Stockholm Syndrome...makes no sense and yet it does

[reallyME]

Loosely defined, it's a person relating to the abuser is a hero, due to a distorted idea of the identity of that abuser, because of mind control tactics and manipulation and crafty cooercion used by said abuser, in order to appear as benevolent, rather than sinister and dangerous.

Now, I want to say this.  I have run into this phenomena in people I have counseled and ministered to.  It is both understandable and infuriating to me.

I can't begin to tell you the mixture of compassion and frustration I feel when I hear an abused adult actually DEFEND a mother who lays a "guilt trip" on them as to why they didn't call them every day, adore the gift they gave them and use it in every single room of the house, or just basically devote every waking moment to hearing about all their aches and pains and woes that are nothing more than bids for selfish attention.

When I watch an adult go running over to "mommy's" house, because "if I don't, she'll be mad..." at 40 somethin years old, I'm filled with a mixture of feelings...pity and compassion on the adult-child who never individuated healthfully from her mother, anger at a mother who continues to USE and MANIPULATE a grown adult, and frustration at a family who lived and hid a lie for years and a society who didn't step in and stop it and still doesn't bother to.  I see this over and over again...families walking on eggshells and then a person like me, goes and stays in the home, notices the things that aren't right, the control tactics over the children, etc, yet, when we go to report it, there is such deep family denial and support of the abuser, that nothing is ever done to help...that abuser grows up to have children who grow up to have children and the cycle continues, and NOBODY SHOUTS "the EMPORER IS NAKED!"

[moonlight52]

hi reallyme    can an abuser ever truly be a hero  ?   i mean a hero is not made from pain, fear and terror.
so a child  may treat n parent as hero but is it real no. the n parent is not a hero to himself or his child .
this n parent can fool themselves into believing it but is it real no and as soon as the child of the n parent grows up and finds out what real love ,real respect ,real honor are all about its over.the adult child then knows  what all those real feelings feel like the  house of cards falls .when does the house
of cards fall for the n parent? i do not know .monsters come and go they are big and small but they choose the hardest road of all .
moonlight

[reallyME]

moonlight:  hi reallyme    can an abuser ever truly be a hero  ?   

NOPE and that's just the point.

this n parent can fool themselves into believing it but is it real no and as soon as the child of the n parent grows up and finds out what real love ,real respect ,real honor are all about its over.the adult child then knows  what all those real feelings feel like the  house of cards falls

Well you would think so.  The thing is, even adults will continue to cater to the abusive parent out of feeling guilty around them.  That adult knows what buttons to push...everything from whining to blaming to comparing the child to another "responsible" brother who "loves me more than you do"



 .when does the house
of cards fall for the n parent?

Sometimes NEVER.  The problem is the dysfunction is usually in the entire family unit as a whole.  There is a secret kept about the faulty things going on and everyone pretends things are normal.  If anyone questions, the problems are either brushed under the rug, minimized, hidden, twisted, or projected onto the one who dared to notice and point them out.  N's are MASTERS at projecting things as if YOU, THE ONE WHO SAW THE ISSUE, WAS THE ONE WITH THE REAL PROBLEM.


here is an example of this very thing:

You are always complaining, Lisa!  No I"m not.  I'm just sitting here watching tv.  (at this point, a conversation is started with Lisa, that the other person KNOWS is going to make her upset enough to complain) and then, when the person starts complaining the original one says, "I TOLD you that's all you do is complain"....THOSE TYPES OF THINGS go on in dysfunctional homes and people think it's so funny and cute, except for the VICTIM of it.

~ReallyME

[moonlight52]

reallyme i understand .i guess i am saying what has happened to me as example. also i believe even when it looks like the n parent is
master that  is not the case .even if the child has not awakened the n parent is still a empty shell .
the saddest type person one could ever meet .i love my n dad. i am heart sick knowing the damage hes done to my original family.
and now at 82 i can see hes having a hard time hiding himself from himself .his house of cards are falling .i want to cry for him .i want to hold him .if i tried to do that i can just imagine how angry he would be if i showed him that kind of kindness .
if he was not so toxic i would try to help him but their is nothing i can do.
i have my own family i am not under his spell i am not his object. i understand him better than he knows himself. i love him so .i do not think i could watch him come to realize all the harm he has done .i could not stand to see him hurt that bad. but yet i can not go near him. the house of cards are falling
moonlight

[reallyME]

Hey moon

Today I asked Jodi, the N in my life, regarding a situation between us, "What if I was the minister and it was YOU who was hateful toward me, even though I forgave you, HOW WOULD YOU STILL FEEL ABOUT HAVING HURT ME?"

Do you think Jodi could answer me?

I got ignored.  No answer whatsoever, other than some religious comments, totally off-topic, as usual.

~ReallyME

[write]

This is somewhat the provenance of writers- who are always concerned with counter-themes making a work exciting.

I doubt there is a DSM Stockholm Syndrome - simply because there is no universal response on being released as a prisoner of war or hostage and this has been observed so closely over the past 50 years in various situations.

Very few people 'identify' with their captors, but if they were to- such identification is a survival mechanism.

I am not sure exactly what you are identifying with reallyMe- but The Naked Emperor is an image I have a lot when I see people who do not understand and continue to support something I have found wanting or wrong.

I am sorry Jodi ignores you or uses religious comments to deflect you.

I hope we humble and hurt people here can somehow help you to a place of emotional safety.

[Hopalong]

Here's an interesting article on Love and Stockhold Syndrome:

http://www.mental-health-matters.com/articles/article.php?artID=469

Hops

[reallyME]

   



write: I am not sure exactly what you are identifying with reallyMe- but The Naked Emperor is an image I have a lot when I see people who do not understand and continue to support something I have found wanting or wrong.

write, the Naked Emporer concept comes from the story of the Emporer who had no clothes.  Everyone in the kingdom told him how lovely he looked, when his men fashioned him new clothes with INVISIBLE THREAD, and he paraded down the street...except for one little boy who dared to admit the obvious reality, which was that he actually had NO CLOTHES ON AT ALL!  That's ME..the one who will speak the REALITY every time, even if everyone else despises me and wants to keep on pretending and living the family lie.

I hope we humble and hurt people here can somehow help you to a place of emotional safety.

That's a sweet thought, but I'm as emotionally safe as it gets.  Blessya'll

~ReallyME

[Hopalong]

Hey ReallyME,
When you cut-and-paste somebody's quote, if you then highlight it, and then go up to the thing above that looks like a "thought balloon" with a few lines of writing in it, and click on that, it'll look

like this

and be easier to follow.

I was really happy when somebody explained that to me.

I think it was Portia.

 
Hops

[write]

write, the Naked Emporer concept comes from the story of the Emporer who had no clothes.  Everyone in the kingdom told him how lovely he looked, when his men fashioned him new clothes with INVISIBLE THREAD, and he paraded down the street...except for one little boy who dared to admit the obvious reality, which was that he actually had NO CLOTHES ON AT ALL!  That's ME..the one who will speak the REALITY every time, even if everyone else despises me and wants to keep on pretending and living the family lie.

yes, reallyMe, I am aware of it.

It's an excellent metaphor for life- do I believe this truly or is it just convenient in helping me fit in/ not have to speak out etc

( If it's not too difficult-
what is 'Your Family Lie'? )


That's a sweet thought, but I'm as emotionally safe as it gets.

Good.
Me too.
It's taken me a long time to get safe. As safe as one can make oneself I mean; some victimisers are pernicious, or abuse fundamental relationships.

Many of my havens ( churches, doctors, relationships ) turned out to be ports in the eye of a greater storm....

I still don't have an external spiritual home, ie church.
The churches I have tried so far are all too unhealthy.
Maybe we all at base are a church of one?! I don't know.

I agree with praying- I do it too, and I don't believe in a Devils or a particular Deity. For years I have been saying 'the spirit which moves on the face of the earth' to describe what I mean.

I like the words of Christ, though I feel saddened by the vicarious interpretations and manipulations down the years.

That someone could live 2000 years ago and stand up to the accepted order and offer the solutions he did; it's a travesty that so many people choose to use that rather than learn from it.

You know I passed a church tonight, it said 'A Church with no walls- Pastor/ Founder XXXX XXXX'
I thought- well that's a wall for me right away- why your name is there below Jesus and the Cross?

I do know somehow from experience that tuning in to 'right-mindedness' 'thankfulness' 'beauty' 'grace'
- oh, with all my words, I don't know how to say it....
I feel strongly that the connectedness of life and joint meaning is important.

I guess it's why I am writing now.

[reallyME]

( If it's not too difficult-
what is 'Your Family Lie'? )

oh I'd be glad to share.

My situation was that I grew up in a home with a step-dad that was OCD, OCPD and Paranoid-Schizophrenic.  We had to lie about a lot of things regarding him and our home situation...or shall I say, we were EXPECTED to lie...if you have come to know me through my postings, you probably can figure out that I refused to lie like everyone else, hehe.

When someone called on the phone, we were to answer " He's not home," while he was sitting at the kitchen table staring at me, smoking a cigarette. 

We were told not to let anyone know about the abuse that was going on, but to just say "yes of course Dad spanks us, but he doesn't abuse us" any time anyone inquired about what was going on with the "discipline situation" in our home...even though there was much more to what was going on than that.

~ReallyME

[Hopalong]

ReallyMe,
I'm so sorry.
I can't imagine how awful that must have been for you as a child.
Terrifying, too.

I'm glad you're okay.

Hops

[reallyME]

ReallyMe,
I'm so sorry.
I can't imagine how awful that must have been for you as a child.
Terrifying, too.

I'm glad you're okay.

Hops

Actually it wasn't as awful as it was ANNOYING...I HATED having to LIE, being a good, decent CATHOLIC girl.  I used to say to my step-father, "I will NOT say YOU ARE NOT HOME WHEN YOU ARE RIGHT THERE!  I WILL SAY 'HE IS NOT ABLE TO TAKE YOUR CALL"

As far as the abuse, I did end up TELLING a nun at the catholic high school and had to transfer to the public school, cause the child abuse people were from an office across from where my grandfather worked in a political office, so my parents wanted the information to stop being circulated around the school.  So, I had to leave my friends and go to the public school, so nobody would know that my step-father was an abuser and no investigation would be done.

~ReallyME

[write]

oh reallyMe, I think that's the worst anyone can do to a child- deny their reality.
It has lifelong consequences.

I'm really sorry, and I can picture a small child fielding reality for an adult...what a horrible position to put a child in.
Was it just you or siblings too? Where was your mother?

Children survice addict parents and all kinds of bad situations but once their perceptions and interpretations of reality are questionned it really causes so many problems. When you're a child someone should be taking care of you, not the other way around.

Have you had any therapy?

[reallyME]

write: I'm really sorry, and I can picture a small child fielding reality for an adult...what a horrible position to put a child in.
Was it just you or siblings too? Where was your mother?  Have you had any therapy?

Thank you.  Yes it was a really distorted way to try and have a childhood.  I have a brother, 3 years younger that myself, as well as a half-brother and half-sister from the step-dad and my mom.  My mother was there, terrified and always trying to keep things quiet from the world, telling me "if you just would stop mouthing off, dad would not hit you.  you KNOW how he gets!"  What a friggen CONFUSING BLAMEFUL message to give to a child!

I've had TONS of therapy, went to/taught/teach Codependents Anonymous group and counseling

~ReallyME