Do all N come from a dysfunctional background?

[poetprose]

I was wondering if sociopaths, and N's  become this way from their dysfunctional upbringing? or is it that they are just born this way from bad genes....


i think back to my dad and i know he had some sociopathic traits, but considering what hell had to go through as a child i think maybe circumstances may mold them

what is everybody elses thoughts

[Brigid]

Poetprose,
I don't think there is a hard and fast answer to that question.  I think in most cases, it is probably a combination of nature and nurture.  Obviously, many of us here grew up in very difficult situations, but still turned out to be loving, caring individuals--albeit probably a little (or a lot) messed up by the experience.  Others can be raised in similar situations and turn into serial killers, someone with n characteristics, and all levels in between.

I believe that how we process the dysfunction of our childhoods has to do with a myriad of things--our personality types, birth order, whether we had a positive role model actively in our lives, maybe even our astrological sign--who knows.

However, I do believe that someone can be born into a perfectly lovely home environment, with loving parents and other family members, but somehow there are wires crossed in their very complex brains, and they turn into a sociopath, psychopath or somehow mentally unbalanced.  I also have a family member who adopted an infant boy, raised him in a very loving environment, but he still turned into a very violent, disturbed young man.  His biological father is in jail for murder--so in that case it was almost all nature.

Brigid

[marekish]

 I am almost posivitve it is a learned behavior that is in curable as it is shame based and N cannot deal with shame, mostly due to parental shaming in childhood that was traumatic to them.  One N I know was made fun of the way she walked, talked, laughed and danced.  And you wonder why they are disordered in adulthood.

Marekish

[axa]

Marekish,

Agree that it is shame based and Ns cannot go there.  To acknowledge a sense of shame makes one vulnerable and meet oneself in a way that is so difficult.  Ns spend their lives defending against this place, hence everything is everyone elses fault.

axa

[Gaining Strength]

My middle brother is out of town visiting his fiance.  I am at his house watching his 15 year old son.  He can be contrary and difficult.  He has had a very sad life - raised between two Ns.  I was sitting here thinking about him and suddenly I thought about this.  His father who has had severe N tendencies is suddenly (in the last year) quite different - pleasant even.

What is the difference?  For 17 years he was married to my nephew's mother, one of the meanest, most unkind, demanding, ungiving, highly critical people i have known (and i have known a few).  After she demanded a divorce 18 months ago he remained unbearable to be around;  self centered, vilely mean, someone I simply decided to have nothing to do with.

Last May he met his fiance.  She is a remarkably kind, giving, energetic, full of life person.  He is now a very different person.  What is the difference?

This new person in his life is supportive and helpful and encouraging.  His former wife took every opportunity to criticize and put down.  Not long after they were married, my brother had a downturn in his career.  She was belittling to him and about him, dog-mouthing him to his friends, familly, anyone who would listen.  She did this about any difficulty he ran into.  She would rant and rave if something anything displeased her. 

What amazes me about this is how much my brother has changed in such a short time after such a sustained period of being a jerk.  Honestly a year ago I would have thought my brother was an N, now I just thing his N tendencies (that have always been present) were exacerbated by being in relationship with a real N (no empathy, me, me, me).  It is really something to see someone change so dramatically just by being cared about by someone kind.

[isittoolate]

Great story GS. Love it and happy he has turned around.

When I discovered he was an N I read until I nearly wore out my brain, to understand what I had experienced. I believe that an N is made by the parents, whether iit is over attention, like Golden Boy, Scott Peterson, or if it is lack of attention to the point that the child has to invent his own life.

N was the product of a back-seat romp and given away for adoption. The families of the adoptive parents never accepted him, as he was not  "true-blood related" and he would hear them say that one day his parents would regret it. Also his adoptive parents were both over 40, and from what I heard, really ought not to have adopted, but then they adopted again, a girl. She and the N keep well part from one another.

He stole, set fires, smoked, smoked dope, began drinkiing at age 11, was sexually molested in the park after being seduced with liquour. (IN here I ought to mention that I have a copy of his story about his life and he doesn't know it. This is where details differ far from what I was told.)He didn't like the oral sex with this dirty old man but he kept going back for the liquor. This was found out but the father wanted it covered up for 'appearances sake".

He kept stealing, even cars and was jailed overnight for one theft.

He, at 17, impregnated a 14 year oold girl, and spent jail time for statuatory rape. first he followed her to where her parents took her asnd they ran away together and he sold his body, to men on the streets, for spending money. (Have you read that some Ns might be bi-sexual or homosexual?)

After the jail time, he got in touch with one of the 'gay' guys he had met and moved in with him. A bunch of guys living together and going to work----finally left-- said he beat the guy to a pulp, the the sex was too painful

Went back home and kept drinking and doing foolish things.

Then left again to go work, and in a drunken state, drag racing down a highway against a buddy of his, hit a car and killed a 15 year old girl.

Jail time again.

His story is one of sex addiction, porn addiction, alcoholism, the taking of dope (I don't know about dope so don't know how to phrase that)

And this was the charming man from whom I bought a computer and who charmed me beyond belief with just a minute amount of his troubles. We dated, dinner, movies, strolls in the park, visiting his friends. {After we were a solid item we moved here to estabilsh a computer business.  I did the books and it worked until left him and the business then failed.}

Then he found his birth mother.

Oh boy! When I met her I thought she was a Woodstock case! After giving N away, she had another son but was married now, then had 3 more after that but different fathers.

Other son is a dope addict and alcoholic, 2 daughters are alcoholics. last daughter is a born again Christian.

Other son has a bald spot on the top of his head from when he was born on some wooden floor while mommy managed to dent his head with the wooden heels of the shoes she was wearing.

N says he loves his birth mother. (Love? She is  a "skank", as he would call other women like her.) We met his birth father too. N doesn't like him. I can tell why. Father is too much like N.

What a miserable bunch. Birth father on second marriage and he wouldn't allow her children or grandchildren to set foot on the property because there was illegitamacy involved.

THEN WHAT???????

N comes out of the woodwork.  (Lucy! you got some splainin' to do!!!!!!) Wife told me all this and was in tears before 10 minutes passed of our arrival. {He has 3 sons from his first marriage and was so strict, then he had to tell them all about the back-seat romp when he was about 16}

In the meantime this is when N is acting charming and like the best thing in the world but in hindsight, I saw a few slips.

There you go--birth parents and adoptive parents for this N.

Glad I am free.

Izzy

[Gaining Strength]

The families of the adoptive parents never accepted him, as he was not  "true-blood related" and he would hear them say that one day his parents would regret it. Also his adoptive parents were both over 40,

This almost describes my late husband's experience.  He was adopted by his maternal grandfather and his grandfather's second wife who was just over 40.  He was his adoptive mother's only child.  She was one of 7 siblings and they never accepted him as "family".  I actually experienced that first hand.

My father's family was the same way.  My uncle had four chidren and then adopted two more.  I never met the two youngest and they were always referred to as his adoptive children.  I really see this as clue to the damage/disfunction of the N spawning family system.

[Margo]

I was wondering if sociopaths, and N's  become this way from their dysfunctional upbringing? or is it that they are just born this way from bad genes....


i think back to my dad and i know he had some sociopathic traits, but considering what hell had to go through as a child i think maybe circumstances may mold them

what is everybody elses thoughts

From what I've read and understood...... children are born with certain character traits..... parents and environment can make them more, or less, what they were born to be. 

Sociopaths, people who have no moral compasses...... are sometimes born that way but usually have trauma in their early lives such as many different foster homes in so many years.....  Not bonding with caregivers.  I read that the business world is full of sociopaths.  Some sociopaths are more exptreme than others.

If children have abusive parents or parents who can't provide the minimum stage appropriate support, children's minds become distorded and disordered in many ways.  Not all become sociopaths.  My guess is we all have basic temperaments and they become stronger or more tempered by our experiences. 

Margo