Love of my life won't let go of his narcissistic ex-wife -- Advice? Validation?

[tejaspear]

One of the first things he told me when we met was that he would never let go of his ex-wife and holds her as a close friend.

I was worried at first. The "thou dost protest too much thing" after he brought it up several times. I talked to friends and they thought it was a good sign for a man to be good friends with his ex.

Then she called him during our first date -- knowing I was there. And on the second. And the third. Gave him messages for me, "Treat him good or you'll answer to me" (like a lighthearted rib), and then "Thank you for being good to him."

Over the next couple of months I learned how abusive she was to him throughout at least 9 of their 10 years together, and he has admitted many times that she is a narcissist. She verbally cut him down constantly, controlled him and cheated on him. Finally it was the cheating that caused him to divorce her.

Now he swears, and I believe him, that he will never have sex with her again. BUT he still feels GUILTY and RESPONSIBLE for her. This drives me NUTS.

I was learning to live with it. She only calls him a few times a week and they never go out to eat together or anything like that (because he doesn't want the man she lives with to think anything is going on). She claims to be "all for" me and him being together.

Then when I started to move in with him she called up crying -- twice in one hour -- and it came out that though he told me before that if I couldn't live with her in our lives he would give her up, he could no longer abide by that.

I asked, "What if her lover kicks her out? Are you going to let her stay in the guest house?" He says yes of course, like any friend in need. "How long?" "Two or three months."

I felt invaded. I feel as if she has let me know at every turn of the corner who is in control, and it's HER. Anytime she would want to put me in a bad mood, and destabilize my relationship with him, all she has to do is make a pest of herself on the phone, where I can listen to him baby-talk her, "Oh sweetie, things are going to be all right. You just keep your chin up and let me know how it's going. 10,000 other men will want you if this guy doesn't."

He claims I am being ridiculous, that he is just being spiritual by forgiving her for all the awful things she did to him, and after all she has done some nice things for him since their divorce was final a year ago.

I could not abide with this situation. When I tried to, my heart hurt so badly it was a physical pain.

Has anyone else here had to struggle with the ex of a narcissist? It is so sad, because he and I were so RIGHT for each other in SO many ways -- and for each of us it was the best loving relationship we ever had.

Why won't he let go of her for me? Will he ever? He is in total denial. I have told him it's over until and unless he contacts me with the news he has let go of her being in his life. He says losing me makes him feel ill and nauseated and hard for him to function.

Can anybody relate???

[tejaspear]

Thanks so much for your analysis of the situation, Jac! A lot rings true!

As for your question why did I not pass on him when he mentioned the importance of his ex as a friend was because I didn't want to be unfair. I thought if it was a healthy relationship it would not hurt me.

I just hate this. It is so unfair. But then things are rarely fair in this world, are they?

[Kimscastle]

Tejaspear,

You know I keep on asking myself the same questions as you are. Whats going on? What does N husband really mean?  Does he really love me and he just needs my love and support to get him through this tough time?  CAN MY LOVE CHANGE HIM?  Always reading between the lines.  but the answer is no......HE TOLD YOU ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW!  HE WILL NEVER GIVE HER UP.....!  If you can live being abused every day -stay with him- thats why he chose you!  He can have you and abuse you with your permission and consent. Accept that=  If you cannot accept it get out! but do not be confused........
KP

[tejaspear]

Thanks, KP...!

You are right. I know you are right. I'm making myself move on. Before I told him that I would not look for someone else for a while (letting him know he had time to change his mind and let her go), but I am realizing that will only keep me hanging onto hope where there is none.

I just emailed him and told him I'm moving on, gonna see other men. I'm ready for this to be HISTORY. Feeling the pain and disappointment all the time is getting very old.   

[tejaspear]

Oh no, I don't think protecting myself from a potentially harmful relationship is unfair. What seems so unfair is how HAPPY we were together when "she" was not calling on the phone or the topic of conversation. I never experienced a relationship that was so wonderful in so many ways.

One thing I have learned is to ALWAYS trust my intuition. I know that sometimes someone having an ex for a friend is not a problem, but the fact is I saw a RED FLAG from the get go and chose to ingore it. Why? I think I just was being too needy -- wanting to have a relationship, period, and he was the one that most enticed me from the selection of men I had at the time.

I feel hurt by feeling that he loves me and at the same time not giving her up, which feels like an oxymoron. I feel let down by him. I feel angry at myself for letting him sweet talk me into believing he loved me even though he won't give her up.

I learned a lot about narcissists, and I learned I have come a long way (as a child of an N mother and NPD/BPD father). My main lovers in youth were N boys and men that were very abusive and I was a co-dependent. I'm reading Vaknin's book now. I think it will help me to understand better my own past and how to deal with narcissists I come across in the future (as they seem to be in no short supply).

In some ways my recent relationship was an interesting mirror for me -- a mirror of how I used to be with N mates. So devoted and loving and yet so lacking in self esteem and so addicted to someone who has no love to give.

But the most wonderful thing I learned is that I am not afraid to be alone. Being alone feels SO much better than being in a hurtful relationship there is simply no contest. I don't feel that I need a man -- even though I want one.

I feel empowered by going through this process as quickly as I did, and with less self-doubt than ever. I learned more of what I want and what I don't want (both psychologically and in regard to more mundane issues).

He was the "best" lover I ever had (not just sexually, but in many ways overall). My taste in men hasn't hit "perfect" yet, but it's getting better all the time!

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hey there

I don't know if you're going to pop back to the board, but I thought I'd post my take on this....

He is the victim of his ex.  I agree he probably has issues with self esteem of his own, but he is still the victim.

Did you ever suggest the two of you going to couples counselling together?

I agree that he is over responsible and possibly still trying to "save" his ex, as well as looking for the approval.

It sounds to me like you have done a lot of work on yourself to get to where you are.... and if he agreed to go to counselling, then you may have a future.

If he doesn't agree, you know there is no hope because nothing will change.

Just a thought....

H&H xx

[tejaspear]

Thanks, H&H.

Actually, YES, I did ask him to go to counseling with me. He never agreed or disagreed to do it (as we didn't have the money for it now or anytime soon anyhow). He did come out and say that he does not consider himself to be in need of therapy and was insulted when I implied he might.

I have a blog, which is usually about my raw food diet but sometimes about other things, and today I wrote about some of my past with narcissists and a little about this most recent relationship, if anyone cares to read it:

http://curezone.com/blogs/f.asp?f=67&t=58990

or

<http://curezone.com/blogs/f.asp?f=67&t=58990>

I woke up this morning that all I need is a few days of thinking about OTHER things than Bill and his ex and I will be something close to feeling "on top of the world." Thanks to all for your caring, thoughtful and helpful responses!!

Michele

[Plucky]

Hi tejaspear,
I agree with the wonderful, clear advice you have gotten so far.  Except about counseling with him - I think he ought to be in your past, not your future.  Sorry H&H, I don't feel forgiving!

Maybe you took on the challenge of competing with his ex. You thought that since the relationship was ringing your bell, that he ought to feel so strongly that he could finally wean off of her.  You were ready to take a committing step - moving in.  Then is became clear that she might also move in, at any time.  She won. 

This is all a game.  It's better to fold now than to lose your shirt.  Next time,  I bet you won't even sit down!

Look after yourself and I'm sorry for the hurt you have felt.    It's better to understand it than not.
Plucky

[tejaspear]

Thank you Plucky!!!!!!!!!  I really needed to hear that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    

[tejaspear]

I also want to thank you, Jac, for pointing out that no matter what, a guy saying he's keeping his ex no matter what is a hot potato.

I have thought about this a lot, and even if it WERE a "healthy" relationship of a guy and his ex, he should be willing to let go of her if he wants me to be the new woman in his life. It is not asking too much. If they need and want each other so much they should just stay together.

Thanks again to all who have posted. I definitely went through emotional ups and downs about this today. My resolve stayed the same, but am fighting the blues. My main way to fight the blues is to use a sort of mental behavior modification on myself. (For instance if I notice I am thinking about him and her constantly then to insert the thoughts of others in my life that are near and dear to me and think and feel about THEM instead. That helps a lot, as I spend SO much time with him the month of December...

Best wishes to you all and thanks again!

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya Tej

Sorry... I apologise... I do try to look for the best and a happy ever after  ... but like you said you asked the question and didn't get a response. In my book, no concrete yes answer equals a no with this kind of thing.  While I think he's a victim, he's still a victim that has to do something about his behaviour, about his issues.

I have thought about this a lot, and even if it WERE a "healthy" relationship of a guy and his ex, he should be willing to let go of her if he wants me to be the new woman in his life. It is not asking too much.

I feel this is spot on Tej...  not only that he would be willing to let go of her... you DESERVE to be in first place, you deserve to be at the front and any self respecting guy can give you that.

Take care

H&H xx

[tejaspear]

Thanks, H&H!!! I really appreciate your comments!!

[-=RedHawk]

Am I a villain in this scenario?  I am a simple man.  I am a loving man.  I love you, Tejaspear.  Yes, I love the ex.  I love many others, as well.  There is no vice in friendship.

Where would this end?  If I were to yield to this insecurity, who would I need to sacrifice next?  Where would it end?  Or, would it ever end?  Would I need to accept you as my one and only friend in life?

Sweet and precious woman, I know that there is no chance that we can ever go anywhere together, now.  It hurts me a lot, as you know.  As totally beautiful as our relationship has been, it had a cancer.  Unbridled, malignant fear has destroyed the gorgeous body of love that could have been, indeed, that should have been.  There are no solutions.  Fear seeks to destroy.  I regret that fear has won.

I wish you a long and prosperous life, full of love.  I will always think of you and those glorious days and nights we shared, feeling like two teens finding love for the first time.  That's really what it felt like, honey.

Now y'all psuedopsychologists and midnight-therapists knock yourself out.  Blast away!  I am out of here and I ain't comin' back no mo'.  I have to work on recovering emotionally from the most intense love of my life.

-=RedHawk

[tejaspear]

Well, there he was (redhawk above).  I invited him to come share his side of the story. What he said here has pretty much been his schpeel all along.

[tejaspear]

It is my hope for him that this has not all been for naught, and that in time, whether it be months or years, the feedback I have given him will help him to see what he needs to see in order to become a free man one day. If he ever does, I hope he will let me know, because I would be so happy for him.