Author Topic: Question about alcoholism  (Read 2417 times)

tayana

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Question about alcoholism
« on: December 05, 2007, 11:38:03 AM »
My father had always been a heavy drinker.  He and my mom used to have some uproarious fights about his drinking.  He would come home drunk.  He and my brother would buy a twelve pack and drink six cans each.  They would drink and drive.  My mother always told my dad that he was an alcoholic.  Of course, I don't believe half of what she says.  I read in one of the books I've read recently, that you can be an alcoholic even if you don't get drunk every night, and some of those who do get drunk aren't alcoholics.

My father suddenly quit drinking after he was pulled over by a state trooper for drunk driving.  He didn't get a ticket or anything, but he just quit drinking, cold turkey, afterwards.  I have always thought that my father was severely depressed, but he would never admit that.  Although he no longer drinks, he now reads constantly.  In fact, he will spend whole days doing nothing but reading.  We aren't talking a few hours, we're talking the man reads sex to seven full length books a week. 

I'm curious if other people think he was an alcoholic, and he's traded one addiction for another.  Or if he's one of those people who got drunk all the time, but wasn't addicted.
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Overcomer

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Re: Question about alcoholism
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2007, 11:50:44 AM »
I don't know about these things.  My husband says he is not an alcoholic but drinks whenever he can.  Then he will be sober for awhile.  I used to think I was an alcoholic but I pretty much gave up drinking.  My friends, on the other hand, are in their late 40s and still party like it's 1999........if he does not drink and hasn't for a long time then my guess he just has a problem with alcohol but it hasn't taken over his life.
Kelly

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BonesMS

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Re: Question about alcoholism
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2007, 12:21:07 PM »
Speaking from experience...it's not what you drink, how much you drink, or how frequently you drink...it is what the drink does to you.

Bones
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Gabben

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Re: Question about alcoholism
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2007, 12:23:43 PM »
Hi Tayana,

I am a "recovered" alcoholic, which does not mean that I drink without problem it just means that I am recovered because I no longer have any desire to drink as a matter of fact I recoil from the thought of drinking as if it were a hot flame. The original plan of recovery in the AA big book uses the word "recovered." The term recovering came about in the 1970's in treatment centers. After the 1970's the recovery rate of alcoholism dropped more than 60%. When the original plan was introduced in the 40's, the recovery rate was 90%, that is correct, 90%!! Today the recovery rate is 4%, no joke.

I started attending AA meeting when I was 17, that was over 20 years ago -- saved my life! The wisdom and most especially the day in - out hearing about "rigorous honesty" saved me from a life of lies and potential pain that I could have caused others. For most of my teens and part of my early twenties I cursed God for steering me into the 12 step process so early in my life. I used to compain that spirituality had ruined my potential drinking career :P Now I am eternally grateful to God for His guidance and love that carried me into AA.

It took me many years to fall in love with the program, I still don't like everyone at meetings, there are many sick people (I used to be one of them :P), some people are still really in heavy denial, I can see that and I try to cultivate compassion but keep my distance. Most people simple just don't drink and go to meetings. Just not drinking and attending meetings is considered being a "dry drunk." Living a life of daily moral inventory (looking at ourselves), and trying to grow spiritually, which mean trying to grow in love and relationship with God is what the program is REALLY all about.

If you were to read the AA big book you would be utterly amazed at the wisdom and depth of insight into normal everyday human behavior, not just for the alcoholic. This is why every other addiction has adopted the plan of recovery which is really all about repentance, restitution, prayer and service. But most importantly it is about becoming a genuine loving person all the while accepting our on-going healing and flaws.


AA gets a bad rap, it is very much stigmatized in our society. So does healing the inner child concept. It seems that anything that is REALLY GOOD and really truth based gets watered down and stigmatized over the years.

Sorry for the long diatribe -- your post has hit a spot in me :D

Lise


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FROM THE AA BIG BOOK:

Chapter 3
More About Alcoholism
Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.

We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals usually brief were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.

We are like men who have lost their legs; they never grow new ones. Neither does there appear to be any kind of treatment which will make alcoholics of our kind like other men. We have tried every imaginable remedy. In some instances there has been brief recovery, followed always by a still worse relapse. Physicians who are familiar with alcoholism agree there is no such thing a making a normal drinker out of an alcoholic. Science may one day accomplish this, but it hasn't done so yet.

Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self- deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right-about- face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!

Here are some of the methods we have tried: Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums we could increase the list ad infinitum.

We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself, step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.

Though there is no way of proving it, we believe that early in our drinking careers most of us could have stopped drinking. But the difficulty is that few alcoholics have enough desire to stop while there is yet time. We have heard of a few instances where people, who showed definite signs of alcoholism, were able to stop for a long period because of an overpowering desire to do so. Here is one.

A man of thirty was doing a great deal of spree drinking. He was very nervous in the morning after these bouts and quieted himself with more liquor. He was ambitious to succeed in business, but saw that he would get nowhere if he drank at all. Once he started, he had no control whatever. He made up his mind that until he had been successful in business and had retired, he would not touch another drop. An exceptional man, he remained bone dry for twenty-five years and retired at the age of fifty-five, after a successful and happy business career. Then he fell victim to a belief which practically every alcoholic has that his long period of sobriety and self-discipline had qualified him to drink as other men. Out came his carpet slippers and a bottle. In two months he was in a hospital, puzzled and humiliated. He tried to regulate his drinking for a little while, making several trips to the hospital meantime. Then, gathering all his forces, he attempted to stop altogether and found he could not. Every means of solving his problem which money could buy was at his disposal. Every attempt failed. Though a robust man at retirement, he went to pieces quickly and was dead within four years.

This case contains a powerful lesson. most of us have believed that if we remained sober for a long stretch, we could thereafter drink normally. But here is a man who at fifty-five years found he was just where he had left off at thirty. We have seen the truth demonstrated again and again: "Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic." Commencing to drink after a period of sobriety, we are in a short time as bad as ever. If we are planning to stop drinking , there must be no reservation of any kind, nor any lurking notion that someday we will be immune to alcohol.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 12:24:01 PM by Gabben »

tayana

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Re: Question about alcoholism
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2007, 02:13:00 PM »
Gabben, thanks for posting that excerpt.  My dad is sort of like the example.  He swears he doesn't even miss drinking.  He just stopped about 2 years ago, and hasn't had a drop since.  Of course, I liked him better before he stopped.  He at least talked about things, now he's just morose all the time.  He doesn't complain at all, just encourages me to do what my nmom wants.  At least when he was drinking, he still had a little fire left.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Overcomer

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Re: Question about alcoholism
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2007, 04:43:04 PM »
I like what was said-it is how they change.  It is the Jekyl/Hyde Characteristic.  My H is a mean drunk and I told him many times if he were a nice drunk I would be so much better with it.
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

gratitude28

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Re: Question about alcoholism
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2007, 09:04:00 AM »
Tayana,
Everyone's level of what they can accept is different. I am an alcoholic. No one in my life (or very few) would have said I was. I know the truth and how deep I sunk (for me). I wasn't arrested, never got pulled over, but all of those things could have happened. Additionally, you may never have realized how much he drank - we are good at hiding it.
A person can handle as much as his values allow him to handle. Maybe being pulled over was something so horrifyingly embarrassing to him that he couldn't imagine sinking lower. My low point was simply an extended sickening binge. No one but me knew, but I knew I had had enough.
When you go to AA, you can fill yourself with community. There is a hole where the time used to be filled with drinking. There is also a large, unexplored part of you that needs attention if you wish to live well. Even those who start to make the journey find they have cross addictions - gambling, spending money, or, in your dad's case, reading. Alcoholism is a symptom of a bigger disease. We use it to hide. So those other addictions are also a way of hiding. Only once you address the issue can you start to treat the addictions.
You have said your dad is possibly gay. And married to a cruel woman on top of it. He is not himself and not living a worthy life - or a real life. So this is his way of escape.
My father is ridiculously neat. Their house is a pigsty with pockets of clean and order. He also reads and ties flies constantly. And he drinks. And he pretends...
Hope this helps somewhat. Are you just curious? What do you plan to do with the knowledge?
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

gratitude28

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Re: Question about alcoholism
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2007, 09:21:56 AM »
Lise,
Thanks for the excerpt from the Big Book. I have not been going to meetings for a while. I miss them and miss being active in the program. I still live by the principles, but would like to try meetings here. We had a bit of a "holier-than-thou" group at our last place and we were so small that I got tired of the games (we're still human and flawed!!!). So... I loved reading the words that are so sweet and I think I'll get my high-bottom (no, alas, not my rear end) off to a meeting soon.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Ami

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Re: Question about alcoholism
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2007, 09:25:58 AM »
I never have been "drunk". The most I ever had(at one time) was 2 glasses of wine. HOWEVER, a friend brought me to AA and I 'fit ( and  stayed). It is about your"insides'(of course) --not the amount of alcohol. It could be alcohol, smoking, eating, shopping,  reading ,other people, anything.
  I FEEL that "hole'inside me ,now.
  I started feeling it last night. I "touched'it gingerly,just to see what it felt like. How many times could I keep 'medicating" it? I am so tired.
   Trying to fill that hole is so compelling that you will do just about anything.Also, you keep making the "trip"--over and over for the "prize". The prize is that you can give YOURSELF a drop of love and acceptance --that you can hold your own hand and proclaim your own value. It  would be so much easier to do that than look for it in "flawed"others.
  However, usually you pick yourself up and start the search again--so much effort--so much life blood  going out. For What?
  For What------- to rewrite your sad history, to find a mother's love again after all these years and all these" trys"
  To finally be rocked in the arms of love and only get up when YOU are ready.That is the deepest hole for me. I want to find a set of "arms" and only get up when I am ready.                     Ami
 
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

tayana

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Re: Question about alcoholism
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2007, 12:06:52 PM »
Bean, I think the real reason my father stopped drinking was to get my mother off his back.  End of story.  They would have these hellacious fights when he was drinking.  At one point, I had packed a bag because the fighting was so bad, and I was afraid someone was going to hurt someone.  For the most part, my dad was a happy drunk.  He was funny, and even charming, unless he was mad.  If he was mad, then his temper was a little scary.  Now that he's stopped drinking he's very anti-social.  If you visit he talks for 20 minutes, then goes off on his own. 

He used to hide his beer in the garage and lie about how many he'd had.  He'd have black-outs.  My mom was certain he was having strokes.  She was terrifed he was going to die and leave her alone.  She always said, "I don't know what we'd do if something happened to your father."  The truth was, I was making almost as much  money as my dad.  I could have lived on my own, even if things would have been tight.

Beth, I'm mostly just curious and trying to understand some things.  That's all really.  Some of the reading I've done makes me wonder about my whole family structure and various different things.  I might talk to my T about it.  I'm seeing her Monday.
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You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
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SilverLining

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Re: Question about alcoholism
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2007, 01:38:37 PM »
Although he no longer drinks, he now reads constantly.  In fact, he will spend whole days doing nothing but reading.  We aren't talking a few hours, we're talking the man reads sex to seven full length books a week. 



I think it is possible for constant reading to be a destructive avoidance behavior and it may even be physically addictive.   I've seen people walking, jogging even bike riding in the park near my home with contraptions set up so they can read while exercising.  Sure looks like an addiction to me. 

So it does seem to me reading could be an addictive substitute for alcohol.  Maybe your father was not physically dependent on alcohol, so it was easy to make the switch.     I believe in the 12 step programs such people  are called "dry drunks".  They may have gotten off one specific substance or behavior, but they haven't really addressed the roots of their addictive tendencies.   

Reading is one of the primary activities of my N-autistic father, and he did have a phase of problems with alcohol.   He can't relate to people so he reads instead.   Now that he's in his 70's, he's seems to be increasingly confusing what he reads with shared "reality".  For instance he'll do speeches about things he read as if he directly experienced it himself.  And what he reads is obviously far more real to him than anything that might be communicated by other people.  It makes for some very unsatisfying interactions, to say the least.

 

« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 05:06:02 PM by tjr100 »

Gabben

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Re: Question about alcoholism
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2007, 01:45:44 PM »
 I believe in the 12 step programs  such people  are called "dry drunks".  They may have gotten off one specific substance or behavior, but they haven't really addressed the roots of their addictive tendencies.   



Excellant - Exactly! Very good insight.

Thank you tjr
Lise

Gabben

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Re: Question about alcoholism
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2007, 01:54:50 PM »
And Bones and Gabben, thank you for your bravery, cause I think it takes a lot of self-awareness to label oneself and to take on the stigma - I do agree that it exists.

bean

Thank YOU Bean - I'm glad to read your post and I appreciate your openness. I hope I get to know you, a fellow ex-drunk, better here!

Lise (Gabben)

Gabben

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Re: Question about alcoholism
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2007, 05:18:48 PM »
When you go to AA, you can fill yourself with community. There is a hole where the time used to be filled with drinking. There is also a large, unexplored part of you that needs attention if you wish to live well. Even those who start to make the journey find they have cross addictions - gambling, spending money, or, in your dad's case, reading. Alcoholism is a symptom of a bigger disease. We use it to hide. So those other addictions are also a way of hiding.

Hi Beth -

I knew that there was something about you that I liked!

Basically the fellowship is better than drinking but then, just like in any situation of life, our defects of character or shortcomings, if you will, peep their way back into our world. The honeymoon faze of the fellowship of AA wears off and people often get resentments, usually they don't even know about their resentments. All they know is that they "don't like those AA meetings." Suddenly people who have left AA classify meetings as "those people" or black and white as "they" as if "they" and "those people" are all the same.

What I am trying to say is that it can take a while to find a good group or meeting. It took me 10 years. The real program is not about meetings anyway it is about me and my reaction to meetings. The real program is about the steps (which were around a long time before meetings were). The real program is about getting free. Just like you said Beth.

However, in the big book it talks about fellowship as being a part of the program. It is important but how well you get along with people and flow...like water through a crowd will tell volumes about your spiritual growth. To be able to go anywhere and see the good and bad in people but focus on the good; to not react to the bad is what can separate the alcoholic from dry drunk to spiritually fit.

I have a "home group" it is right across the street from the jail. We get ex-cons and ex-drug addicts. Some of these people have amazing stories of transformation from sleeping and eating out of trash cans to getting sparkly, clean, work and have family and leading simple humble lives. They would give up anything to help another.  They practice walking the straight and narrow path better than most people in my church - AND they are ex-cons... I love them.

Lise

« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 05:22:30 PM by Gabben »