Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
The A-I of Surviving N Mothers
ann3:
Yikes, Ales2!! That scenario could have ended badly for you, Thank Goodness the cops understood. Seems that No Contact is the way to go with your NM. Maybe, perhaps, consult with an Elder Care lawyer so that you know how to protect yourself from now on? The Elder Care lawyer can instruct you what to do & what not to do.
Regarding Forgiveness, IMO, it's not a clear cut subject. Based on my readings & experience, I wonder if the stuff written by Dyer & Meyer (and many others who write on this topic) is geared towards forgiving Ns? Based on my experience, applying the "Forgiveness" literature to Ns can be dangerous because the Ns don't/can't comprehend the forgiveness being offered & instead view it as us opening the door to them, so that they can resume their N behavior. Maybe it's that Ns view forgiveness as the removal of the boundaries we've finally been able to build & they think things will go back to what they were, as they resume being their usual N selves? IDK.
I have found that when one is still dealing with and in contact with an N, its OK to forgive them in our hearts and pray for them, but to protect ourselves & keep up the boundaries when dealing with them in real life. So, this means that we could both forgive the N and also have LC or NC.
Tup sums this up really nicely:
--- Quote ---I think a part of me was still hoping that she'd have changed and that she'd have realised what she lost and amended her ways. I now understand that she can't change her behaviour any more than I can change the colour of my eyes. It is what she does and always has been.
I was listening to a nice meditation about forgiveness; they were talking about it not meaning that you have to be in contact with the person or condone what they had done but more that you accept it happened and try not to let it poison your life. I think forgiveness is easier said than done
--- End quote ---
Based on what I've read, and as Tupp mentions, one of the major themes in Forgiveness is Poison: we should not let our anger (or negative feelings) poison us. So, maybe one of the most helpful aspects of Forgiveness is to put the bad stuff behind us, so that we can live in the present & not feel like our anger drags us down & interferes with our daily living. I guess this is what "letting go" & "detaching" means.
Ales2:
--- Quote ---Yikes, Ales2!! That scenario could have ended badly for you, Thank Goodness the cops understood. Seems that No Contact is the way to go with your NM. Maybe, perhaps, consult with an Elder Care lawyer so that you know how to protect yourself from now on? The Elder Care lawyer can instruct you what to do & what not to do.
--- End quote ---
Only a moderate chance of going bad. When they came there was no probable cause, i.e police have to see something to arrest me, and just a report (which never materialized) would not be enough, they would have to investigate charges before an arrest. From what I have now learned, with Elder Abuse claims, I cannot be alone with her in her home or a hospital without a neutral third party to check me in and out. Im prepared so I can;t be lured again into a situation where she can make false claims. Ive also heard to not talk to her on the phone anymore, just send a letter, but poilte ones obviously. SHe is the one who makes hostile verbal threats not me.
--- Quote ---Regarding Forgiveness, IMO, it's not a clear cut subject. Based on my readings & experience, I wonder if the stuff written by Dyer & Meyer (and many others who write on this topic) is geared towards forgiving Ns? Based on my experience, applying the "Forgiveness" literature to Ns can be dangerous because the Ns don't/can't comprehend the forgiveness being offered & instead view it as us opening the door to them, so that they can resume their N behavior. Maybe it's that Ns view forgiveness as the removal of the boundaries we've finally been able to build & they think things will go back to what they were, as they resume being their usual N selves? IDK.
--- End quote ---
Everything you have said here is true. You made good points about forgiveness/boundaries/Nism being more dangerous than other situations. Meyer was sexually abused by her father and he groomed her for the abuse verbally. She is very aware of emotional abuse she experienced and have to say she won me over with her book and her intelligence on the matter. Have to say though, she did not confront her father until she was late 40s early 50s and by then she was financially successful, married, with 4 kids. She had a very strong financial and emotional support system before she confronted him and forgave him. Im in a much more vulnerable position than she is - I am by myself. The only one encouraging me are other DONM people and places like this board. No husband, no financial security.
Thanks so much for your post, I am working on the detachment. Ive more than let go, but oddly, she is the one who always circles back around. I was LC, no visits, no calls, and only send cards on holidays, but I will dial that back further to NC. She came to visit me, my mistake was allowing it.
ann3:
Hi Ales,
I didn't mean to sound critical of you. It's just that your NM sounds really manipulative and sounds like she may have tried to maneuver you into a position. Elder Care Abuse allegations can be murky, especially among family members, so it's good you've got the "Do's & Don'ts".
I like Joyce Meyers, she's got a lot of spunk. I've read about & heard her discuss her abuse. She's very inspirational.
I hear what you're saying about lacking financial and emotional support systems, but you sound strong, clear headed and intelligent.
Yeah, I think forgiving Ns really boils down to Detachment plus the 5 Stages of Grief. If the Ns were "normal" people, we could do "Forgiveness", but Ns are not "normal", so they don't understand "Forgiveness" & therefore, it's dangerous for us to "Forgive" the N.
I think forgiving an N is more like us going thru the 5 Stages of Grief, with the 5th Stage being Detachment: we accept that this person is an N and therefore, we know we must detach.
Ales2:
Hi Ann3 - No, you were not being critical at all - you were giving me good thoughts and suggestions which I appreciate. Speaking with an elder abuse lawyer is very good suggestion, I did not consult with one, but called Adult Protective Services and got information from a case worker there. It is very murky for sure. Just by making the accusation, weirdly I am actually free from dealing with any of her financial or medical dealings. Since the trust is gone, she will have to rely on my brother, I will not be able to help with anything which is fine by me. For example, when she accused me of theft years ago, I quickly returned my house keys (the house I grew up in basically. I still have a room there with a closet of old toys and school books and papers) and her response was "I bet you made an extra set". LOL.
Her level of manipulation is astounding... but I am wise to the game which angers her because I can't be used any more.
Thanks for your post and compliments, I hope I get past this nonsense soon!
Twoapenny:
--- Quote from: Ales2 on March 03, 2016, 11:07:03 PM ---Hi Ann3 - No, you were not being critical at all - you were giving me good thoughts and suggestions which I appreciate. Speaking with an elder abuse lawyer is very good suggestion, I did not consult with one, but called Adult Protective Services and got information from a case worker there. It is very murky for sure. Just by making the accusation, weirdly I am actually free from dealing with any of her financial or medical dealings. Since the trust is gone, she will have to rely on my brother, I will not be able to help with anything which is fine by me. For example, when she accused me of theft years ago, I quickly returned my house keys (the house I grew up in basically. I still have a room there with a closet of old toys and school books and papers) and her response was "I bet you made an extra set". LOL.
Her level of manipulation is astounding... but I am wise to the game which angers her because I can't be used any more.
Thanks for your post and compliments, I hope I get past this nonsense soon!
--- End quote ---
Whenever I come on here I'm always amazed at the similarities in the things people experience and I read so many things where I think "wow, they're describing my mum!". I think not having to deal with her affairs will be a blessing; I know as my mother's getting older she's making my sister's life a misery (the only one of five kids who has anything to do with either parent); her behaviour just seems to increase as time passes (or maybe we become more aware of it; I don't know?). It is, as you say, nonsensical stuff to deal with and I have been reminded of how ridiculous it is as I'm in contact with my younger sister after a ten year period of not speaking. She has told me about some of the family 'events' she has attended and all I can say is I think they should close down the colleges for psychologists in the UK and send those wishing to learn about human behaviour to live with some of my relatives instead :)
On the subject of forgiveness it is something I have really struggled with for years now. I've got to a point where I think what I would like is to be able to look back at the things that have happened and to not have a lot of negative feeling attached to it; for them to just be memories and not have emotional reactions to them. To me that would be the best case scenario and I will feel like I've been able to forgive or let go of it all. I don't feel a need for my mum to be involved in or attached to this at all (and I'm nowhere near this with my step-dad, just thinking about him still makes me feel sick) but I'm thinking of it as something I want for me. I'm kind of getting there. It's my son's birthday tomorrow and that's usually quite triggering; my mum usually flares up around birthdays and Christmas so I'm usually on high alert, I get upset that there's no family to celebrate the day with him and I get angry when I think about his birthdays when he was little that all became a focus on her with some drama or other going on. But this year that's been much, much reduced; a few moments but on the whole pretty good. I only say all this Ales because it sounds to me like you're almost there; I think sometimes we need one last 'event' to really hammer home okay, this is it, it's not going to be any different, time to close that door. I think you're doing great :) x
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