Confused

[debkor]

Watching Dr. Phil and how he says ...You never give in to the disease!  You fight!

So narcissism is not a mental disease...It's a personality disorder.   Substance abuse is a disease.

My friend has both.

When she was not addicted (to substance) she was No Way like she is Now.   Yes the substance abuse it back. 

I told her tonight to never call me again until she was in rehab. 

She denied, As high as A kite.  And now becoming a prostitute.

She refused to go to rehab or that she is using again.

I told her our friendship is severed.

And it's taking it's toll on me.

And she could possibly die...

And I have accepted that...but...I don't know if I should Fire Up and ...Fight for her.

I'm so tired and drained and sick...

I'm just so tired..

She always was narcissistic but ...with substance abuse  .....I can't even explain

She is dying.

Deb







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[Twoapenny]

Deb, I'm so sorry about your friend.  But one thing that I've learnt over the years is that you can't fight other people's battles for them.  If your friend was in rehab, trying really hard, putting her life back together after getting clean and you were able to support her then that would be a really lovely thing to do and she would be very lucky to have you around.  But if she's using (and denying it) then you really need to take a step back and focus on your own health.

A fair number of my friends have been addicts over the years.  I did a lot of drugs when I was younger and mixed in that sort of crowd.  Some of us sort of grew out of it and stopped messing around, others progressed to different kinds of drugs and became addicted.  Some got themselves sorted again, some died, some are still using.  One in particular - my best friend - just drained me so much that eventually I just stopped speaking to her altogether.  I had to, for my own sake.

It's interesting because I've just been writing about being in friendships that only work one way.  There needs to be give and take on both sides, and nice things, too - fun, laughter, good conversation.  Maybe it's time to let your friend go.  It might even do her good if she has to sort this out on her own?  I remember my therapist telling me once that if we keep fixing people's problems we stop them from learning how to look after themselves.  Maybe you can see this as a gift to both of you and step back from it?

[debkor]

TP,

I won't fight her battles.  I can't.  If I had that power..she be in recovery.  I only have power over myself.  By firing up, fight...I mean...a professional intervention..again but I don't want to even do that.  I don't want to be part of anything.  I have already done that.  I have made myself clear (the first time) around. And the consequences.   She is on her own or at least without me.  I understand addiction is not a one Stop deal.  She has an opiate addiction.  Very difficult.  Could be rehab multiple times.

I won't allow anything.  I wouldn't even allow her in my home while the storm Sandy hit.  I don't want the toxins in my life or around my family and other friends. 

I don't want to hear her voice.  I don't want to take a phone call.  I don't want to do anything.

Right, that is for my own sake.

I don't want to be even part of a support team.  I accept, I understand, I forgive.  I hope she finds sobriety, love, and peace. 

My T once said many years ago....When you have a flower, you have to water it, nurture it or it will wilt.  Then it dies.  There is nothing you can do to bring back that flower.

And this friendship..I think I'm beyond wilted....

and I can't fire up...not even with being part of a support team..

I surrender and am leaving this up to God.

At one time we were friends.  We had laughter, conversations, and many memories (for a lifetime).

But that was then and Now is Now....I'm moving on.


You know when her S was 15 he asked me if I had hope for his mother?  I said, I guess there is always hope.  He said, I don't.  I now have hope for me.
He is now 18 and an Awesome human being!!

Oh and...I have not had much contact with this friend for a long, long time.  For the most part...when we did have contact ...it was enjoyable but short.
Since the addiction (has taken off) not enjoyable even for a short period of time and...the calls are in the middle of the night, break of dawn, even showed up at my house...

It is interesting because they say Narcissism in a bottle is very much like Narcissism.  So when you recover from substance you can have full recovery and heal.  But if you are a narcissist and have substance addiction you can recover from substance but how do you heal, if most narcissist, don't. 

I remember a woman in Al-anon saying her husband was in full recovery from substance for 2 years.  The only thing he changed was his drinking.  She didn't like him.  And divorced him.

And now I'm rambling...So goodnight all!!

Deb


 





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[BonesMS]

((((((((((((Deb))))))))))))))))

I hear ya!

Sometimes the best thing you can do is detach with love and let them go.  None of us wear a red cape and a red letter S on our chests.  We can't save them from themselves if they don't want the help.  I've had family members and friends die as a result of their addictions.  I had to accept the fact that I did not have the power to save them from themselves.  The only thing I could do was take care of me and let them go.

Co-morbid disorders make an already maddening problem worse....especially when NPD is in the mix!  If therapists are flummoxed and muddled when attempting to treat a client with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, how could we succeed where professionals fail?  We are not super-human beings.  The best thing....the only thing...we can do is focus on our own recovery and let the chips fall where they may.

Just my two cents worth.  (Paraphrasing a friend of mine:  "Plink, Plink!")

Bones

[Hopalong]

It helps me to think of chronic addiction as a disease like a strange kind of cancer.
With the right treatment, and with the patient's courageous cooperation and commitment to FOLLOWING the treatment, many but not all cases, are cured.
(And when that does not happen with addiction, this means to me that this addiction in this person was one of those diseases that could not be cured. No point even in blaming the person, because we don't know the mysterious molecular-biological-psychological vulnerabilities that added up to...that person could not do the self-help part of their own cure.

Convoluted, but I think I'm trying to say that there is so much emphasis on the self, in addiction and recovery -- and on emotional and mental and spiritual things -- all of which our culture encourages us to believe we can control through sheer will or character ... that it's like, one can't see it as a part of nature ALSO. (Not instead of.)

In nature, there is random death, and disease, and wilt, and fungus, and incredible toxins, and as many mysterious ways for life to die, as for life to flourish.

So if a friend is victim of one of THOSE addictions -- as painful as it is, I think I get to a point when I begin to feel I can only look at that person as part of nature (not only part of the human community, but also an individual within a species that is suffering one of nature's cruel consequences.) And at some point, I recognize that if I continue to battle with their disease to the point of being burned out, drained, and exhausted -- I may fall victim to one of nature's nasty consequences too.

And though it's hard to accept when one cares, the truth is, it is okay for me as a natural being to honor my own drive to survive.

That's why I dropped a friend I loved, who was dying from his inability to fight his addiction disease. He has rallied now, and I hope it lasts forever, but I am unable to stay friends with him without becoming sick myself.

It was a terribly painful realization, but I am at peace with it now. I feel I know much about how you feel in this situation, TT.

You are good. And kind. And caring. To save your own serenity, is not unloving. It is honoring life.

love,
Hops

[lighter]

Deb:

I'm so sorry your friend is struggling, perhaps dying, but you can't save people from themselves.

You just can't.

((((Deb))))

Lighter

[debkor]

Yes, Yes, and Yes ....to all.  Exactly how I feel, but there is one thing bothering me, still.  I know many things that I will not reveal to anyone (any family member) there is need for them to have more pain and suffering.

No more secrets.  One more thing to be done for full release.  I am going to reveal things I know.  Things that could destroy her children (emotionally). 

I have to speak to pastor (and he's not my pastor) but he does counsel her S.  He is the closest person to God that I know.  I have to hear myself, say it.  Reveal it.
For my own sake and for her S's (children's sake).  It should be known so he can deal and help deal with (whatever is going to come her children's way).  She will dump on them more then ever now.  She is being cut off by everyone, except the people, that do the same as her...or the ones that can be manipulated. 

They have No Idea...what's to come.

I do and I have to release it.

Deb

[lighter]

Oh gosh, Deb:

This sounds like something you've needed to get off your chest for a while.  It's not fair to have to carry around her dirty secrets by yourself for so long.....

time to pass them on to someone else who can at least help the children, you're right.

This isn't your burden to carry any more. 

Lighter