2019 Farm Life

[sKePTiKal]

For sure Buck is OK. He agrees with my plan, going forward from here. It's just going to take some repetition before it settles in.

Not re-instating parent-child roles; but establishing some new boundaries. It's one thing; if one of us girls is in the midst of a serious crisis for us to drop a lot of boundaries and try to shepherd the other back toward balance & the light again. But when there is no crisis; we need to go back to each of having the space, privacy & autonomy to have separate lives. That includes freedom from being analyzed by the other. That habit is particularly harmful in an active work situation.

She has this idea (and I might be partly responsible for her having it) that one of our responsibilities as humans is to constantly work toward "perfecting" ourselves. I have no issues with her doing that for herself. But when she extends that out to other people - including me - based on the premise that she can see what needs to occur and that she's right about that... Houston, we have a problem.

Now add in a new fear that mom is getting old and you're responsible for making decisions (later) when mom can't. Mix well. And those "observations" and "suggestions" - no matter how well-intentioned or caring the impetus - are experienced as heavy-handed, unnecessary, and essentially intrusive. I don't care that she calls it "encouragement" - when you set an expectation above & beyond someone ELSE'S personal needs & goals - it's not welcome and makes things worse. She's well aware she can't control other people, but she doesn't accept that her "encouragement" might just be rejected. Nope, she considers that more evidence of decline.

Hence, friction. And a moment even, where I re-experienced the worst of Twiggy's abuse. She rejects that I've moved past it - simply because I can be reminded of it so vividly. Ironic, huh?

Perhaps, this was all to spark me "pulling rank" in the first place; not saying it was conscious - only that she was wanting it. Precisely because I had given up being consulted about use of space here, the scheduling of announced/unannounced visitors to MY space, because anything I said was too constricting for her... and if I didn't say it... it erupted later anyway.

It's the damned if you do, damned if you don't thing. If I vacumn - it's the wrong time or I'm being OCD; if I don't vacumn - I must be depressed and I'm not getting enough exercise. Hell yes, I'm gonna give up - retreat - and try to evaluate things from a more objective viewpoint to figure out what the hell is going on. THAT is crazymaking. But then, she's accusing me of the same thing. Right. OK.

While she was gone for a few days, I honestly collapsed into exhaustion. The lack of demands, microscopic analysis, and QUIET - the two guys here just did their thing and didn't engage unnecessarily - were PERFECT for me to try to sort out what's going on. Part of it, as she explores & learns about co-dependence and how it manifests in different situations, she's seeing everything through that lens of traits. And it's absolute right now in her mind. Any little sign equals clinical level problems. LOL. I know I've been guilty of that particular brain quirk too.

It's going to be a little while before she's able to see that behaviors that may meet the definition aren't necessarily an indicator that the person IS that way totally; it's only when it's pervasive throughout all their personality and interactions. Like the difference between N and a healthy ego.

Her brain can digest new information very quickly. And she actually is one of those people who will ponder it, watch & observe, and come to her own personal understanding of it. It doesn't have to match mine down to the details. No matter what she wants. (We disagree on political issues, too - but also have established common ground between us on the real life things that unfortunately have been politicized.)

So by "pulling rank", I do mean upping my watch on boundaries again. Finding those ways of letting her know - she doesn't need to do this and it's aggravating; without rejecting her natural concern and actual caring. Sigh. Like I need one more thing to do.

I sit in a very uncomfortable position to write lengthy things like this. I got up and she asked if I was limping or just stiff. The "smart ass" sarcasm jumped out and yeah, I'm stiff - I think I'm gonna fall and break my hip!!!  I think she got my point.

So to keep myself from being totally self-conscious about what I say & do; how I say/do things even; I have to make myself safe somehow behind the boundaries and let this run it's course. She'll figure it out eventually and I'll be trying to point her in that direction.

[Hopalong]

I so hope she does figure it out, Amber.
I really am sad about this kind of stress. I am so glad you have Buck. The sooner he comes, the better!

Something blunt but true (notwithstanding the implied heartache if it came to pass) is that if she is not ready to learn the lesson you describe here, well, you'll have a lovely, rentable cottage on your property now.

She needs to earn, not assume, her right to live there.

And, because I project my own solutions onto everybody, I wish you two could go into family counseling before it gets worse.

love and comfort,
Hops

[lighter]

The book THE PARALLEL PROCESS  might be useful, Amber.

It's geared toward parenting young adults in recovery, but it's an amazing encyclopedia for boundaries, good choices, and helping us grow alongside our kids in healthy ways.

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

Thanks Lighter. Maybe I'll read that this winter; as the farm schedule goes into high gear for work around here - getting ready for winter.

Tomorrow the wizards of HVAC are installing a new condenser in my a/c - so I'll have cold air again to counter the rediculous heat we're still having. Contractor breaks ground on the Holly Hut (General Mayhem's HQ) and I for one, will be celebrating. I'm picking up the House Guest this evening, so he can earn a few more bucks helping knock some of the chores off the list faster. (There's a LOT of extra stuff going on this year.) Almost all the posts are set for the fence around the pond field; another good days' work and they can start stretching wire and set the gates. When that trailer moves, I can finish the drainage around the barn. (Bobcat's kinda blocked in for work there; but I could finish the refinements I'm making to the driveway.

Hol and I are building some steps from the parking area to the front yard, kitchen beds, etc. It's pretty steep there and even the dogs are kinda tentative about using that path. It's tricky for me when it's wet/snowy. We've done this work before together; she had a good design suggestion; I've had a chance to get eyes on it up close & personal (not just imaginary on paper crap) so I think we're good to go. She and Matthew MIGHT start clearing off the back deck - she wants to build a walking path up that cliff to the hut site - it'll be a more direct, shorter way to go back & forth. I want the fire break that close to the house, and she wants the shorter distance. Then there's the garden tilling for next year and cleaning up kitchen beds and putting them to sleep for next year.

We NEED rain desperately. Last year, it never stopped. Fire is becoming a worry.

And if Buck can sort out his med appts, I'm sneaking away for a few days at the beach with him. Just us. SOON.

And I think the Hol situation is sorting itself out. She reported a useful dream, to that effect. And we have been able to find ways to talk about difficult subjects in more productive ways. I don't think a person can simply "decide" - I'm over this now - like she believes. If that were true, I wouldn't have had my revisit of Mike grief - 4 years later, on our anniversary. What she lived with, for 10 years in the last relationship is what she's working on changing for herself. It's dysfunctional to change roles and do what she suffered with to me. But if I realize that's what's going on and control my own reactions to it... she will also eventually realize what she's doing. She's real smart that way. But she is working INTENSELY at a lot of levels on it. Her whole life disintegrated and changed in the last year. That's a lot to process.

[Hopalong]

((((Amber))))

This is in response to your latest post over on Relationship, thought I should put it here. I'm glad things are better with Hol today. (So this may seem out of sync.)

Amber---
Of course it "kinda" hurts.
I hope you won't minimize it.
Your love for and your perceptiveness and your running forgiveness for her are lovely.
They still don't grant her license to keep hurting you as she deals with her own stuff, no matter how difficult it is. Her Very Bad Year doesn't excuse her taking it out on you.

Hope you'll talk about this whenever you need to.
It's important.

Big hugs and comfort,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Hops, love... she is VERY close to having her own realization of what she's been doing. I think it's very important for me to leave her to it, and perhaps nudge her gently into acknowledging bits & pieces of it. She's good at adding 2+2; connecting dots. It'll stick a lot better if she achieves this all on her own.

The talk has improved a good deal. There have even been those deep laughing at ourselves moments for absurdity in our actions. It was a turning point when I was able to puzzle out what she was doing; and the why of it. Like she has said many times (right before she criticizes again - LOL) - it's not a personal attack on me. So while initially it DID hurt; it's shifted more into concern for her. But we have a long history of sorting things like this out, in our stumbling, bumbling, flailing fashion. So we DO have the ability to put it aside; leave it; take a break.

And coincidentally, it's not a bad reminder for me to remember just how I can remain "safe" and "whole" and not lose my confidence or trust in my self... when someone makes an unfair observation or criticism. My autonomy is intact; and it's non-aggressive in it's defenses. But it IS standing my ground and saying "fine, that's your opinion" and "I disagree with you." And defend that with actual factual evidence.

[Hopalong]

Good for you (both)!

This sounds like an excellent development.

You sound centered again. Sounds like Hol is truly working on it.

And you sure have been.

Bravo, Amber. You work on your own mountain as hard as you work on THE mountain.

You have a whole dumptruck full of patience and she is a lucky woman.

I loved your ending, about speaking your peace including disagreement. Holding that right dear.

Hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Thanks Lighter. Maybe I'll read that this winter; as the farm schedule goes into high gear for work around here - getting ready for winter.

Tomorrow the wizards of HVAC are installing a new condenser in my a/c - so I'll have cold air again to counter the rediculous heat we're still having. Contractor breaks ground on the Holly Hut (General Mayhem's HQ) and I for one, will be celebrating. I'm picking up the House Guest this evening, so he can earn a few more bucks helping knock some of the chores off the list faster. (There's a LOT of extra stuff going on this year.) Almost all the posts are set for the fence around the pond field; another good days' work and they can start stretching wire and set the gates. When that trailer moves, I can finish the drainage around the barn. (Bobcat's kinda blocked in for work there; but I could finish the refinements I'm making to the driveway.

Hol and I are building some steps from the parking area to the front yard, kitchen beds, etc. It's pretty steep there and even the dogs are kinda tentative about using that path. It's tricky for me when it's wet/snowy. We've done this work before together; she had a good design suggestion; I've had a chance to get eyes on it up close & personal (not just imaginary on paper crap) so I think we're good to go. I wanted steps, out front, and was reminded by my brother that steps are limiting.  You can't roll a cart easily down steps.  A wide, graded path can be appreciated when you have a heavy wheelbarrow full of whatever to get from point A to point B. She and Matthew MIGHT start clearing off the back deck - she wants to build a walking path up that cliff to the hut site - it'll be a more direct, shorter way to go back & forth. I want the fire break that close to the house, and she wants the shorter distance. Then there's the garden tilling for next year and cleaning up kitchen beds and putting them to sleep for next year.  Whew... lots going on, Amber: )

We NEED rain desperately. Last year, it never stopped. Fire is becoming a worry.  We had a lot of threatened rain, then it came down yesterday...  finally.  I hope it's heading to your neck of the woods soon.

And if Buck can sort out his med appts, I'm sneaking away for a few days at the beach with him. Just us. SOON.  That will do you both a world of good.  ::nodding::.

And I think the Hol situation is sorting itself out. She reported a useful dream, to that effect. And we have been able to find ways to talk about difficult subjects in more productive ways. I don't think a person can simply "decide" - I'm over this now - like she believes. If that were true, I wouldn't have had my revisit of Mike grief - 4 years later, on our anniversary. What she lived with, for 10 years in the last relationship is what she's working on changing for herself. It's dysfunctional to change roles and do what she suffered with to me. But if I realize that's what's going on and control my own reactions to it... she will also eventually realize what she's doing. She's real smart that way. But she is working INTENSELY at a lot of levels on it. Her whole life disintegrated and changed in the last year. That's a lot to process.  I think we keep the focus on us, as parents, when we react to our children.  If we can remain detached, and ask ourselves... IS what I'm about to say necessary?  Will it get me more of what I want?  We give ourselves time to make better choices, and respond instead of react.  Being right is highly overrated, IME, and no one appreciates it anyway.   
Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

LOL... yeah, I'm not the one insisting I'm right Lighter. Just trying to make sure I don't respond with doubting myself, lashing out in defense, or seeking revenge.

I think the obsession with micro-analyzing every one of my words or actions that she has is basically to do with the fact that she expects a much higher level of interaction on a personal basis, than I want or need. Engagement, intellectually and emotional support at the same time. This kind of thing drives me crazy. It's like constantly picking at me, when all I want to - need to - do, is veg out and let the crazy settle... so I can have calm again. There is only one space that I can have that, in the house.

So yesterday was ground breaking on the Hut. Fence guy is hard at it, too. We celebrated; had a good time. But champagne for lunch was brutal. However, I let her call the shots on that and just went to bed very EARLY. Contractor was back bright & early this morning; but that was after I drove Matthew - part time help around here - back to town in rush hour. He's the former House Guest and is just the right energy for Hol to cathart (new verb I just made up) all the stuff in her head that she continues ruminating on; polishing turds... instead of being focused in the now. NOW, none of those old things matter; the how/why has limited instructional value to learn from; and the lingering emotional damage is more quickly healed with care & nurturing than it is, rehashing and reliving all the agony repeatedly.

She'll figure it out eventually. In the meantime, we don't have to be in the very same space doing the same thing ALL the time. When Mike did that, it made me crazy too. I really need my space right now. More so, because of Buck. I'm not able to put as much into that relationship - when my "quota" (capacity) for relationship stuff is already overflowing with Hol's stuff. And her constant diagramming of emotions - which are (IMO) way too mutable and slippery for that kind of "knowing".

She has a very different opinion on that topic. LOL.

[Hopalong]

I think the obsession with micro-analyzing every one of my words or actions that she has is basically to do with the fact that she expects a much higher level of interaction on a personal basis, than I want or need. Engagement, intellectually and emotional support at the same time. This kind of thing drives me crazy. It's like constantly picking at me, when all I want to - need to - do, is veg out and let the crazy settle... so I can have calm again. There is only one space that I can have that, in the house.

I feel I compleeeeeeeeeeetly understand this, Amber. It's so weird because my ENTIRE life until recently I considered myself a total extrovert. But I'm not. I'm that introverted-ex etc subtype, fwiw. And I respond to "too much input" with stress, rising BP, and anxiety. I didn't understand until M how easy it is to "flood" me.

I guess the poet side of me (long neglected) is about deep quiet. Time for thoughts and feelings to take clearer shape. To rise out of deep places within that won't unlock without peace. Badgering, whatever the source, is the antithesis of peace.

You DESERVE peace and have more than earned it, and Hol can't relate to that chapter that, in your maturity, you are entering. The eternal examination (and perhaps oversharing) of the detailed inner world with Hol is making less sense now. Someone else is appearing as your partner. You are also engaging yourself in different, healthier ways. She is threatened and flailing, because she senses her mother shifting her focus. I'm sure it's hard for her to adapt to, and sympathize.

Of course you love her. But change in relationship dynamics, even with a close parent, is part of the long curve of life, and 40 or not, she hasn't lived enough to internalize this truth.

I hope that not too much damage will be done before she gets there. That you've identified boundaries as the key to making it through this rocky surf is huge. That you're committed to them for your own sake, and for yours and Buck's, is even huger.

I'm sorry it's been such a primal struggle. But if anybody's strong enough to weather it, it's you.

Hugs
Hops

[lighter]

LOL... yeah, I'm not the one insisting I'm right Lighter. Just trying to make sure I don't respond with doubting myself, lashing out in defense, or seeking revenge.  I guess you'd ask yourself if what you have to say... or how you say it...  be it defensive, lashing out, seeking revenge... whatever it is that's going on between you and dd right now.... you'd ask if it's necessary, and if it gets you more of what you want.  It doesn't matter what your situation is,  IME.  You're just changing your reactions, and choosing responses, bc you want something different between you.   

I think the obsession with micro-analyzing every one of my words or actions that she has is basically to do with the fact that she expects a much higher level of interaction on a personal basis, than I want or need. Engagement, intellectually and emotional support at the same time. This kind of thing drives me crazy. It's like constantly picking at me, when all I want to - need to - do, is veg out and let the crazy settle... so I can have calm again. There is only one space that I can have that, in the house.  That sounds like an ongoing strain, Amber.  I hope it gets better soon.

So yesterday was ground breaking on the Hut. Fence guy is hard at it, too. We celebrated; had a good time. But champagne for lunch was brutal. However, I let her call the shots on that and just went to bed very EARLY. Contractor was back bright & early this morning; but that was after I drove Matthew - part time help around here - back to town in rush hour. He's the former House Guest and is just the right energy for Hol to cathart (new verb I just made up) all the stuff in her head that she continues ruminating on; polishing turds... instead of being focused in the now. NOW, none of those old things matter; the how/why has limited instructional value to learn from; and the lingering emotional damage is more quickly healed with care & nurturing than it is, rehashing and reliving all the agony repeatedly.   When Hol's brain is ready to finish the things she keeps talking about,  she'll find a way to do that work.  I really like tapping. 

She'll figure it out eventually. In the meantime, we don't have to be in the very same space doing the same thing ALL the time. When Mike did that, it made me crazy too. I really need my space right now. More so, because of Buck. I'm not able to put as much into that relationship - when my "quota" (capacity) for relationship stuff is already overflowing with Hol's stuff. And her constant diagramming of emotions - which are (IMO) way too mutable and slippery for that kind of "knowing".

I wonder how much of the need for space and peace is connected to introversion... getting energized from within one's own head, rather than from other people.  How much is connected to being drained by people who verbally process the things needing attention, as a matter of habit.  I'm comfortable listening to people talk about their struggles, and I enjoy those conversations.  What I don't enjoy is listening to people talk about their problems with no interest in discussing solutions, or attempting to find solutions.  People who are stuck ruminating, and comortable there, are people I can't be around comfortably.  Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

Hops - thank you so much! you get it. I have this emotional pull - like the ocean's undertow - that I can't ignore. Maybe I'm more romantic that I think? Not able to BE a poet, but have those leanings?

Lighter - OMG, come stay with me for a couple weeks. LOL. I need a practical brain right now. And you're dead-set on practical. I love it.

[lighter]

Amber:
I'm internalizing this myself too, so I write it out, more for myself, as I have trouble applying the concept consistently.  I do notice when I miss an opportunity for silence, but here goes.   

There's a moment when you (general) don't react to what your child just said... and it's just a second or two, and you have think...
Is what I'm about to say necessary? 
It's more of a reluctant  prod to self, rather than real question you intend to answer, IME.  It's not a real question, just yet, and that's all there is.  There's no follow up... bc it sits there,
will this get me more of what I want? 
Nope.   
Just that initial attention, and it's not a pleasant feeling, it almost feels like being self chastised.  It was an epiphany for me. 

When you start asking that question, and listening for the answer... be ready to notice things you won't be pleased with. 



The whole goal is providing the silence and space for our kids to focus on their part, and not on us.  We chime in, we take the focus.  It's interesting to see the shock on their face when we change things up, and take back our energy. 

We fail to provide the distraction they've become accustomed to.  They have some choice about what they pay attention to then.  Maybe they buck a little harder, trying to engage us back into the dance, but we resist, and they're left with themselves, their words, their actions, and self responsibility.

I'm guessing some kids buck a lot harder than others.  My oldest is very reserved, most of the time, around me.  She's very sensitive to what I say, how I look at her.

 When I read that any interaction with a child, that's not nurturing, is abuse.... that got me pinpoint focused on what I'm doing and saying around oldest dd.  I have some very big habits that I'm not proud of, but I understand, and forgive myself for.  I think I used to try to face beat her into compliance, or feeling more responsible, nicer, kinder than she was feeling, particulary about me. 

I forgive her for being mean,  and I forgive me for reacting to it,  and not being able to think my reactions through. 

I've been through a lot too.  Not just the kids.  I cut myself slack, and work towards what I want for all of us. 

I SEE MY T TODAY! 

I really like her. She's about a foot taller than me.  Very thin, which I am not, and has the carriage of a monk.   

::nodding::

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Lighter, what is "face beat"?

Pretzeling my brain to visualize...

Hops

[lighter]

 No idea, Hops.  Did I write that?  It's definitely a typo, lol.  I can't find it.

OH! OH!  Found it!

It's like browbeating, but with the entire face: ) 

Facebeating.
::nod::

Lighter