Interesting letter to President Obama

[teartracks]

http://jgcaesarea.blogspot.com/

Yes!

tt

PS  oops - I forgot I'm not political

[sKePTiKal]

Well, tt - I wasn't political either.

Until the definition of the word changed... and someone else told me: since you don't believe like I do, of course... YOU'RE POLITICAL. (And if that reminds you of something N... well, LOL!!!)

Being concerned about what's going on in the world: not political. Because if it can happen "over there"; it most definitely can happen "over here".

Caring about values that appear to be metamorphizing into something the total opposite -- maybe mestastcizing (sp?) is the better word: not political.

Watching as that big, powerful word - freedom - is slowly, through a thousand cuts, reduced to a list of dictated do's and don'ts and preferring freedom over walking on eggshells: not political.

Honestly, it's possible to overlay what we know - all the stuff we've learned about psychology, relationships, boundaries, and PDs - on current events... and start to see the patterns emerge. What's happening is not chaos; there is a method in the madness. I am so not a fan of madness; crazy people... and people who profess loudly all their virtues and empathy... and then stab you in the back.

Something from that blog struck me - the description of people in Gaza being able to live a "normal life". We know there's no one definition of "normal", in terms of human psychology. It's more a matter of degree... the term is relative. It really has to be, as each of us is unique.

In nature, as we observe predator and prey... and competition even among the species for resources... violence is normal. Fear and it's survival reactions, also normal. Perhaps, it's N of "mankind" to think they've evolved beyond those instincts and therefore "peace on earth" is "normal"... when in reality that peace comes only to individuals, at various times... and it is not possible to "enforce" peace as a geopolitical behavior at all time, in all situations. The concept of "righteous anger" comes to mind. Standing up for ourselves, defending and maintaining our boundaries, and expressing anger... are all examples where, as individuals we put "peace" at risk. We risk violence for freedom.

I dunno - take all that above as someone shaking a whole bunch of ideas together in a cup and tossing them back out, trying to see if there's any combination that makes any sense. Rolling the dice.

And that's the professorial "we" -- hardly, the "royal" one! LOL.

[sKePTiKal]

Ah, no dear tt - you didn't say anything that made me feel labelled. I can free associate with the best of 'em!!



I have discovered that naps - and then plenty of sleep - can be plenty therapeutic.

[teartracks]

Hi PR,

I can associate with the best of them too and if I'm not free, I'm 'reasonable'  .

tt

[gratitude28]

I think the author is correct. As long as you don't agree with the leftist version of events, your say is not counted. And I am dismayed that despite the fact that Hamas uses children as shields and has no respect for its people, and that they have been attacking Israel with rockets for months, we do not condemn their actions, but instead blandly state that Israel can protect itself as long as it is being not to hard on Hamas. Really?

OK, I stop here because I am truly tired of politics and our media. I no longer read the news - I glance at it and believe that 85% of it is false or hyperbole. On all sites. I am disappointed in our nation and our weakness.

[sKePTiKal]

Internet is a huge luxury for me but not to have access to what the media is saying. I believe they think they've captured the global collective mind.  It's scary to think that they might have.

This is one time, I really hope you're wrong, tt!! But the evidence is stacking up that way, I have to admit.

I'm afraid hubs' tv habit, is almost all media, all day long. I'm the reader - and again, I'm inundated with different viewpoints and sources. You'd think this would really trigger all my old anxiety stuff... but except for a vague "urgency" to take care of all the "have tos" and "want tos" on my various lists, I seem to be rather calm. Well, except for the tourette's reflex to calling BS, when someone says something idiotic on tv!! LOL...

I can only take care of and control so much, before I wear myself out. So, while I ought to be throwing wide the doors to infinite horizons of living and thriving - bucket lists, and all that - I find myself pulling those horizons in a lot closer instead; being like a squirrel stashing back acorns for a long, cold, nasty winter. Going back into "what I know"... making things... making allies, too; local ones... being the steward of my little plot of earth... and taking care of the people that make up my business. Our little community has it's issues -- and it feels sometimes as though we're under siege from people who don't even live here, yet feel entitled to tell us what to do. We've grown our own ways of helping out those who need a hand - whether from life stuff or another storm. And we'll do that -- if those people who think they know better than the folks who live here what is the right thing to do -- will just leave us to it.

OK, that one thing I bolded... might just trigger me sometimes. Not with anxiety, though.

[gratitude28]

One thing I will say that keeps me sane... life is cyclical... everything. I live by "This Too Shall Pass." I also look at my immediate surroundings for happiness and comfort. My little family gives me no end of joy... even when prodding my son to get his grades in order
xxxxoooo to all of us

[Hopalong]

I just led a small discussion group on post-election processing.
The gist of it was, regardless of which way you voted or how you identify yourself politically:

How was this election season for you? What were the surprises?
Did any events in the campaign or election challenge any of your beliefs? If so, which ones?
Do you have friends or loved ones who are different from you politically?
When you engage those whose opinions you oppose, what works? What does not?

It was a wonderful, meaningful discussion. The outcome or "take-away" boiled down to
our conviction that the only positive way to engage those who disagree, is to listen deeply, hold
compassion, and be genuinely curious. Asking, "Why would you say you see this issue this way?"
Or, "What life experiences have you had that have contributed to how you stand on that?"
Or, "Can you tell me more about this?"

I liked this experience.

xo
Hops

[gratitude28]

Hops,
For the most part, I enjoy the company of people who think as I do and hold my beliefs. But I understand with some good people why they believe what they do that doesn't agree with my beliefs. I feel there are a lot of people who do not think, though, and spout of emotionally charged baloney. Not sure if this is more so now than in the past or if I am just grumpier and older
xxoo

[Hopalong]

Well sure, TT. I think real curiosity involves deep interest in what shapes and inspires another.

I don't think one needs to be afraid of "losing" the self by being open. If compassion is the
first rule, then humility is its natural companion.

Deeply felt convictions or lifelong reasoning may not shift because one chooses to be
geniunely interested in another's. But sometimes they do. I'm sure that it allows the blockages
in relatedness to shift, as long as there's no abuse. I experience that shift as something ultimately
hopeful, I think. Outside of the fringes and the echo chambers, I think it saddens most people
to feel deeply alienated from their fellows.

Even when someone disagrees with me passionately, or I do them, if respect and
genuine curiosity (the goal being to learn from, not to "trip up" the other) are at the
core of an interaction, well, I believe in a ripple effect, more than I do conversions.

Ever the hopeful, if not the optimist...
Hops

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hops (and others on this thread),

You might enjoy Jonathan Haidt’s book:

The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion


 http://www.amazon.com/The-Righteous-Mind-Politics-Religion/dp/0307455777/ref=tmm_pap_title_0


While I disagreed with some of the author’s arguments (e.g. on group selection) and particularly his conclusions (that all “pillars of morality” should be viewed as equal), the book stimulated some lively discussion in my non-reality book group.

Richard

[gratitude28]

Thank you, Dr. Grossman. It's nice to review the materials you bring up here. I really like that you have added so much here lately. And although this is from another thread, I think that you should not have to treat people for free. I believe that you are insightful and caring and should be rewarded for your work. Just through this site, you have made an enormous, positive change in my life and I will forever be grateful to you.

[BonesMS]

Hops (and others on this thread),

You might enjoy Jonathan Haidt’s book:

The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion


 http://www.amazon.com/The-Righteous-Mind-Politics-Religion/dp/0307455777/ref=tmm_pap_title_0


While I disagreed with some of the author’s arguments (e.g. on group selection) and particularly his conclusions (that all “pillars of morality” should be viewed as equal), the book stimulated some lively discussion in my non-reality book group.

Richard

Thanks, Richard!

I'm going to see if my local library has this book.  One of the questions, in the back of my mind, is if this book also addresses the issue of racism?  This has felt like a double-whammy for me, personally, during this election season.

Bones

[sKePTiKal]

Hops - I'd like to hang on to that hope, as well.

I find that what you are describing is only possible if the other person has a minimum number of miles and personal experience behind them. It is truly a joy, then, to discuss politics... solve the problems of the world... and cooperatively dream up some solutions. Basic, raw values bubble up from those conversations -- held, believed, and actualized -- in common. It's like the old scene -- two young studs have a disagreement that escalates to a fight and when all the anger is worn out... they shake hands, throw an arm over the other's shoulder, go have a drink... and are the best of friends forever.

This vignette, I think... has at it's root the idea that people are valuable; all people. And that we can "move on" together.

I have been listening - albeit I usually don't subject myself to that kind of abuse of my beliefs. I've been finding that no one listens to me - in fact, to open my mouth and make the attempt at this kind of thing invites a form of interpersonal violence of the most childish and ugly sort. EVEN among people who profess to share the same beliefs. There is no other option for me -- except to walk away, retreat, withdraw -- shut up. It FEELS like this isn't even a genuine conversation; it feels more like a power struggle... which then poses a whole lot of questions... because it's clear that those seeking power are working very hard to disenfranchise "the other side"... in a tit for tat move... which really doesn't make a whole lotta sense, since there was no disenfranchisement that was forced on them... (cognitive dissonance has become more frequent for me lately...)

And this situation, has at it's root the idea that people are disposable - UNLESS they validate each other's beliefs. The tribal tendency, herd instinct, of buddying up with others of like-minds... is reinforced by those kinds of experiences. The confirmation bias at work in these "factions"... and their fact-checkers... is the elephant in the room. And Lord, don't try to talk about that either!! It's sure way to get verbally kicked, repeatedly... and cussed... and dismissed.

So much of this mess... is people taking "marketing" at face-value, having two sets of "facts" -- for each group -- with no facts shared in common (divergent views of reality, sometimes)... and to me, with my life experiences... well, I don't believe this is going to end well. It's too crazy-making. I want no part of it. Fortunately, it's not the first time I've wished I could just be beamed up somewhere else - LOL. I've got some practice with this.

[teartracks]

I just led a small discussion group on post-election processing.
The gist of it was, regardless of which way you voted or how you identify yourself politically:

How was this election season for you? What were the surprises?
Did any events in the campaign or election challenge any of your beliefs? If so, which ones?
Do you have friends or loved ones who are different from you politically?
When you engage those whose opinions you oppose, what works? What does not?

It was a wonderful, meaningful discussion. The outcome or "take-away" boiled down to
our conviction that the only positive way to engage those who disagree, is to listen deeply, hold
compassion, and be genuinely curious. Asking, "Why would you say you see this issue this way?"
Or, "What life experiences have you had that have contributed to how you stand on that?"
Or, "Can you tell me more about this?"

I liked this experience.

xo
Hops

Hops,

I think the questions you pose would make an interesting poll here.  It's a busy time of the year though and putting a poll together might be too time consuming. 

tt