LIES AND THE LYING LIARS WHO TELL THEM

[lighter]

I've been reading Al Franken's LIES and the LYING LIARS WHO TELL THEM.

Of course it was written in 2003, but you recognize pd tactics.

So familiar.

I find myself wishing the phenomenon was better understood, and recognized universally.

I wish we could come up with..... 
some great catch phrase to concisely pinpoint the circumstances of being pd'd by a pd.....

like.....

"Getting Munsoned," from the movie KINGPIN.  That phrase really said what it needed to say.

::nodding::

I don't know......

There are so many levels of getting pd'd.....

The scorpion and the frog types, who destroy themselves along with their little paddling prey, often with children on board, vs the political animals who do anything to get ahead. 

One catch phrase couldn't possibly cover them all.

Lighter

[Izzy_*now*]

hi lighter,

I have a feeling I would agree with you but I don't know what pd'd means.

I just know that so much of what we see as our current surrounding and occurrences are lies.

xx
Iz

[Meh]

Sigh, that book title rings a bell though I don't think I ever read it. Read a few about George Bush's supposed personal ties with all the 911 stuff and it boils down to personal interest taking a precedent over their professional responsibility.

Was thinking along the same lines this evening about the two different faces of what retail business show to customers and the second face that is on the back of the head. Consumerism has become a cliché buzz word of sort. People do require things but consumerism is a massive machine that is somewhat odd. I find that the upper level staff in some ways seem to think their consumers or the people beneath them are total idiots that are controllable and I guess maybe human consuming behavior is controlled...there is just some bit of it that is arrogance though.

hum not sure I have a point really...only that there frequently is something else going on beneath the surface

[sKePTiKal]

Green Bean, did you see the little news blip about the couple (Chinese) that were out Christmas shopping?

After about 5-6 hours and she wasn't done yet, he told her "you don't need any more shoes"... and jumped from a 7th floor catwalk, killing himself. I thought it was a tad "extreme", even for someone who hates those kinds of shopping "sprees". But I do know how he feels. Hubs will go without food, water, despite all my pathetic "hints" that I'm about to go face first into the floor from exhaustion... just to see what is in that department or the next aisle. About the only way I can get his attention is threaten to make a scene, which embarasses him. 3 hours is his minimum, to feel satisfied that he's been out "hunting & gathering".

When I go shopping: it's one store - I know what I'm looking for; select it - and then maybe I'll glance around at other stuff, but I'm essentially "outta there". I guess it's kinda claustrophobia, because retailers cram so much stuff so close together -- there's no room for people, and when people are added to that environment, they tend to act like caged animals. My favorite places are the ones with room to pull hangers off racks, and flip garments around... the sales people still walk up and offer to stack things up in the changing rooms or at the checkout, so your hands are free.

Back on topic:

Lighter, there are so many different kinds of lies and less & less social disapproval for indulging in them. Right down to incorrect word usage, making up words, to kind of imply one thing - until called on it - then claiming one meant another thing. Drives me NUTZ. I can really understand how people can give up and accept that no one ever knows what the truth is anymore - which leads to apathy - and then to self-exile; just so they don't have to deal with the cognitive dissonance.

[lighter]

 
I wish we could stop prosecuting pot smokers, and get busy prosecuting people who lie under oath, and in legal documents.  Esp those leveraging children in civil suits, and creating trauma/harm.

Pot smokers could do community service, and the lying liars could do jail time for choking the justice system, paying steep fines to pay the expenses of prosecuting them.

Yes, then they;d be choking up the civil and criminal justice systems, but hey.....

Would it make a difference?  

I'm thinking YES.

Eventually.


Lighter

[Hopalong]

Hey Izz--I think by "PD" Lighter means people with a "personality disorder"--such as Narcissistic PD, Borderline PD, the others... Lighter can confirm...

I loved Al Franken's title. It is so depressing but also refreshing.

To me, Malala is the next Mandela. Telling truth to power.

PR, I hate shopping too. Though on a not-busy afternoon at a Goodwill, I do okay. All pretensions are absent, there.

Hops

[lighter]

Hey Izz--I think by "PD" Lighter means people with a "personality disorder"--such as Narcissistic PD, Borderline PD, the others... Lighter can confirm...


Hops

Yup, yup, yup, Hops....

getting pd'd means getting run over by pd tactics.

I would include antisocial pd on the above list. 

Sorry about the late response, Izz.

Lighter

[mudpuppy]

Al Franken's LIES and the LYING LIARS WHO TELL THEM.

Interesting title for a guy who won his Senate seat through voter fraud.
http://patdollard.com/2012/08/how-felons-put-al-franken-in-the-senate/
Al Franken seems to suffer from irony poor blood.

[Hopalong]

Here's an interesting article on the book's author:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/03/dollard200703

Hops

[Meh]

... I can really understand how people can give up and accept that no one ever knows what the truth is anymore - which leads to apathy - and then to self-exile; just so they don't have to deal with the cognitive dissonance.

Hah  LOL,   now ain't that the truth  

[mudpuppy]

Attacking the messenger in lieu of engaging his argument is generally known as an ad hominem logical fallacy.

I'd like to revise and extend my remarks; After reading a couple more pages that story wasn't quite the hit piece it seemed it was going to be. Hardly flattering and not without bias but what I read was relatively straight forward as those things go. I should have given Hops the benefit of the doubt.

mud

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Mud.

hugs
Hops

[mudpuppy]

You're welcome, Hops.

On the other hand my point stands that a sanctimonious creep, who the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates stole an election from the people of the state he supposedly represents, is not only a lying liar who tells lies, he's worse than most for having the gall to write a book excoriating others for much less momentous lies than his.

mud

[Hopalong]

I think the truth is, Mud, that you spend time in the right-wing echo chamber (Fox News et al) and I spend time in the left-wing echo chamber (Salon.com et al).

I lack the expertise to re-litigate or do original investigation that "proves" my point of view. And I believe you lack it too.

We are a classic example of the divide, and it's sad.

I am not certain that I'm right, nor am I certain that you're wrong.

I imagine the truth is elsewhere, and not with us.
And I also imagine that you could completely wear me out in a political debate, and I would lose.

But it doesn't mean that in yielding to the power of greater certainty I would be converted.
It just doesn't work.

If you're curious about a rebuttal -- here is one, with a lot of links to evidence. FWIW.
I don't know if the picture this paints is an ultimate answer. I know that because I am so
liberal, and generally find my thoughts more aligned with this source than with Fox News
it seems more true and more reasoned to me. (And it's snarky, which doesn't bring people
into harmony.)

Best I can do, and it's not good enough. I just lack the commitment to the fight.
And don't want to have it on VESMB anyway. Will yank too much energy away from
the personal voicelessness stuff that I come here to engage...

Agnostically, and always glad you're my brother Mud...

Hops

[Hopalong]

Thanks, TT.
Didn't need a referee as in my experience Mud and I always revert to mutual respect,
despite our different points of view.

One of the reasons I so value him. He is a deeply good person.

I'm okay with lack of resolution--it can't be forced.

love
Hops