Narcissists roping you in again Why?

[2224Jessica]

Hi Everyone,
My mum is a narc (as talked about in my other post) I wrote a letter to my Dad, he's not a narc ..about the truth..  Two weeks later they sms'd me inviting me and my kids to stay with them in the country for a few days. (they never invite us) I then wrote, "Do you accept and what is in the letter" there was no reply. Then I said. " I cannot come because while you do not accept the reality of the abuse and pain that mum has and is inflicting I cannot see you at all. (I know they will probably never accept it) I know that they want to play happy families again and pretend. My mother will try and manipulate me again and tell me to keep the family together. I can't do it anymore, I'm tired.  I see the light now and for me there is no turning back. Will they understand that I'm serious.

Jessica

[darky]

in my view, it could be for 2 reasons. your mum could be roping you in again as another supply, to be nice to you and then kick you when you least expect it and make you feel battered and bruised inside and wonder what the hell happend. or it could be, like the sort of thing my mum would do, i would imagine it could be, that shes filled your dads head with alsorts, telling him how YOU resent her and how its all YOUR fault that you wont accept her no matter what she does. she may be willing to "prove" to your dad that you wont agree, just so she gets the "oh look see i tried but she wont, she hates me" sympathy!  it sounds to me like shes manipulating your dad, like my mum did, playing the game to make her look good, and you look bad. they play a clever game, whatever you choose, you loose.

[mia]

I don't have parents that are N but I deal with an Xhusband who is one.  I can't imagine that your Nmom will let you slip away easily.  How will that look to her friends?  What will the neighbors think?   What will she say when folks inquire about her relationship with you?

It's all about apperances and she probably will try to keep stringing you along.

You sound determined though.  Stick to your guns.  I know it can't be easy.

Best wishes.

[Healing&Hopeful]

(((((((((((Jessica))))))))))))

I know what you mean about playing happy families.  I do this too.... whenever I go home I fall back into the same role within the family.  For me anyway, I know that I cannot give them up because of one person.  I can see how much Mum controls them, but I know that I still want to see my stepdad and half brother, and for that reason I put up and shut up.  Now I'm an adult Mum's not that bad anyway, and there is no way she can inflict the pain of my childhood on me again.  Plus I feel that I would be lonier without them in my life, even though I don't see them that often.

I feel it depends on if you'd still like a relationship with your dad?  Is it possible to spend time with your dad on his own? (It's not in my family.... Mum & stepdad are together 247).  You still don't have to go and stay, or if you did then stay on your terms.  What does your sister think?  Does she still see them?

Take care

H&H xx

[2224Jessica]

Hello everyone;
Thankyou for all the input and ideas, they are so helpful.
I think for me it's easier to not go because I will find it difficult to put up with mum, my sister can do this, she does still see them. She understands if I don't want contact with them. My sister is the parent to her so she knows how to deal with mum. My sister was 8 and mum and dad left her alone with a 6 year old and a baby(me) to look after on a regular basis. She says she didn't even know how to change a nappy.   At this stage it's all very new for me so I am not sure what I may do down the track. However if my dad is coming to the city for work then I would definately pursue him and have dinner with him etc.  I probably will keep communication open  with him but I think for me for the moment is to have a break seeing them all together so I can begin healing.

[Plucky]

Hi Jessica,
It's not all that relevant what they are 'thinking'.  It's much more important what you plan to do, now that you have stopped drinking the kool-aid and it is workign its way out of your system.  Do not expect much from them.    Just do what you know you need to do.

There must be one way to make your dad wake up. There must be one thing he still holds sacred and will not let her destroy.
Plucky

[guest444]

This is very interesting to me because it all happened to me too.  I cut off my family.  All of them (only my parents, I think, are N though).  Guess what happened?  The same thing.  Subconsciously almost everyone else in the family joined the bandwagon--all 7 of them.  The only one who didn't was my older brother, who I felt closest too.  He didn't go out of his way to console me, but he didn't rip me up like the others did, for no good reason.  My siblings spouses in jumped on the bandwagon.  It was incredible.  When I returned to the "fold" guess what happened?  Well, I quietly went about my ways, Pretending to go along for almost 5 or 6 years.  It took me a long time to forgive the enablers..but I eventually did.  Then an interesting thing happened.  My parents slowly, one by one got mad at everyone Except me.  It was incredible.  Talk about power!  For almost a year I could do no wrong!!  Everyone else was "selfish" everyone else had one problem or another, including the spouses of the siblings.  It was all explained in excrutiating detail in a letter my Dad sent one of my sisters.  People were at a loss, they didn't know what to do.

Mom and Dad weren't happy with them, they didn't know how to deal...  OK, maybe there is/was still a small vindictive part in my heart that wasn't totally healed, because I was sort of glad others were finally feeling what it'd been like to be in my position, a few years earlier...  I got apologies from both my sisters (who had previously jumped on the me bashing bandwagon).  They even admitted they weren't seeing things straight then "because they lived with and/or were being controlled by Mom and Dad."  Wow!  Imagine how I felt.

So, then I had a very difficult decision to make, and that was what to say to my parents, as it was now "my time."  They were coming to me with all the complaints about the others, anything I said or did was acceptable--for the first time in my life, I think I felt no criticism from them.  I tested this too--I purposely acted a little selfish, just to see what their response would be--nothing.  No criticism.

Then, I went for the jugular.  Instead of enjoying this treatment one bit longer I said:  You know, this is interesting.  Perhaps this is the time to make a very good point.  I sent everyone in my family emails and called them and empathized with them; I told everyone I understood what they were going through.  I said I was formulating a plan to tell Mom and Dad.  And then, instead of sitting back and enyoying the treatment I was getting from them (for once)--I socked it to them.  Calmly and rationally I told them I'd been in contact with everyone and that there was a concensus:  we didn't like the hate mail.  We didn't like being judged.  We didn't their attempts and controlling and manipulating us and we didn't appreciate the guilt trips.  In short, I called them at their own game.

A weird things happened--well not really.  I Became the bad kid once again.  Overnight!  Suddenly it was like without question they accepted everyone else back into the fold, no questions asked and announced at Christmas that it was no longer anyone else they were mad at it was me!  Comical?  Yes.  And the beauty of it was that all my brothers' and sisters' spouses and most of my siblings (I think, although perhaps one or two are still in denial) saw it this way to.  They saw how easy it was for my parents to go from loving to hating for no good reason.  They say, I think, exactly what they're doing!

That was good enough for me.  I don't need anything else from them.  I can have relationships with the people I want to in my family without playing their games anymore.

[Guest444]

p.s. jacmac

I'm sorry your sister isn't talking to you.  I know how that feels and even though you say "her loss" it still hurts immensely.

One of my sisters, who I was very close to when we were small (I thought) turned against me and I felt hated me.  She said it was because "you were bossy when we were little."  (what?)

The other, made me feel so horrible, when I asker her to be my maid of honor in my wedding, her response was "not like I have a choice," and walked off.  She also told my Mom "I'm supposed to get married before her."  The thing that really killed me was when I didn't go to her wedding (happened after mine, for fear of upsetting Someone more if I went, and giving them more reasons to hate me, and also out of fear I would somehow make her look bad..); I sent her a check for a wedding gift.  She cashed it and the "thank you" note said only the following:  "I hope that in 20 years you will look back at this and still regret your decision not to attend my wedding."  That one really hurt.

These are the same sisters that are apologizing to me today.  Not saying you should have hope.  But typically people who aren't screwed up and are just enablers, one day come to their senses, maybe?

[2224Jessica]

Hi every one,
I really relate to you Jacmac. I am starting to see how Dad, enabler is allowing this to happen even if he's blindsighted. Being codependant is abusive too.  I think you are right, I think he's unable to deal with the truth. I am worried what she is going to do to try and get me in line. My mind is pretty set though.
Thanks again everyone

[Marta]

There must be one way to make your dad wake up. There must be one thing he still holds sacred and will not let her destroy.

Alas, I wish. Too many just die as enablers, well into their grave. There are no guarantees in the N world, craziness is the only constant. Not that we should give up.

I am always ten times more angry with the enabler than I am with the abuser. 

Me too.

Jess, do your thang, trust your hunches, DONT go if you don't wanna go. At least with your dad, its more likely that you can maintain an independent relationship (as opposed to sibs in case of other folks.)

Yes, she'll go on an out-and-out campaign to destroy you and your reputation. Alas. Either way, its a no-win situation.

Hugs, Marta

[miss piggy]

Dear all,

I have read many times that it is so common to be more angry with the enabler than the abuser.   As for waking up, my mother is a covert N and having my Nfather around worked for her until he retired and brought all his neediness home full time.  We kids served as targets for his anger and kept it deflected off her.  She didn't protect us from his anger and now she expects us to rescue her.  I have to say he's been pretty ugly to her and I feel for her, but it's her choice how she deals with it. 

I'm not taking the responsibility of making the decision for separating them.  I told her I would support her if that is what SHE wanted to do.  I know full well that, like a cop in the middle of a domestic dispute, I would become the "bad guy" in a nanosecond for doing the "mean thing" and institutionalizing him while trying the "save" her.  Basically, she wants us kids to hold the bag.  No thanks.  You chose him.  It's your bag.

I am also angry with her for always taking lying Nbrother's side in any dispute.  When Nfather and Nbrother are not involved, we have a pretty good relationship.  But I always know where I stand: at the back of the line. 

As for my other brother and his psycho wife, he stays because the arrangement works for him.  Better to be married to a weirdo than be alone.

MP

[bean]

http://www.operationdoubles.com/narc/index.htm

What to expect from "innocent" bystanders
   

In a word, nothing.

The most deplorable thing about narcissistic abuse is the bystanders' reaction to it. It can end your naïveté and turn you into a cynic overnight. The universal complaint of those targeted by narcissists is that they are universally abandoned.


See also "The Smear Campaign of the Abuser"
at Sanctuary for the Abused: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/
 



But let this fact comfort you. It's not because of something wrong with you, it's because of something wrong with them.

First let's understand this phenomenon. I warn you that doing so is painful. But from this understanding you can gain some guidance on where to look for help and where to place your trust.

People are like sheep. When a wolf approaches, you think they are blissfully unaware of his presence, but they are studying his every move. By showing no alarm, each sheep is just being careful to draw no attention to itself. The moment the wolf sets the evil eye on one of their number, the rest explode in all directions away from it. In other words, they betray/sacrifice the victim to it. Later, they come back to graze upon that very spot as if Lamb never existed.

History is replete with examples of this phenomenon in human affairs. The most ironic famous example is what happened to Jesus of Nazareth. The same people who thronged to welcome him crying, "Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" one day abominated him crying "Crucify him!" the next. All because the wind shifted. So, they couldn't get close enough to him one day, and they couldn't distance themselves from him enough the next.

The same thing happens in every purge, pogrom, persecution, and witch hunt. People behave like unsupervised children do when a school-yard bully sets the evil eye on one of them. In fact, bullies quickly learn to exploit this behavior. The Lord of the Flies is a brilliant, sad, and enlightening novel (also made into a movie) that explores this phenomenon.

Before you know it, the bully is constantly picking on somebody. Why? To periodically make an example of what happens to anybody he sets the evil eye on. In other words, your little school-yard bully is now a terrorist. He is victimizing one kid to control the others. And he does so just frequently enough to maintain the atmosphere of terror he thrives on. He deliberately targets the last ones to deserve his hatred. Why? Because that shows the others that they needn't give him any reason to attack. He is so wild that he is likely to just go off at anybody. This makes the other children fall all over themselves to ingratiate themselves to him. They are so anxious to kiss up to him that they take advantage of opportunities to be seen by him abusing his victim themselves. So, he can sic them like a pack of hounds on anybody he wants.

Antiochus did it. Nero did it. Diocletan did it. The Inquisition did it. Robespierre did it. Stalin did it. Hitler did it. Senator McCarthy did it. Madam Mao and her Gang of Four did it. Pol Pot did it. Saddam Hussein did it. And Osama bin Laden does it. All terrorists do it. All gangsters do it. Every messianic pied piper does it. Every executive or administrative bully in the workplace does it. Every neighborhood or family "Old Man" does it. Every school-yard bully does it. It's childsplay.

How do the other children justify taking no action against the terrifying bully and persecuting the victim instead? The same way the terrifying bully does — by blaming the victim. How do they deal with their guilt? The same way the terrifying bully does — by projection. Onto the victim, of course. So, the victim gets to be, not only the victim of their sins, but also the one punished for them.


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

—Voltaire
 


To "rationalize" (= irrationalize) what they're doing, the bystanders twist their thinking to pervert everything, so that anything the victim does is somehow wrong and everything the terrifying bully does is somehow excusable. They do this by looking on what the wild one does like those three famous apes — See No Evil, Hear No Evil, and Speak No Evil. This is the worst form of lying, perverting the very mind. It is so stubborn that we hear people today making excuses (and blaming the victim) even for the sickening actions of Islamist terrorists whose behavior is blatantly psychotic. But if the victim lifts a finger to defend himself, the "innocent" bystanders suddenly come to and condemn him as evil for attacking.

That is extreme perversity, what Biblical theologians identify as the Sin of Sodom. The bystanders are awarding the terrifying bully the status of a child. That is, they absolve him of responsibility for what he does. It is all the victim's fault for making him mad. Making him mad by not doing what he wants them to. Or for not dressing so as to control his sexual appetite for him (by looking like a sack of potatoes). No matter what the context, it's always the same old story: Blame the Victim. That way, the wild one gets to do whatever he wants and have somebody else be to blame for it. Now that's infallibility.

So, your "innocent" bystanders aren't innocent at all. They're like a bunch of cowards at a rape: silent, mouth-breathing, eyes glazed . . . seeing nothing, hearing nothing, knowing nothing . . . till suddenly they get to point and condemn the victim for uttering a naughty word.

Sad fact, but true. They're collaborators.

Are they all crazy? No, they are just mocky-mocks, a cast of actors on a stage. They all believe their little stage play is reality. It's "their truth." So long as the house lights are down, the outside world (the audience) is out of sight and out of mind. They are in their own upside-down little world. An echo chamber. They act by believing that they really ARE the good characters they play and that the play is reality. They are just being politically correct in their play world, which is a virtual reality that their virtual conspiracy enacts.

[2224Jessica]

Well said Bean,
Its very true isn't it. Sad but true...

[Hopalong]

Bean,
I'm slack jawed. That's a wonderful essay.

Makes me think acts of kindness have to be learned and earned,
whereas cruelty really doesn't take much work at all.

Hopalong

[bean]

woops, I should have said I didn't write that.  I found it on the link at the beginning. 

I do understand though, being the scapegoat in my family for many many years.  It's said, but I think you have to have no expectations of others.  And if one day they come around, learn to forgive them.