I can't stop...need significant help

[bearwithme]

Hello fellow victims of N's.

I need some real good input here because I feel I'm out of control with my anger and hurt over an incident that I just can not put out of my head.  I think about it almost everyday and I am disturbed by that fact.  I want it out of my head once and for all.

Here goes:

I have a sister in law (I'll abbreviate this as SIL) who is on my husband's side, she is married to his brother.  Husband and brother are the best of friends and really great people.  My SIL has a track record with me as being less than nice to me on almost every occasion.  She has been rude to me, embarrassed me and told me off more times than I can count.  She even told me  face to face when she found out that me and my husband were engaged to be married and I was about to become part of the family, "that's okay Bear, I accept you for who you are....you're marrying Steve so I accept that..."  My SIL has rolled her eyes at me and she often ignores me when I talk.  When we are family functions with our husband's family, she doesn't really acknowledge me all that much and never tries to seek a friendship with me given our husbands are such good friends, besides being brothers.  Okay, I know, that's fine, she doesn't HAVE to be my friend just because of that.   My SIL and I are very close in age and I actually tried really hard to be her friend.  Problem here is that she is hot & cold to me.  Just when I think, "okay, she likes me now and wants to be my friend, yay!" And then I get all excited.  Then POW!! She will do something snide or say something really condescending but everyone thinks she is soooo funny and brilliant.  People always talk so highly of her that she is tough and knows her stuff, doesn't take crap from anyone... okay,  blah, blah, blah.

Since I took the "gentle" road as a result of being raised by a raging Nm other and not the "bully/fierce/assertive/narcissists" path, I tend to be passive and not stick up for myself.  I've struggled with the whole gamut of self-esteem issues that all of you here can relate to.  This is a huge problem as I can not let go of my anger and hurt towards something she did.

The day after I gave birth to my daughter, two years ago, she brought our mother-in-law to the hospital to see our baby.  Great!  My SIL stood around taking pictures and asking questions, etc.  My mom and dad were there and also my cousin.  I was to be discharged from the hospital in 12 hours and everyone in my husband's family couldn't wait to see the baby pictures since they all live back east and we live on the west coast.  My husband and I bought a special video camera and regular camera and he took some amazing pictures of the baby with everyone.  We prepared for this event for 9 months making sure we had the proper camera and "techno" items so that we could immediately send his family back east the first photos of our baby girl.

My husband's phone rang 20 minutes before I was discharged.  It was his mother telling him that our SIL sent all the photos herself to everyone in the family.  All the ones that she took that day at the hospital and even ones of the first photos of my mother holding her granddaughter and one of my husband holding her baby toes.  I was devastated.  This was my moment.  This was my baby, not hers.  I don't even know my SIL!!  She's not even my friend, right???  I prepared my whole life for the moment to announce my first child to the family and that was taken from me.  What is even worse, was that when I got home and logged onto my email, my SIL not only sent photos, but she sent a full-fledged birth announcement with all of my daughter's stats: weight, height, time of birth, full name and hair color.  The birth announcement was flanked with bunnies, rabbits and decorations of all sorts stating to welcome our baby into the world.  It was supposed to come from me.

I can't get past this.  BTW,  my SIL did call my husband while I was still in the hospital and I heard the entire conversation.  She just informed him of what she did and said she "forgot to ask permission to send the pictures."  She did this because my mother-in-law actually stepped in and said something to her (I think).  My SIL only said she forgot to ask permission she never said sorry.   She also never mentioned that she sent a fully loaded birth announcement of our baby.  I was standing right there and she never asked to speak with me.  I was the mother of this child and I had just given birth to her.  DID I COUNT??? No.  Of course my husband was all nice and said it was "no problem...thank you for doing that."  He didn't know what to say and was a bit upset himself.  I believe SIL only wanted to talk to him because she knew he would be "cool" about it...a guy thing.  I crumbled.  I collapsed in disappointment and sadness.  Here I was in the hospital after the hardest labor and birth and celebrating my one and only child and my SIL had to darken my light somehow as she always has.

I can't get past my anger about this.  She never apologized to me.  I also really regret not taking the phone out of my husband's hand and telling her how I felt. I just sat there.  Why?? Why did I do that?  Why didn't I just say let me talk to her, it's my baby too?   Why didn't I just call her and cry to show my real feelings?  Also,  I totally and painfully suppressed my hurt to my mother-in-law who stayed with us for 3 weeks after our baby was born.  I never showed how hurt and angry I was so that I wouldn't cause any rift in the family.  I hate myself for that!  I kick myself everyday for not showing how I felt and telling our SIL and our mother-in-law that it was just wrong of SIL to do that...that I deserved an apology.  Something was taken away me that was important to me and they all just shrugged it off as "oh, thats' okay...that's just the way SIL is...she's a real go-getter, that gal, and such a techno person, she really knows about computers!"  Just because someone has a reputation as a techno-computer-picture person, doesn't mean they have to tak over someone else's moment. 

I know what they are all thinking.  My husband's family.  They think, oh, SIL thought she was doing them a favor and sending the photos and announcement since she's so "smart" and techno savy.  I'm sorry, my husand and I aren't that stupid!  We prepared ourselves for 9 frickin' months for that moment.  Did SIL think we were that stupid as to not be able to email a simple photo of our newborn daughter????  I'm doubly angered by the insult if that's the case!!

I need help with my anger.  Everytime someone in the family mentions SIL, I go back to my pain and get furious.  It's still there.  I feel raped by her.  SIL continues to be rude to me as well.  She even called my little girl "fat" in so many words.  Uh, hello, a 7 month old baby is supposed to have rolls and chubby cheeks. 

I want my thoughts about this to come to an end.  It's been two years and there is no way in hell I'm confronting her now!!

So sorry for the long rant.  I needed to go somewhere with it.

Thanks for anything you say or even just for listening to my pitty-party.  I'm stewing in my own boiling anger and hurt.

Bear

[Sealynx]

Hi Bear,
I can't say that what happened to me is anything like the let down she inflicted on you, but I did endure a "photo incident" and I think the motivation and MO of the people are the same.

I was interested in someone and so was my neighbor. I ended up with front row seats at a concert for this person's favorite band and took some awesome pictures which I posted on Facebook. I was hoping the person would drop in on my page and make a comment. As it turned out they didn't have to. SHE went onto my Facebook page, copied all the photos and sent them to HIM.

Your SIL and my neighbor are both attention hogs. They can never get enough and resent being around anyone who puts a dent in their kingdom of admiration. I removed my neighbor from my friend list on Facebook. Unfortunately you can't remove your SIL from the family.

I don't have any problem being assertive with people when I know ahead of time that they are trouble, so my way of dealing may not help you, however I use a ballet rather than a war. When they start to take the conversation in a direction I don't like or issue a slight, I steer it to something innocuous, like the weather or a great deal I got on a new dress. It is a form of ignoring them completely without picking a fight. If you are like me, you don't really want a fight, you want peace. Keep turning the topic to peace.

I'm sorry about the pictures, unfortunately that can't be undone. I would create a birthday pictorial or first steps pictorial and steal back some of the fire. I also wouldn't let her around for birthdays or other photo ops.

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi Bear,

This was just a terrible intrusion into your life with your husband and baby.

You might not agree with me, but I suggest that you suggest to her that you have a talk.

...you need to confront her, but calmly
...telling that this episode angered you, that you ought to have said something before but didn't know (yada yada) and you haven't been able to set it aside/let it go, as something minor
...this is major and you want an apology
...as well you would like her (or you?) to rectify with all to whom she wrote, that she had done this without your permission and denied you the pleasure.... and this is her apology to you and to them....these two years later. Maybe send a 2 year photo of your daughter now to them? YES! before she does.

Does she have children?
Sounds like some jealousy there.
Is she trying to make you look/feel incompetent?  lacking in etiquette? whatever?
Plan your tone and your wording with as much kindness as possible but prepare for if SHE becomes angry, and most new mothers do there own announcing but it doesn't have to be before the afterbirth has been expelled.

Baby announcements and Wedding gift thank-yous are allowed to take time!

I confronted a sister of mine, via email, as we are 2000 miles apart. She wrote me the most hateful email back , mentioning any and everything except the reason I wrote.

I responded with just "Well you sure have had a hate on for me these many years." and that ended us!

Can you afford that outcome? or whatever the fallout is?

Since you cannot let it go, it will fester inside of you day after day, week after week, year after year, until one day you two will be going at it with knives!!!

Remember, being assertive is not being Narcissistic. Assertiveness is sticking to your boundaries and she crossed the line into your space. This might have been on purpose or might have come naturally (without one iota of a thought about betrayal) if she is always wanting the control!

I hope more people will comment

and Good Luck!

Izzy

[bearwithme]

Hi Bear,

Your SIL and my neighbor are both attention hogs. They can never get enough and resent being around anyone who puts a dent in their kingdom of admiration. I removed my neighbor from my friend list on Facebook. Unfortunately you can't remove your SIL from the family.

I think there is some truth to the attention hog thing.  This was just the wrong avenue to do it.  I wish I could remove SIL like you removed your neighbor!  My SIL fascinates me to some degree because I really trully don't think she's a nice person through and through but people gather around her and just love everything about her.  She has a million friends that give her the world.  Everyone talks so highly of her and says she's great this and that.  I'm baffled.

[bearwithme]

Hi Bear,

...you need to confront her, but calmly
...telling that this episode angered you, that you ought to have said something before but didn't know (yada yada) and you haven't been able to set it aside/let it go, as something minor
...this is major and you want an apology
...as well you would like her (or you?) to rectify with all to whom she wrote, that she had done this without your permission and denied you the pleasure.... and this is her apology to you and to them....these two years later. Maybe send a 2 year photo of your daughter now to them? YES! before she does.


Baby announcements and Wedding gift thank-yous are allowed to take time!

Can you afford that outcome? or whatever the fallout is?

Since you cannot let it go, it will fester inside of you day after day, week after week, year after year, until one day you two will be going at it with knives!!!

Remember, being assertive is not being Narcissistic. Assertiveness is sticking to your boundaries and she crossed the line into your space. This might have been on purpose or might have come naturally (without one iota of a thought about betrayal) if she is always wanting the control!

I hope more people will comment

and Good Luck!

Izzy

Oh this is so right and I don't know if I will do it. Or even if I can.  I know I should confront her but it's been soooo long and I know that she'll tell everyone in the family what I did and make it look like I "couldn't get over it" that I "can't move on from something that took place so long ago" etc.  I'm sure I will hear about it from my husband's family because they are "talkers" mostly in a good sense but often times they regurgitate negative things about someone. 

Izzy: you got me thinking and thank you for that!!  I'm almost ready to fire off an email to SIL to get it out of my system.....nicely that is.

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi Bear

Only do it if it feels right, but that is the first that came to mind, but from my life.

Now as far as an attention-hog----maybe she does this because you don't give her the attention she craves that others give her... but that doesn't mean you have to kow-tow to her!

Just watch your boundaries and be calmly assertive.

Good Luck
Izzy

[Ami]

Dear Bear
  I think it has several parts. One could be female jealousy? Do you have particular qualities that threaten her? I am not suggesting that you are doing anything to elicit her  feelings.
 Think about this cuz it may not be that apparent.
 Also,  your NM can set you up for bullying.
  I am the gentle type, too. We can bring out the worst in the aggressive type . It happens and it took me ages to figure it out.
  I think you are right in your assessment of SIL. She is not the wonderful person that people think.
  She has probably had N abuse and is looking for s/one to bully. If she didn't have N abuse, she is still a bully.
  Only one thing works, IME, strength. Walk softly and carry a big stick.
  It is bad that it has to be this way but it is a Law of the Jungle that if you don't comply, you will be eaten.
  I think her picture thing was a direct affront and call to "war" by her. If she gets away with things, she will get worse and worse.
   Sorry you are going through this, (((Bear))))      xxoo  Ami

PS I am just learning that anger is not BAD. All our emotions are there for a purpose. If our adult side can figure out what to do, we can navigate life using our emotions to help us.

[Hopalong]

Hi Bear,
I've got a 2-part answer, for what it's worth, and I hope some bit of it might help.
Part One:
It sounds as though you have a crush on a bully. Sound odd? In my past I have felt things like that--someone (this was past but I can write better about it if I use present tense) is capricious and hurtful and disrespectful with me and because I was trained to turn the other cheek I overdo it and find I am fascinated, oddly drawn TO rather than repulsed away from, and I'm just as magnetically drawn to their positive traits (the sparkle and charm that draws others, too).

It's almost hypnotic. This person seems to have everything I lack. I can't stop thinking about them. Most especially, this person's lack of empathy means they lack the eternal trigger pain I am lugging around like a sack of rocks. They are careless, reckless, unkind, selfish and greedy...and seem happy and carefree!

Whereas I am kind, patient, empathetic, determined to see what's good and interesting about everyone other than me (including them), respectful and pleasant to others...and I'm NOT happy. Not happy at all.

I have a radiant 18-month-old human here in my arms. And I'm so upset about the photographs/announcement ritual being stolen from me at her birth that I can't really enjoy her in a peaceful way today. I'm holding her, but my heart is elsewhere. I'm with my SIL. I'm really mentally sitting in her living room, wanting to wipe that arrogant smile off my bullying Nsil's face because HOW DARE SHE. And why, why, why wasn't I ready with the potent, powerful, perfect putdown when it all happened.

And why, why, wasn't I tough enough and assertive enough to just tell her off at the time...and around and around and around my mind goes, always circling back to her, and my baby stirs in my arms and I don't really have time to focus on her, I'm ruminating over her birth, my birth moment which was stolen from me, and I look back at my baby being born and the following days, with all the SIL's Nistic appropriations of MY turf, MY moment in the sun, MY right to run certain rituals, and those scenes glow like a movie screen, they are the biggest thing that was happening, and the baby's chatting and moving and I wish she would just go to sleep now, I've got some serious thinking to do about my SIL...

Part 2: (Ignore if it's stupid or off the mark, I often write fantasy monologues/dialogues but never expect they'd ACTUALLY fit. Still, hope it gives you some strength...)

"Dear SIL:
This letter is 18 months late, but I need to write it. I am going to be pretty direct.

I admire you for so many traits: your sparkle, your social charm, your beauty, your X, your Y, etc. Among your talents is your gift for designing attractive announcements and being quick and clever with computer applications. Bravo.

But I have to tell you that I was so hurt and angered by your taking over my role as the happy parent--taking my husband's photographs of the birth without even asking, creating and sending out a birth announcement that was OUR right to do--and generally appropriating and taking over the whole experience.

I felt invaded and invalidated to a degree I can hardly describe. But it was one of the most upsetting things I've ever experienced, and I never want to go through anything like it again. One of the most important days in my life, and you made me feel like a bystander.

Likewise, although we may never choose to be friends, I want to have cordial and peaceful relations with X's wife. You are part of my family. As families often are, we may not have chosen each other as best friends. But whether we are close or not, I want to make clear that I want to be treated with respect.

If you are going to ignore me when I am present, roll your eyes when I speak, and generally treat me dismissively and disrespectfully, then I do not want to spend time with you.

I would rather we could speak to each other with respect and courtesy, and that is how I intend to treat you. But if that can't be reciprocal from now on, I will have to withdraw.

My child is my child, her birth was MY experience, sharing photos and a birth announcement were OUR rituals and rights. And rather than stew about this a day longer, I wanted to tell you how I feel.

Bear"

[Sealynx]

Great words Hopalong. I have that same trouble with being nice to people who don't treat me well. Stopping that is a lifelong project.

Bear,
I  know it hurts to see horrible people held over our heads as saints. I've thought about this a great deal and spent time observing these "lovable demons".

Here is what I've learned.

People will generally give lip service to a "good" person, but they won't necessarily seek them out to have a good time. Someone who can dominate a group and create a fun sense of competition among extroverts is often the most valued.

N types dominate situations while projecting excitement.

People react to a dominant individual entering a room by seeking their approval. Since this person will likely control conversation, being blessed with their attention is important. 

This quickly develops into a habitual pattern of behavior if the same people meet up repeatedly.  If you think about it, people with N traits set themselves up like moderators and if you want your chance to speak, you need to address the person in charge!!

I once heard someone who I believe was working with her own N traits describe the feeling of dominating a group of people in this way, "it is like when I'm about to feed my cats and I wave the bowl over their heads, watching as they run in circles around my feet, totally controlled by what I'm about to give them." The people who flock to this woman are like the pets.  Competition for the "promise of food" (attention) keeps them focused not on the person, but on what is being offered, a chance to stand out from the group and be recognized. Moral qualities have nothing to do with this kind of popularity.

Stopping this is almost impossible because the people who crave attention would be unhappy if the game ended. The larger than life quality of N traits people disrupts the "ordinariness" of daily life. Their followers are also interacting with the normal people around them, so they aren't as aware of the lack of feelings being projected by the N.  N traits create an "event" of sorts and selective perception takes over, associating the whole experience with fun rather than decoding the "evil intent" behind the person creating it.


As we know too well, N behaviors are not fun in the long term sense. Most of the people who flock to these individuals are seeking "peak experiences" and not daily contact.  People who are naturally more introverted will not have a good time around these folks.  They create and reinforce an environment of constant competitiveness which is anathema to introversion or introspection.


Like the person who described holding the bowl over the pets heads, most of these N people know better than to let someone in "too" close. They will lower the "bowl" within sniffing distance, but never fully set it down. If the game was ever allowed to end, the "pets" would see what you see...that there is really nothing there worth having in the bowl....it only smells like food!

[lighter]

I'm so sorry you're hurt by your SIL's actions.

Me?  I probably would have been happy to have all the photos taken and sent out..... happy not to have to deal with the birth announcements, but that's just breastfeeding on a schedule, too focused on the baby to be bothered with those things, 

ME.

That she's hurtful to you is a problem.

I always found that ignoring these people, and not attempting to be nice in the face of their meaness, made them nicer.

One thing that's certain, she's in your life.

If I were you, I'd hang around the nice people in the family and steer clear of the meanies.

I'd do my best to cut off situations where you might be sabotaged or injured.

Calmly stating how you feel, in front of the sane nice people involved, might give you some closure with the matter as well as stand as proactive explanation for what's surely to come,  when you begin protecting yourself in the future.

You can say "No thank you" to your SIL as easily as telling her off.

You can step around her and make arrangements for food with your MIL.

You can ignore her when she says mean things, or have rehearsed witty things to say that highlight her pettiness and showcase your taking it with humor and sympathy.

You want to be the one who enjoys family gatherings and brings people together. 

Focusing on the kids will make that easier...... having short quips ready in response to her pettiness might taker her by surprise and make it more difficult for her to being mean in public.

I always find asking bullies "what exactly did you mean by that?"  or "why would you say such a thing?"
with good humor and an expectation of an answer, can deter.

Congrats on the new baby...... that's what it's all about!

[HeartofPilgrimage]

Bearwithme,

Everybody has had such great input. I really liked Hopalong's "sample" e mail you could send. I think that you could explain the delay like this, "I was really exhausted and going through a lot of physical changes when this happened. I didn't say anything for awhile because I wanted to make sure I had perspective before I said anything. But, I felt really violated and even with perspective I think what you did was unacceptable."

I think practicing the Medium Chill with this person (we've talked about it a lot on the forum) would be your best bet for minimizing hurt. And it sounds like your husband understands how she has hurt you, so ask him if he can try to minimize the times when you are expected to do "couple" things with his brother and wife. Instead, encourage him to go do "guy" things alone with his brother since they are close.

I understand the "fascination" --- part of being narcissistic is having a kind of charm that sucks people in. Also, some female narcissists seem to have a sort of manic energy that enables them to get more done than the rest of us. Remember, in order for them to have so much energy, they have to SUCK THE ENERGY FROM OTHERS, leaving the people in relationship with them depressed. Remember the movie X-men where that mutant woman (can't remember the character's name, she was blue) could take on the appearance of anyone she wanted? That's a narcissist! Somebody somewhere called Ns "emotional vampires" --- they suck you dry, that's the only way they can have that fascinating energy. When you're around your SIL and feel that fascination, realize that the energy you sense in her is actually coming from you!! That energy is yours!! That's why the fascination.

[bearwithme]

Dear Bear
  I think it has several parts. One could be female jealousy? Do you have particular qualities that threaten her? I am not suggesting that you are doing anything to elicit her  feelings.
 Think about this cuz it may not be that apparent.
 Also,  your NM can set you up for bullying.
  I am the gentle type, too. We can bring out the worst in the aggressive type . It happens and it took me ages to figure it out.
  I think you are right in your assessment of SIL. She is not the wonderful person that people think.
  She has probably had N abuse and is looking for s/one to bully. If she didn't have N abuse, she is still a bully.
  Only one thing works, IME, strength. Walk softly and carry a big stick.
  It is bad that it has to be this way but it is a Law of the Jungle that if you don't comply, you will be eaten.
  I think her picture thing was a direct affront and call to "war" by her. If she gets away with things, she will get worse and worse.
   Sorry you are going through this, (((Bear))))      xxoo  Ami

PS I am just learning that anger is not BAD. All our emotions are there for a purpose. If our adult side can figure out what to do, we can navigate life using our emotions to help us.

I have heard other's call her a bully.  I may have qualities that threaten her and one of my best friends said that my SIL is threatened by me and is jealous that I knew her husband before she did.  Her husband (my husband's brother) and I have a history together, not a romantic one, but there were encounters that may have been close...we were so young and fancy free at the time but her husband is actually the way I met his brother (my husband now) and we fell head over heels in love.  I found out that my SIL had a plan to hook up my husband (before he was my husband) with her best friend.  My SIL told my point blank, "I've always thought me and my best friend, Laura, should marry brothers..that would be so neet."  I had nothing to say when she said that but I was hurt by it nonetheless.

Ami: thank you for your insight.  It may be true about the jealousy thing....I just can not comprehend why she'd be jealous of me.  She has so many friends and she now has three children, all under the age of 4.  She is well off and does what she wants in life.

[bearwithme]

Hops:

All is I can say is Wow!  I sent you a private message as to not be so long winded here.  What you said in Part 1 made me cry like a baby.  I'm so ashamed right now that this has infested my thoughts to the degree that it has.  There is more weight to this than you know.  My SIL also (almost) ruined part of our wedding by getting in a huge argument (a really big nasty event that needs a new topic) with some of our mutual friends the week before our wedding.  The mutual friends called us the week before explaining in detail why they were not going to attend our wedding.  They were so hurt by my SIL and her rage on them over something so small, that they were afraid to attend our wedding for fear that she would "go off" on them and possibly ruin our wedding.  My SIL had a big history of not liking this couple and it came to a head the weekend before our wedding.  The couple explained in detail their feelings about it and we begged them to come anyways.  We said that it would be okay and that they didn't have to sit together but they denied our request. 

My husband thought our mutual friend couple was in the wrong.  But you know, they explained their case and I couldn't take that away from them.  My SIL called them names and told them to Fu*$ off at a night out.  SIL went off because the couple asked about her getting pregnant.  My SIL was taking in-vitro hormones to get pregnant at the time and actually was pregnant so everyone just excused it as a hormonal thing.  The guy in the couple is actually best friends with SIL's husband.   I know this is confusing.  I can go on and on.

I needed this so bad, to come here to talk about my dirty little secret.  I'm embarrassed that it has been two years and I'm still reeling.  You know, if she was really nice to me on a regular basis, then I'd probably forgive her or would have approached her.  It's like I'm afraid of her.  I'm afraid of what she'll do to me if I write the letter.

Your words have made me realize so much.  Thank you ((((((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))))

[bearwithme]

You can say "No thank you" to your SIL as easily as telling her off.

You can step around her and make arrangements for food with your MIL.

You can ignore her when she says mean things, or have rehearsed witty things to say that highlight her pettiness and showcase your taking it with humor and sympathy.

You want to be the one who enjoys family gatherings and brings people together. 

Focusing on the kids will make that easier...... having short quips ready in response to her pettiness might taker her by surprise and make it more difficult for her to being mean in public.

I always find asking bullies "what exactly did you mean by that?"  or "why would you say such a thing?"
with good humor and an expectation of an answer, can deter.

Congrats on the new baby...... that's what it's all about!

I like the asking "what exactly did you mean by that?" approach.  It's great.  I think it would work for me but I need practice.  I've never tried it.  I also like the hanging around the nicer people more.  In the family setting it's hard but I have avoided her before but one time she found her way over to me when I was talking and she managed to do something shocking and make the focus on her at my expense...weird the way she does that, she's really good at it.


Thank you motherof2.  You know what this is all about!
Feel free to give me more!!!!!


Bear

[bearwithme]

Sealynx said:  People will generally give lip service to a "good" person, but they won't necessarily seek them out to have a good time. Someone who can dominate a group and create a fun sense of competition among extroverts is often the most valued.

N types dominate situations while projecting excitement.

People react to a dominant individual entering a room by seeking their approval. Since this person will likely control conversation, being blessed with their attention is important. 

This quickly develops into a habitual pattern of behavior if the same people meet up repeatedly.  If you think about it, people with N traits set themselves up like moderators and if you want your chance to speak, you need to address the person in charge!!


Really interesting! It's now so obvious that this is what she does.  I'm amazed that people know how she is, but then they come to all her parties and events with great cheer.  One thing is that she is married to a guy that is such a "guy's guy" that other people migrate to him and want to be around him as well in spite of his wife's disrespect towards others.

The dynamic seems so obvious as I look back at gatherings and such....hmmmm. Even family has fallen into this trap of hers.  Wow.

Thank you Sealynx.