Dumb question

[sKePTiKal]

I probably already know the answer, but it's not coming verbally for me yet.

What do you call it, when a person communicates that they would think, believe, be, do something different than you would... and isn't satisfied to accept that we are different people and therefore allowed these differences... but instead insists that one must be/become more like them?

(more on this later - I'm interested in y'alls vocabulary for this kind of thing. Merci in advance.)

[lighter]

 Is this disagreement about politics or something else?

Is the other person disdainful and belittling when insisting you change your views?

[Hopalong]

disapproval?
shunning?

...come to mind....sorry you're experiencing this, whatever the cause. I don't think humans have a wide range of how to remain connected while disagreeing, these days.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

I'm looking more for a word that conveys the behavior pattern. Yeah, there's a disagreement involved but it's more about basic commonsense ways we protect ourselves in an ever crazier & more iffy world. Granted we don't have a lot of that around here...

but since S is gone & she's trying to get out a little more and go places, it's rather important. This is only the latest example; it IS a definite pattern across a wide range of subjects. I'm not so concerned about the difference of principle or opinion, as I am the phenomenon of "you need to be more like me". I'm not in my mid-40s anymore. Not only is my world view based on experiences and times she's never had, my choices about everything at this stage of my life are for me and don't have to meet anyone else's criteria. What's right for me, obviously isn't for her. I wouldn't expect her to be like me either. Yeah, there is enough in common for this to work most of the time. But we have a completely different set of "needs" and chosen ways of "being".

Does that help clarify?

[Hopalong]

Sounds like torturous talks my D and I had before she moved on.
We both wanted to be more right and more logical. Understood, respected.

It was utterly dead end.

The thing was, how intensely for a time we each held to our positions because to accept the other's point of view would be "losing" or, worse, threatening our identities. Then as her illnesses got worse, I had to draw new boundaries and not try so hard to keep her safe or help her learn. She was absolutely near-violently allergic to any advice OR KNOWLEDGE from me. Nothing was neutral. I realized that, like her Dad, she took pleasure in hurting me and was desperately angry that she hadn't individuated or succeeded in life. Her education, work, health and romance dreams were ashes. Then it all escalated until she left.

I don't know what notes your conversations with Hol are sounding in HER ears, but so wish she had a trusted counselor and other local relationships (like friendships). Sounds like her friends are great, but not nearby.

Could be projecting, gaslighting, loads of terms, or just could be....flailing, and Mom's authority (in presenting knowledge) makes her nuts.

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

I'm more confused, Amber.

But here goes.....
Maybe you'd have the words IF Hol's distress and treatment of you weren't so distressing to you.

This is rhetorical....
what fears come up when you think about settting boundaries with Hol and holding them? 
What's the worst you picture?  How realistic is that.... when you think about it in a calm state? 
Do you believe you're controlling what happens to Hol through your actions and responses when communicating with her?

And...

It's not helpful to judge this situation with Hol in a negative way.  Maybe this is the time and place where you find a better way to communicate with Hol, put new habits in place and stop experiencing chemical dumps, anxiety and fear? 

I'm always  amazed how many solutions pop up if I can see something without judgment, where no solutions presented previously.

If you and Hol were discussing how to be safe while dating.....
I've noticed the habit women have of bearing their throats (fig.and lit.)way early in relatiomships, out of habit/bc they're culturally taught to do it, for whatever reasons.  That was really shocking to me,. but so terribly obvious when I got some distance on it. The saying "boundaries will keep us safe" is so true, but what if boundaries are new and difficult to hold IF one can put them in place?  Worth reflection, IME.

I suspect most people aren't aware they hold unconscious beliefs around vulnerability being desirable or a reqirement of dating. 

At first I thought it was Hol asking you to go out with her and engage in socializing with her.....but I don't think it's that.  You have a new life with B and it's rich and focused.  You're entitled to that, as an adult. 

If it's politics or prepping..... global warming.... pollution....... IME, doing some research into her beliefs will give you all the information you need to address her points and refute them with facts in a way she can understand, if she can understand.  I hope Hol can research your beliefs to better understand and address your points and facts, bc that would be fair.

Repeating talking points, heard from talking heads reinforcing beliefs, doesn't help anyone understand, IME.

Respectful debate requires both parties do the work to undersand the other's position whether it's a HS debate team, building a legal case or discussing heated topics with loved ones, IME.

I assume and Hol share positive intentions. 

Maybe it's time for some rules around discussions....
no raising voices
finishing a point before moving to the next
no foul language or name calling
no attacking motives
agree to take a break and come back if things get heated, but agree to a time and place.

Keep breathing, Amber. 

Lighter

[Hopalong]

If anyone had a foolproof method for turning down the heat on family tensions and could bottle it, that stock would soar.

Only thing I know of is to gently stop talking and gently disengage and gently go away.

For me the stop talking is hardest, because brain wiring. I used to say I could "beat a dead horse into dog food." Not very elegant, but there was some kind of OCD-ish thing going on.

RELEASING is the hardest part of letting go. The outcome will be the outcome, whatever I do.

I feel not very helpful at the mo' because your question and description didn't quite help me see what's happening...I'm a detail person when it comes to people and emotions, not theoretical.

I do know that in the past, you've been Hol's soft place to land but also hard place to throw things at.

Counselor, counselor. Don't be her therapist...trust her to figure out her own life and understand it's beyond your direct influence by now. You'll still be her remarkable mom.

hugs and comfort,
Hops

[Twoapenny]

'Overbearing' is the word that comes up for me, Skep.  Although I don't know if that's the same in English English as it is in American English.  Whatever's going on I hope it resolves quickly.  Doesn't sound nice, especially without B there just now xx

[sKePTiKal]

Tupp, overbearing comes the closest, I think. A single word or short phrase to describe a behavior. I'm hoping the word just occurs to me out of the blue, I guess. Dominating was as close as I got - but it's not quite right. The behavior does come from a motivation of genuine caring & concern; but it doesn't have space for age/life differences or personal choices... that may exist for now, but are not permanent.

This is less a question about relationship conflict or struggle, altho this is what highlighted the question in the first place. That struggle is going to work itself out within it's normal cycle, or one of us will get too busy in our own lives to spend much time together. That's been the ebb & flow of how we work. And the behavior I see, may be temporary too... as she adjusts to single life out here and faces herself & issues on her own.