Help-cycle repeating itself!

[Marta]

There we go again. I have cut off contact with N mom for the past three months and she is writing nice and loving notes. Wish you very happy holidays for this year and all the ones to come. Wishing you prosperity and all your dreams come true. I feel and sense real love behind her words, and makes me feel and think that all the abuse I felt was just a figment of my imagination. Intellectually I know otherwise, but that doesn't do a fiddle. I just want to be a little girl again and go hug my mom and tell her I knew that she was just kidding all along. It was one big misunderstanding, and now we are OK. I am coming home.

This is how it has been over the years for over and over and over and over and over again. Yes, when the up phases come, I can never resist them. I feel that I am stuck in this cycle. This time my head may prevail over my heart re. resuming contact, but that does not get me unstuck. When she is nice, I completely forgive the dark side and can't help but say to myself that it was nothing. My own overreaction, for she IS able to love.

What do I tell myself? How do I deal with this phase without completely giving in emotionally?  How do I reconcile the love that may be hiding and lurking there with the demonic desire to sadistically hurt and destroy me? Which call do I answer to? I feel that it is really an important hurdle for me to get over and somehow this slap-and-kiss thing is connected to recurring depression I have felt time and again at variou spoints in my life. This time I want to process it differently, but I just don't know how.

 

[Chicken]

Hey Marta,

This is an interesting post to me because I can so relate.  I experienced the EXACT same thing with an exN.  He was extremely abusive and had me under his power completely, I would suffer a complete loss of self during this time.  Then I would come to my senses and start to reclaim myself and to create boundaries.  Then for some odd reason he would respect me so much and really prove himself to me.  This normal somewhat healthy behaviour would continue and memories of the abuse would become fuzzy and not so important anymore.  I then would become lured in, it felt safe to open myself to him again,  he seemed really loving and caring this time.  I would fantasize about how our relationship could be.  So I would turn around, only to be hurt time and time and time again.  I always got an image at this time of him loving me when I had my back to him.  He loved the unavailibility.  He loved me with a brick wall around me, but not the real open me.  I really think it's an intimacy issue.

The reason I mention this is because i think it's very similar to the dynamic between you and your Mother.  It's a game of cat and mouse.  You have got to maintain this boundary with her.  You can only protect yourself by keeping your distance.  She respects you and loves you at a distance.  She will hurt you if you get too close.  How many times do you have to go around that part of the circle before you realise that it's not going to change.  Your lesson is to accept...  It is very difficult, I know, because it sounds like you love her, but your needs will not be met by your Mother... ever! 

You can only change your reaction to her and how you contribute to the dance.  You have got to stop needing her.  I can imagine just how painful it is beneath that cycle that you create.  That pain is what compells you to try again,  but it is self destructive, like banging your head against a brick wall.  You must be suffering a loss aswell Marta.  You are in a powerful place now.  Try to maintain that distance from her.  If you find yourself being drawn in, create more of a distance.  Do whatever it takes to break that cycle. 

Good Luck,

I feel your frustration,

Selkie

[David P]

Marta , Abusers are renowned for their 'nice to nasty' cycle. They are experts at drawing you in just close enough to land a punch. You know your mother's tactics by now and your have also witnessed your own past responses and the outcome. How has it worked for you in the past?

The people in this dance are the same Mom and the same Marta so probably the outcome will be the same as the last time.

Listen to Selkie -

David P.

[Hopalong]

Dear Marta who deserves a loving Mom,
It just occurred to me that maybe you can have some access to her loving side if you respond in the way she's reached out. In letters or notes. And stay at a safe distance from in-person contact.

(I get loving notes from my NMom too, and I do treasure those that have no "hooks" in them. Sometimes they're simple and truly just say "I love you." On the rare times she does that, I do treasure them. Have on on my bathroom mirror.

(Have to say though also that above my toilet, I have a plaque she actually ordered from a catalog for my Christmas present: "I smile because you are my daughter. I laugh because there's nothing you can do about it." !!!!  Even a narcissist can make you laugh, though it was Halloweenish.

Maybe with your graceful gift for words you might be able to build a little collection of notes sent and received that will be comfort to you one day. But without the hurts that happen when you visit her in person. Just a thought.

Meanwhile, go find some lovely lonesome older woman your mom's age and find yourself an alter-mother. That would be such a gift to you both.

Love
Hopalong

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hi Marta

I can relate to this with my bio dad.  When we don't talk, I get cards "To a loving daughter", and when we do, he forgets my birthday.

This time I changed it myself, I told him that no contact meant that, no contact, no cards nothing.  He was quite happy with no contact and sending cards saying "how can that hurt, I'm not doing anything but sending a nice card".  He didn't understand but I had to do what was right for me chick.

However you don't have to go that far, but I guess you recognise her writing.  Instead of getting suckered back into it, you can not open her cards/letters.  You do have a choice, although it's a limited choice where N's are concerned, you don't have to go back there again.  I believe you can do this, that you are strong enough to do this.  I also believe that you love and respect yourself enough to do this.  There's a lot of things in life where people have said "Take what you need and leave the rest" and I feel this applies in your case.  If you like to hear the things your mum is writing to you, open them and keep it that way.  If you are worried about getting sucked backed in, then leave them, burn them, do whatever you need to do.

Take care of yourself

H&H xx

[Hopalong]

Hey Marta:
Good point, H&H!
Sometimes it's better not to read them at all, depends how strong you're feeling.
Occasional "real" notes notwithstanding, I have may times also just torn up NMom's missives and thrown them away unread, when she was pushing me past my limits. With a few sincere exceptions, most of them, for many many years, were really only attempts to control me, disguised by "sweetness". There was almost always a hook in them. (Her N-ness hasn't gone away, she's just now a little too tired to be as powerful as she used to be.)

So I think NOT reading's a perfectly fine solution too, and thanks, H&H, for the wise reminder that we do have power to choose. Only the child of the N can know how they're doing about all that, balance wise. Maybe you're posting because you really need the strength to tear up the unopened envelopes.

Mail's like the phone, you can just let it ring...we really don't have to open things that our radar says leave alone.

Hugs,
Hopalong

[write]

This time I want to process it differently, but I just don't know how.

maybe you need to let go of fantasy mum and grieve for the unloved child inside yourself, and all those hurts?

I have no doubt that she loves you and that you are eminently loveable- but she is messed up and her love comes with controlling baggage.
Given the patterns she is unlikely to change, though I found when I finally treated my father with the adult scepticism and contempt his behaviour deserved we had a long period of little or no contact but he is now finally more respectful in his dealings with me. It took me years and therapy to learn how to set those boundaries, and to accept he loves himself more than he loves me, but that doesn't hurt now- and interestingly the pattern has moved a generation and my sister is now often the one who is often dismissive or critical!

We can't, sadly, relive our lives and get the love we deserved from these messed-up people but we can find other healthy people who will like and love us, and our lives may have been blighted but as I am just finding out- we can be happy despite the past.

[Marta]

Selkie, Davidp, Hopalong, H&H, Write, Thanks for your kind words and encouragement. It helped me get past that bad moment.

Selkie, yes, cat and mouse is exactly what this game is. You are right it is sufferring a loss. Not just loss of a mother, but loss of an entire world woven around her.

Davidp, yes I know my mom's tactics and will not give in to them ever again, but at times it is difficult to think pf them just as tactics, I wonder if there is a grain of truth in the love she shows at times.

Hopalong, that plaque is really funny! Yes, I do have a relationship like that, with my Nmom's very best friend in fact, how 'bout that? She is very sweet and nurturing, and is rejected by her own son. So I do drop by and see her time and again.

 H&H, yes, your dad seems to play the same game. Oh god!

Write, she is not just controlling, she is also destructive and sadistic. How do you take pleasure from intentionally hurting someone you love? I never understood that equation. It is interesting what you say about your sister, because the exact same thing has happened in my family, with my elder sister taking on the role of being the most critical person in the family.

 

[David P]

Hi Marta, gee this is a difficult issue for you. I guess that there MAY be a grain of sincere love and affection for you in your Mom,however it is up to her to water that seed and transform it into a thriving organism.That is how I see love -as an active, dynamic,vibrant being. It is not some vague obscure 'feeling'  that is experienced occasionally in some passive way. Love is about how we conduct ourself toward the object of our affection, and this implies a regular and onging relationship which is caring and respectful.
AS long as we define love in terms of 'feelings' then we will be at the mercy of our own chemical responses and the body chemistry of others.
I hear young women talk all the time about 'chemistry'. It seems to be the overwhelming factor in their dating selections. They invariable date losers and jerks because, in going after 'chemistry', they give away their ability to choose in a conscious way. They become motivated by some deep triggers which create nothing more that infatuation.

It is so hard to grasp the truth about own parents. Ultimately,I believe that their behavior toward their own children, defines who and what they are.

David in Tx.

[Plucky]

Hi Marta,
If you see a cycle starting and know that somehow at some point it turns bad, maybe it would help to document that.  So that even if this time you don't crack it, next time you will.

Keep a journal (you can do it up here) about what happens and your feelings.  If you start to doubt the reality of anything, it is all in writing.   Facts and feelings.

My mom drives me batty as well.  It is only since she has moved far away that things are better.  My attitude has changed and I am not tolerant of her any more.   Probably for 2 reasons.  One, is that her impact on my children is unacceptable.  Two, someone on this board said that I could throw away a bathrobe she gave me (against my wishes).   This may seem like a small thing.  But it was a revelation!  I don't have to hold onto the shyte she gives me!

I generalised this to many things and now feel freer than ever.  I hope you find the way out. 
Plucky

[Sela]

Dear (((((((Marta))))))):

My bet is that this cycle will take effort to break.  So my advice is.......

keep trying.

Even small changes add up after awhile so if you can give yourself credit for any small change you implement......that might encourage you to do a little more and help you feel like you are breaking the cycle.

I imagine you struggling between wanting to love and be loved by a mother who just keeps switching costumes from the good witch to the wicked witch (and she waves a pretty powerful magic wand too......by sending a few written words.....words she probably knows/senses you want to hear).

... she is not just controlling, she is also destructive and sadistic. How do you take pleasure from intentionally hurting someone you love?

This sounds so scary to me!  It's like trying to get close to Dr. J/Mr. H or something.  My answer to your question is that she is definately sick....anyone who acts like that must be sick (right???  It's not healthy to enjoy hurting).  If so then there is something else for you to grieve......the fact that your mother has an illness.  Maybe.....it's better to think of it that way.....to help take the onus off of....you.  There is nothing wrong with you.  She doesn't behave this way because of you.  It's not you....who has in any way.....caused this.  It's her illness.  (you may have already considered this....just wanted to restate/remind you ).

How about this........your mother has an illness that spreads???  If you tell yourself that if you get too close.......you will be sick too (not as sick as her......but unhealthy, unhappy, etc..not healing), maybe this idea would help you to keep a stronger boundary around you.......to keep you safe from her illness??

I wish I could give you a big, large, huge (((((((((((((Hug)))))))))))) Marta.  It's sad to know your mom is so ill.  If she had cancer, or something obvious........the whole world would understand and offer you support.  These kinds of illnesses are hidden/not obvious and people just don't seem to understand.  That's not very nice for you but at least if you can consider that she is indeed sick/ill/not well..........it might be easier to try different ways to protect yourself, a little at a time, from this over and over cycling?

Sending you good thoughts, good energy and lot's of warm enthusiastic hugs!!

Sela

[write]

Write, she is not just controlling, she is also destructive and sadistic. How do you take pleasure from intentionally hurting someone you love? I never understood that equation. It is interesting what you say about your sister, because the exact same thing has happened in my family, with my elder sister taking on the role of being the most critical person in the family.

isn't it wierd?
You share a childhood and think you understand each other then something shifts and rivalries develop....I had always seen my sister as an ally & we shared each other's problems, but somewhere down the line she decided I've had an easier life than she because I've always been wealthier- even though my husband and I have nothing we haven't worked hard for and earned ourselves, and Dad paid for her education ( he wouldn't pay for mine when I was younger. Maybe that gave me a certain determination to succeed without him oroutside help? )

When I finally pulled the plug on his draining my energy she told me I was cruel!

I tried a few times to explain, but even now when he has gone on to make a better life for himself, which I feel is partly because I refused to take a major role in trying to solve or as I see it now support his problems, she still sees me as heartless.

I've decided it is all part of her particular martyrdom and nothing to do with me personally. But talk about 'family systems theories...'


I'm going to post again about MY EXPERIENCE being valid and all that matters, but I am so glad you finally see things as they are, and  are ready to relinquish the control your mother has had.

I'm guessing wildly that such mechanisms are a part of natural selection and forcing the young to take care of the old...though why it should be so or need to be so, I don't know.

I have a close friend here who cannot do enough for her ailing mother because she was so kind to them all their lives....

Yet she also is struggling, so maybe it's not enough to ensure someone's long-term devotion?

Devotion as in what mommy wants, not what works best for everyone in the family....

Maybe only trapping someone into a world where they feel no choice is theirs is.

[David P]

Wow! Write, that last sentence above hit me hard. That was the precise strategy which my parents use( and used in my childhood). They have a belief that they *own* the decision making process in respect of my life and the life of my sibs. Their belief is fierce and relentless and is not amenable to change or challenge through discussion or negotiation. There are many companion beliefs which also surface regularly (straight out of the N' Handbook of Horrors).

My personal favorite is, "If we lend you money then this gives us the right to not only dictate how that money will be spent by you ,but to question you to make sure that you are not having a nice time socially with one dime of it?"

David P.

[vunil]

Hi, Marta--

As you know, I've thought a lot about this issue, too.  I believe that the love -is- real, at least for all but the most psychopathic N's.  Yes, there are people so N they can't love at all but I don't think that's the norm.  Instead, I think that N's have the impetus toward all that is good-- toward love, toward being able to give, toward selfliessness, toward being close to other people.  They just can't do it, at least not for any length of time.  The problem is, their disease (or flaw or nature or whatever) pulls against all that love requires--  so when push comes to shove they just can't do it and in fact behave terribly. 

For me, it helps to realize the love is actually real because my instinct says it is-- this allows me to trust my instnct that the other stuff is real, too.  Maybe for others it is more helpful to reject the idea of love in this form, which I understand, too.  For me, I think that the duality is there, and it's sad.

[David P]

Vunil,
 Maybe you can call me cynical but I really think that Vunil is missing the point a little here.
Does it matter whether most N' s have an "impetus" toward love or not. What matters (to me at least ) is that they behave appallingy.

 I have little time for the 'good intentions' defense. Ultimately,the only thing that counts is the end result, and the end result of having an N in your life is profound psychic harm to you.

It matters little that some N's MAY have an occasionally humane thought or even a sincere desire to reach out to someone,what counts is that they do not do it when it is needed.
I have learned that it is futile trying to calculate the quantum and scope of the N's' love' (if indeed there is such a thing) . The only measurement that I value is the distance between them and me.

David P .