Author Topic: Of all the things . . .  (Read 6112 times)

tayana

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2007, 11:33:30 AM »
My dad will do anything, anything to protect my mom.  He would bend over backwards for her no matter how badly she treats him.

I told him I didn't like her calling M at daycare or school or anywhere but at my home.  I think it's inappropriate.

I feel like I've done something terrible, telling him I don't want to go out there, but I'm so tired of these games and this nonsense. 

Is it so terribly wrong to want to protect my mental health and my son? 

Why do I feel so damned guilty about erecting this boundary?

Is it so wrong that I want to feel good?  I felt good earlier this week, now I don't feel like doing anything.
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You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
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cats paw

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2007, 12:08:38 PM »
Tay,

  NO is is not wrong.  I can so recognize the slide into guilt and feeling bad.  Try to tease the issues apart from one another.

  Most of all, try to separate rational from irrational guilt, and also when shame and fear creep in.

  When you say "I felt good earlier this week, now I don't feel like doing anything" what are the results?  Who ultimately wins if you 
  end up feeling bad enough to hobble yourself?  The spider, even if you are nowhere near the physical web.

   Here's a protective circle in which to place the gains you have made for M and for yourself.

cats paw   

Poppy Seed

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2007, 12:33:24 PM »
My dad will do anything, anything to protect my mom.  He would bend over backwards for her no matter how badly she treats him.

I told him I didn't like her calling M at daycare or school or anywhere but at my home.  I think it's inappropriate.

I feel like I've done something terrible, telling him I don't want to go out there, but I'm so tired of these games and this nonsense. 

Is it so terribly wrong to want to protect my mental health and my son? 

Why do I feel so damned guilty about erecting this boundary?

Is it so wrong that I want to feel good?  I felt good earlier this week, now I don't feel like doing anything.

Tayana, 

I so know how you feel.  I feel this all the time.  I think we feel guilty because we have been trained to.  We have been trained to feel responsible for others feelings.   The truth is that we are not.  I get confused here a lot with regards to my own varied situations.  Try to trust that inner voice inside you.  The one you heard earlier in the week.  And call out the guilt and make it separate from you, so you can observe it and identify how truthful that feeling is.

It is difficult that your father will always protect your mother.  How much easier this would be if he could see what you see.  But you don't need him.  If he does choose to try and understand your feelings, then he will only gain from that.  I just don't think he can go against her.  His losses would be to high.

I think it is about owning our lives and our choices.  Trust that owning.  Walk into that owning and anchor yourself to that power.  It will help you trust your voice and trust your ability to handle the true mistakes you make ..... if and when you make them.  You can always course correct in the owning.  It is THAT voice that tells us truth about our falibility. Not the reactions of others  -- which are usually about them and have little to do with us to begin with.

Detachment will help.  Put up that bubble around you where your F's reactions bounce off.  Observe them......if you need to to understand him.  But they are not a reflection of who and what you are.   It would be nice if he could give you validation.  But it appears to me that  too much of his own safety hangs in the balance.  Or maybe his just confused by your comments and behavior and doesn't know what to do with that. (guessing.....) Or maybe he needs some time to process before he can see the truth about what is happening here.

Poppy

Ami

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2007, 12:34:59 PM »
Dear Tayana,
 I see you falling in to "predictable " patterns.I could see the 'guilt" coming. They have made their "move". Your old "counter move" would be guilt and THEN giving in. You are at a crucial "crossroads now(IMO).
  i wanted to tell you about my F. He has seen the light( after 13 years). Last night I was asking him if he thought that he was wrong for sticking up for my M when she was hurting us. He said ,"Yes,he was wrong."
However, my point is that for my whole life he was the co-abuser. He would call up and "make everything all right".The price was "me" again( and everyone else)
 Until he saw the light, he was a co-abuser. I think that your F is a co-abuser. I would just be careful of your "alliances " with him .I think that in the end ,he will chose her, which means against you ,unfortunately.
  The stakes are high for your M b/c I don't think that anyone really ever went against her before.It is all new ground in your  family,now.I would stay close to the board b/c the board will be the voice of sanity in an insane situation               Love to You  Ami                        Compost..............as usual
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

tayana

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2007, 02:49:55 PM »
I did some work (gasp . . . at work).  It did at least keep me from feeling too low, but now I'm back at my desk.  And I don't feel so good.

I don't really feel guilty as much as I feel hurt.  I'm just hurt that my parents don't think I matter.  That everything I do is aimed at hurting or shaming them.  I'd hoped my dad would be somewhat understanding, but he wasn't.  He wouldn't even see my side of the story.  He didn't want to listen how much my mother has hurt me, just told me to "work it out."

And why the hell does everyone call me at work . . .

Ami, you're right.  I think my dad is a co-abuser because he just lets things go on, even though he knows it's wrong.  He doesn't want to help me.  It's fine for me to suffer through legal battles and try to deal with all of this alone.  He doesn't want to hear my side of things.

I'm hurt that I'm made out to be the bad girl because I don't want to talk to my mother, who's very toxic and nasty, and I can't trust.  I'm so tired of this.  I'm just tired period.

I wish I could go home and just be alone for a little while.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

tayana

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2007, 03:35:01 PM »
Shunned, M and I are going to a party for his DARE group at school when I get him.  We're having pizza, and then going over to the Target to get some Halloween stuff.  I was pretty excited about it, now I don't really want to go.

I was reading about estranged families.  It says that children of adult children estranged from their families are like to be estranged from their parents.  That made me feel even worse.  My mother is psycho and abusive and staying away from her means that my son will eventually be estranged from me?  Somehow that doesn't seem right.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Hopalong

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2007, 05:58:16 PM »
Don't believe some vague study about whether Michael will be estranged from you...that's just some study. You are not a statistic and neither is M!

Tay, I tuned into this:

Quote
I'm hurt that I'm made out to be the bad girl


Of course that's hurtful. Ultimately, though, the key thing is made out to be ___.

The strength you're growing inside, that you've taken such a HUGE step toward, that you're anchoring with every minute you don't fold and go crawling back for more abuse...you're just getting started. You ARE going to get comfortable with all this in time. You ARE going to feel peaceful with all these decisions in time. You ARE going to live in a new community with friends around you (and healthy mentors for M) in time.

This is all just very new. It's natural that you're going to have waves of hurt and fatigue. I just want to offer you this to hold onto: it IS going to get easier and better and then even GOOD, with time.

Meanwhile, you can take small chunks of time and small steps and hold your ground and soon you'll be standing on your new ground so firmly that you won't have to "hold on" to stay there. It'll be as natural to you as eating breakfast.

Trust yourself. You are living toward a happier future.

xo
Hops
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finding peace

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2007, 07:04:15 PM »
Hi Tay,

Yes it hurts.  It hurts deeply.

You may not be in a place where you can hear this right now because of the pain but please keep it in the back of your mind, it may help later. 

The shift from guilt to hurt is a good one.  Feeling hurt, as unbelievable as this will sound, is a good sign. 

Guilt rises out of a feeling of having done something wrong.  Hurt arises from having been wronged.  It was the pain of the realization of how deeply I was betrayed that gave me the impetus to pull myself out of that toxic situation.  In retrospect, I realize that without that pain, I would have stayed in the guilt stage having my buttons pushed and jumping through the endless hoops to try and make them happy – which will never happen. 

Without that hurt, I would not have found the strength to say enough, no more.  My life is mine.  You have stolen my childhood, you have stolen my young adult life.  No more – the rest of my life is mine.

It took awhile for me to work through the hurt – then the anger hit (I call it the black rage).  I don’t know if this will be the same with you, but something that might come up.  If the anger comes, use it.  Use it to strengthen that determination to stay NC.   

As far as your father saying that M must have misunderstood.  My first reaction was puh-leaasssseeeee.  I am sorry I hope that doesn’t offend.  What possible reason would M have for saying something like that?  I have no doubt he (your son) told you the truth. 

As far as the days you need to find coverage for M.  Do you have any local colleges?  You might try contacting them for students who are in early learning education programs or in psychology majors who are looking for part time work.  M might benefit, because you would have babysitters trained with Asperger’s and the cost might be reduced, especially if you can work it in with the college as credit for the students.  Another resource might be Asperger’s groups.  Professional babysitters might also be an option. 

You said you don’t trust M to be alone with her.  I agree.  I never allowed unsupervised visits with my parents.

You also said:
Quote
any enthusiasm I felt for the holidays is totally gone now.
Quote

I had the same feeling.  Last year was the first year that I did not spend the holidays with my FOO, after 40 some odd years.  Instead of letting it get me down, I decided that it was going to be the year where we made our own traditions in my real family (h and kids).  It was the best and most relaxing holiday I have ever had.  And for the first time since I can remember, I am looking forward to the holidays this year.

This could be the first year to start traditions for you and M.  Go to the store – have him help you buy decorations and decorate your house.  Cook his favorite meal x-mas eve.  Or, even go on a trip, just the 2 of you. 

If you are worried about gifts for the holiday and want to be prepared just in case – you could get gift cards.  If the NC has continued through the holidays (as I pray it will – I am sorry if that sounds harsh - I worry about you and M in contact with your Mother), spend the gift card on you or M, with the knowledge that you have earned that gift (over a lifetime!).

Better yet – I say take the money you would have spent on gifts and put it toward a professional babysitter to stay with M on those days that you don’t have coverage.

Tay – my heart is breaking for you and M.  I so understand everything you are going through.  It is ugly, there is no way around the ugly except to say it is what it is.

It gets easier with time.  You have made so many changes in a short period of time – and have done a wonderful job of it.  Please be gentle with yourself right now.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tayana))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

PS:  You said:  She's made it clear she thinks I'm the devil's spawn.  I had a laugh at this one (dark humor) - my immediate thought was .......guess that makes her the devil – eh?
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tayana

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2007, 11:50:31 PM »
Hops, FP, thanks for the advice.  I just sat with my journal and thought about how I was really feeling tonight.  It was sort of a combination of hurt, sad, abandoned, and angry.  No guilt.  I don't feel guilty, just hurt and sad.  I am feeling pretty low tonight.  I guess I'm pretty disappointed too.  I'd hoped my dad would be more sympathetic, not just say, "i don't know what to tell you, you're going to have to patch things up with your mother eventually."

But I don't want to, because I don't see what there is to patch up.  This is all some delusion of my mom's, and I'm tired of this game.

Hops said:

Quote
The strength you're growing inside, that you've taken such a HUGE step toward, that you're anchoring with every minute you don't fold and go crawling back for more abuse...you're just getting started. You ARE going to get comfortable with all this in time. You ARE going to feel peaceful with all these decisions in time. You ARE going to live in a new community with friends around you (and healthy mentors for M) in time.

I do feel stronger.  I don't feel like I can face my parents, and I certainly don't think I could deal with seeing them right now, but I'm getting there.  I'm looking into some social groups or something where I might be able to meet people.  I wish I lived in a more liberal area, and not such a conservative one.

Quote
It took awhile for me to work through the hurt – then the anger hit (I call it the black rage).  I don’t know if this will be the same with you, but something that might come up.  If the anger comes, use it.  Use it to strengthen that determination to stay NC.   

I've been angry.  I was so angry when I moved because I'd just found out about the financial mess my mother had made for me, and that there was a possibility my wages would be garnished for something I didn't even owe.  I'm familiar with this one.  I did pretty well until I got settled and none of the things I was afraid of came to pass, then I started to feel guilty.  I got moved, and the first session with my T after moving, I totally fell apart because my mother had made me feel so guilty.

I can make M go to the daycare all day.  He won't like it, but we can try it.  It might go better than I think.  I like your suggestion though.

I don't think M misunderstood either.  I think he heard exactly what he told me.  He interprets things very literally, and so I'm sure of what he heard.  He doesn't usually lie either.

Quote
This could be the first year to start traditions for you and M.  Go to the store – have him help you buy decorations and decorate your house.  Cook his favorite meal x-mas eve.  Or, even go on a trip, just the 2 of you.

I wanted to do this, but I don't have the energy.  I had planned to decorate for Halloween and fall and everything, but now I just don't feel like it.  Thinking of the holidays just makes me sad.  Maybe it'll get better, like you said.  Your holiday sounds wonderful.

I decided I want to spend my weekend making the apt.  pretty.  Hang some more curtains, that sort of thing.  I'm tired of the bedrooms looking a mess and only half lived in.  I just won't think about my parents and concentrate on positive things.  Maybe I'll try that fish recipe out and see if M will eat it.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

lighter

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2007, 10:51:09 AM »
Tay... I think  you're going to continue to bang your head up against that unsatisfying wall.... of your father and mother's... until you finally understand that it's never going to change.

You get a little time away and the hope sneaks back in.

Then you get knocked back again.... then the hope sneaks back in.

The saying.... 'it's hope that kills us' makes so much sense.

It sounds like you're father is completely under your mother's spell.  He just felt her irrational wrath over the imagined visit with you (like that was some punishable crime if it DID happen) and even now he's defending her, at M's expense: (

M's not safe with your mother..... even when your father's around. 

No more visits with her for M, I'm afraid.  She called it herself.  You don't even have to explain it to M.  She did it for you.

You have new winter coats.  It doesn't seem like there's any reason at all to go back to that house. 

If you do take a truck and try to load up, don't be surprised if she pulls some outrageous stunt, like calling the cops, to throw you off.

I hope you can just walk away from the stuff, and not be too bothered. 

I think you and your brother have it right.... she's her wheels are coming off.  M's too important to be in or neat that cart, IMO. 

So are you  ((tay))



tayana

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2007, 01:49:23 PM »
LIghter, I'm starting to understand that things aren't going to change.  I sort of hoped they would, I guess.  I thought maybe when I told my father about my mother's latest stunt that he'd be angry, instead he was sitting in the room with her.  He condoned her actions.  It's not respectful to me or to M.  I did get a little bit of hope, and I just ended up getting hurt.

I was reading this morning about putting distance between me and my FOO.  I'm going to work on it with my T.  I do have to think about my stuff, there's some things I do want, like some boxes of pictures and things like that.

I felt yucky this morning, kind of sick, but I think it was side effect from my medication, and that I stayed up too late watching a video.   I don't feel as depressed though.  M and I are going to a Halloween Party later today.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

finding peace

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2007, 10:26:56 PM »
Hi Tay,

Just wanted you to know I am thinking about you tonight and hope that you are doing better.

You said that you were feeling a combination of hurt, sad, abandoned, and angry. 

This reminds me of how I feel when I grieve. 

What you are going through is so hard; giving up that hope that things can get better is so very hard. 

You are so strong Tay - in so many ways.  You will get through this period, and I know once you get over this hurdle it will get better.
 
Take care of you,

Peace 
- Life is a journey not a destination

tayana

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2007, 11:23:53 PM »
Thanks, FP, I feel a little better, not great.  I have to admit that I didn't really feel like doing a whole today, and I didn't really.  Although I did buy some books . . . I didn't really need books, but I got sort of carried away.

I nobly refrained from buying any house stuff.  I have a tendency to want to spend money when I'm down, and so I have to weigh each purchase, "am I really going to use/read/wear this?"  otherwise I feel worse about spending the money.  House stuff and clothes seem to be the things that I do it the most with.  So, although I looked, I chose to wait on those purchases.  I'm working really hard on this.

I don't know that I can call what I'm feeling grieving.  I suppose it is in a way.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

finding peace

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2007, 06:40:04 PM »
Well Tay –

Had a visit from the old black rage today. I had a very similar experience to the one you had recently.

My mother dropped by today with no advanced warning.

She came into my house uninvited.  I was upstairs working and did not go downstairs. 

She had presents for the girls. 

She went back outside with the girls.  The door was open.  She started talking very loudly (most likely in the hopes that I would hear), and said:

"I miss you girls terribly.  I keep asking for a visit but your mother won’t allow it."

"[4 yo daughter's name] your cousin misses you sooooo much and really wants to see you but your mother won't allow it."

She left shortly after dropping those 2 lovely little bombs (and before I could calm down enough to politely ask her to remove herself from my property and to never return).

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Still shaking my head - they never do change.  It doesn't surprise me so much anymore.  Now to, once again, clean up the mess she leaves behind.  Unfortunately for her - this will backfire, because now I will have to explain (in an age appropriate way if possible  :?) why I don't allow them to go visit her.

At first I was thinking about writing a blistering e-mail to inform her that she is never to come to my house, ever.  Came to my senses tho - if I send that, no matter what it says, she will just see it as a crack in the door to try and sssssslither her way back in. 

I am considering a restraining order tho - I wonder if that will work.  Will have to look into it.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


(are you doing ok today?  I and glad you took some time for yourself.  I love escaping into books, it used to be the only way to quiet my mind - very relaxing.)

[On edit:  Sorry for venting on your thread!]
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 07:33:27 PM by finding peace »
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Gaining Strength

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Re: Of all the things . . .
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2007, 10:38:06 PM »
Quote
It says that children of adult children estranged from their families are like to be estranged from their parents.

More likely because many who are estranged are not striving to help themselves and live in resentment.  You are devoting your life to make things better for your son and yourself.  Your son will not be estranged from you.  You are a devoted mother.  You are often overly critical of your mothering.  Do you think you mother has EVER judged her mothering harshly?  She has never bothered to consider her mothering at all.  You worry yourself sick about each thing you do as a mother.  You love your son and you care and he knows that.  I don't believe that children become alienated from loving, devoted mothers.