Author Topic: Checking In  (Read 8520 times)

Twoapenny

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #60 on: July 13, 2024, 02:18:25 PM »
You know, Tupp....it hit me last night.

What if...
I/certain others
hold an unconscious belief around
self care = doing for others?

I honestly get an endorphin surge when I do for others, think about it, plan it.....it occurred to me to do for others
after l was on the road 4 hours,
trapped in a truck stuffed with stinking trash after cleaning the lake house for 13 hours on top little sleep....running up stairs and down stairs.....many many very many many stairs....
Occurred to me that doing for others, in a time of intense fatigue/frustration/disappointment/problemwith housekeeping....to do for others, rather than self and I was focusing on self care!!
I realized....
part of my self care ritual is doing for others😬😵‍💫😵

Others.

Not myself.

Holy guacamole, Tupp.

I found myself

Yep, I definitely think doing for others can do really good things for ourselves.  I guess, as with everything, it's balance and whether what we do is appreciated, reciprocated - needed?  I think I can tip into enabling without noticing sometimes, and doing things for people that they could do for themselves.  Much less than I used to but even so, it can be a hard line to tread.  Doing really fun stuff for people can be great - organising a party or wedding entertainment, helping decorate a house for a homecoming, that sort of thing.  And doing helpful things when people really need it - yes, definitely.  I suppose it's the difference between that and being someone's emotional dumping ground, or endlessly cleaning up their mess (of any kind), or trying to save them and so on.  I guess it's all keeping a balance and keeping an eye on ourselves.

Funnily enough, I was thinking to myself today that I'm wondering if I need to limit my human interaction to half an hour at a time and see if that helps, because I just find myself feeling too tired after I'm with people to do anything else.  We did our early morning swim this morning which is very sociable and I do like seeing the other people there, but the chit chat was, I think, enough for the day.  But my son had a get together today and after catching up with everyone that was there one of the mums came back to mine for coffee.  We chatted for a while, then went back to collect our respective sons, chatted with everyone again before saying bye, and then had a long chat with a friend on the phone.  It's all been nice, friendly, amiable, no drama or unpleasantness, but I' m so tired now I'm struggling to even think about doing my evening routine.  Even watching a film feels like too much, I put my book down because I couldn't concentrate.  Something to ponder xx

lighter

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2024, 01:14:56 AM »
Sometimes time goes by in chunks.  Not linear at all.  And.... it's too easy.  No.  It's how things have always been to feel swamped and overwhelmed, but that's changing.

Maybe it's already changed.

To stop and notice.  Discern and choose.  Right from wrong.  Good from bad.  Worthy from the rest.  To let go of what's not important enough....to me.

To discern important enough....for me.

Nothing is wasted.

I am where I'm supposed to be.

To believe I'm home, inside myself, and live that truth.....while discerning and choosing and being so very kind to myself.....
kind to my family without being dishonest or  disingenuous. 

Empathetic truth......sans judgement feels like sunshine and "the way" just now.

Putting down responsibilities for other's feelings.....

Picking up self care.....not to model it, but bc it's a job.  It's my job.  I don't need a reason or permission or the right time or feelings about it.

It's just ok.  Just as it is. And breathing is what I do.....to break the patterns and find the form of what I'm creating....
instead of what I've had/done/been.

I can be free, creative, joyful....and I'm not seeking out social interactions.  I'm not lonely.  I'm exhausted by very little socializing. I get that too, Tupp. There's only so much time,attention, care and energy to give.  It's limited and limiting.  Know thy limits.  Honor them.  Choose wisely.  Again and again.

Back to breath, discernment, empathic honesty and radical acceptance....
releasing outcome.....
saying NO.....
holding boundaries I've set, sans regret.

It's a lot.  It's different to live with choices and return to choice when it slips away.  It comes back again. I can bring it back.  Choose it.  Again and again.

What's important...?  What deserves attention?

 Learning to put things down if they're not important.
...esp if I'm carrying them, have been carrying them....intended to carry them mindlessly....felt compelled or obligated or right carrying them.

It's a sea change.

It's learning not to focus.....on the obvious....on the default settings when fearing them and denying them make them stronger.

When reactivity resolves....drops away or is just a blip then retreats.....
that's the stuff.
Lighter











Hopalong

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2024, 11:50:18 AM »
Introversion is a normal and natural way of being. Often mischaracterized, but comes a time one stops trying to fit one's unique square peg into a round hole.

Good for you for noticing the drain and thinking about ways to manage it for your wellbeing.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2024, 01:58:05 PM »
Hopsie, yes, I think that's very true.  I think I still need to focus on and prioritise what I need/want to do before I start thinking about socialising or interacting too much with people.  There are things that don't seem like much - the mum who came back for coffee was here 45 minutes?  No more than that.  But I know I'd have felt better in myself if I'd come home and spent that time tidying up and getting the evening meal ready.  Instead of getting home and feeling behind, then spending all afternoon on the phone by which time the day was a write off and nothing else got done.  It does affect me, I just think I do better when I stick to my own routine and everything in my little world is as I like it to be.  It's not reflection of other people being wrong, in some way - too much, too demanding, anything like that.  I think I just need more quiet and down time.  And to remind myself of that throughout the day.

Lighter, yes, nodding all the way through.  I find that, because I've had to do so much on my own over the years, I'm quite capable in a lot of different situations, much like you are.  Then also having a child who doesn't fit any of the pigeon holes available and home educating him which again is very different to the school system and I feel I've got quite a wide range of experience in different areas and an ability to cope, because I've had to.  I think, therefore, that I find being around people who don't cope with a wide range of things, very tiring.  I do seem to know a lot of women whose husbands are quite childlike, in the sense they don't deal with their own problems, they don't think of others very much, they couldn't just take charge for a week and deal with the kids/house/pets and so on.  So the long talk I had with a friend yesterday was tiring because for some reason I can't seem to listen to someone else's situation without being affected by it.  She wasn't complaining or criticising, she was just talking through what's been going on in her life.  But as I listen I can see how selfish and self absorbed her husband is and how accepting she is of that (it doesn't even register with her that there's so much more he could be doing but he leaves her to get on with it despite the fact she's ill, and expects her to prioritise what he wants over what she needs). I can see it as she's talking; so many ways her situation could be improved if her family members did more.  Not that she even wants them to.  So she's not asking for suggestions or thoughts, I don't say or suggest anything, it's different people in different situations and not my business.  But it still leaves me feeling exhausted.  I'm going to have to ponder that some more as I'm not quite sure how best to manage it.  It's definitely my issue rather than someone else's xx


lighter

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2024, 05:25:13 PM »
You care deeply, Tupp.  You want your friend to suffer less, bc you're kind and can see how easily the h could manage it, if he cared to.  Apparently, he doesn't OR friend can't/hasn't articulated well enough/at all.

I didn't know how to ask for help or speak about difficult needs, once upon a time.  It's learned, in my case.  Likely hers too?  Not sure.  Not yours to solve.  Not mine.l, though I like to understand what I can.

Your friend gets something out of her situation, perhaps...unfortunately, IME.  I don't think she can see how her situation could change...not with any clarity, bc of her beliefs around her situation.

And if she could see it....all the ways you see.  If she began making changes....I imagine her new choices would bring some energy to your interactions.  Reminds me of Hops and her Poet friend, a bit.

Reminds me of Cowgirl, next door, who wants to "chat" over wine.

Ummm....no thank you.  I listened for a while, but there's nothing there for me and that's ok.  If you're getting something out of the time spent with this friend.....sans expectations she'll change.....find ways to spend time more joyfully or maybe spend less time. 

I wonder at the ease I used to be cornered into listening to situations, like the one you're dealing with.  It's easy to just state I have to go, then go.  And I do. 

I think part of the angst is feeling the need to help or at least impart som help before stepping out.  A phrase that sticks or jars the listener out of their default settings just a bit.

That's dropped away too, mostly.  The saying "we are where we want to be" makes sense now, bc I can glimpse my own unconscious beliefs and how intractable they "felt" when really I was in my own way.

I understood it, but couldn't identify the mechanics or solutions, even when people who care pointed them out.

I guess getting sick of feeling sick of being where one doesn't belong is part of learning to see around mental corners, finally, and assessing what's truly there.  If one can stomach it or not.

You're very nice and simply saying no to coffee or listening to a friend's suffering feeeels wrong, bad, upsetting....like your physical energy is loose and easily pierced by others....affected.

I think I pulled mine in, very tight and tucked against myself.... it's not easily pierced or affected....not like it was. I haven't thought about it in a while, but I remember doing it.

Not just anyone can get at it, like they used to.  It's one thing to say..." let me know how that works out for you," while biting back dread and advice.

It's another to feel it and not say it.....not even feel the need to say it, IME.

I can listen to friends upsetting situations, give my opinion if they ask and reassure, but it doesn't get in like it used to, bc I manage to stay outside their suffering.  I don't go down their rabbit hole either them anymore, at least I usually have a choice, now.

And there's the responsiveness vs draining reactivity.....managing to stay above their emotions and not feel them too....I think.

A couple years ago, or so, I just couldn't sit and take listening to faffing...lost my chill.....blurted out truths.....("Your need to be right all the time is so tedious")and that was a mixed bag.  One friend dropped away and it was for the best, imo.  Did he benefit?  I don't much need to know.  It's ok if he didn't.   

Some people in my life learned to think before speaking.  That was better, for the largest part.  People learning to be more mindful, even if it's a by product of my setting boundaries and not the goal, is good, IME.

People can judge and feel victimized and go away OR begin looking at their part, looking at mine.....sussing out the history and noticing other choices between us. 

Accepting coffee with your friend/s drains you might just be what it is, if all things remain the same.  Attempting to change the dynamics, insert energy and joy is a possibility likely requiring more energy until it gets better, IME.

I kept my Moss friend, bc we share lovely interests and recognize similar vulnerability and overdoing for others ...in each other.

Lastly, discerning between allowing intuition and "feeling right" to lead.....most of the time.....
but hushing it when self care/boundaries and new habits are involved in a new trick I'm mindful of.

Lighter

Twoapenny

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2024, 02:50:55 AM »
Yes, yes and yes.  I'm not sure why I keep repeating the same thing myself.  I'm aware that I need to connect much more deeply with my own self and my own situation.  I'm in my head a lot of the time and I look for things to distract me - things online, scenarios with other people, other people's problems.  When I should focus my time and energy on me.  But - I also know that deep down I'm very sad, very lonely and very scared.  I worry about my tendency to depression and that connecting too deeply with my real feelings will take me into a place that I find very difficult to get out of again.  But at the same time I feel it's what I need to do, to move forward.  To be more real, and attract more people into my life who are authentic about their feelings, straight talkers, relationship sorters and generally people who, if they do talk about difficulty in life, are talking about it in order to figure out a way forward, rather than just talking for the sake of talking.  I kind of know what I need to do but at the same time pull myself back from doing it.

I read a book years ago, The Continuum Concept?  Do you know it?  Long time ago now, it's about the way in which traditional tribal groups live communally and, as a result, are much healthier and happier than we are in our separate boxes having to travel miles to see our friends and loved ones.  One of the things she talks about in there (I think she was /is a psychologist?) is how the humdrum jobs are far less boring and tedious when done as part of a group.  The women would work together all day, getting the boring but necessary jobs out of the way together and talking and laughing as they did so.  That's part of the problem I have, I think.  I have to separate socialising from getting things done.  I'd be much happier sitting and talking to someone if everything I needed to do was done, but when I know I'm just creating more work for myself by not getting on with it it frustrates me.  Hmmm.  Need to think about that some more.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #66 on: July 16, 2024, 08:36:06 AM »
When you're the only person doing things, it IS more important that you get things done than socializing. I think that's something drilled into me, and with Buck & Hol taking over some things... all I'm left with is socializing and it's not that nutritious for me. Feels empty, ya know?
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Twoapenny

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #67 on: July 18, 2024, 06:29:15 AM »
When you're the only person doing things, it IS more important that you get things done than socializing. I think that's something drilled into me, and with Buck & Hol taking over some things... all I'm left with is socializing and it's not that nutritious for me. Feels empty, ya know?

Skep, you are a genius.  The last 25 years that I've been battling depression, anxiety, stress, exhaustion and all other unpleasant things, the advice from doctors, therapists, self help books, every article you ever read online and everything else is all about socialising, getting out and about, self care, me time and all the rest of it.  But do you know what, that's never worked for me, and it's because of what you've said.  I'm the only one doing the work, so it is more important to get that done.  That's exactly it.  That's the self care, much like Lighter saying her self care is figuring things out for other people. Sitting listening to people gossip, talk about celebrities, moan about their husbands, does nothing for me.  But getting everything done so that life is calm, orderly, has a few treats built into it and I don't wake up stressed in the morning and having to rush about - that's what works.  Why did I not see this before?  You've hit all the nails on all the heads lol.

With that in mind, I woke up early yesterday, as I often do, and instead of faffing about not sure whether to do yoga, try to get back to sleep, get some paperwork done, sit and read, and generally waste a couple of hours not making a decision (which is what I normally do), by 7.30am I'd done an hour in the garden, the washing was out on the line, the evening meal was prepared and I was sitting down to breakfast with my son.  Carried on in that busy way all day and didn't think about self care or socialising.  Did some yoga in the afternoon, went for a swim in the outdoor pool in the evening (and enjoyed the chit chat with the ladies there) and in between, did some sewing for the first time in I don't know how long.  I think I've always been looking for some sort of existential shift to occur, to make things better?  But really it's just about getting on with what needs doing, isn't it?  Wow.  Content and the house is tidy :)  Lol x

Hopalong

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #68 on: July 18, 2024, 08:18:48 AM »
I'm so glad I read this exchange today.

Thank you, both!

I will read it again. And again.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #69 on: July 18, 2024, 11:58:43 AM »
I dunno about genius. I have lived a pretty challenging life, learned things the hard way, got back up, dusted off and kept putting one foot in front of the other. I think about things... from way outside the maelstrom where it's quiet. LOL. And Hol & I talk a LOT about things. She's been doing another inner work growth spurt I think. But it's not always easy or pretty. And she helps keep me moving.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2024, 08:44:21 AM »
Amber:

You're right.....
"feels less nutritious" is real.

Tupp, it IS community and fellowship in daily life, in part, missing.

I noticed it as a young first time wife...the absence of Grandparents and parents and children engaged in meal prep and cleaning headstones and farming together.  That's Young Lighter's "home."  That was her first life experience and it went away age 7yo.

My youngest talks about the suburban dessert and I never understood but Ive contemplated moving over her comments many times.

Hops, I'm with you and reading this through again and again.

I think I've been attempting to BE the family my children don't have.  I didn't understand it.  I felt it. 




Twoapenny

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2024, 04:31:17 AM »
I think that's the difference between lived experience and taught experience though, Skep.  Practical reality instead of ideology.  In theory socialising is a good idea (as you say, Lighter, we don't have the sense of community and connectedness that we used to).  But when it causes stress because you've got a load of unfinished jobs at home (or anywhere else) - nope, not going to work.

The other thing I've realised as I've been thinking about all of this is that I don't really have, or meet, people in my real life who inspire me.  Who live a life I want or crave.  I do get that online, you guys inspire me, there's a couple of off grid forums that I read and I love reading about people fixing up their own power and stocking up for the winter.  Couple of people I follow on social media who do things I enjoy (and don't get to do myself).  But in real life - truth be told, most people I connect with in reality are kind of needy in some way.  They're not great problem solvers, they've no real desire to do much other than book a holiday once a year (and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, it's just not for me) and most of them interspace our conversations with subtle put downs and actually raise my anxiety levels with their frequent 'what if' questions.  And I've only really noticed all of that properly over the last few days.  There's a big difference between the people I interact with online and the people I interact with in real life.  And I think that's down to me only showing my real self online, where it's safe and I can have complete control over the situation.  Mmm.  Think that's going to have to be my next project.  Interacting with humans in real way.  Eek!  Lol

lighter

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2024, 12:00:13 PM »
Tupp:  What you said about engaging in daily chores, as a happy community, talking/laughing/sharing makes so much sense regarding more joy, more time, more fellowship and less anxiety/loneliness and lack of time.

My very best friend helps me do big projects and I've always helped her with big projects.  It's understood and joyful.  Esp when the work's done and we're cooking,creating and cleaning together.  Enjoying the season...fires it Halloween House build, etc.

I like to work.  I like being busy.  I like working with others.  Just socializing makes me feel uncomfortable and stressed.  Everyone helping makes the work light 🚨 r at least lighter.....makes time and space to relax, kwim?

Working together......getting projects started, moved along and finished WITH others includes a deeper relationship and common understanding of priorities, IME.

Friends feed us and we feed them, IME.  In many ways....."nutritional" (I like that term, Amber)interactions means different things to different people.

Twoapenny

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #73 on: July 26, 2024, 12:43:59 AM »
Tupp:  What you said about engaging in daily chores, as a happy community, talking/laughing/sharing makes so much sense regarding more joy, more time, more fellowship and less anxiety/loneliness and lack of time.

My very best friend helps me do big projects and I've always helped her with big projects.  It's understood and joyful.  Esp when the work's done and we're cooking,creating and cleaning together.  Enjoying the season...fires it Halloween House build, etc.

I like to work.  I like being busy.  I like working with others.  Just socializing makes me feel uncomfortable and stressed.  Everyone helping makes the work light 🚨 r at least lighter.....makes time and space to relax, kwim?

Working together......getting projects started, moved along and finished WITH others includes a deeper relationship and common understanding of priorities, IME.

Friends feed us and we feed them, IME.  In many ways....."nutritional" (I like that term, Amber)interactions means different things to different people.

Yep, I think all of that is right.  I think where I'm noticing a change in me is the difference between friends who want to talk to find solutions, move forward, or even just to vent if there's nothing that can be done - and people who I think just like to talk about themselves with no real desire to do anything.  It's the lack of doing that I think is just not me.  Obviously there are times nothing can be done but in the situations where change could happen in some small way - I find the endless quest to avoid doing anything exhausting.

Twoapenny

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Re: Checking In
« Reply #74 on: July 30, 2024, 03:56:08 AM »
I've been trying to really 'tune in' to myself.  Quiet, no thinking, no aiming to feel a certain way, but trying to connect with myself and pick up the feeling that's already there.  What keeps coming up is fear.  Deep seated, deeply embedded and, I suspect, hard wired into me from a very, very young age and at the root of everything.

I keep seeing two different versions of myself in my head.  An unhappy, lonely, middle aged woman, slowly giving in to her health problems and battles against the system/injustice/fixing the lack in her life.  Sitting on a couch, eating biscuits, watching television, 'accepting' it is the way it is.  Appreciating the small things that do make her feel happy and content but slowly giving up the hopes and dreams she's had since childhood.  Getting consumed by it all and eventually just giving in.

The other version, truthfully, is a bit of an old hippy.  Loving life, fit and healthy, wearing crazy clothes, loving time with friends, travelling, growing a garden, reading, learning, laughing.  I rarely laugh any more, it's true, I'm rarely in situations that are funny and when I do laugh it's usually because my son says something funny.

Of the two, the happy hippy is the one I want, no question.  It's a no brainer, I think most people would pick happy over not.  But my habits, choices, decisions often lead me to the sitting lonely on a couch version and that's what I've been trying to figure out.  I change the way I do things every few days, always thinking this time, I'll get on top of the unhelpful habits and do more of the good stuff.  And if always works for a few days, but then I drift back to the old, unhelpful ways (or at least, they're not helping me become happier or break out of the path I seem to be on just now).  And I think it's fear that does it.  The unhappy version has grown from fear and i feel like she's as reluctant to let me be myself as my mum always was.  It's like I've created another version of my mother to keep in my life and it's as scary breaking free from her as it was getting away from my mum.

So fear is what I'm working on at the minute, but very deep seated fear.  What I've noticed about myself recently is that when i wake up in the morning, I'm usually busy straight away.  I immediately start doing something, whether it's a helpful thing or not is a different issue.  But the last few days I've woken up and just lain there, doing nothing but asking myself how do I feel?  And I work through which bits ache and the fact I feel tired and the feeling of overwhelm that's always there.  But underneath what comes up is fear.  I feel frightened.  And then I think I spend a lot of mental energy creating anxiety inducing scenarios in my head, without realising I'm doing it - problems, arguments, need to do lists, what people are thinking/saying/doing about me.  I think it takes me away from the underlying feeling of fear and focuses me on something else.  It's interesting but i think my sister and I do the same thing in different ways.  Her external life is chaos - house, car, money, relationships etc - but she's pretty calm in her own mind.  My external life is very orderly day to day but my head and my overall feelings about my life are frantic.  Funny, isn't it?  I think I don't stick to a change in habits because it works.  And that makes taking away the fear managing framework, and that's when it feels like Mrs Stay At Home On The Couch starts to panic and starts shoving biscuits in my mouth again.

Anyway, so my current project now is to try to work on the very deep seated and underlying fear.  I know two things that worry me about how much is still buried away is the impact of what happens when you do get in touch with how you really feel and why you feel it - how it affects life on a day to day basis - and that sense of losing control.  I can't control how it comes up, how much of it, what it will do to me.  But equally I don't want to be lonely on the couch forever and I think this is the bit that needs to be worked on.  I'm thinking it has to be through connecting to it, trying to keep stimulation to a minimum, sitting with it when it does come up and figuring it out.  More time doing very little and less time doing too much.  Might have changed my mind tomorrow lol x