Author Topic: Orlando  (Read 2513 times)

Hopalong

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Orlando
« on: June 13, 2016, 09:43:28 PM »
I just got back from a beautiful event downtown. About 500 people, maybe more, gathered with kindness to share grief, support and resolve.

There was a wonderful women's chorus ("We are a gentle/angry, peaceful/loving people...and we are singing, singing for our lives..."--here if you've never heard it--https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5bcA8kvIAw) and speakers. GLBT folks, our A-A Vice Mayor and my neighbor the councilwoman, kids, churches (my minister was there holding our big Standing on the Side of Love sign), Islamic Society representatives. People were eloquent, loving, inspirational, broken and whole.

After the speakers and singing we took candles and walked the length of downtown to the federal building calling out "Equal Rights for All!", and waiters/waitresses came out and cheered and clapped, as did outdoor diners. Biggest vigil I've been to since Viet Nam.

It made the unspeakable more bearable and reminded me how much difference 3-D makes.

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Orlando
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2016, 02:44:28 AM »
Glad you were able to go along to that, Hopsie, we've had similar things organised here in the UK, another terrible tragedy to unfold and for people to get their heads around, so much love in the world and yet one act of destruction can affect so many lives.  Can only hope to change our own little bit of the world, I think, and be kind where possible and yes, actual contact with real people makes such a huge difference, comforting to those who have lost loved ones, what a terrible shame.

lighter

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Re: Orlando
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2016, 12:21:52 PM »
It was a terrible tragedy, Hops.  Everyone I spoke to in Paris wanted to know about "all the violence in the US", based on that story in the news. 

It was the same the last time I was in France,  when LA was set on fire, and everyone wanted to know about "all the violence in the US."  I was in Nice during that one. 

It was interesting to listen to the Europeans comment on President Obama's handling of the situation, and his refusal to label terrorism as "Muslim Terrorism."  Our tour guide paraphrased someone in the news when he said that Obama using the word "Muslim terrorism" would be like saying "Italian crime" when referring to "Mafia crime."  I don't think anyone would agree that "Italian crime" would be a good label. 

It's wonderful when people come together and do what they can to comfort and heal after a tragedy like this. 

Lighter


mudpuppy

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Re: Orlando
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2016, 03:09:50 PM »
The only difference is Italian law doesn't say homosexuals should be killed.
Sharia does.

lighter

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Re: Orlando
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2016, 03:46:11 PM »
Ah, and there you are Mud. 

Leviticus 20:13
13   "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.  They must be put to death.  Their blood will be on their own heads."

(NIV)

You don't want to know what happens to the daughters of priests who become prostitutes..... there's an actual method that must be employed to snuff out their lives. 

Spoiler.... it involves fire.  Exodus 22:18

Lighter

mudpuppy

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Re: Orlando
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2016, 05:00:09 PM »
Christ of course abrogated those laws several thousand years ago and the only Jewish state in the world is quite hospitable to homosexuals.

Which leaves us with sharia which obtains in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Yemen and other places and where homosexuals are routinely executed and/or flogged.
When they locate roving bands of orthodox Jews lighting up gay nightclubs and tossing homosexuals off buildings let us know.

lighter

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Re: Orlando
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2016, 12:59:24 AM »
I'm sorry Mud.  I don't believe everyone got that memo.  There are nuts in every group.  Just look around.

There are extremist Jewish people who attack innocent gays, but they aren't all Jewish people.  Honestly, I'm betting that most of the men committing these atrocities are conflicted about their homosexuality or are gay themselves.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/6-stabbed-jerusalem-gay-pride-march-article-1.2309506

 I'm open to be swayed if it makes sense to you.  Why is it a good idea to use the label "Muslim Terrorists?"

Lighter

mudpuppy

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Re: Orlando
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2016, 03:21:20 PM »
Quote
Why is it a good idea to use the label "Muslim Terrorists?"

Because approximately 99% of the terrorists in the world are muslim.
Even worse, some of the most repressive regimes in the world are the ones who fund the terrorists and and routinely execute and flog homosexuals, religious minorities and women. They do so under the rubric of islam and sharia.

A recent poll found 51% of American muslims in favor of instituting sharia here and the percentages are higher in Europe. Europe started out with our simplistic head in the sand approach to the problem and now some Euro countries are within hailing distance of muslim majorities, if demographic trends continue.
Islam is and always has been hostile to homosexuals, women, political freedoms like free speech, freedom of religion etc. Those are its core tenets, not some sick perversion of them.
If we can't acknowledge basic facts and call a problem by the name it has historically worn how can we resist it?

Ultra orthodox Jews constitute what percent of the world's population? .00001%?
Muslims constitute ~25% and they cling to an ideology that is by its very nature expansionist. Probably most of those muslims just want to live their lives and not bother anyone. But the fact those majorities fail to rein in the radicals and in poll after poll, whether here or in the ME, demonstrate majority sympathy or acquiescence for most of the action of the radicals indicates we, the West, are facing, as we have for 1400 years, an ideology that is as aggressive, expansionist and intolerant of Western ideals like political and religious freedom as fascism and communism were/are. Let's not forget it was only Charles Martel who prevented the overrunning of Europe by the Moors from the South only a hundred years after islam was founded and it was only King Sobieski who prevented its overrunning from the east almost 1000 year later at the gates of Vienna.
 It has never reformed and has never given up. The only times it has been relatively quiescent have been when someone put their boot on its throat after being attacked.

Even the freest majority muslim nations like Indonesia, Malaysia have quite recent histories of genocides and dictators and continuing intolerance and rampant repression of non muslim minorities that we in the West would consider barbaric if they happened here.

Japan and Germany were two small countries that managed to create a colossal war over the entire globe that the rest of the world could very easily have lost. They had ~1.5% of the world population. Islam spreads and influences things much more gradually and effectively and is therefore harder to resist. But its aim is not significantly different. The only real difference is instead of calling it a Reich they call it a Caliphate.
No thanks.

mud


Hopalong

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Re: Orlando
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2016, 04:51:41 PM »
Homophobia (internalized or not) may have played as much of a role as jihadist propaganda in the Orlando crime.

I didn't mention the vigil to bring up politics or religion, which never seem to heal these days. Rather, I was grateful for a loving gathering that seemed healing for everyone there.

It comforted me.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Orlando
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2016, 09:30:06 PM »
I'm glad you were comforted, Hops.
Light

ann3

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Re: Orlando
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2016, 09:46:51 PM »
Glad you had this link so handy:http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/6-stabbed-jerusalem-gay-pride-march-article-1.2309506
Thanks for posting! :roll:

Quote
Everyone I spoke to in Paris wanted to know about "all the violence in the US", based on that story in the news. 

It was the same the last time I was in France,  when LA was set on fire, and everyone wanted to know about "all the violence in the US."  I was in Nice during that one. 

Everyone?  In both Paris & Nice?  Ah bon?  I used to live in both Paris & Nice & still visit frequently, so I find your experience odd.  I guess it depends on to whom one speaks.

lighter

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Re: Orlando
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2016, 10:01:03 PM »
I guess I should have said everyone I spoke to who can speak English, and watches the news also.

If you assumed I meant literally "EVERYONE" in Nice, Paris and Bayeux the consider the error corrected: )

Lighter

mudpuppy

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Re: Orlando
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2016, 11:27:30 PM »
I'd prefer to defeat, or at the very least suppress, the corrosive ideology causing the need for all the healing vigils after whatever is the latest massacre round the world.

mud