Author Topic: Signals that your therapist is a Narcissist?!  (Read 12669 times)

Living Consciously

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Signals that your therapist is a Narcissist?!
« on: September 22, 2003, 09:05:21 AM »
Hi all, Has anyone encountered a mental health professional who reveals themself as a narcissist?

If so, what are the warning signs?
"Blood is thicker than water but it's a great deal nastier too!"

Alan

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They might need work too.
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2003, 06:34:12 PM »
I know from personal experience that many therapists haven't done the inner work they need to.  Many will not admit that they do not know something or have the experience in an area.

1) No matter what the issue, if you're not comfortable with a therapist, run away fast.  Sometimes it just isn't a fit.

2) There's a difference between a thera. illustrating a point using their personal experience and dominating a session.  It should be about you.  If the issue is you not revealing or working in a session, there should be alot of silence.  If they talk too much or too much about themselves, run away fast.

3) If they admit to being an N, shoot them then run away fast.

I have found in many cases that a LCSW is better for immediate help, everyday stuff, more effective than a psychologist or psychiatrist.  LCSW are licensed therapists who deal with everyday issues and some, like mine, can do the psychotherapy work later.

No matter what, if you are not happy or comfortable, run away fast.
The Truth points to Itself

cindy

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Signals that your therapist is a Narcissist?!
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2003, 07:21:18 PM »
I'd watch for:

A feeling, even one that doesn't come until well after the session was over, that you are to blame.  Do you feel vague guilt?

A counselor not validating your feelings, which is usually more just about bad therapy, not N, IMHO.

A one right way to work on things, instead of an exploration of ways to work on issues.  Ns have THE answer.  This may be subtle and hard to pcik up, because successful therapy requires confidence in your therapist.  Trust your instinct.

But I'm not an expert...  Just some ideas.

iris

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therapist in question
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2003, 12:39:02 PM »
I agree with Alan, and several others. It is absolutely possible (and probable)that your instincts are accurate. Pay attention to what is making you bristle, and heed that warning. I would be willing to bet that the focus isn't on you, as it should be. I had an experience recently with a therapist that wanted to tell me about his relationship (and his sister's) with his mother and how it was no accident that they both went into the therapy business and further, how it was difficult for him to really focus on what I was saying, b/c it was so close to...not only was counter-transferring, he was 'happy to share'.  That was the first and last visit.

Alan

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Healthy Shame....
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2003, 02:02:27 PM »
When we have healthy shame, we can leave a therapist's office feeling bad and the blame for something if we truly are responsible.  T

his has happened to me bec. I was to blame in some areas.  I had to admit it was my fault.

But a good therapist will find a way or say something to ease the pain and help you incorporate the feeling and help us understand the whys of what happened.
The Truth points to Itself

CC

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Signals that your therapist is a Narcissist?!
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2003, 03:20:48 PM »
I have seen three different therapists, two of them excellent, one pretty good (very lucky, indeed).  What made them excellent?  The ability to make you draw your own conclusions of what is discussed in therapy and a sense that it is making a positive difference in your life.

All my therapists (one male, two female) were extremely gentle - any ideas they put in my head were just slightly inferred; i.e., "is it possible that ..."  and if you disagree with their conclusion, they support your decision to disagree and will offer another suggestion - or wait for you to determine one for yourself.  They will follow YOUR course and speed of healing, not theirs.   Good therapists offer little personal information about themselves - sometimes the more you know about them the more self-conscious the patient may be based on the information they've been given. If this one is telling you all about his/her own experiences, I would definitely see that as a red flag.  I would guess if you are getting anything other than this gentle nudging, that it is not the right therapist for you - narcissistic or not.

My belief is that 50% of good therapy depends on the therapists educational background, experience and so forth.  The remaining part is a combination of the therapist's intuition, ability to empathize, personal experiences perhaps.. AND most importantly, from the patient's (your own) willingness/readiness/timing to heal and work with the information and therapy you are receiving.

Of the three therapists I saw, the last one has been the most instrumental in my healing.  Not because she is necessarily better, but because I personally connected with her more and she was intuitive enough to draw me out (perhaps because of her own experiences and specialties). More importantly, for whatever reason, I was READY to receive the information.  My current therapist did not "diagnose" my mother with NPD from our discussions.  In the midst of my healing for depression I discovered it myself after reading a book recommended to me by a former therapist (The Drama of the Gifted Child).  Even though the book was recommended to me five years before, I didn't actually pick it up until this year - because I was ready to work and I was working with the right therapist.  Incidentally, she is not a product of an N family..though she has done child recovery work in other areas (that's all the info I could get out of her!)

If you are feeling any discomfort with your current therapist AT ALL you should run, not walk, to another.  You are wasting your time and money (they ain't cheap!) You may intially feel guilty - I did after seeing the 2nd one for 4 years  :shock: but I even though he was a "good" therapist I personally had reached a plateau and felt he wasn't doing enough for me (I also suspected he was smoking pot before my sessions because of the smell in his office!!)  

But it is their job not to take this personally -  express to him/her that you are not making the connection you need for whatever reason and plan to seek out another therapist.  If you are still uncomfortable, just tell them that you are going to take a break and maybe return later (then have the records transferred from one office to another by the new therapist).

Don't be afraid to SHOP for a good therapist just like anything else - to find the right fit.  And, if the therapist tries to argue with your decision  - I think you will have even more validation that he/she is the wrong one for you.

Incidentally, it is mentioned in the "Drama of the Gifted Child" book that narcissists and children of narcissists tend to be drawn to the field of psychology.  It also talks about (to paraphrase) being cautious about this very subject.. that some N-victim therapists will actually unconsciously try to have their needs mets through their patients and are essentially incapable of working with recovering N victims because of this conflict.  You are right to be suspect!!!

Good Luck!
CC - 'If it sucks longer than an hour, get rid of it!'

cindy

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Signals that your therapist is a Narcissist?!
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2003, 07:58:26 PM »
Mybe I should clarify, or maybe I just disagree.

I think we should feel regret and take responsibility for mistakes.  I think a person has to to be healthy.  A good counselor will help me clarify where my responsibility begins and ends.

I think blaming is useless, and I'm not crazy about shame either.    These two feelings are diffferent for me.  One is productive, and happens when I work with someone who validates my feelings.  One, especially the shame, makes me feel worse about myself and is not helpful. IMHO

Living Consciously

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Signals that your therapist is a Narcissist?!
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2003, 09:18:33 PM »
Thank you everyone for the time and energy you took to reply to my post.  I appreciate all the advice.  You've each given me something to think about.

The person my husband and I have been working with for the past 18 months revealed in June that she is the daughter of narcissistic parents.  About a year ago she told us that she doesn't do referrals to other therapists because she was the only good therapist she knew of!  (A bit grandiose, huh?)  In a private session with me this past spring she told me that she was psychic and thought I was too! (thinks she has "special powers - another narcissistic trait)  She seems to want to be overly involved in our problems - she periodically calls us at home at no charge between session to "check-in" and even gave us her HOME telephone number, home fax number and home email so that we could contact her if we needed to.  She further blurred the client-patient line by giving my infant daughter gifts on a monthly basis - a hat, 4 books, slippers, a stuffed animal and a small toy.

But what really bothers me is what she seems to need from us...she seems to be using us to fulfill her own narcissitic need to feel validated, appreciated and "right."  Even though we have never questioned her motives or commitment to helping us she continues to remind us how hard she is working to help us.  She tells us how much time, energy etc. she has spent on us - even though we are the "most difficult clients" she has!  She paints herself as a martyr and seems to forget that we never asked for this special treatment. We respected all of her boundaries but her boundaries are often too loose for our comfort.  

My husband and I decided last week that we weren't going back.  Honestly, we aren't in a big hurry to try again with someone else.  She had a PhD in psychology and was NUTS herself.   :x
"Blood is thicker than water but it's a great deal nastier too!"

Alan

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Hey
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2003, 11:48:24 PM »
I suggest you report her to a local professional board.  She has stepped somewhat over the line.
The Truth points to Itself

Living Consciously

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Signals that your therapist is a Narcissist?!
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2003, 09:06:01 PM »
Hi Alan, I would love to do this so other couples don't have to endure what we did but it would probably lead to a "he said," "she said" situation.  Plus, psychologists are reviewed by a board of their peers.  I have no doubt this woman would invent some terrible mental illness to explain my complaints about her.  I'm just not sure if I want to deal with all that narcissistic rage directed at me.  It feels healthier to walk away but I feel guilty about letting someone else fall into her trap when I could have done something.   :(
"Blood is thicker than water but it's a great deal nastier too!"

Alan

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Please....
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2003, 12:22:48 AM »
Gotta be tough here.  Don't talk yourself out of it.   Review boards will interview you for your side of it.  And if can be corroberated (sp) by a 2nd person, even better.

The bad therapists words will have to be backed up with the notes they keep on all patients.  Even subtle words like "Narcissist" and "God" are all red flags.

I understand not wanting to go further.  But if at all possible, make a complaint.  This "professional" is dangerous.

It might be swept under the rug.  Then again some professions are sensative to bad apples.
The Truth points to Itself

Anonymous

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Signals that your therapist is a Narcissist?!
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2003, 02:21:37 PM »
This is a difficult call in regards to reporting.  I had a similar situation and had to weigh between how much time I would spend on the reporting process and putting my energy into finding a more competent therapist.  Review Boards tend to be bureaucratic and litigious sensitive.

Having said that, reporting is also a tangible way of claiming a voice for your concerns.

One clue I had regarding my N therapist was her constant claim of "sucessful and powerful" clients.  She had a need to be identified as someone having  very "impressive" clients

Nic

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Signals that your therapist is a Narcissist?!
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2003, 08:45:19 PM »
I believe when one feels the need to seek professional help for any situation one should be careful to do a lot of homework.  For instance, it would be unadvisable to take out the yellow pages and go shopping for a therapist in my view just as one would use the same yellow pages to find a furrier or an electrician.
It goes without saying that psychological issues require much thought and much investment, whether it be dealing with trust issues and/or issues of vulnerability.
When one seeks help, it is often after becoming vulnerable enough to recognize that something is/was wrong, and "finding a therapist", because every other person is "in therapy" these days, is , granted, no easy task and therefore it should not be trivialized.
Tough issues will be dealt with and a certified psychologist or psychiatrist is a must in my view.  
Once in the relationship, the therapeutic relationship, the patient or client must face his/her trust issues.  Yes the therapist must give the client voice, especially if voicelessness is a central issue.  But the client/patient must also be willing to respect boundaries and guidelines established in  an interview where the goals of the therapy would be established.
We as patients are there to seek tools and strategies to deal with our present predicaments.  Unless there are blatant transgressions to decency and codes of practice and no matter how challenging facing certain issues can be,the client must always carry at least fifty percent of the effort.
The client/patient must endeavour to trust in his therapist's education level, after all, most certified therapists are practicing at the Master's level or have obtained Phds in their field.  Most have had to undergo their own psychoanalysis before they obtain a license to practice.  Many preconceived ideas and prejudices regarding therapists must also be shed by the patient population in my opinion, because many of these are fear based, projections and transferences.  These very obstacles can be deciphered by a good  therapist who will know to guide, gently but truthfully, and steer a patient back to the pertinent issues.
Most problems in therapy occur when there is resistance by the patient.  Often, plateaus are resistance.  A good therapist may use a variety of well tested and proven stategies to help the patient over the hurdle, so that progress can be made once the underlying issue is faced.
I want to caution the patient population to not blindly trust their therapists but also not to run away and sabotage themselves at the first sign of discomfort with a therapist.  They are human too and are not surrogate parents neither are they the family we never had, or the husband or lover who did us wrong.
It must be very difficult to be a therapist today.  The behaviour "du jour" has become the seeking of a therapist because everybody has one. Also, although everyone is a victim of something or other, and society seems unable to differentiate between being a victim and the victim mentality; there has been a decline in responsibility and accountability across the board.  It is not uncommon to hear of lawsuits against healthcare professionals who might have simply exposed or touched upon the real nature of an individual's problem only to be dragged to court by the same individual because he/she was not ready to hear it, to own it and take responsibility for it.
 The trivialization of therapy has resulted, in my opinion, in a greater number of pseudo therapists, those who have declared themselves so, and who provide mediocre care to a needy population without being accountable to a professional board.  I think this is where one would most likely encouter a "narcissistic therapist".
Also, it is up to the various professional organizations to police themselves and to ensure ethical practice within well established rules and guidelines and to see to it that these are valued and enforced by all.
I do not believe a therapist should be "nice" to you all the time.  It is not necessary to be "nice", but it is necessary to be caring.  Consequently, people who chose the caring professions, should endeavour to go all the way.  They should not be blackmailed by their clientele to agree with everything they say "or else."
I want to close by emphasizing the responsibilty of both parties involved.  Allowances can be made within the professional relationship and there should be very rigid boundaries erected from the begining of sessions to assure a safe and truly therapeutic environment.
On the old board, before this one was put up, i'll always remember a similar discussion where a woman told us how she had been stalling her progress until the day her therapist told her" listen, do you want to heal or not, 'cos if you don't stay home!"  I remember reading this and thinking, although it wasn't "nice" to say something like that it was the truth, and it seemed to have jolted the lady back to reality.
It's a tinge narcissistic to think one knows more about psychiatry than one's psychiatrist.  Granted, some are very strange outwardly, but it's the inside that matters no?
Kind regards,
Nic
All truth passes through 3 stages
First it is ridiculed, second, it is violently opposed,third,it is accepted as being self evident
-Arthur Schopenhauer

Amelia Rose

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Narcisstic therapist - Been There!!!!
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2003, 04:09:23 PM »
Signs of a N therapist?  
Never validates anything you have to say - criticizes whatever you have to say - despite being very descriptive in telling the therapist that "you are there" to try to help your family because your husband (the children's father) is emotionally and mentally abusive (didn't use the word Naccisstic at that time) - I explained in detail the abuse - the neglect - and the reasons "WHY" I brought my family to therapy - this N therapist  would NEVER acknowledge or give credit to anything I had to say.   After 6 sessions (paid out of my pocket) - we all agreed he wasn't helping us.  I told 2  friends about  him - the one encouraged me to call him and tell him about how I felt.  I didn't do it.  2 months later HE called and asked me how my family was doing.  I took the opportunity to politely tell him how he had mistreated me - etc.  He sounded so surprised - he said "Was it one thing I said?"   I let him in on the message "No - it was EVERY meeting."   I hope he thought about it - but probably not.

write

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what a fascinating thread.
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2004, 03:51:12 PM »
( thanks whoever pointed it out )

Personally now that I have sensitised to narcissism and personality disorder I can't be in the same room with someone who gives off the vibes.
In fact I overreact- I hope I calm down in time, but right now I can't bear narcissistic traits or anyone to trample on 'my voice'!
I imagine it's a response to not being heard for so long, now I want to be heard all the time.

Everyone here pretty quickly identified the narcissist or bad therapist: trust your gut instincts, always.