Newbie

[Anonymous]

You are right Bunny.  I have responded to the negativity here by trying to explain myself: by trying to defend myself for coming here in the first place, and for starting to talk about what has happened in my family.


I am sorry.  I should have noted more positives and responded to you too.

Michelle, I had absolutely no desire to cause this to happen for you and I Ideeply regret that it has.

I'm outta here.  Unless ofcourse, the next person who has an opinion that differs from the majority here dares to post and is silenced with disrespectful attacks too.

Then I will appologize to that person too, if I am not banned first.

[Anonymous]

This should stop now. Enough.

[Nic]

Hi Somebody,
Your posting here must not be viewed by you as a waste of time,yours or anybody elses'.   No amount of kindness or good will toward you can divert from or better yet avoid the "real" issue at hand here.  You posted and asked for feedback..a feedback you were probably not expecting..that happens sometimes and we have all at one time or another taken a swim in the river of denial.  In all twelve step programs, denial is the first step.  You cannot go further down the twelve step road without facing the demon denial.
Since my time here on the board, I have learned much and still have much to explore.  There are some very savvy members who take alot of time to think before they answer, people who've possibly been down harder and more challenging roads than yourself.  I have learned to respect them and their contributions because they are solidly based on knowledge and personal experience which they have never minimized.

It always hurts the ego to recognize that we are wrong about something.
Respectfully, I believe you should shift your focus from your presumed N sister and what she is doing to you to the real issue.  You handled the situation poorly, perhaps because it is/was too difficult for you to grasp/accept/face the magnitude and implication of your behaviour and your role within this scenario.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink..that applies to the posters who spared you no grief, ( remember you asked for feedback) and conversely to you because you led them one way and they picked up on being led.
Try very hard to move beyond your ego bruise.  I know it's difficult, real shame hurts but you have to move beyond it.
Cruel to be kind..often effective in extreme cases, I believe this is one of them.
One of the hardest things for me to get beyond was accepting other peoples' anger, accepting other people as they were  AND their criticism of me.  I find myself wanting to say, you must move away from the pride of your shame! Heavy huh?! Think about that..when it was told to me I almost threw up I was so insulted...with time i'm trying to grasp that little sentence 'til I get it right.
Other peoples' revulsion at your situation can be used as an indicator that something is absolutely not right in what you are saying.  Use it as a springboard and propel yourself toward the truth.
Perhaps one day this "shakeup" you've undergone..at your request..'cmon now!..will have been your major turning point.
Should you come, should you go...dun matter ta me none..'cos I don't believe anything happens for nothing.
Make the best of it and good luck,
Nic.

[Q's juke joint]

Very elegantly put, Nic.

Long time lurker or anyone else who is still here:

Legitimate psychology is one thing. Psychobabble (has a whiff of legitimacy) is quite another. The latter is often used to distort, discredit and manipulate. It is in short a propaganda device. And it's evident that this vile article who calles herself "somebody" has a well oiled propaganda machine.

The discussion did get a bit lively. But since we already know that "somebody" can't determine the difference between hate and legitimate anger and outrage, why should anyone get their feelings hurt by her projecting her hate on us.

People, she sleeps with a known, registered sex offender. She has NO credibility. If she had left him and was still interested in seeing what makes these people tick, she wouldn't be the target of anger and derision (which she has earned btw). Please don't be cowed by this imposter. She deserves nothing less than disdain.

My gosh, she can even be polite and conciliatory when the occasion calls for it. IMO this vile article is very narcissistically defended and deserves everything she is getting.

I am sorry that LTL got fooled by this person, but it happens. It doesn't make anyone here an abuser for goodness sake, that is absurd. The absurity would be to legitimize this vileness. I'm glad nobody except LTL got sucked in. It shows me there is a good deal of character on this board.
I am proud of the way people here were willing to take the time, thought and effort to dismantle the spurious pish posh that the propaganda machine was pushing. You are mighty insightful and wonderful posters.

Q

[Snar]

Psychology is a sport.


Snar

[snook]

Whatever that means.

[Anonymous]

Warning, You Are Entering Rosemary's Toxic Waste Site.

Enter At Own Risk!

Check your protective suit thoroughtly, and suit up before entry.

Ensure you have access to a Decontamination Chamber after visiting!

A few preliminary thoughts before I'm outta this shit hole. hahahah

1. Why am I waiting for Rosemary to start posting in blue and large. hahahahaahah

2. Why am I waiting for Rosemary to tell us she just had phone call/ visit from her kids and they've forgiven her, and now realise she did the right thing? That they now realise she's wonderful and they were all wrong.
hahahahahahaahahahahahah

3. Why am I waiting for Rosemary, who I diagnose as being JPN, to tell us that she typed out this thread, and all our responses and took it to her therapist, and her therapist diagnosed us all as having major psychological problems.
hahahahaahahahahahahah

4. Why does it remind me so much of some other shit that has been posted here before by a similar JPN person? hahahahahahahahahahaha

5. Why did I predict a visit from LTL? hahahahahha

5a. Why does it feel like I'm seeing the 3 faces of Eve? hahahahahahahaah

6. Why do I suspect LTL and Rosemary might share the same ISP?
hahahahahhahha.

7. Why am I expecting a couple of other of Rosemary's personalities to come along and offer her support? That's a really good reason enough to never return here.

8. Why do I get the feeling that Rosemary is settling in for the long haul, and just loving all the attention? hahahaahahahahahaha

9. Why didn't I recognise the crazy-making pattern sooner?

Because of these questions, and more that I have, I won't be coming back here folks. I think it'll make me sick if I do. Only can handle so much shit. Gotta go now and decontaminate myself, and burn the protective suit that I put on before I came in here.

Reading Rosemary here made me feel like I was swallowed by and found myself in the slimy smelly intestinal tract of huge MIB type alien cockroach.

Thankfully I have a life-rope that I am able to use, and am pulling myself out now.

Leaving Rosemary's Toxic Waste Site Now.

[Snar(l)]

Went away, came back because I forgot to say:

I am somebody.
No, wait a minute, you said I'm nobody.

No, that's wrong.  I could be anybody.  I could be your next door neighbour.  I could be your friend.  (I'm not that other person you're thinking was here before because I have never been to this board before-sorry to disappoint you there- I'm a whole other person with a real voice and I really am leaving this place now).

No, no, no.   You said I'm rosemary (you know, I was just starting to get used to that FO Rosemary name).  I realize you spelled my name with a capital letter but I figger you have erred there and are thinking I don't even deserve that, so I've put it down --the way it belongs.

Naw, that's not right either, Snar?  I've forgotton the "l".  I've left out part of my name!   Holey Moley call the name-police!  Call Big Brother!  Tell him to get here quick and fix this up-by ---stifling it.  (Stifle Eidith- oh how I wish I could spell).  

Quiet!  

Silence!!  

No talking!!  

Quit it!!




The "l" would make my new name "Snarl".  OOoo doesn't that sound more like me?   A vile vexacious (sp???-I wish) snarling vixin. I know what the "l" stands for and it is part of my new name.

Let me speak too please.
Let's be reasonable.
Let's try to be considerate of eachother (and go ahead, express our anger, but in ways that will not hurt anyone else, if at all possible).
Let's look at the whole picture.
Let's not jump to conclusions without getting all of the facts.
Let's ask questions rather than assume.
Let's be fair and kind and gentle and patient.
Let's just take it easy and not panic.
Let's all see if we can learn from eachother.
Let's not make this any worse for anyone.
Let's be respectful and preserve our and eachother's dignity.
Let's not dammmmmmm anyone because it is not our place to do so.

Jeepers.  I could go on and on and on but I better not.  I'm tired.

I'm not entitled to speak.
I didn't ask for anyone's opinion, I was trying to put it down in some kind of order and release some of my pain but I do not have that right!

I am sooo dumb.
I should never have expected to be treated with politeness.

I am not in denial but I don't have a right to say that.
Unless I choose the path that is regular, I must except that "high road", that I am in denial.

How dare I have any kind of voice.

Now I get it.

I should have been lynched by now.
Am IIIIIIIII lucky!!!

Lucky-oh so lucky!!   Reminds me of a song- "I'm pretty, oh so pretty..."

I am sorry to disappoint.
It's too late to be polite now but thanks o'Nic old buddy old pal.

I have used my voice and I can only hope with all of my heart and soul, that there are others, beside you Ltl, who appreciate my doing that and who respect my right to do so without being stomped on and beaten to a pulp emotionally or any other way, for that matter.

You can make judgements all you like.  Just don't force them down anybody else's throat.

I hope you all have a fabulous day and I truly hope you will continue in your struggle to heal.

That issss all any of us are, after all, trying to do.

[snook]

Yeah, whatever.

[Lizbeth]

This place has gotten really weird since I've been away.

Don't want to upset anyone by resurrecting this thread, but I believe this woman is in deep denial about how wrong she is to stay with this man.  I would also like to point out the obvious(unless I missed it somewhere on this thread?)  to others and to her:  many child predators choose single mothers who have children of their particular age and sexual preferences to prey on.  So while this woman thinks she has had this wonderful relationship with this man, she may very well not be facing the fact that the entire relationship has been a farce and facade to cover up his true intentions, easy access to her children.  For some reason, he was not able to succeed (the strength of the child, it appears).  That this child was not able to go to her mother is very sad.  That this man did not tell his wife at the time he made his "one time attempt" is also very telling that it went further than that.  If he was horrified with himself, he would have come clean and asked for help.  

Mother, you should be looking at yourself.  Why do you want to stay with a man who would target a child for sexual purposes, who very well may have chosen YOU as a mate for that very purpose?  How can you ever trust this man again or believe that he has normal feelings as a man for you?  

I'm not even going to go into the rest of the points that were made against this woman staying with this monster, because I have my own very strong feelings about mothers and fathers staying with parents that are bad for their children, for their own selfish reasons, ruining our lives in the process.  

Lizbeth

[Guest..Patsy]

Dear Somebody,

I hear you.

The deep dilemmas you speak of are familiar to me..across a few generations. I think you have to have been there to understand. But not only been there..also to know God, Jesus and how much we have all been forgiven and recieved by him and also how much he asks us to do the same thing.

I also can hear the others who have replied to you here. The pain, confusion, distrust, desire for protection, validation and support when you have been threatened in this way by an adult who is supposed to love and protect you, in all ways, is a debilitating, on-going, life-changing battle which surfaces to surprise us when we least suspect it. Not every-one "deals" with it and/or recovers to go on to have normal healthy loving relationships.
The question needs to be asked...How can your child really know that they are "unaffected"?..Is there any proof? ..Have they gone on to experience healthy adult relationships?

This is my opinion.
Yes..your sisters behaviour suggests motives which meant to cause harm.
Hard to accept  and deal with from one so close.
No..your husband is not a monster. He has provided the ideal platform for all those involved to experience healing and reconcilliation. It is possible when all the hearts involved truly want healing. Has he been prepared to back right off so that your relationships with your children can be mended and healed?

But...the PRIMARY victims in this situation is your child/children.
He/she has lost the most. Years of happy carefree childhood. He/she has lived with years of fear, wondering if or when it was going to happen again or worse and not being able to tell mummy.  Knowing that the man who sat accross the table was hiding an awful secret and he/she had to keep it too so that the family stayed together and so that mummy was happy too. ("Mummy really loved this man and he/she wanted mummy to be happy). This child has protected you, protected him/herself and tryed to protect his/her sibling.
This IS a tremdous burden for any child to carry.
This child was unable to leave, unable to tell, unable to relax, unable to get support and understanding from his/her mother, unable to trust those who provided his/her most basic care. This has a serious effect on a child.

Your support of your Husband is commendable. But your child needed you more. As long as it took. As far reaching as it took. As much as it cost you to provide it..TILL or IF..they were prepared to be reconciled with your Husband. THEIR needs were paramount. THEY were the VICTIM. YOU are HIS/HER MOTHER. HE/she has no-one closer then you. THEY needed your support and love far more then your Husband did. He had the advantage of being an adult. Your childs emotional development may be stunted at the level of the abuse.  
In my mind it is a question of priorities and who needs you the most. You are or were in a pivitol position to support and bring reconciliation to the family ( with the aid of others) but by nurturing the abused..NOT the abuser. Forgive him yes..but he must stay in the cold till other healing has happened..and this takes a lot longer then a year. Especially if it is a secret held by a child for years.
I say these things with full knowledge of the circumstances ( I have been the child and the mother in these circumstabnces) and having made the same (albeit temporary ) mistake you have done. Forgive yes...but nurture and support the victim untill HE/SHE is able to move forward.

Hugs for you Somebody...I know this nightmare.
It is not a situation where everyone is able to be nurtured. Children need to come first. I'm sorry if this causes further hurt..I hope it may provide a pathway out of the pain. God bless you and your family.

[longtimelurker]

thank you somebody.

and thanks "fuck off rosemary"

Its a difficult thread and obviously brings up many conflicting emotions.

It's also very difficult to express an opinion on such a difficult subject.

speaking for myself I don't think it's necessarily a just because those here now have a 'voice' they now have an excuse to say whatever they want in the way they want to anyone.
Perhaps the things I was trying to say weren’t expressed very clearly - and certainly I could clarify them – but equally perhaps what I was trying to say wasn’t given a fair hearing, by some.

Not that I have to stand up for rosemary, but as an example, when you are trying to express something and you are told you are in denial, you are essentially rendered ‘voiceless’.
Ie your views are not being listened to and you receive a load of verbal abuse for the process of doing it.
I personally don’t think its ok to pull posts and make personal insults the way some posters do, I think it devalues the board as a whole.
Example my previous post was pulled apart. It could have generated discussion and learning on a very difficult subject but that opportunity was missed.
I’ve also been defined as being fooled, I don’t think I have. I have my own opinion, and although it appears to be similar to somebodys in some respects, it does not mean I would support what she has decided to do. My opinion is that condemning someone flat out,(That’s it you are condemned. Nothing you do can change it now. ) Is an approach that gets nobody anywhere. How does one learn from it? just because I say do not condemn does not mean that I think it's ok either !

(now lets hope the poster nobody(if there is one) doesn’t get offended by this))

[Anonymous]

This place has gotten really weird since I've been away.

Don't want to upset anyone by resurrecting this thread, but I believe this woman is in deep denial about how wrong she is to stay with this man.  I would also like to point out the obvious(unless I missed it somewhere on this thread?)  to others and to her:  many child predators choose single mothers who have children of their particular age and sexual preferences to prey on.  So while this woman thinks she has had this wonderful relationship with this man, she may very well not be facing the fact that the entire relationship has been a farce and facade to cover up his true intentions, easy access to her children.  For some reason, he was not able to succeed (the strength of the child, it appears).  That this child was not able to go to her mother is very sad.  That this man did not tell his wife at the time he made his "one time attempt" is also very telling that it went further than that.  If he was horrified with himself, he would have come clean and asked for help.  

Mother, you should be looking at yourself.  Why do you want to stay with a man who would target a child for sexual purposes, who very well may have chosen YOU as a mate for that very purpose?  How can you ever trust this man again or believe that he has normal feelings as a man for you?  

I'm not even going to go into the rest of the points that were made against this woman staying with this monster, because I have my own very strong feelings about mothers and fathers staying with parents that are bad for their children, for their own selfish reasons, ruining our lives in the process.  

Lizbeth

[Portia]

Jeeez LTL!

but equally perhaps what I was trying to say wasn’t given a fair hearing, by some.

What? Did you have your fingers chopped off then? Were you incapable of responding again? Come on, you have a strong voice, you can use it, you’re doing it now. You’re attacking someone else, passive-aggressive style. Why?

when you are trying to express something and you are told you are in denial, you are essentially rendered ‘voiceless’.

Come on! The poster was certainly not voiceless. Anything but! Read her posts!

My opinion is that condemning someone flat out,(That’s it you are condemned. Nothing you do can change it now. ) Is an approach that gets nobody anywhere. How does one learn from it?

I’m not going to read all this thread again (my stomach can’t take it, I am not that healed okay? my problem) but: I don’t think we condemned flat out. I think we said –

This is not the place for you. Go somewhere else. I said: here’s just one place to go.

We do not want you here.

We do not believe you have an N problem as your first and most important problem.

I even said come back when you can empathise! I meant that.
LTL, I think people here have learned from this. I have.

But it appears that the original poster is in deep denial – will she learn? It is our responsibility to help her? No.

We can only help ourselves. Yes?

[longtimelurker]

Hi Portia,
Quote:
when you are trying to express something and you are told you are in denial, you are essentially rendered ‘voiceless’.
Come on! The poster was certainly not voiceless. Anything but! Read her posts!


The point I was trying to make was that having a 'voice' is not just speaking, it is also about being heard. When you are being persistently defined as something (as you did when you said that I am attacking someone else,in a passive-aggressive way,when actually I was defending what I was trying to say)

I would be interested in how you would define the content of your reply to me :-

Quote:
but equally perhaps what I was trying to say wasn’t given a fair hearing, by some.

What? Did you have your fingers chopped off then? Were you incapable of responding again? Come on, you have a strong voice, you can use it, you’re doing it now. You’re attacking someone else, passive-aggressive style. Why?

Why would I take the time and trouble to respond more clearly when that is the response I get. Why express my voice when I am insulted for it?
Certainly I have been given no empathy. and empathy is not something that I expect, but I do value it highly, as you seem too. The point I am making is I was attacked passive-agressively first and am defending myself.

Aren't some of the responses I received part of the reasons why people become voiceless in the first place?

 is there really any need to respond in that way?

Personally I don't think there is.

It's also very easy to cut and paste but the following paragraph in my response was the explanation to "why I wasn't given a fair hearing by some"

Given the way you have chosen to respond to me, I see little reason why I should go to this length to explain myself to you and I doubt I will do so again.

As another example :-

Perhaps if you say "I can respond how I want" "I can express myself how I want" you will certainly not be voiceless but perhaps inconsiderate and certainly not displaying empathy. But I wont be in position where I am being heard and surely that is the centre of all good relationships and conversation. Essentially in that exchange I am rendered 'voiceless'
That's the point I was trying to make. A point about me and the way people responded to my posts and how it feels.

Which is also a general point about the process of being voiceless.