Vaknin perspective

[Hopalong]

Here's one place I found interesting:
http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/narcissism_caution_internet.html

And this page: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=npd_family.

I was always disturbed by something poisonous in his writing. These perspectives helped.

Hopalong

[CeeMee]

Okay Hoppy,

I am feeling like we are limbically connected now.  That is EXACTLY what I thought when I read his board. (is it a he or a she, I don't know).  I found the place downright scary. 

CeeMee

[Sallying Forth]

I wouldn't even read his stuff after finding a lot of it at Dr. Irene's web site. She doesn't seem to have a problem with him. I am pretty sure it is a him. I certainly do.

[reallyME]

Actually, Sam Vaknin is a man from what I can tell.  I've not only seen his photo, but I've heard him interviewed.

His info was the very first info that helped me learn about N'ism and really relate to it.  I have corresponded with him via email, only to find out that any advice he gives, he very sneakily CHARGES you for after he makes it seem like he's giving it to you out of the goodness of his heart.  Go figure.  I even wrote him back and told him how deceptive I felt that was.

ReallyME

[wally]

Hi all,

I read his book, and much of the surrounding critics comments.  I think that there is truth in his writings, however the fact that he has a severe case of "Yankee Envy" kind of clouds his motives.  He is a self declared N, and it is clear that many of the symptoms and behaviors that he describes and seems to loathe are still in his make-up (it takes a thief to catch a thief).  I am not defending his absurdness, and hypocrisies, I am just saying that it is consistant with what he has described as N'ism.  I was very surprised to read some of the similaraties between his "Yankee Envy" (this is my unofficial term for American Haters) and his N'istic behavior.  As contraversial as he is it is interesting to understand so many perspectives, and I found it helpful especially since I only recently started researching N'ism for my own reasons.  If nothing else it is interesting to read a "Clepto's definition of thieves", perhaps there is some good inside information here.  Not to stir the pot, but its my opinion.

[reallyME]

Hey Wally,

First of all, HI...I haven't seen ya here before.

Secondly, I have found Vaknin's writings to line 100% up with the N's behaviors in my own life.  I find his writings very reliable and accurate and common in all the N's I've ever met or dealt with.

Thirdly, in the WHAT ABOUT BOB movie, it could have been about the N in my life (the psychiatrist guy) and me, Bob...I watched it at my spiritual Mom's house and we pointed out Jodi and me through the whole thing and just laughed ourselves silly!

~ReallyME

[wally]

Hi Reallyme,

Ya he has some hardcore critics out there, and reasonably so.  I thought that much of his writing is spot on.  He does not seem to have much of a grey area about N's, his solution for all N victims is to distance yourself if you can ASAP, which seems to be very accurate for the pathological N's.  His book did answer many questions about me, and my family in way of perspective.  His theory seems to be that there are no uncalculated moves in the N's life routines and you can draw a conclusion to every action or omission (paranoid with sad truth).  If this is true than that takes my family off of the extreme edge of N'ism, because they do have random routines at times (mistakes, or follies) with no motives or harmless ones at least.  So I was relieved to understand that possibility.  I think that he is right as far as N'ism in the way that N's are so sickly cyclical in revolving selfishness that N's are constantly chasing their tales for their solutions, blame, calculations, and their sick resolve to get what they need from whoever it takes, or whoever is dumb enough to stand in their way.  If your useable, then your needed.  Other than that I have found that everyone gets into those cycles, its just the ones that don't get out of them are the ones worth avoiding.  I know its easier said than done especially if its a family affair.  In my case there are prolonged periods in my family that it seems that some of us don't emerge from the cycle, but then there are moments of clarity.  Just like Vaknin eludes to as far as it takes a major life crisis to attain the moment of clarity.  It does seem though that time and age seem to slow the N's energy, and lets in moments of regret, sorrow, and to some extent compassion.  Sometimes the regret is a thieves regret of getting caught, not of offending others.  But some of the people that do see the pain that they continually spread are at least aware of the behavior which is worth something.  There are some hardcore N's in the fam, I'm just hoping they emerge as one of them has (I am not speaking in the third person), I think because of time and age.  Being a child of N's I know that I delve into my own vicious, vicious selfish cycles and hate myself and the pain I cause even when I'm in the middle of one.  Its weird to understand this gross illness, and also be part of it.  Fortunately I have a wonderful wife, and kids that keep me focused much of the time.  Its good for me to get this out even knowing that even this long paragraph is filled with hypocrisy.  Wow it has been a long time since I've been to this board, guess I had to air some things out.........lol.

[reallyME]

There is a man that is an N on another forum, who claims to be in high authority, who is now launching a major SMEAR campaign against me and a friend of mine, who really cannot handle this sort of thing and also had nothing to do with what torked the dude off in the first place.

I had gone into the man's room in a hidden name, found out a dear friend of mine was in his ministry room, HELPING HIM and CLOSE TO HIM.  I warned her immediately, and no, I was not nicey nice about it either.  I said, "X, what on EARTH are you doin in this room with this man?"  She said, "RM, is this really necessary?"  I said "YES IT SURE IS!"  She then told me, "Ok, go ahead, I'm listening.  I proceeded to tell her about this man's controlling ways.  She ended up reporting back to him what I said...which, SO WHAT?  I don't give a rip, but he didn't slander me as much as he slandered a friend of mine I'm close to.  He somehow has hacked her email and sent a letter "exposing" us all over to her friends, contacted her child at work, and, then sent a letter to another friend of mine against me and my friend.

This other friend and I went and confronted the N and he immediately told me I have 3 choices, "repent to him and be restored" refuse to repent and cut myself off from them, or stay in denial."  My response "Since you are not MY GOD, I don't need to make any of those choices for you, and I've said what I had to say. X had nothing to do with this."  With that, the N said "You have insulted me 13 times already in here so BYE, and he left.  (He said I insulted him because I told him that IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII was the one who went to my friend and warned her against him and I STAND BY THAT AND WILL CONTINUE TO WARN PEOPLE!) 

Then, my friend invited him back in a room to talk to her and her husband.  Her husband said to him, "you don't want restoration N, you are looking for someone with a whip!"  At that, N said, "I heard him!  BYE FOR REAL!"  and he ran again.

After all this, N went to his website and publically smeared us some more and told his goonies exactly everything that happened with us.  He has done this before with the church that "slandered" him and didn't receive him.

So, there's an update on the latest N info for ya'll.  Keep me in your prayers and all this involves.

Blessya and thanks for listening,

~ReallyME

[wally]

Hi ReallyME,

This self declared god seems ("repent to him and be restored") fairly predictable, Vaknin says to "mirror his behavior"(Vaknin, Malignant Self Love).  It would probably be hard to do, but if he is pursuing you and relentlessly so then why not.  I know its hindsight but if you would have exalted yourself to god right back to him with the same or similar demands it seems to me that he would have been baffled (hee hee).  It's really a tiff for tatt approach and uses more energy than I would want to spend but again if he is pursuing you then throw his absurdness right back in his face and publicly.  I almost laugh as I write this, because without knowing this individual I am getting way to involved, but since this thread is about the "Vaknin Perspective" I thought it appropriate to consider a Vaknin solution, and I am sure it is much more involved than to fix with such a simple answer.  At any rate God bless you in your damage control mode with this lovely character.

Sincerely,

Wally

[reallyME]

Actually, Wally, you are RIGHT ON!  This guy definitely is intimidated when others dare to stand up to him and fight power with power.  He will run every time, saying that the person who dared to stand, is actually PERSECUTING HIM in some way.

I'd love to hear more from you, Wally, and from anyone else who has something to share on this.

~ReallyME

[Hopalong]

That's laughable.
Can you imagine Doc G deleting any of us "as punishment"?

Wow.

And therein lies the difference between these two teachers.
How sad for the unwary that the "voicehog" is practically synonymous with N-issues.
When he's actually so mired in it all does not grow. Celebrates his power and cruelty.

Hops

[Me]

Hi all,

He is a Yankee Hater #1, and he rules from the roost of his site#2.  His illness is his demon, and he knows it.  As accurate as he describes N symptoms he probable demonstrates them even better, and again.......knows it, tough spot to live in.  He is not into healing, just like the politicians need dependence so that they can promise solutions, Vaknin needs affirmation of being supreme in his semantics.  He is obviously romanticized by his own writings and any challenge needs to be "screened and approved" so that it does not take center stage.  Vaknin is not seeking healing, he is seeking supremacy for his "Narcissistic Supply".  The internet is the easiest and fastest avenue for ego satisfaction, there is always someone weak, and needy enough to subscribe to whatever madness you demonstrate as the new light.  I like his writings because he went too far in helping us to understand the darkness of the N.  Perhaps this is why he says that the illness cannot be conquered because the darkness that he controls is $ to him regardless of the issues.  Most people on this site are interested in healing, solutions, enlightenment, and closure.  Vaknin demonstrates with his actions that you need to be dependant on his point of view, understanding, enlightenment, and his closure, he is the sad truth of this illness, its like reading an autobiography of a serial killer.  His writings were meant for anyone not American, other than that you have to pay the toll for being one (trying to get his approval).  He in my opinion has written the "Mein Kompff" of N'ism, but with the hate of American spoil.  Just my opinion..........lol


God Bless America,

Wally

[wally]

Hi Moonlight,

I am not used to this site as I probably should be but it was me Wally, I signed in as "me" because I didn't realize that I hadn't signed in and I did not want to rewrite.  I think that perhaps I was, or could have been giving supply to Vaknin if 1) I thought that he monitored this site, and 2) If I really cared if he or anyone else saw what I was writing.  I was simply expressing my point of view, about his views, in contrast with his slants.  I honestly don't care if he is bothered for the good or the bad on my opinion, I have a life.  Even if he personally responded I may or may not get back to him based on the content and that has more to do with me not wanting to give more energy to him or the subject than is entertainably reasonable or comfortable for me.  I am not trying to pick a fight, and do not have any interest in pursuing one, but I did read his book and know some deal of his claims, therefore I was interested in this particular thread.  I am not repelling you by any means, I am who I am, and would be willing to discuss many things just not willing to debate about wether my opinion matters or not, cause I know in the big scheme its all arguable (until a news anchor makes it scripture).  Vaknin has some great insights, and his actions display exactly what he has pronounced in his own illness.  If I wrote a book, I am sure that I could not handle the vast criticisms, not to suggest that I would have enough knowledge or patience to do so.  Worst case scenario for me is I bumble through life with my wonderful wife and kids.  Vaknin's life is his pain, not mine and that is true for all.  I want to heal, and I need all the information I can get wrong and right to do so, and I am willing to risk the pain of being wrong, and am not worried about the consequences of being humbly right as this is not my goal. 

Sorry........not to jump down your throat, I am just hurting like the rest of the honest people on this board, and I know you mean no harm.


Wally

[Sheela]

I also have read Vaknin. He is an NPD with self-awareness. The extent of the disease shows itself in him; with as much education and intimate knowledge of the condition as he has, he is still forced to operate as Narcissist. He needs your wide-eyed disbelief, your search for an" expert", your search for the answer. He also needs your horror and your your disbelief. Narcissisists glory in being "The Answer, "The Expert" "The Source."

What he has  to say is truthful and scary. He needs that. yet I beleive he is intelligent ans knows how twisted his needs are.

I logged into his site and left a comment. I then received a flood of emails from him containin obsessive descriptions of NPD in greater detail than anyone could ever care to know. Apparently, by logging into his site, I was also (unbeknownst to me), signed up to receive his voluminous emails on the minutiae of Narcissistic living. In other words, as a brilliant but twisted man, he has found a brilliant but twisited way to get all of his N's need met through our attention,  his "Narcissistic Supply." That attentions is acceptable regardless of it nature; it can be horror, sadness, entreaty, worship, awe or fear. Our reactrion is a constant mirror.

To Vaknin's  credit , when I asked to be taken off the  list, I was, immediately. I feel sorry for him. I am also glad i don't know him.

[wally]

Hey Moonlight, why did you take your post off the board?  That was a nice bait and switch.......clever.