Am I Passive Aggressive ?

[Ales2]

Ok, I already know the answer to that question.

I have the following symptoms:

• Severe problems with procrastination
  Procrastination as a means of control, specifically my NMother at the moment
  Cant seem to finish things w/ groups/projects, people are always obstacles to me, they are uncooperative, resulting in project failure
  In talking with my therapist, I remember his body language would cringe when I complained, seemed envious, jealous or resentful, seemed dependent, exhibited learned helplessness, gossipy, and somehow, which is the big mystery to me, I somehow sabotage myself and dont achieve my goals.  

There are many things I do well:

• I'm hard working, put in long hours like everyone else,
  I am not late,
  I dont forget things,
  I participate fully,
  I'm organized etc,
  I come prepared with a friendly attitude,
  Outwardly I look responsible, but have the problems with the interpersonal relationships, I can complete things as long as I am in control (a script or short stories), but in co-op/group situations I run into trouble and I dont understand what I am doing wrong.  

I can fix/resolve the procrastination, complaining/jealouy thing outwardly by keeping my mouth shut and just doing the work, but dont know about the other 20% required to solve this problem.

I spent the last two hours looking online for PAD treatments, and support websites, but have not yet found anything.  Anyone have any suggestions?

Time are a changin' and time for me to focus on resolving my own problems.

[Twoapenny]

Hi Ales,

I'm really sorry but I don't know the answer to this one!  I can only think that working on the need to control would help all the other stuff and I'd guess a therapist would help with that, but one that doesn't 'speak' to you with his body language - what was that all about?!  I thought the point was that they are neutral? xx

[Ales2]

Thanks Two for your response.

His body language was cringing - he was tired of hearing me gripe, whine and complain. Too negative. But isnt that part of the therapy process to trust someone with our darkest feelings?

I feel like I trusted someone who then never really helped me overcome my weaknesses and wounds. I feel like confiding in him he saw me as a weak, hopeless mess incapable and undeserving of the life I was working towards. (while in T, I got laid off from an abusive boss, started and ended a relationship (a one year time psan) and lost my house down payment I had saved as a result of using the money to supplement unemployment and starting accruing debt again after I had paid off my car and credit card in full)

At the moment,  I am bouncing back, getting out of that awful hole I was in and kind of getting back to where I was before, but not sure if that will result in anything more than a changed attitude and a new job and a few bills getting paid. I dont know that the problems I am trying to resolve, having a house, career success based on writing and producing (instead of working in an executive role on projects) and a relationship/marriage/family will result or I will just plateau at where I was and make no progress. 


When I write this out, I just think he had no way of helping me improve.

[Twoapenny]

Well I'm sorry to be blunt but he sounds like a nasty little man who shouldn't be doing that job.  The whole point of therapy, surely, is that people will talk about their problems and from my point of view the best thing about it was that I got to spend a whole hour just thinking about me, not worrying about the other person.  How damaging that he behaved in that way, it really undermines the whole process!

From an outsiders perspective it sounds to me like you've achieved a massive amount already.  There's lots that I'd like to do that I still haven't and I don't know if I ever will, but I definitely feel much better mentally and emotionally than I ever did.  Do you feel like that?  What I found is that as my mind health got better the external things I wanted changed, so I wondered if getting yourself out of that hole (which was an amazing thing to do) helped you emotionally as well as practically?  I'm not sure this is making a lot of sense as I'm typing it because I'm tired and I can never tell whether I'm getting out what I'm trying to say when I'm tired but I'm hoping it's making sense anyway xx

[Ales2]

Hi Two,

Yes, he was a bad therapist, although I already came to that conclusion in another post. At that time, I also thought he was letting me wallow in self pity for me to get myself out the hole and develop emotional self sufficiency. If that was his goal, it worked, but I still feel betrayed by him (which is actually a PAD trait, to feel misunderstood or used) for his lack of feedback and encouragement. I left therapy feeling misunderstood, discouraged and used, which is why I terminated therapy.

As far as achieving alot already, thank you for the compliment, but I am 45, still renting, unemployed and single. Too late to have my own family, and so will have to work and buy a home entirely on my own. Im not out of the hole yet, but getting much closer. Only way out is a new job and then other things that are money dependent can change. Oh, but I did lose 10 lbs so far, and can tell that the PA is alive and well when my willpower takes a vacation and I go off program.

Thanks for your posts, I appreciate your support. I;ll have to read up on your posts and contribute this week.

[Ales2]

just feeling angry today. if i can figure out that my problems stem from passive aggressiveness as  result of the NWombDonor, why didnt my therapist ever mention it to me? there is plenty that can be done to clear up ones attitude and give me time to heal while learning a new way to interact with others and im plenty angry if there were ways for him to have helped and he didnt. guess even the anger is passive aggressive.

he sure let me wallow long enough when he knew i wanted to be married and have kids. i was 40 when i started t and was in a relationship that ended while in t. i dont blame him, but was he helpful? NO.

[Hopalong]

Hi Ales,
I think it's pretty wonderful that you have PAD to think about.
I think it sounds like a good fit, and it's great that you have this new insight
into your attitude and affect. Bravo.

For me, having names for problems/characteristics/issues has always been a
godsend. It gives me a window into reading, learning and exploring -- and if
self-understanding follows, the knowledge is more precious than anything.

What I think this offers you too is the opportunity to gradually get your inner
focus off what another person did to let you down, and gradually move your
inner focus onto how you can now learn, develop, help yourself to greater
engagement in your own life.

Like...not to feel utterly alone with your problems, but to shift most of your
attention away from how others affect your problems, and back onto how
perhaps your PA has encouraged you to avoid befriending or encouraging
yourself.

xo
Hops

[Ales2]

Thanks Hops.

I do get a mental shift out of the self inventory associated with a PAD, which in my case, seems mores situational rather than chronic. I have been between positions before, when I was a "competent professional" and never needed financial help before, but that was before I got traumatized by the abusive boss who led me to the discovery that my Mom is N. Malingering,procrastination/ leanred helplessness are three big signs of PAD, and I definitely suffer with those, my T probably saw that. But, what I also feel is that I lost that mature, competent adult self that I once had and I dont know how to get her back. This discovery hurt so much I regressed to being a wounded child. And wounded children even with a resume of professional accomplishments cant get hired or make progress, we fail everytime. I can use this information to self identify and improve, which is always good.

I think the most important thing for me these days is action, and sticking to moving forward, its seems life is 80/20. 80 is the practical work of finding a job, 10 is understanding my personal psychology and maybe 10 attitude/faith or law of attraction if you believe in that stuff. I can already say that my belief in karma is still strong, but not the golden rule - I feel like I was a good person, to the extent of being a naive doormat and have now paid the price. Not sure I believe treating abusers with respect or love or kindness will yield any in return. Thats just naive. Maybe the deal is that good people who treat abusers well will be rewarded, but not sure what that means in terms of actions. Now that I know their game, do I have to be kind with them really? I think NO.

As for befriending myself, Im working on that.

Thanks for your post Hops.

[Twoapenny]

Hi Two,

Yes, he was a bad therapist, although I already came to that conclusion in another post. At that time, I also thought he was letting me wallow in self pity for me to get myself out the hole and develop emotional self sufficiency. If that was his goal, it worked, but I still feel betrayed by him (which is actually a PAD trait, to feel misunderstood or used) for his lack of feedback and encouragement. I left therapy feeling misunderstood, discouraged and used, which is why I terminated therapy.

As far as achieving alot already, thank you for the compliment, but I am 45, still renting, unemployed and single. Too late to have my own family, and so will have to work and buy a home entirely on my own. Im not out of the hole yet, but getting much closer. Only way out is a new job and then other things that are money dependent can change. Oh, but I did lose 10 lbs so far, and can tell that the PA is alive and well when my willpower takes a vacation and I go off program.

Thanks for your posts, I appreciate your support. I;ll have to read up on your posts and contribute this week.

(((((((((((((Ales)))))))))))))))))

First question - what is PAD?

I think what jumped out at me in that post was the therapist allowing you to wallow in self pity so that you can get yourself out of a hole - it's a therapist's job to help you build the ladder to get yourself out, you know?  I don't know enough about your background situation to make assumptions about it but I do remember that I used to consider myself to be wallowing in self pity and over the years came to understand that I'd been badly abused and my 'self pity'  was more like an injury screaming 'fix me' and my wallowing was more down to emotional exhaustion, I think - I'd spent years bottling things up, distancing myself from my feelings and letting other people use me and abuse me as they liked and it's hard work!  I was tired.  I don't know if that's similar to your situation at all but - and please don't take this as a criticism - it read to me like you were being a bit too hard on yourself there?

Very well done on the 10lb weightloss as well xx

[Hopalong]

Tupp--There are better summaries (Google) but here is one for PA (maybe it's also called PAD, with D for "disorder")
http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/passive-aggressive-personality-disorder/overview.html

fwiw,
Hops

[Ales2]

Hi Thanks to both of you for responses.

PAD is Passive Aggressive Disorder - which is chronic and occurs over longer periods of time. Some psychs distinguish between PAD and PA behavior, because some people are passive some of the time, for example, when we cant deal with Ns anymore, we just give them the silent treatment, but we call it NC, the silent treatment is passive aggression in some instances. Rather than expressing ourselves, we just close down the communication. Anyway, PA can also be triggered by life events where helplessness can set in and people beging to sabotage themselves with tardiness, excuses and other means that are passive.

And, yes it most certainly is the therapists job to help you build the ladder out of the hole, show you where it is or suggest you construct one on your own. It saddens me that I was told by someone else, that changing myself sometimes changes the dynamic of the relationship. Many parents stop abusing their adult children when the realize they wont come back, which is where I am at now.

And, yes I was traumatized by my job, never got any validation from anyone with that difficulty, including the t, and I have been exhausted by the ordeal.

10 down 30 more to go.

[Twoapenny]

Hi Thanks to both of you for responses.

PAD is Passive Aggressive Disorder - which is chronic and occurs over longer periods of time. Some psychs distinguish between PAD and PA behavior, because some people are passive some of the time, for example, when we cant deal with Ns anymore, we just give them the silent treatment, but we call it NC, the silent treatment is passive aggression in some instances. Rather than expressing ourselves, we just close down the communication. Anyway, PA can also be triggered by life events where helplessness can set in and people beging to sabotage themselves with tardiness, excuses and other means that are passive.

And, yes it most certainly is the therapists job to help you build the ladder out of the hole, show you where it is or suggest you construct one on your own. It saddens me that I was told by someone else, that changing myself sometimes changes the dynamic of the relationship. Many parents stop abusing their adult children when the realize they wont come back, which is where I am at now.

And, yes I was traumatized by my job, never got any validation from anyone with that difficulty, including the t, and I have been exhausted by the ordeal.

10 down 30 more to go.

Ah Ales, well I'm glad you're at a point where you can look back and see things from a different perspective but you are right, sometimes those new realisations are painful and difficult to manage.  I've had something a little similar recently in realising that some of my friends weren't what I wanted them to be, I've been through a bit of a down time because of it (feeling unlikeable, why me, what did I do wrong, all that sort of stuff).  Have got over the hump again now but it is such hard going when you're in it, you've done so well and it's brilliant that you've lost weight at the same time.  Has the weight loss helped you feel better in a physical way?  I'm always amazed at the difference half a stone in either direction can make to the way I feel about myself

[Meh]

We all have some kind of problematic weirdness to our personalities. I don't think procrastinating is the same as passive aggressive. To me passive aggressive is trying to be a secretive jerk.

[Ales2]

Hi - yes, the weightloss has helped. I also see how many people I trust and value try to quickly tell me it cant be done or the number I am aiming for is too thin (i weighed that just five years ago, its a very reasonable number for me) or how I can be on a diet and the other person insists on over ordering expecting me to share. Ugh.   Happened last night and I did not assert myself. Friend was late, we get to movie theater at 7:20 for 7:30 movie and had to decide between dinner or movie (instead of her being on time and showing up at 6 to get dinner then movie.) Foolishly, I said dinner because if we see the movie the restaurants will close early and its too late to eat. Dinner would have been fine had I not over ordered.  Oh, well, another lesson learned.

And yes, greenbean, "secretive jerk" is it completely!  The issue with procrastination and other excuse type behaviors (traffic was bad, bus was late, no milk at the store) is its hard to see if its truthful or a manipulation. Most people are in-your-face jerks, which at least you can deal with at the time.