Had a row

[Twoapenny]

Just needing to get this off my chest somewhere safe

Had a day out with my son today, lovely day, place we've been to many times and always really enjoy ourselves.  Shortly before we were going to leave a man pushed his son in front of mine in a queue for a ride and my son missed his turn.  I pointed out to the man what he'd just done and that my son had now missed his go and he shrugged his shoulders and turned away.  This made me very angry.

I spoke to the man about this later (when he was alone) and said I thought he was setting a dreadful example to his son by pushing him into behaviour like that.  The man's wife came over and had a real go at me, saying that I was aggressive, verbally attacking them, following them round, ruining their day out and that I'd humiliated all the people around me when I'd spoken to her husband.  When I pointed out that the least he should have done was apologise she ignored that and just repeated everything she'd said before.

It was horrible, humiliating, embarrassing and a very unpleasant way to end the day.  She threatened to get an official to sort me out and told me to stop following them and harassing them.  Her husband had disappeared without saying a word before I'd even finished my first sentence.

I felt physically sick, was shaking and felt like crying.

What I thought about on the way home was that I could have just said nothing at all, or I could have walked away when she started her tirade.  But I feel that what they did was wrong and I think I should have said something.

I was polite, level toned and non-confrontational, although I did raise my voice at her nearer the end when she said she felt sorry for my children.  That made me angry.

I feel I should stick up for my son; to me it was important to show him that his place in that queue was important and that their behaviour and lack of apology was unacceptable.  I would have preferred him not to have seen the row afterwards but I feel I handled it reasonably well, without swearing or making threats (although I really just wanted to give her a slap).  It was just a shame the day finished like that(although to be honest I don't think he actually noticed what was going on as his autism makes him rather insular).

Anyway, just wanted to get it down on paper (screen!).  Thank you

[BonesMS]

You stood up for your son!  BRAVA!!!!!  Idiots who shove their way into queues are just plain STUPID and RUDE!!!! 

[Twoapenny]

You stood up for your son!  BRAVA!!!!!  Idiots who shove their way into queues are just plain STUPID and RUDE!!!! 

Ha, thanks Bonesie, I've been getting angrier as I've thought about it - a grown man bullied my son, refused to apologise when pulled up on it and then walked away while his wife gave me a tongue lashing because she thought I shouldn't have said anything!  As you say, stupid and rude!

[Meh]

Wow Two,

That was brave of you, sometimes we just have to put our foot down and stand our ground I guess.

People who act like that probably rarely have people stand up to them and get away with it often. You were right, there are basic social rules of politeness which they transgressed. So they had to deal with their own embarrassment of being called out on it...and they didn't like that. So they said some crap about you...because they want to continue living their lives not abiding by social rules because it suits their own needs best.... But hey somebody had to say something to them.  

I'm sure that you came across more confident and calm than you think. Good job.

It's sort of irritating because I think people like that also "judge" who they can metaphorically cut in front of and who they can not. That is what pisses me off the most is that people take one look at me, think I am mild mannered and too polite to say anything... LOL  Got into a stressful fight with a man who cut in front of me at the foodbank when I used to go there. The wait is like 2 hours to get in...so when this drunk fool cut in front of me, I wasn't having it, he ended up getting so frustrated that he just went home. LOL which is fine with me because I recognized him as somebody who just parties every night and drinks can't be bothered to spend some money on food. Oh and also can't be bothered to stand in line for food... And he said I was being mean... I think I was also shaking after that experience, because gosh, a man could beat the crap out of me if he decided to.

It's the same kind of thing, people don't want to wait, think they are somehow special, often get away with the same ol' BS....and then they make it your fault...Because in their mind you should not have been standing in line anyways...LOL The world is full of them.

[BonesMS]

You stood up for your son!  BRAVA!!!!!  Idiots who shove their way into queues are just plain STUPID and RUDE!!!! 

Ha, thanks Bonesie, I've been getting angrier as I've thought about it - a grown man bullied my son, refused to apologise when pulled up on it and then walked away while his wife gave me a tongue lashing because she thought I shouldn't have said anything!  As you say, stupid and rude!

((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Hopalong]

Ain't no tiger like a MAMA tiger, Tupp...

I know what you mean though -- you roared, but felt sort of shaken by it.

I feel that way as well. I always feel poisoned by anger, even when it's JUSTIFIED.

(((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))

Nobody does anything perfectly, including assertiveness..

xxoo
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Ain't no tiger like a MAMA tiger, Tupp...

I know what you mean though -- you roared, but felt sort of shaken by it.

I feel that way as well. I always feel poisoned by anger, even when it's JUSTIFIED.

(((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))

Nobody does anything perfectly, including assertiveness..

xxoo


Hi Hopsie, you know, I think it's that thing we've talked about on here before, where other people don't play by the rules?  How do you challenge/remonstrate/correct when others don't play by the same rules or code/ethics/manners etc?  Grrr.  It does leave you feeling shaken afterwards, it brought a lot of old memories back.  I haven't been spoken to or accused of things like that since the last time I spoke to my mum - and even she's very big on manners so she wouldn't have pushed a child to the front of the queue like that

[Twoapenny]

Wow Two,

That was brave of you, sometimes we just have to put our foot down and stand our ground I guess.

People who act like that probably rarely have people stand up to them and get away with it often. You were right, there are basic social rules of politeness which they transgressed. So they had to deal with their own embarrassment of being called out on it...and they didn't like that. So they said some crap about you...because they want to continue living their lives not abiding by social rules because it suits their own needs best.... But hey somebody had to say something to them.  

I'm sure that you came across more confident and calm than you think. Good job.

It's sort of irritating because I think people like that also "judge" who they can metaphorically cut in front of and who they can not. That is what pisses me off the most is that people take one look at me, think I am mild mannered and too polite to say anything... LOL  Got into a stressful fight with a man who cut in front of me at the foodbank when I used to go there. The wait is like 2 hours to get in...so when this drunk fool cut in front of me, I wasn't having it, he ended up getting so frustrated that he just went home. LOL which is fine with me because I recognized him as somebody who just parties every night and drinks can't be bothered to spend some money on food. Oh and also can't be bothered to stand in line for food... And he said I was being mean... I think I was also shaking after that experience, because gosh, a man could beat the crap out of me if he decided to.

It's the same kind of thing, people don't want to wait, think they are somehow special, often get away with the same ol' BS....and then they make it your fault...Because in their mind you should not have been standing in line anyways...LOL The world is full of them.

Ah Green I think it makes me more angry when people queue jump at something that people need?  People push and jostle in bars and clubs, getting on and off the tube, at concerts and so on but in a line for a food bank?!  That's disgusting - I expect the drink played a part with that man?  Good on you for standing your ground - I think you're right when you say they pick people they think they'll get away with doing it to - I'm kind of short and small and my son's obviously got health problems and yep, no-one else said anything (despite the fact about six other people saw what happened) so I expect they probably do get away with it a lot.  One day they'll annoy some big scary dad

[Twoapenny]

You stood up for your son!  BRAVA!!!!!  Idiots who shove their way into queues are just plain STUPID and RUDE!!!! 

Ha, thanks Bonesie, I've been getting angrier as I've thought about it - a grown man bullied my son, refused to apologise when pulled up on it and then walked away while his wife gave me a tongue lashing because she thought I shouldn't have said anything!  As you say, stupid and rude!

((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Thanks, Bonesie!  A lesson learnt - next time I'll speak up and/or intervene sooner.  I saw what was going on before anything actually happened (in the queue) but I didn't want to assume the worst so waited to see what the man was going to do about the child (I assumed he'd call him back).  Should have jumped in myself and stopped the little lad getting on.  Next time!

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((Bonesie)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[BonesMS]

You stood up for your son!  BRAVA!!!!!  Idiots who shove their way into queues are just plain STUPID and RUDE!!!! 

Ha, thanks Bonesie, I've been getting angrier as I've thought about it - a grown man bullied my son, refused to apologise when pulled up on it and then walked away while his wife gave me a tongue lashing because she thought I shouldn't have said anything!  As you say, stupid and rude!

((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Thanks, Bonesie!  A lesson learnt - next time I'll speak up and/or intervene sooner.  I saw what was going on before anything actually happened (in the queue) but I didn't want to assume the worst so waited to see what the man was going to do about the child (I assumed he'd call him back).  Should have jumped in myself and stopped the little lad getting on.  Next time!

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((Bonesie)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tupp)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))   

[Ales2]

The people who get away with this kind of stuff, do it frequently, without a confrontation. Their aggressive response kind of tells me they are or have been confronted in the past.

Sorry this happened to you, but kudos for being assertive. I think I would have taken them up on their offer to get an official involved. What they were doing was making false claims and intimidating you.  The "sick" feelings you had were probably Ok, I think they come from stepping out onto new ground and that tests your equilibrium, literally giving you the sick feeling. Stick with it, it only gets better.

I had a business dispute with someone earlier this year.  Basically, he lied to me (cost me $2k in legal and travel fees), I called him on it in an email to his attorney and I dont get an answer, I get a cease and desist letter. These people know how to work the system to their advantage. Total scumbag. He was intimidating me saying I was harassing him and his colleagues. Not so. Anyway, a temporary win for him, a loss for me.  I went away, but his lies did not.

Hope you have a good week.

[Twoapenny]

The people who get away with this kind of stuff, do it frequently, without a confrontation. Their aggressive response kind of tells me they are or have been confronted in the past.

Sorry this happened to you, but kudos for being assertive. I think I would have taken them up on their offer to get an official involved. What they were doing was making false claims and intimidating you.  The "sick" feelings you had were probably Ok, I think they come from stepping out onto new ground and that tests your equilibrium, literally giving you the sick feeling. Stick with it, it only gets better.

I had a business dispute with someone earlier this year.  Basically, he lied to me (cost me $2k in legal and travel fees), I called him on it in an email to his attorney and I dont get an answer, I get a cease and desist letter. These people know how to work the system to their advantage. Total scumbag. He was intimidating me saying I was harassing him and his colleagues. Not so. Anyway, a temporary win for him, a loss for me.  I went away, but his lies did not.

Hope you have a good week.

Wow, Ales, you know, I think when people respond like that it shows that you're telling the truth, if you see what I mean?  It's such an OTT reaction, and as you say one designed to intimidate and shut you down.  I think it's that the really annoys me is that these people do something bad and then deny you the opportunity to even speak about it?  Often all that's needed to put a situation straight is an apology, or just an acceptance of responsibility.  Grrrr.  As frustrating as it is, you know your conscience is clear (although that's not always as satisfying as it sounds!).

I've straightened out over that incident over the last couple of days, it really bothered me and I was surprised by that.  But I've set the right example to my son; I stood up for him and when challenged I was (reasonably) calm and polite and kept making my point.  Probably the first time I've done that so I guess it will be less of an event if it happens again

[Hopalong]

When I was being attacked by my brother, and later (unspeakably sadly) by my daughter...
looking back, the idea of projection seems to keep ringing over and over.

My brother could not face his neglect of his parents, or his lack of caring.
So he accused me of being neglectful and uncaring.

My daughter could not face her own lack of control over her life.
So she tried to control everything about me, for that year.

It stuck me that when the wife chewed you out, one thing she accused you of
was "humiliating them." But...you can't feel shame that someone else assigns
to you, without it kindling a ready ember in yourself.

So she had some shame about the incident, and tried to project it back.

Projection is pretty amazing. I used to stop with the word and think I was
done understanding. But looking into it, it seems so remarkably simple.

Hitler projected his self-loathing onto the Jews. We know how that worked
out. (Sorry to mention him, his voice was just on NPR...)

Hops

[Twoapenny]

When I was being attacked by my brother, and later (unspeakably sadly) by my daughter...
looking back, the idea of projection seems to keep ringing over and over.

My brother could not face his neglect of his parents, or his lack of caring.
So he accused me of being neglectful and uncaring.

My daughter could not face her own lack of control over her life.
So she tried to control everything about me, for that year.

It stuck me that when the wife chewed you out, one thing she accused you of
was "humiliating them." But...you can't feel shame that someone else assigns
to you, without it kindling a ready ember in yourself.

So she had some shame about the incident, and tried to project it back.

Projection is pretty amazing. I used to stop with the word and think I was
done understanding. But looking into it, it seems so remarkably simple.

Hitler projected his self-loathing onto the Jews. We know how that worked
out. (Sorry to mention him, his voice was just on NPR...)

Hops

I think you are so right, Hopsie, what she was accusing me of was exactly what I thought of her and her husband and their behaviour!  It's quite weird when people accuse you of what they are doing?  It's kind of hard to get your head round.  I am still asking the sky every day that your D resolves her problems enough to let you back into her life.  It makes me sad that she doesn't see what she has in you.  Still hoping that changes one day xx

[lighter]

Hi Tupp:

I wrote a reply, but see it didn't make it on the thread.

::sigh:

In a nutshell, I think you're learning a new language....

it's unfamiliar.....

it's the language of asserting yourself, and enforcing healthy boundaries.

More than anything, I think the line breaker was practice for everyday life, and that you had to say something to him for yourself.

From where I sit, it's a shift in dynamics for your life.

You might be going over the confrontation again and again in your mind, but at least you're not regretting that you stood by silently and did nothing. 

Sure, it feels awkward to stand up and say something.

It feels unnatural, but so does letting some pushy asshat get away with trouncing your boundaries.

The guy, or his wife, certainly could have uttered a small apology and ended the thing at any time. They didn't, and so you let them know.

::shrug::

They're broken, and can't do any better.  This was about their problems this time.  Not about yours, which I feel you addressed appropriately, btw.

IMO you're experiencing growth, forward movement, and deserving of applause, and a hug.

I give you both, my dear.

Well done.  Keep it up; )

(((Tupp)))