming love for me, repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating it....until it doesn't feel like being loved so much as badgered.

I mean, when someone says "I love you" and your honest response in that moment is, "You've told me that..." something is amiss.

I've tried to explain it. Yesterday that came up (the frantic repetitions). I explained to him that sometimes hearing it too often wasn't helping. So as he began to email me early this morning, he began including at the end of his message: "Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...." It had that whiff of something I don't like reading in an email.

So I just wrote: What is Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo?

He said, it's what I want to say but am not allowed to say so I find another way to say it.

I wrote back that to me, it seemed as though if someone says they're feeling uncomfortable and you invent a code that just lets you do what you want anyway, that's not progress. Something like that.

I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill but I have pretty sensitive radar for when email is going toxic. I tried to explain it, then just asked that we talk later today and stop email for now. I hope he'll be able to understand.

(I got into horrible spaces in an email relationship years ago that made me forever cautious about relying on it for actual connection. I told him that we're okay, but since our connection had been tested recently, I think it's important to be clear and careful when we write each other.)

????? Does that make sense?

Hops

[lighter]

It makes sense, Hops.

I'm wondering if a good T,  specializing in codependence, wouldn't be helpful for you and M to see together, and apart.   

It seems like you've hammered out how you feel, what your comfort levels are, and what you want more, and less of. 

M needs help learning how to tolerate his discomfort with your boundaires, which spirals into distress, which spills  into your in box.  It's a process.  he won't master it quickly, but I'm hoping he has support enough to move him through with economy of motion.  For his sake, and particularly yours.

Maybe a shared T, weekly, for while?  And he keeps his T, and you keep yours.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

I think you're right, Lighter...the issue really is codependence.

I might start by asking him to bring it up with his T...but I'll keep in mind the possibility of joint therapy too. It was a big step that he was receptive to his own T and he's still in early stages with that, so I'll give it some time.

Meanwhile, I can read up on it again myself just to strengthen my notions of how to react but not over-react.

M is so good for me, in so many ways, that I ain't throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Thanks for this helpful perspective. You're spot on.

Hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Thanks, Lighter. I really appreciate that.

I think what happens when we have a disagreement or "off" phase is that M becomes overwhelmed with anxiety. And then, he begins bits of what seem to me like passive-aggression. I don't want to overreact, because 90% of the time he's not that way at all.

Example: If we've had a misunderstanding or difficult moment to work through, and I've retreated for a bit, he will absolutely flood me with messages about his overwhelming love for me, repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating it....until it doesn't feel like being loved so much as badgered.

I mean, when someone says "I love you" and your honest response in that moment is, "You've told me that..." something is amiss.

I've tried to explain it. Yesterday that came up (the frantic repetitions). I explained to him that sometimes hearing it too often wasn't helping. So as he began to email me early this morning, he began including at the end of his message: "Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...." It had that whiff of something I don't like reading in an email.

So I just wrote: What is Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo?

He said, it's what I want to say but am not allowed to say so I find another way to say it.

I wrote back that to me, it seemed as though if someone says they're feeling uncomfortable and you invent a code that just lets you do what you want anyway, that's not progress. Something like that.

I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill but I have pretty sensitive radar for when email is going toxic. I tried to explain it, then just asked that we talk later today and stop email for now. I hope he'll be able to understand.

(I got into horrible spaces in an email relationship years ago that made me forever cautious about relying on it for actual connection. I told him that we're okay, but since our connection had been tested recently, I think it's important to be clear and careful when we write each other.)

????? Does that make sense?

Hops

Makes sense to me, Hops, and it would drive me nuts as well (if that's any consolation!).  Do you think he doesn't hear what you're saying (and by that I mean, does he miss the meaning of 'I need some time to myself' and not take it to mean you mean complete radio silence) or does he know what you mean but just chooses to ignore it?  I'm just wondering if being very direct with him might help ("I need some time on my own.  I'm staying home till Wednesday, please don't contact me before then")  Or that might be what you're already doing and it's making no difference.  I'm just thinking that some people don't get nuance or subtlety (or layers - some people genuinely can't understand why saying "I love you" could be annoying) and need a much more clear, direct instruction.  You know him best, obviously, they're just thoughts popping into my head as I read your post (and I'm sure you've thought of all of them already).  You could just buy a very good book on co-dependence and whack him with it when he's being annoying Lol xx xx xx

[lighter]

The reason I thought joint T might be an option was..... you seem to be having trouble getting M to understand.

Then I remembered.... Hops can relate concepts better than anyone I know.  That's not the issue.

The issue is deeply help within M's childhood, and internal world.  Having a professional, who deals with codependence,  might get M where he's going more quickly. 

My own codependence can hardly stand M's fear, and panic.... I see that now.   

It's support, for both you and M, on this journey, and I so want both of you to find your comfortable groove. 

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Do you think he doesn't hear what you're saying (and by that I mean, does he miss the meaning of 'I need some time to myself' and not take it to mean you mean complete radio silence)
This is possible
or does he know what you mean but just chooses to ignore it? 
This is what I fear
I'm just wondering if being very direct with him might help ("I need some time on my own.  I'm staying home till Wednesday, please don't contact me before then")
This is exactly what I need to do next time
Some people genuinely can't understand why saying "I love you" could be annoying) and need a much more clear, direct instruction.

Thanks, Tupp. As ever, you have zoomed right into the actuality of it.

I think he batters me with verbal romantic pyrotechnics partly because the way his mind/lifelong studies/language intensives work, they are "real language" to him. (Like having flowery speeches and dramatic medieval poetry pumping in your brain all day long). And, partly--I don't really know whether this is true, to be fair-- perhaps he thinks it gives him "cover" when he's actually not connecting with me, but substituting word-fog. Or, because he doesn't empathize with what it might feel like to be on the receiving end of word-fog. (Empathy has become a concern.)

Recently I said to him when he was holding forth: I have trouble sometimes not feeling as though I'm listening to an authority figure who's dictating knowledge to me, and it makes me feel resistant. (I'm glad I did it that way, starting with my own non-angry feelings.) He said: I don't think I know any other way to talk to people; I've been doing this for over 50 years.

What's happening now is that we had another crisis. I've identified something helpful to me. We are SO compatible so much of the time that the times I've felt very upset with him have felt like big shocks and I've responded with massive anxiety and upset. But I recently identified for myself that there's a pattern--his over-the-top, bull-in-a-china-shop personality doesn't cause me distress EXCEPT when he's stomping over personal boundaries. The time's he's upset me most were:
--he walked into my relationship (lack of) with my D and began toying with "plans" to reach out to her without asking, consulting, requesting permission from me first.
--he presses into my personal time and space when I've retreated to rebalance myself (as above, though Tupp helped me realize how I need to fix it)
--when I was in the ER and had specifically stated I did not want him to come back to the cubicle until I was ready to see him, he manipulated his way and bulled in anyway (ignored my expressed personal wishes as a patient). Later, his support meant everything. But his ignoring my wishes at that time was very upsetting.
--A minor one, but it pushed my T's buttons as well (as "paternalistic' which, if one unpacks it, does involve a lot of personal-boundary-ignoring). He makes statements to my friends like "I want to thank you for all your care of Hops." It sounds completely benign and his conscious intention is...but I'm not his child. It's the "thank you" that felt uncomfortable. If he'd said, "I felt glad that Hops had so much support from a friend like you at that time" or something similar about how HE felt, it wouldn't have landed weird. But the way he put it, it came across as "Thank you for taking care of my woman..." which just doesn't sit right. It's not the best example of his paternalism (his encroachments with my D are strong ones).

This last one is the same theme--personal boundaries. But it's difficult. I don't want to discuss details, methods or plans. Y'all know he has a physical vulnerability that makes him very anxious and affects intimacy. I'm just rusty. NEITHER of our physical vulnerabilities concerns me. But something else does, so much that it's hit me quite hard lately that if it doesn't get better, it is a deal breaker.

He doesn't listen to me. He is either SO anxious to "get 'er done" (which I have compassion for) or, so indifferent to what my wishes are, that my statements including No, Don't, Not There, Not Like That...have to be repeated three times before he stops what he's doing. Last time this occurred I was so upset I got up and went home, and burst into tears the minute I walked in the door.

We've tried talking it through since, and I've talked about it in detail with my T, and this question has formed. When I say--BOUNDARY (and have to repeat it endlessly before he changes behavior)...is he modifying anything because he realizes inside himself "I don't want to do/say/touch that way because now I understand Hops doesn't like it" OR because "I will obey this stupid rule/request just because I'm desperate not to lose her, not because I respect or empathize with how she feels."

I'm not sure what the answer is, and I'm feeling sad and dark about the possibility it's the latter.

I'll keep trying. It is work, we both have baggage, etc. But the night I got up and left he had actually shushed me when I was trying to tell him how it felt, what I needed. "Shhhhhh! Shhhhh!" That set me off and my ignored discomfort (emotional as well as physical) sent me out the door.

Sigh. I still love him and want this relationship to work, but for me, this was a big moment. We've tried to talk it through since and I still feel he's not hearing me.

Another thing that came up with the T is his lack of asking me questions about myself and listening to the answers. He does talk about himself nonstop. I can get him to listen when it's very important or urgent, but it's an exhausting routine of "i need you to listen to this, please stop interrupting, please let me finish, I need to say this without being interrupted, please don't start touching me while I'm trying to get this out as it distracts me and I lose my thought..." etc etc. It's exhausting and I'm concerned that if he doesn't learn to (or care to) listen I will internally disengage.

Been feeling a bit of that lately within myself, and it's making me sad. I'll face it if this is a hole in the boat that can't be patched, but I sure am hoping it's repairable. This relationship has brought me back to life and given me excitement about the future. I am hoping it won't come to letting go, but I will survive if it does.

Thanks for listening,
Hops

PS I think a lot of his boundary-bashing is clueless entitlement (raised as a golden boy in a Latin culture) and a lot of it is anxiety. A ton. He's acknowledged how deeply anxious he is. And at heart, he is decent and kind and sentimental. It's just that in these moments, I don't care what the cause is...his behavior is impacting me and he seems oblivious (or my fear is, uninterested?) in its impact on me. That's where I'm beginning to fear that underneath all the massive volume of flowery words, there's no heart connection or real empathy. Dunno if that can be learned....

[sKePTiKal]

Awwwww Hops. Hugs dear.

I can imagine this feels scary. But maybe you can get a little stubborn and assertive, and say: this is what I require to feel comfortable. And release the outcome? You need to be able to explain and be understood - not just heard - about your worries with the word fog and real, felt connection and empathy. Yes, that means you might scare him too. Those are the risks involved with being open and vulnerable, which is what is needed for true intimacy.

I'm fumbling around with similar stuff too. And I have the same "word" problem as M does. LOL. Scared Buck into thinking I was mad at him last night. And I wasn't. Just trying to spit out coherently things swirling in my head and (terribly) aware that I'm also going through a big "anniversary" re: Mike at the same time this new stuff is going on. I wasn't very coherent or clear, until this morning. Seems that's the best time for me, in the day, to talk about important stuff. I think we sorted that out, but I cost Buck a good night's sleep.

This is turning into a beautiful fall out my way. Maybe you guys could benefit from a weekend change of scenery?

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Amber.
You're right, this will require speaking clearly and confidently about what I require to feel I can keep on progressing. Being listened to honestly, with evidence afterward that I've been heard. It is scary but unavoidable, for an honest and healthy connection to grow. We're mostly-healthy in most major areas, but not the relaxed, close emotional connection part. The anxiety is just too huge. His triggers mine or mine triggers his, or we're in a mutual firing squad at times. Not wanting to be, just the ways we're wired.

I can so imagine how the Mike anniversary is affecting you. I'm glad you honor and acknowledge and are tender about it.

The one-year anniversary of M's wife's death is tomorrow, and I'm glad we'll be together then. I wonder if some of his recent "spinning" has been influenced by that. He doesn't bring it up often but of course it's working in his unconscious. It's definitely not the only reason for his insensitivity, but makes sense that it's one factor that might be helpful for him to talk about if he'd like to.

He mostly likes to go on and on about how everything is wonderful, perfect, fabulous, astonishing, he can't imagine life without me, he wants me forever, let's hurry up and find a house and marry and it's all (for him)....URGENT.

I see urgent as code for anxious, so my heels are digging in to put on the brakes.

Appreciate your response and understanding mucho mucho!

Hugs
Hops

[lighter]

OK, Hops....
I think M isn't in his adult right mind when he spins like that.  I think the little baby grasping for mama is in charge, and baby can't wait or feel OK until mama is back within his grasp or view,  kwim?

To figure that out,  I can't imagine doing it without a professional who can talk him through it when you've lost your patience, when he's in an appointment hearing HOW important this is and WHY he needs to do A B C and D... even if he's feeling anxious, so he can move OUT of that place, and into a better place.

This isn't just about you feeling better.  HE'LL feel so much better once he's done some work, and figured out new strategies, and pathways, IME. That's always the way.  Through the abyss, and all that.

There's my two cents.   There's no direct reasoning with baby, and you're definitely one to use reason, and seek understanding.

Baby needs to feel heard, understood and cared for before baby can consider listening and giving attention to ANYTHING besides his own selfish nurturing little baby needs, IME. 

I think it makes sense you were attracted to him, and him to you.  Now, how to make the most and best of that attraction, while limiting the hard sharp pointy spots. 

Love isn't enough.  There needs to be comfort, rest, and ease, along with action, affection, and cooperation.  Figuring all that out, without triggering abandonement issues, will be quite the trick.  If any one can do it, you certainly can.

Use your mommy voice to get him into a good codependene T who can work with you both.  He's a motivated man.  Steer him in a postiive direction, and hold your ground.

OK.  NOW that's my two cents over: )

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Aw Hops.  The thing that really impresses me about you is the way that you look at things so truthfully and honestly, even when you know doing so might break your heart.  I think just about everyone else I've ever known would be glossing over the things you've mentioned because the allure of marriage/comfortable retirement/companionship in later years is so strong (and understandably so) that a lot of people would just put up with the things you've mentioned.  I'm glad you feel able to acknowledge them to yourself and give yourself time to think and talk about them.

I think what's difficult to work out (with anyone) is whether the way they're behaving is being caused by something (and is therefore something that can be worked on) or if it's more just an aspect of their personality (which I think is much harder to shift).  I imagine he's often had to hold court, either at work or socially, and I think we can all find ourselves slipping into a certain kind of mask (flowery language and romantic ramblings).  I suppose the question is whether he can take the mask off and be a bit more 'real' with you.

The not being heard and his need to take over (including the not really paying attention during intimacy bit) might be the part of 'man' that he's always been expected to play - in charge, taking control, running the show.  I think for a long time society dictated that men did the doing and women followed along - in all areas of life.  Meeting a woman like you is probably/possibly quite a new thing for him - someone who thinks deeply, expresses herself clearly and goes home when she's not happy is quite possibly all new territory for him.

None of which helps - we can rationalise and intellectualise and analyse but ultimately we want our Hopsie to be happy, and heard, and respected.  The not listening during sex thing would have really triggered me and, like you, I would be wondering if he was just placating me until the next time.  The other situations you mentioned are all things that would have really bothered me.  Someone taking charge during a time of crisis when you're unable to cope is one thing, but taking charge when there's no need to would bother me.  As would saying thank you to people for looking after you   I can fully see that there would be women who would find that really sweet and who love the idea of having a man in charge and looking after them whilst being sweet to their friends.  And then there are women like Hops (and the rest of us) who don't like it, don't want it and don't need it.

It's very hard.  It's tough to figure out other people's motives and reasons, especially when they probably don't actually have that insight themselves.  I am hoping that it's resolveable/fixable/manageable.  But also glad that you're taking an eyes wide open approach.  I expect his wife's anniversary is having some sort of whoo haa with him at the moment, which again doesn't help but maybe it means things will calm down a bit.  Is he still visiting his own T? xx

[CB123]

I had missed the Latin element somehow, Hops. Is he from Spain? Is English his second language? There can definitely be some communication issues, if so--especially if he is a really good English speaker, its easy to forget. Also there are deeply embedded cultural issues, especially male-female ones.

CB

[Hopalong]

Hi ((((CB))))--

First, Everybody--thank you so very much for these posts. I am feeling the need to sit with them a bit, and reflect more deeply after seeing M again this evening. I'm going to be listening, and speaking very honestly. And I feel as though I'll know more after that, to post more clearly in response, tomorrow.

CB, your question is easier! M looks totally Irish but he was born and raised in Costa Rica. His father is the Latin side, his mother the Irish-Italian side (I keep mixing them up, will advise). His family history is a huge mix of Spain, Italy, Cuba, Ireland, etc. He's a beautiful mutt.

But definitely influenced by Latin perceptions of manhood, so that was a good thing to mention. Intellectually, he's offset not all but a lot of that. His mind is pretty amazing, and I find him more open to new information than any other man my age I've met. I think he may have a genius IQ. Dunno if I mentioned it, but he was the youngest full professor in the US at one point. (I keep referring to his relentless ambition as though that was the reason but, in fact, he is also so brilliant that he deserved that status.) He's politically as liberal as I am, was a total rebel in his youth (in Berkeley!), so I'm not dealing with conventional macho. I think the paternalism and stuff comes partly from the Latin influence, yet more from the fact that his family, going way back, was very wealthy and influential. I think it's class that has given him some blind spots. He does try to see other perspectives but was in a gilded bubble of money and elitism his whole life. He doesn't know as much as I do about questions of power and privilege, because he never had to deal with them.

I can see him fighting it off, but the slipping comes when he walks into a tense situation or something that seems to need solving, and his sense of mastery ("master"fulness) rises. I don't even blame him for that. He has a portrait of his grandmother that's literally 3 feet high in his LR. The sense of legacy, the pressure of it (and unwittingly, the companion entitlement) goes waaaaaaaaay back.

I have to say I admire him for his reactions when he bumps into it and I can see it dawning in a given moment. I actually think if we can keep on, there might be a revelatory journey for him ahead. He keeps telling me how "astonishing" it all is with me, and I've reacted mostly to his exaggerated language, without realizing that he sincerely means this. He IS astonished! I'm off in the weeds examining psychological stuff, not astonished at all about seeing emotional things for what they are, and he's trying to deal with an upended world view.

I feel calmer about setting more boundaries, holding them in peace, and just letting him play out whatever reaction he wants to. Partly because I talked about it so much with my T, and partly because of so much understanding (and insights) I've received here....I do feel like investing some more patience and effort.

No conclusions yet, but I also want to be conscious of not throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Will let y'all know tomorrow how it's going, and thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for being here.

Love,
Hops

[lighter]

I'm glad you're not feeling urgency around this, Hops.  Just put it out there, do what you can, and see what happens.  No sense filling yourself with what ifs and worst case scenarios. 

In fact, I think holding more curiosity, and fewer expectations is a positive resting position.  Just bc he's spinning, when he spins, doesn't mean you have to.  It also doesn't mean he'll spin like that forever. 

::nod::.

[sKePTiKal]

Appalachian mountain men kinda have that same male-ego blindness, Hops. It helps a little if you can accept that as part of the charm, while still setting your boundaries and maintaining them. It's not a terrible thing (for me anyway) to have an opportunity to explore more of that traditional feminine side and see how it feels at this stage of my life... because Buck has the other stuff all figured out. It's not that he won't let me participate (I remind him a lot) - just that it's easy for him to decide, design & construct.

But what I wanted to point out to you is that the first anniversary IS difficult; and IMO, it needs to be acknowledged, honored, time taken out to appreciate what was and is no longer. It's not sufficient to completely bury those feelings in activity, words, or social interactions. IF it were a genuine relationship at any rate - some aren't and the "loss" is actually more of a "good riddance". Some people do very well for long chunks of their life in a superficial relationship. I'm not one of them. If nothing else, that one-year mark becomes a milestone to a chapter in M's personal history and still needs those moments of appreciation. It does start to get easier after that... and a lot of the emotional energy can get released to potentiality at that point.

I think time operates differently in the emotional world, if you want to entertain sci-fi explanations. But then, I have no way to validate that theory - it's just my personal experience.

[Hopalong]

Thanks MUCH, everyone.
We had a relaxed evening after a goofy session alone in the pool wherein I gave him a standup (swimup) routine explaining a reality TV show, a really stupid one about romance, that I freely confess I enjoy. I was spoofing all the characters ("contesticles" as the men are called by one witty blogger), and miming stuff, and M got hysterical. Nothing makes me much happier than making someone laugh, so I'm tickled he finds me funny. It was a great way to relax before going back to his house for dinner.

I remember thinking, I'm just going to relax and be myself this evening, and I did enjoy it. He was calmer too. And served me another awesome meal, and we drank wine on the deck at sunset. He'd had a tough week at the U. and it was nice to chill out together.

Lighter, your scathing but truthful depiction of his infantile side really sobered me. It was reality and a kind of stem-level depiction of dependency. Not my favorite moments with him but I'm still drawing those boundaries. Pretty comfortably. I enjoyed a friend's company downtown this evening, and then my own later, just watching the golden light and happy people enjoying the amazing weather, and pooch. I sat over my dinner at a favorite cafe and just savored it all. M had mentioned what he was having for dinner and I'd had no expectation of us being together tonight, and later he still had a way of upping the ante, conveying anxiety--a later call to double check about the next two evenings, etc etc. The man does CLUTCH. He constantly makes the next plan and the next plan and the next, and I react by refusing to firm up all the details for casual get-togethers until the day of, because I feel hemmed in by having absolutely every encounter on the calendar. Formal things or things that include others, sure, we can book those. But on a day to day basis I want the freedom to retreat and he'll have to get used to it. I'm trying to work on just maintaining my own security/maturity and will find out over time if his improves. I liked what you said about spinning. Good term for it.

Amber, he's not acknowledging the anniversary much--I brought it up very tenderly. Or, he started deflecting it (reminding me he "had her blessing" to find someone) and I said it's not about me, I was referencing that you lost her a year ago. Then he said, there's not a day that goes by that I don't think of her. I feel glad when he mentions her and sometimes I hoist a toast to her in the clouds.

And I hear you about his more traditional masculinity. I'm a bit different though in that traditional feminine roles or rituals do tend to make me extremely uncomfortable. I'm feminine looking but inside, preoccupied with power systems, always have been. I'm happy you are comfortable with the yin and yang of you and Buck, because every couple is unique in that balance.

CB, I think he can be acting in a cultural way that feels natural to him AND also have anxiety neurosis! His own work in therapy, and time, are all that can be done about the anxiety. But the cultural stuff...he seems always open to talking about that fairly rationally (apart from a few knee-jerk things he struggles to change). His  brilliant intellect really does mean that he's not stuck in concrete, because when I challenge his worldview he genuinely loves that. He calls it "transgressive" "so smart" etc etc...so I think that's where a lot of our growth together takes place. We talk a lot about the world, and cultures, and ideas, and patterns in humanity, etc.
That's the biggest compatibility we have, being able to connect in the area of ideas.

Domestically, M is an insecure drama queen who is dying to formalize and finalize our life together, at which point I think he'll feel more secure. But I'm not jumping at it until I know he's into the growth and the work and won't go inert once wifey's in place. All these critical comments aside, the man really does love me, and after 25 years without, I'm grateful.

He was creating drama today of me going back to the medical center to get another cardiac monitor (same test needs repeating as results were ambiguous for afib). He kept saying, please call me and let me know how "the procedure" went. Are you okay? Etc. And I was just going to get a big electrodes patch thingy stuck on my chest. No procedure, no crisis, just a prosaic clinic visit to get that, nothing else. Exact same monitoring I did before. So I was NOT feeling anxious or in crisis mode or fragile, but he was going there. Felt a little irritated but just didn't buy in.

I told him earlier this week I'll be having a gum graft procedure coming up. He calls me back, intent on telling me I'll "have to have a driver that day because of anesthesia" and he had no idea. Just leaps to the most dramatic scenario in which he will be my essential white knight and rescuer. I think that's how he sees love.

Anyway, all this is just ins and outs of learning how to be with this man. I feel calm tonight, kind of in "don't sweat the small stuff" mode, and I think that's good.

He also gave me excellent eye contact, looking really vulnerable, and I said gently, "How 'bout that" and I sensed some new light had gone on. He's still worth it.

hugs and thanks again,
Hops