Won attorney fees in custody trial

[lighter]

It's been a long road, but we finally won our attorney fees on top of the Judgement in the case. 

The gave us pretty much every penny that could be given in the "interest of justice."

Almost certainly the IL's will appeal, and it's unclear what happens at that point.....

typically when they win appeals things shoot right back to the Judge that dismissed their case in the first place.

I'm told perhaps things could end up in the Supreme Court, but not sure how that would work, or why. 

So, at some point it's possible IL's will be compelled to comply with this latest order, but it's also possible they'll stop filing new cases if they have to pay our fees going forward....

no payoff outside of emotional harm they do, which is enough for disordered people with unlimited resources, IME.

That's my update.  At some point I want to share my story on this board, along with the biggest lessons, to help people dealing with psychopaths, children, and the legal system.

When I started this journey I mistakenly believed I was dealing with an N, and I made mistakes I wouldn't have made had I known what I was dealing with.

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Lighter, I'm so glad you've won this round and really hope that they don't appeal.  It's time to close this down, I'm sure.  But I know what you mean about knowing they're likely to do it anyway, I'm just hoping they'll leave things alone now.  How are you feeling?  Relieved or does it still feel like there's more to do?  Hoping things settle for you soon.

Tup xx

[lighter]

Hi Tupp:

I'm feeling a bit demoralized, really.

The gifted pd's posturing as victims while chewing up their victims using the courts as a club, not caring how badly they chew up the children, who tell masterful lies in a very plausible manner while accusing the victims of what they themselves are perpetrating have taken up too much of my time, and have booked too much of my future.

::shaking::

We win every case, Tupp.

When does it end?

Lighter

[Hopalong]

I can truly relate, word for word, to that description, Lighter.

My brother. Exactly. And his harm to my child, counted in the later collapse of our mini-family.

Very
hard
to
forgive

But time will pass and wise boundaries will hold and letting go will eventually be possible for you.

Kudos on the relief about the fees. I hope it stops here.

love
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Hi Tupp:

I'm feeling a bit demoralized, really.

The gifted pd's posturing as victims while chewing up their victims using the courts as a club, not caring how badly they chew up the children, who tell masterful lies in a very plausible manner while accusing the victims of what they themselves are perpetrating have taken up too much of my time, and have booked too much of my future.

::shaking::

We win every case, Tupp.

When does it end?

Lighter

Ah, Lighter, I'm sorry to hear that.  I know what you mean and where you're coming from.  It's hard playing by the rules when the people you're playing against don't.  I've got to a point with our situation where I need to let it lie; like you, they've taken up too much of my time and it could go on indefinitely.

I'm looking up to the Universe and asking that they let you be, now, enough is enough and you should be enjoying your kids and the nice people you have in your life.  I hope it ends soon and that this becomes a memory and nothing more.

(((((((((((((((((((((Lighter)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Love Tupp xx

[fraidycat]

Congratulations on your win Lighter! It looks like people are seeing through their farce, I hope it ends soon and ends well for you and your family.


Fraidy

[lighter]

OK, I feel gratitude now, and less demoralized, though it's not entirely gone I must admit.  Not knowing when it ends is the hardest part at this point I think.

I hired my old stellar attorney to handle what he can with regard to remaining legal matters, and feel more in control, less at the mercy of the pd's and court system.  No more dropped balls from here on out.  All I can do is be as proactive and prepared as I possibly can, and that's it.

The tide is certainly changing in my favor, and I suppose my new motto must be "Better late than never."

Simply not fighting wasn't an option.

Not making it to the point where the worm turned would have been......

I have no words to describe that scenario, so I won't try. 

Hops.... I'm sorry your struggle with your brother spilled into your relationship with dd..... there's just no protecting everyone completely, and we do the best we can.  I know you did your best.  You're Hops.

Tupp, the rules were written for people who follow rules, not for the rule breakers.  Very frustrating.  Terrible to be jerked around by pd's accusing us convincingly of what they're doing to us.  Egregious and I must agree with Amber...... karma comes around, and it lands on everyone's head  .  Ok, the part about landing on heads is mine.... I'm paraphrasing. 

How is your situation with holding your mother liable, and the agency and asshat who helped your mother harm you and your ds?  Is that over?  What happened? 

Fraidy:

Thank you for your good wishes.  I have faith all will be well, and even if things aren't OK.....

it's going to be OK.

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Hi Lighter,

My situation is on a back burner at the minute; I've sort of done what I can for now and am waiting for other people.  I've put a lot of thought into it and I feel like they can still take up too much of my time and energy from this 'old' stuff.  I'm 40 this year and it's a real turning point.  My life up to now has been them, them, them.  From here on in I want it to be me and my boy, my friends, my work, hobbies, life, you know?  So there's plan a, b and c - a is the lawyers deal with it all, b is I accept there's no case and just send necessary amendments to various agencies so the records are accurate and walk away from it and c is that I've heard on the grapevine that my mum is very ill so she might die and make everything else unnecessary.

I think our situation is different to yours as my mum tried to obliquely get my boy rather than trying for custody, if you see what I mean.  So yep, it's kind of out of my hands now and I will accept whatever the Universe decides is best.

I'm glad you're feeling a bit less demoralised but yep, I can understand how draining, frustrating and ultimately just how unnecessary all this has been - a battle that didn't need to be fought and that should never have been able to get to the stage it did.  It's harrassment, pure and simple, and there should be protection from it.

So I hope the Universe smiles down on you, wraps all of this up and send a lightening bolt to put those people out of action for good.  Lots of love xxx

[lighter]

Tupp:

Do what you can, and that's all you can do.

It may be time to check in with the people you're waiting on.

Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the oil.  People in positions of authority tend to do things that need doing NOW, and the other things get pushed to the back of the line.

The sooner this is over, the better.  Perhaps it's time for a very firm check in.  Case or no case, you need answers and the answers will be what they will be.

Making peace with that seems like something you're already on top of, but.....

it's time for you to have answers, IME. 

Here malicious abuse of the legal system in order to intentionally inflict emotional harm is a statute that must be filed at a certain time, during a case in order to have access to it.  What do your statutes say about those kinds of cases?  It's almost like the social services systems were used against you...... if there's no recourse for abusing it, harming people egregiously while utilizing it, then there should be.  Perhaps your mother won't be able to use it again, but the person in that system who made it possible for her to do so is still there.  Still able to harm other people.  I should think it would be difficult to turn your mind away from holding them accountable and taking their authority over the most vulnerable in society would be something that keeps you up at night. 

It certainly is one of the things keeping my attention, so I do what I can which won't include lawsuits, but rather filing complaints (with teeth) to licensing boards and Judicial Qualifications Boards, and doing it the very best I can.  I want them out of the jobs where they're doing so much harm, but it's not up to me.

At this point it looks like the pd's have completely covered arses.....

::shrug::

OK.  I can live with that.  Chances are they'll lash out using the system again, and I won't drop any balls when that happens.  I'll have a case so well prepared......

I'll be listed as Defendant again, but I'll end up being the Plaintiff, and what does that mean?

To be on the.....

Offensive.  Able to contain the damage and inflict some of my own, to the right degree, on the right people, for the right reasons with the added benefit of putting an end to it once and for all. 

Perhaps it's a cycle, and we're almost at the end, Tupp?

::nodding::

I know this..... if simply crawling free of the wreckage, chaos, crisis and manufactured confusion is all we accomplish.....

it's enough.

It'll have to be. 

Give your little man a hug for me, and keep moving toward the exit door.

(((Tupp)))

Lighter
ps

[Twoapenny]

Hi Lighter,

Your post was very prophetic!  The legal stuff for us falls into three different camps and I got a definite no back from one this morning.  Will chase up the others.  Feel kind of relieved in a way, like I can just let it go?

Complaints were made at the time, upheld and no action taken against the people involved.  The state system in the UK is very corrupt and whitewashing is always the most important thing.  Social services have a particularly bad reputation, as do the police.  It's all about numbers and targets so they drop cases they can't win and write them up as non-crimes and children's services go for easy targets (like single mums with health problems) and leave big scary child abusers alone (not all of them, obviously, but far too many for the system to be considered just and appropriate).  So yep, heading for the door now.

Will pass on the hug!  One for you and your girls as well  ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Lighter and girls )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[lighter]

Tupp:

I hope your answers arrive very soon.

Whatever they are, they're the beginning of the end.

You'll be able to close that chapter, and leave it behind without regrets.

If others file complaints in the future, yours will be there in great detail, offering support and corroboration..... perhaps the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Finally.

 It's right and good to finish it and let it go...... the start of fresh beginnings, which you deserve and are entitled to, for you and your boy.

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

Excellent, Lighter! May this be the end of it. (and you're free to use any ideas I've uttered that make any sorta sense...)

I've been gone, about another 10 days again. This time alone, driving 6 days to spend 3 days at the business. Driving is good for simply emptying one's head and letting the wind whistle through. It's sort of a cleansing. Of course, my bro was in our meeting - and of course, all my interactions with him were fraught with the usual crap. My mom turned 80 this year and I stopped to see her a bit.

Honestly, not one bag o' crap or trash has moved in her space since the last time I was there. There are the same paths through the stacks. And she started with the complaining by phone before I even got there. SIL was out for a run, and got back before I left so I got a chance to watch her childishly vent her hostility directly at my mom... and watch mom pull the victim-cloak of miserableness around her.

And then I spit gravel, in my haste to get on the road. Took a couple hundred miles to the get the taste out of my mouth.

Nothing's changed with my grandsons and D's... except that H and her fiancee have finally started discussing feelings, options, ways forward, etc. together. A is doing her best to weasel out of psych evaluation, and as far as we know still going to meetings; but the oldest boy is on a waiting list for his... and I believe that's one of the reasons that no court date for custody has been set yet. The boys really want to go home, at least according to A. Neither H or I have been allowed to speak with them.

Part of me is bracing for that situation to get worse, before it gets better. But neither H or I regret taking action when we did. The alternative was unthinkable. And while some of the reports back about the boys are worrisome, foster care is still better than abject neglect and having a wacky, scary, unpredictable parent.

Lighter the whole time I've been here, you've been going through your version o' crap. Whether directly, indirectly, richochet'd, and/or boomeranged. While I agree, that "good" has to stand up to and refuse "evil" to have sway within whatever little square foot of earth we control... we just can't fix or bring justice to it all, everywhere. Sometimes, it helps to just spin the tires, spit gravel... and go where evil ISN'T. Sometimes that's the best, all around.

Life's too short, to spend all those present moments on that kind of crap.

[lighter]

sKep:

Well the PD's filed TWO appeals, and this certainly is not the end of it.

I'm in offensive mode at this point......

honestly.

It's very hard to wrap one's mind around the fact that offensive tactics (the pd's tactics) are what have a chance of bringing closure.  It's giving up hope that any settlement can be reached at all.  That any agreement will bring resolution.  It's getting hammered, without resistance, until you start hammering back, and where does that lead?

Honestly, I'm taking the chance that it eventually backs to pd's down.  And here we are at the end, and all rational people NOT hounded by PD's will never understand finally making a stand and going on the offense. 

"It's about to end", "Just let it go", "Aren't you ready to move on and just leave it behind yet?" they say.....

like I any control over it ending, or not.

It comes down to this.....

I can stand and react to the legal punches, as I always have, or I can be proactive and throw legal punches back in hopes of backing the pd's down.

I might not be able to throw punches as the pd's, but I can darn sure touch the people who're advocating for them in the system. 

::sigh::

This sucks.  It takes time, and money, but I was already spending time and money.  It's just added time and money to go on the offensive, but at least I'll have some hope of actually ending this some day?

Not sure about anything, but I will tell you this. 

Professionals (Docs and attorneys) don't like ratting each other out.  Yesterday I shamed a very good and reputable psych into performing an evaluation of the psych that harmed my children, and I find myself terribly relieved.  I'm experiencing very little conflict about going forward, not just bc it might save other children and non pd parents from being harmed in the future by this incompetent psych, but bc I think it's the right thing to do, for the right reason, at this time.

It feels right, and the psych helping me knows it's the right thing too.  That's how egregious the complaints are, and I just have to make peace with that. 

I'm following up on the complaints against opposing counsel today as well.

::gathering wood::

Honestly, I found myself hoping there would be no appeals filed.

Silly rabbit.

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

I hope this all settles at some point, Lighter.  LIke you, I found the system works to protect the abusive - it's very much survival of the fittest and anyone with honesty, integrity and morals is at a disadvantage.  You are right to do whatever feels right for you - it's different things for different people.  But I do hope that it settles at some point so that it's not such a big thing in your life; we all need some peace and tranquility in our lives and it's hard when other people are pulling at your coat tails.

[sKePTiKal]

You poor dear.

No one LIKES being forced onto the offensive - actively pursuing a threat for the sake of one's own self-defense; it's a last resort.
But, if that's where you are, know that no one DARE criticize you for defending yourself: they aren't in your shoes. I'll be the first to cheer you on and help you troubleshoot your tactics. Give you a place to bounce ideas off, you know?

It's something that confused the crap out of me, way back in Twiggy's story... and someone (I think it was Carolyn) explained to me that the "turn the other cheek" rule doesn't apply in a life/death situation. Well: when someone is making your life a legal hell, it's just a technical definition shy of life or death. You just want to be left in peace. It's your RIGHT to go about your life without having to answer legal accusations all the time.

Someone needs to "let it go" - but it ain't you.

I fear for the future of our society, in that it's value-system is being turned upside-down and inside-out and spotlights are being trained on the fringe, the freaky and odd, the dysfunctional - and they're being held up as MODELS... and we are losing the basic bonds of having values in common: like the golden rule, the simplest, most universal values and virtues. In fact, people who work hard and hold to those values are being denigrated in our society - in the popular culture. Used to think my noticing this, meant I was a paranoid pessimist given to flights of fearful imagination... but it's not me... it is, unfortunately, real.

Then, I thought: my.... I'm getting old and cranky!... until my 30-something D brought up exactly the same observations. I feel a little better about having natural hermit tendencies. Keeping my FOO at arm's length with their multiple dysfunctions and not letting them guilt me into becoming the "sucker" in their games...

LOOK: I'm digressing again, rambling aimlessly... this is just WORK: a laborious task, to be executed with attention to detail and the utmost patience (!!!) just like cleaning out an endless Aegean stables... it's a dirty job, thankless job, but someone's gotta do it if you EVER hope to be done with these people who have more money than sense or soul. You are training these people to leave you alone. It's barely personal... but apparently they didn't get the message the first time.

Go get 'em, Lighter!!!!!