Author Topic: Experiment - for what it's worth  (Read 6588 times)

sKePTiKal

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Experiment - for what it's worth
« on: December 29, 2011, 09:11:24 AM »
OK, so I have the coolest hair stylist. We're at opposite ends of the political spectrum and that's part of the connection & fun... he's a grandpa - part of my generational cohort... and we talk about just about everything under the sun. I suspect he's another self-motivated learner. I like him & his wife & crew a whole bunch. So yesterday, as us oldsters are wont, we started talking about neuroscience again... and he reminded me of a previous conversation we had about one of his new-age-y heroes. This guy, Neil Slade worked with some brain scientist, musician nut from our generation by the name of "Lingo".

They're pushing this practical "experiment" that people can try at home on themselves. It's called "Tickling the Amygdala"... Long story short: one is supposed to be able to retrain the brain to "feel better" with this technique... to be more creative, cooperative, even less negative; less anxious... simply by practicing this easy visualization that effectively re-orients one's neural pathways from always seeking the negative first. This overlaps with the subject of some of the books I've read, and seems to be based on the concept of neural plasticity. So there might actually be something to it - but I'm still skeptical.

My guess is that this will work better for folks that also have a high level of suggestibility, or who think in associations more often than linear, causal logic patterns. Maybe that's a description of creative types... but it's not the complete description. Anyway - here's the link to the full explanation and description for anyone who's curious or doesn't have something better to do. I'm interested in hearing from people about whether they notice any effects, whether you tried it once and walked away from it or started really noticing a difference. I'm going to try it too... because it overlaps with something my T taught me; seems very similar.

http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/viewzone/BrainMagicView.html

This was something she showed me how to do, to deal with my anxiety levels... get them back down to bearable, garden-variety, obsessive worrying that I could talk about. Even that last part left after awhile too. One simply sits comfortably in a chair and does a basic body relaxation technique - tensing and relaxing different parts of the body, working from the toes on up... while one holds your hands together in a loose ball - all fingers/thumbs touching, lightly as if you're holding something round, fluffy and very, very delicate in them... maybe a kitten? A giant seed puff? And breathing in a meditative, comfortable pattern, letting your hands expand and contract with your ribcage...

I don't need to do the above anymore; not unless I'm in a very stressful situation... but it worked very, very quickly for me. And I was able to reduce the initial 2 minute time limit we set on this... down to a few seconds, and still obtain the needed relaxation effect. I guess the theory is, that we disrupt the amygdala's tried & true initiation of the flight/fight/freeze effect... and redirect the attention to the frontal cortex... simply with focus, attention, and concentration - and that it doesn't require a lot of time... just enough repetition (which will vary person to person) to break the old neural pathway habit.

The other part of the theory -- and this is where I'm most skeptical I think -- is that this simple retraining can also change our emotional habits... thereby "improving our lives" by providing more pleasant emotions. (I'm know that's not enough to "improve" people's lives if they're barely making ends meet financially.) Anyone know if there is only one brain area involved in emotions? Or if it's alot more complex than that...?? I'm leaning toward the latter.

I know this sounds rediculously "airy-fairy" and like "magical thinking" almost. Absurd. But I also know that my T's exercise was an absolute life-saver for me at that time. It worked, every time... until I didn't need it. So far as I know, neuroscience hasn't figured out exactly how brain activity & thought disruption create or change emotions. I believe that our physical body has some impact on this also... but these are all parts of the same larger machine or bio-system of ourselves. My thought is that our emotional selves... our "feeling being"... is produced by and dependent on the functioning of the rest of our selves... because I know it works in reverse, via my psychosomatic symptoms.

Anyway, I thought I'd share the link... since we've touched on this a few times... and maybe a few of you will try it and let me know what you think. Hold off deciding if there's anything to it... until you've tried it... let's say 10 times. I don't think once is enough for most of us to notice anything... but I also don't want anyone to waste their time, either.

Thanks!
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

KayZee

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2011, 10:24:38 AM »
Hey P.S.,

This experiment looks fascinating.  And I'm in desperate need of some post-holiday stress-busting!  I'm going to give it a try (plus the body-tensing relaxation exercise).

Let you know how it goes!
lots of love, Kay

sKePTiKal

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2011, 03:57:54 PM »
Yeah, I'm with you Boat - it does seem too simple. At least until one adds repetition into the mix - that's based on re-grooving neural pathways; neural plasticity and is an accepted premise in the science. Anecdotally - I experienced a success with this and my MIL. She'd had a strong stroke with the usual speech and right-arm weakness. In rehab, her mood started to really deteriorate and she was moving from depression into hope/helplessness. Both hubs and I brainstormed ideas to a.) give her something to distract her and b.) help her regain physical-brain cooperation.

At the time, I had access to physical therapy course materials and consulted those and the professor who taught those courses - specifically neuroscience for PT majors. What I found was very hopeful... and since MIL had been quite the accomplished seamstress and immaculate crochet practicitioner... I got large yarn and the biggest crochet hook I could find. She protested that she'd never be able to crochet again... but we kept telling her to just try. I reasoned that even after the stroke, there would be enough strength and body memory in her hands... that they would connect visually and tactilly with her brain... that she would be slowly be able to regain the ability to follow multiple, complex steps... manage a process in other words. She'd been crocheting all her life - I knew that skill and knowledge couldn't simply evaporate unless she'd experienced more brain injury than we were led to believe. It worked... and within a year she completed a baby afghan for her new great-grandson. Lots of other kinds of things remained difficult or beyond her... but getting back a lifelong skill gave her back some confidence in her ability to recover. That pushed her over the edge... into positive effort, experiment, trying... that motivation that many seem to feel is beyond us, from time to time.

For me - it was one of my wild guesses; a shot in the dark... but the research I started doing, made it seem like I was on the right track. Other experiments like that, didn't work out so well. And later, we discovered there was probably other medical - organic, physical - reasons why.
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Meh

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2011, 05:52:30 PM »
Okay P,

How do you do it though? A person focuses mental energy on a section of the brain and vebally says "click" and imagines the brain changing? Is that how you do it?

sKePTiKal

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2011, 08:40:12 AM »
Hmm. The link I posted shows a picture of where the amygdalas are in the brain. Sort of on a line between your eyes/ears; midway. Then you're supposed to imagine that you're tickling them with a feather. That's what they mean, I think, by "clicking" attention/function forward.

I don't get much of any result from this; I wondered if anyone else did.
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BonesMS

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2011, 08:52:50 AM »
Hmm. The link I posted shows a picture of where the amygdalas are in the brain. Sort of on a line between your eyes/ears; midway. Then you're supposed to imagine that you're tickling them with a feather. That's what they mean, I think, by "clicking" attention/function forward.

I don't get much of any result from this; I wondered if anyone else did.

I have to say, in all the studies that I was required to read in graduate school, I had never heard of "tickling the amygdala" before.  It makes me think of visual imagery of the pleasure centers of the brain....FWIW.

Bones
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sKePTiKal

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2012, 09:35:24 AM »
I don't know yet... but it feels like it's too big for me to lift all by myself. I'm gonna need a whole group of big men to hold it in place while I make the welds... maybe it's an ark?? It feels like boat... a house boat maybe... I keep seeing these inch thick sheets of steel that need to be precisely shaped; molded and stretched and then joined together with a permanent "seam"...

Maybe a giant Mad Hatter teacup out of steel. Sorta Claes Oldenberg... he's a sculptor who's done things like this. Sorta whimsical... sort of a visual "why not"?
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Meh

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2012, 02:52:44 PM »
A visual Why Not!?-----I love that!!!!

sKePTiKal

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2012, 08:57:41 AM »
You know what's weird, Boat? (about me...)

is that I get more of a pleasurable tingle... a faint, wry smile on my face more from contemplating an oversize steel teacup (and a whole painting composition to illustrate the phrase "ass over teacup") than I do, visualizing that stupid feather tickling my brain.

Visual why nots... have been fun things for me. The old painting I did that I miss the most was titled: The Sound of one Flip Flopping...
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sKePTiKal

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 08:16:17 AM »
Well, tt - I'm not sure how seriously "science" takes this, either. I am still rather skeptical. Try it and see if you notice any "cause & effect"... let me know. I'm almost afraid that this might be one of those experiments, where the subjects reported results, simply to please the folks who came up with this and wanted to test it. That's one type of suggestibility... I think.
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Guest

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 01:39:50 PM »
The Sound of one Flip Flopping...

Hahaha :D

Thanks for that!

sKePTiKal

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2012, 01:43:17 PM »
Yeah, like the instant gratification of a magic pill...

oh lord, just now thought about it! Maybe there are side effects of things like this? Or it only "works" if one is truly in a certain frame of mind, already?

I've wondered about that, because over time... things like the anxiety exercise that I learned from my T don't work now, if I intentionally focus on it and try to do it. Instead... it's sort of a "shorthand" or code phrase that takes me right to the calm... my "happy place" if you will. I just remember the exercise... ahhhh.... calm.

In other words - it doesn't "work" because I don't really need it. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Meh

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2012, 03:23:34 PM »
P: I think you pointed something out. There is a technique that involves bringing a person into the present, tangible, here and now moment, to recognize that the world and their body physically is okay regardless of what sort of emotions they might be feeling. If they are too into their thoughts. Possibly that is part of what this technique does. It reminds me of a quote that basically says we don't have control over lots of stuff, gender, race etc. But that we have choice over our attitude. This remind me of that more than brain-rewiring. Will have to give this one some time and real consideration though, I've only made a first impression judgement so far.


sKePTiKal

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2012, 05:23:11 AM »
Well, that makes a lot of sense to me Boat! You know I've been trying to "see" the mind-body connection from a lot of different angles... and lately I have shifted some more "center of gravity" into my linear, detailed, left-brain analytical side and trying to balance that with totally worthless, but rewarding "play".

These kinds of techniques leverage that mind-body connection interest me because of my personal dysfunctional psychosomatic sensitivity... I've got one new thing to throw into the mix... the placebo effect is getting attention again. In the news I read, there were a couple of things to ponder... in light of where we started this topic. Asthmatics who were given a placebo in their inhalers, did as well or better over time... even when they were told they had the placebo. There is evidence being collected that it absolutely doesn't matter if the subject believes they've been given the drug or told they weren't. That's nugget A.

Nugget B, was that a group of bell hops were told that their job provided the perfect conditions for them to become physically fit and healthy... versus a group that didn't hear this made-up claim. Yet the ones who were told this fairy tale - after 6 mos or so - WERE in better shape; lost weight... lower blood pressure, etc. compared to the group members who were told nothing yet had the same level of activity on the job.

Nugget A suggests to me, that as long as an individual feels they can DO something to help themselves... the act of doing something all by itself, will have the desired effect, especially when it - in this case, has worked in the past because a drug was delivered through the inhaler.

Nugget B really interests me... because in my long struggle with smoking, I read a book one time that claimed to debunk the idea that quitting was horribly difficult. The author said we've been told that so long, that we simply take it as fact and don't question it...when in truth... if we believed it was easy-peezy... and had messages bombarding us that this was the case... a lot more smokers could quit. Nugget B illustrates the premise behind "Fake it till you make it", too.

For a long time, I've felt like I was my own worst enemy... because of how my brain worked - sabotaging me... now I wonder how much of that feeling was simply the ingestion of a misinformed, malevolent, message that I heard repeatedly????

Anyway Boat, please share anything you run across while you're pondering... anything that "shows up" on your idea radar. Or anyone else, who's working on this line of inquiry.
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Meh

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Re: Experiment - for what it's worth
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2012, 08:05:33 PM »
Play away!! Bombs away SPLAT......thats what happens when you stand right next to a person with a water balloon.