To Tell Or Not To Tell?

[sKePTiKal]

The spirit of adventure is setting in, Tupps! Deliberately seeking out a change of scenery, personalities, making room for "new" everything... the energy of potential... tends to lift our spirits, even when the inevitable "life stuff" continues to happen - the chores, the setting up new accounts for utilities, etc.

Time to have some FUN, eh?

[Twoapenny]

The spirit of adventure is setting in, Tupps! Deliberately seeking out a change of scenery, personalities, making room for "new" everything... the energy of potential... tends to lift our spirits, even when the inevitable "life stuff" continues to happen - the chores, the setting up new accounts for utilities, etc.

Time to have some FUN, eh?

Oh Skep, I agree with you so completely, I'm decorating today which I find mind numbingly dull, but I keep imagining myself in a little flat five minutes from the sea, going out to a cafe and chit chatting to new people; what I do now is scan wherever I'm going before I enter because there are so many people I try and avoid around here that I feel a bit like a fugitive trying to avoid being spotted!  The tedious stuff just doesn't seem so tedious when it's in between fun, exciting, uplifting stuff, does it, cooking dinner after a lovely day out somewhere is far less of a chore than cooking dinner after a day spent doing housework and clearing out cupboards.  I really want to go out for food tonight as it's been such a boring day but it's soooooo cold here at the moment that I don't want to leave the house.  Here's to moving forward and moving on xx

[JustKathy]

Hi Tupp!

I haven't been here in a while, and just popped in today to see what everyone was up to. Your post really grabbed me because I pulled a vanishing act myself five years ago. I didn't tell a single person where I was going. My husband accepted a relocation out of state, and we simply took off and returned to Los Angeles after five years in Arizona. The only people who knew about it were friends and co-workers who did not know my parents.

Now for the bad news. They found me within three months. As soon as co-father called the old house and found the phone had been disconnected, they immediately assumed we had move. Even though a disconnected phone number is no indication of a move, I was a "vindictive monster," and had surely taken off just to anger N-mother. I was already NC with her, but she knew where I lived and was still keeping tabs on me and hounding me with the help of my Co-Father. There was no way she was going to let me disappear.

The way they found me still makes my blood boil. I assumed they paid one of those online tracking services, but I did an extensive search on my own name and found nothing. We turned our previous home into a rental rather than selling it, so there were no records of any sale or move. It took several months before the lightbulb went off. Something so simple, it was right in front of my face.

Years earlier my Co-Father had given me a gift subscription to Los Angeles Magazine .... something he got a discount on from work. He bought subscriptions for everyone in the family. At some point, I had called the magazine and had it placed in my name as I didn't want him paying for it any longer, then paid for the renewals myself. When I moved, I sent them a change of address, but since I was now back in L.A., didn't want the magazine any longer so let the subscription lapse without renewal. But the magazine kept coming. It didn't strike me as odd at the time since magazines will often send complimentary issues to suck you back in, but then I looked at the address label and saw it had a new renewal date on it that was a full year out. I called the magazine and asked why it had been renewed, and they told me it had been paid for as a gift, and gave me co-Father's name as the gift giver. Sneaky bastard called the magazine and told them he wanted to buy me a gift subscription, and they handed him my address in exchange for the $12 cost of a subscription. I was livid. I screamed until I was blue in the face .... told the CS rep that they had released my private address against my will and to cancel immediately, which they did. Two months later, the magazine started coming again. I called back, and sure enough, he had phoned in yet another renewal. This time I told them they had released my address to a dangerous stalker and that I would be suing them. A supervisor came on the line and told me they would make a notation to not accept any more gift subscriptions in my name. I'm still mortified by this. In the digital age, magazines and newspapers have become so desperate for subscriptions that they will give out your address to anyone willing to give them money.

So, BIG lesson learned. Don't give forwarding addresses to any entity that isn't absolutely necessary. If you have any magazine subscriptions, cancel them before you go. I'm still in shock that they were able to get my address that way. What if it really had been a stalker with intent to harm me? Horrifying!

Kathy

[Twoapenny]

Hi Tupp!

I haven't been here in a while, and just popped in today to see what everyone was up to. Your post really grabbed me because I pulled a vanishing act myself five years ago. I didn't tell a single person where I was going. My husband accepted a relocation out of state, and we simply took off and returned to Los Angeles after five years in Arizona. The only people who knew about it were friends and co-workers who did not know my parents.

Now for the bad news. They found me within three months. As soon as co-father called the old house and found the phone had been disconnected, they immediately assumed we had move. Even though a disconnected phone number is no indication of a move, I was a "vindictive monster," and had surely taken off just to anger N-mother. I was already NC with her, but she knew where I lived and was still keeping tabs on me and hounding me with the help of my Co-Father. There was no way she was going to let me disappear.

The way they found me still makes my blood boil. I assumed they paid one of those online tracking services, but I did an extensive search on my own name and found nothing. We turned our previous home into a rental rather than selling it, so there were no records of any sale or move. It took several months before the lightbulb went off. Something so simple, it was right in front of my face.

Years earlier my Co-Father had given me a gift subscription to Los Angeles Magazine .... something he got a discount on from work. He bought subscriptions for everyone in the family. At some point, I had called the magazine and had it placed in my name as I didn't want him paying for it any longer, then paid for the renewals myself. When I moved, I sent them a change of address, but since I was now back in L.A., didn't want the magazine any longer so let the subscription lapse without renewal. But the magazine kept coming. It didn't strike me as odd at the time since magazines will often send complimentary issues to suck you back in, but then I looked at the address label and saw it had a new renewal date on it that was a full year out. I called the magazine and asked why it had been renewed, and they told me it had been paid for as a gift, and gave me co-Father's name as the gift giver. Sneaky bastard called the magazine and told them he wanted to buy me a gift subscription, and they handed him my address in exchange for the $12 cost of a subscription. I was livid. I screamed until I was blue in the face .... told the CS rep that they had released my private address against my will and to cancel immediately, which they did. Two months later, the magazine started coming again. I called back, and sure enough, he had phoned in yet another renewal. This time I told them they had released my address to a dangerous stalker and that I would be suing them. A supervisor came on the line and told me they would make a notation to not accept any more gift subscriptions in my name. I'm still mortified by this. In the digital age, magazines and newspapers have become so desperate for subscriptions that they will give out your address to anyone willing to give them money.

So, BIG lesson learned. Don't give forwarding addresses to any entity that isn't absolutely necessary. If you have any magazine subscriptions, cancel them before you go. I'm still in shock that they were able to get my address that way. What if it really had been a stalker with intent to harm me? Horrifying!

Kathy

Hi Kathy!  It's so good to see you and I remember when you were talking about making your big escape.  I'm so glad you got away and so sorry they found you again and yes, I could have written that story myself, my mum has done things like that numerous times.  Because she's my mum, she knows my personal information, obviously, so there have been occasions where she's just phoned up and pretended to be me.  It is scary how easy it is to do this sort of thing.  Like you, I don't intend on telling anyone at all where we're going (in fact I've already started laying the cover story with my hairdresser, who I probably won't see again now before we leave, so I told her I'm waiting to hear on a job offer abroad and even made that vague).  I don't really have an online presence so I don't think that will be an issue.  No subscriptions or anything like that, there are some places that I will need to give a change of address to but I will write to them at the same time explaining that they mustn't give the address out over the phone under any circumstances as we're avoiding a domestic abuse situation.  I have found over the years that you have to use 'buzz words' for people to understand it's serious (as you found out by describing them as stalkers) so I always describe it now as domestic abuse and disability hate crime and that seems to make things stick in their heads.

Despite all of that, I know that it's quite likely she'll just phone the police and tell them I've gone on the run with my son, that no-one knows where we are and that they're worried for his safety (she's done this before).  I've got all the info of what she's done written up so if they turn up on the doorstep I can just hand them that and hopefully that will be the end of it.  But I think there's only so much you can do, isn't there, and I made the decision not to keep letting them dictate my decisions and affect the way I live my life.

It's so good to see you back and I hope you'll be able to post more and fill us in on your adventures!  Hopefully things have been good for you and even though they know where you are they haven't been bothering you too much.  It still makes me feel so sad that people can hurt each other so badly and call it love, there is something wrong with the wiring somewhere along the line, I think! xx

[Hopalong]

Kathy,
It's great to hear from you. And remembering how hunted and haunted you felt is still very vivid to me. I hope they've receded into your rear-view mirror by now. Are you doing well? Is life feeling saner and freer or are they still pursuing?

Tupp, I think Kathy's story makes me want to repeat a suggestion. I totally understood why you feel uneasy around authorities. But wouldn't it be good to have anything your mother tries (in terms of false reports that could result in your being officially searched for) defused instantly? To know you left that assertive self-protection in your wake?

If talking to cops is anxiety producing, I wonder if you could write up a very simple statement like I was dreaming up, have it NOTARIZED (say, at a bank or something)...and simply walk in on your way out of town and hand-deliver it to the desk sergeant. You wouldn't have to stay around and answer questions or anything like that. (And whoever notarized your document for you could, if necessary, affirm that you were not irrational, had no pistol in your ribs, etc.)

Just a thought and perhaps not a useful one. I am probably fixating on this only because I have been "bullied by proxy" (via Nbrother) too...and think it's always good to step up and be on your own side. Authorities exist to protect YOU too. After all the sleazy and completely false slandering accusations my brother made about me (about my mother, but similar in some ways to what you went through about your care of your son)... the court, the judge, the attorneys wound up proving to me that when it comes to harrassment and abuse, sometimes people in the system actually do like to stop bullies.

love
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Kathy,
It's great to hear from you. And remembering how hunted and haunted you felt is still very vivid to me. I hope they've receded into your rear-view mirror by now. Are you doing well? Is life feeling saner and freer or are they still pursuing?

Tupp, I think Kathy's story makes me want to repeat a suggestion. I totally understood why you feel uneasy around authorities. But wouldn't it be good to have anything your mother tries (in terms of false reports that could result in your being officially searched for) defused instantly? To know you left that assertive self-protection in your wake?

If talking to cops is anxiety producing, I wonder if you could write up a very simple statement like I was dreaming up, have it NOTARIZED (say, at a bank or something)...and simply walk in on your way out of town and hand-deliver it to the desk sergeant. You wouldn't have to stay around and answer questions or anything like that. (And whoever notarized your document for you could, if necessary, affirm that you were not irrational, had no pistol in your ribs, etc.)

Just a thought and perhaps not a useful one. I am probably fixating on this only because I have been "bullied by proxy" (via Nbrother) too...and think it's always good to step up and be on your own side. Authorities exist to protect YOU too. After all the sleazy and completely false slandering accusations my brother made about me (about my mother, but similar in some ways to what you went through about your care of your son)... the court, the judge, the attorneys wound up proving to me that when it comes to harrassment and abuse, sometimes people in the system actually do like to stop bullies.

love
Hops

It is a good idea Hops and in theory it would be the right thing to do but unfortunately it's the authorities - police, social services, doctors etc - who have caused the problems in the past, including social workers fabricating reports to bring child protection action against me and two police officers who lied to protect my step-dad when I reported historic abuse a few years ago (he and my mum both used to work for social services).  There's a lot of corruption in the UK and unfortunately a lot of public sector workers are worse than criminals.  There's no accountability and no support to fight these agencies if they bring false action against you.  I've contacted literally dozens of agencies over the years and given them all the information about my mum and no-one even bothers to read it, it just gets filed and ignored the next time she does it and then they work very hard to cover it all up again.  It's really just pot luck who you get on the day as to whether they'll do their job properly or not.  So whilst it ought to be the right thing to do I think contacting them myself before anything happens will just feed into their 'she's mentally disturbed, paranoid and always causing trouble for her family' which is what they've always labelled me as in the past.  On a slightly different note I'm also trying to let go of my need to control the situation at all times and I sort of feel (I know this will sound a bit daft) that if I open up the conversation about it I'm sort of bringing it all back to life again and it's like I'm creating it, if that makes sense?  Plus, depending on who is dealing with it, what's happened before is that whoever I've spoken to has contacted my mum to ask if it's true.  If that happens it might enflame a situation that might not have arisen - she might have given up on it all now, she's quite busy harassing my sister at the minute so she might be content with that, it's all those whatifs again.  It's one of those things that, when I start to think about it, gives rise to so many different possibilities that I can see myself just running around tying myself in knots trying to cover all the angles.  So I'm just trying to focus on doing what I want to do, and I'm trying to do that thing of doing what you want more of and ignoring what you don't want.  If she causes problems I'll deal with them as they come up and if she doesn't then yay!!  I do appreciate you bringing it up, it is a good idea in theory, it's just experience has taught me you can't even trust coppers here - it's a crazy world that we live in x

[JustKathy]

Hi Hops. Thanks for the warm welcome back, all of you. I don't want to hijack someone else's thread, but I did come back here because it was "that time of year." Co-F continues to stalk me, going on three years after NM died. There have been some weird and unexpected things happen to my family in the wake of her death, but I'll write about that in another thread. Seems the hold they have on co-family members sticks for life.

Anyway, Tupp, you're right that there's only so much you can do. No matter how carefully you plan, she'll look for you, and now that we have the Internet, finding someone is a a whole lost easier (sometimes TOO easy). You've also got a particularly difficult situation with the whole child abuse accusation mess from your NM. One thing is certain about N-mothers, they will NOT be ignored, and the more distance you try to create, the more enraged they become, which can lead to a very aggressive pursuit. It sounds like you're doing all the right things in preparing for this, but she WILL try something. I had no idea that social services in the UK was so corrupt. I'm just so sorry to hear that. Those are the people who should be protecting you, not the other way around.

This is a very drastic option, but if she starts making those accusations again, would leaving the UK altogether be an option? It's not something that everyone can do, but a lot of geographic distance will usually end it once and for all. I really hope she remains preoccupied with your sister and doesn't start anything up, but a vanishing act angers them like nothing else. Losing control is their worst nightmare, and she will most likely try to punish you for it. 

[Hopalong]

(Thanks, Kathy. Very interested in your updated story and I'll catch it on your new thread.)

Tupp, I hear you now. That was a compelling and crystal clear narrative about how you've experienced the system's response to you. And that maddening consulting with your mother bit. Reminds me of once (very minor scale example) I had a complaint about a minister but had NOT said so, simply emailed the office to ask what email is the right one to use if a congregant had a QUESTION about the ministry. They immediately CC'd him on the email trail so that totally shut me down.

Thanks for explaining it in such detail and sorry I didn't fully accept your boundary with the cops the first time you explained it!

All-knowing, all-seeing, more like all-opinionated (sorry!)--

love
Hops

[ann3]

Hi Kathy,
Good to hear from you.  Your insights on Ns, especially NMs & Co-Fs, are invaluable.

Quite an "adventure" you've had.  The Magazine Gift Subscription sounds like a plot point in an Alfred Hitchcock movie!!  Seems like there's nothing these Ns won't try to do to get what they want.

Welcome back

[Twoapenny]

Hi Hops. Thanks for the warm welcome back, all of you. I don't want to hijack someone else's thread, but I did come back here because it was "that time of year." Co-F continues to stalk me, going on three years after NM died. There have been some weird and unexpected things happen to my family in the wake of her death, but I'll write about that in another thread. Seems the hold they have on co-family members sticks for life.

Anyway, Tupp, you're right that there's only so much you can do. No matter how carefully you plan, she'll look for you, and now that we have the Internet, finding someone is a a whole lost easier (sometimes TOO easy). You've also got a particularly difficult situation with the whole child abuse accusation mess from your NM. One thing is certain about N-mothers, they will NOT be ignored, and the more distance you try to create, the more enraged they become, which can lead to a very aggressive pursuit. It sounds like you're doing all the right things in preparing for this, but she WILL try something. I had no idea that social services in the UK was so corrupt. I'm just so sorry to hear that. Those are the people who should be protecting you, not the other way around.

This is a very drastic option, but if she starts making those accusations again, would leaving the UK altogether be an option? It's not something that everyone can do, but a lot of geographic distance will usually end it once and for all. I really hope she remains preoccupied with your sister and doesn't start anything up, but a vanishing act angers them like nothing else. Losing control is their worst nightmare, and she will most likely try to punish you for it. 

Sorry to hear that you didn't escape completely, Kathy and yes, you are right, she will be hopping up and down when she finds out we've gone and you're right about the internet.  Social services aren't all bad all the time, it depends who you get on the day really but I've had my fingers burnt more than once so I prefer just to keep my distance if at all possible.  Having said that, I'm not the novice I was when this all happened before and I can see with hindsight how the situation grew and mushroomed because I didn't know what was going on so I do feel more confident about dealing with it quickly and effectively this time (not least because I've got a two hundred page document that details all the harassment, early abuse and the various problems with agencies over the years and I find in the UK all the extra paperwork tends to put people off so waving that at someone will probably help).

As for moving abroad, yes!  That's my ultimate dream.  The sticking point has been schooling for my son as he has a lot of health problems so finding a job/place to live/school/medical care overseas has just been too much of a headache but a few more years he will be too old for school so it then becomes an easier situation to manage.  We've bought our campervan (phase one of the plan), moving away from Madam Scary is phase two, let the dust settle a bit there and then I'll be working on son's independence as much as possible as well as trying as many ways of working here as possible in order to have a good range of skills overseas.  Maybe three, four years?  It's a very horrible thing to say as well but I do hear on the grapevine that my mum's health isn't good and she spends a lot of time in and out of hospital now so it may well be that she ceases to be a problem permanently.  It always makes me feel really sad when I think about my mum passing, just because it feels like it will be such a relief and that feels so wrong to feel about your own mum   Fortunately I will not have any problems with other family once she's passed as she seems to be rather unique.

Thanks for all input from everybody, I really do appreciate it and it helps me to think about what I'm doing and where I am at the moment xx

[Twoapenny]

(Thanks, Kathy. Very interested in your updated story and I'll catch it on your new thread.)

Tupp, I hear you now. That was a compelling and crystal clear narrative about how you've experienced the system's response to you. And that maddening consulting with your mother bit. Reminds me of once (very minor scale example) I had a complaint about a minister but had NOT said so, simply emailed the office to ask what email is the right one to use if a congregant had a QUESTION about the ministry. They immediately CC'd him on the email trail so that totally shut me down.

Thanks for explaining it in such detail and sorry I didn't fully accept your boundary with the cops the first time you explained it!

All-knowing, all-seeing, more like all-opinionated (sorry!)--

love
Hops

Hops, no need to apologise, I really appreciate all suggestions and thoughts on the matter and appreciate the time that everyone spends tapping away on keyboards to answer.  In an ideal world my son and I should be protected from the mad bint but unfortunately it just doesn't seem to happen that way here.  Saying that, mind you, disability hate crime wasn't a term that was being used when all this happened ten years ago so it may well be different now but I will wait and see if they come to me first.  And as for shutting you down with that email - it's a very unpleasant and sneaky way of dealing with things, isn't it, and has happened to me so many times.  Interestingly on a larger scale in the UK falsely accusing parents is a method of shutting them down and stopping them making a fuss about poor service and a lack of resources - very common here for parents of disabled children to be blamed for the child's problems and/or expected to jump through hoops to suit other people instead of putting their child first.  There are some horrible people around.

And you're not all opinionated at all!  Sound advice, just previous bad experiences have put me onto Path B xx