worst wounds from narcissists

[Ales2]

A question for the board. I am working on an itemized list of what are the worst wounds that effect me as an adult. Not causes, just the wound. 

What are the worst wounds you have to deal with from narcissism that effect you today or in your adulthood?

toxic shame
self doubt
invalidation
marginalized my abilities/underachievement
punished for being assertive
smallness
undermined adult independence
ability to trust others

[Twoapenny]

All of those, Ales, I would also add addiction problems (various kinds over the years), self sabotage, periods of disassociation (which leads me to doubt myself, my memories, my integrity and so on) and an odd combination of perfectionism/procrastination - as in I think I often put things off because they won't be 'good' enough, and if and when I do do something I tend to set myself a really high target and then berate myself for not getting there.  Almost setting myself up to fail, really.  Which is perhaps the same as self sabotage?  Maybe a lot of those things come under other banners?

[Ales2]

Thanks two, these are great. 

I used to struggle with procrastination/perfectionism cycles also.  Self sabotage is another one. I used to be an over-achiever and it was frustrating because it set up a jealousy issue with my mother. She was very happy to see me fall flat on my face. As, yet I have not gotten back up. Still working on that one. 

[Hopalong]

resentment

it took sooooooo long to stop being poisoned by my reaction to their poisonousness.

(Still pops up from time to time but I spot it sooner and take no pleasure in that feeling. It used to give me energy, but eventually it became an energy sink.)

Hops

[JustKathy]

Wow. All of the above, and more. Two that have really impacted my life ...

Feeling unworthy/not good enough to be around other adults:
Whenever I meet anyone, be it a new neighbor or a stranger at the dog park, I consider them to be more important than me without even knowing a thing about them. When I was in the workplace, I let people walk all over me, even if I was in a higher position than them. I'm a lesser human being, no matter what. 

Self loathing:
I've struggled with this my entire life because I look and sound exactly like my N-mother. When I was younger, I hated my voice, because it was HER voice. When I started to age, I began hating my face. I don't know what she looked like at 18, but I know what she looked like at 40, so once I started to age and looked more and more like her, I could no longer bear the sight of my own face. I've had plastic surgery to make my appearance less like hers, and yes, it has helped. I've obsessively worked to maintain my good figure (something she was jealous of). I've also colored my hair since I was 18, and worn it in a style completely opposite from hers. Anything to avoid looking like her. Anything.

[Ales2]

Wow!  I can relate to both of those. I don't initially feel less than, but when I compare my position in life to others right now, I do feel a sense of underachievement and they are ahead. I always felt behind others until college and when I left, I have myself a fresh start and of course, everyone builds their own career and moves on, which I fought very hard to do. I was very independent and somewhat successful in movies, but then I got passed by and stopped getting promoted. I sort of got stuck in the middle when younger and less experienced passed me by. I thought I had resolved this issue and would succeed fully, but I fell behind and got more and more depressed about it.

I can also totally relate to wanting to change my appearance because I look like my Mom.  Yuck.  We look alot alike, although I am almost 50 and have no wrinkles (yet). My Mother smoked and was "shrinkled" as I called it. Her face sunken and wrinkled by 45. I'm blonde like her and always thought the fast change would be just go RED. lol.  I also considered plastic surgery, but it looks like I might get lucky and age well, which would be the best revenge. HA!

[Ales2]

Hops,

Resentment. Another good one. I get resentment as a side effect from being invalidated. Its an awful feeling. Rejection can be polite, invalidation is similar but meaner, crueler.  Everyone has to reject, its part of life. But rejecting with concern is not the problem. You know, kind of like when a woman tells a man, "I am flattered you are interested, but I ....have a boyfrined, not sure we are right for each other, not dating etc.   Invalidation is more harsh and sometimes not even said in words, it can be done unconsciously. i.e the woman doesnt even give the man the time of day and laughs him off, that sort of invalidation. Thats where the resentment creeps in.

Yep, I get that one too.   

[Ales2]

Ha!

That list can be divided into two groups:
(1) Things I can take initiative with:
      (a) assertiveness
      (b) smallness
      (c) underachievement
      (d) self doubt/something wrong with me
      (e) undermine adult independence

(2) Things they do I can react differently with/not get triggered by:
      (a) invalidation/resentment
      (b) marginalization/pessimism
      (c) undermine adult independence

Anyway, just a side note to end the evening. These little posts are so helpful, thanks for the posts, comments and contributions! 

[sKePTiKal]

I'll toss out a suggestion for the list...

Letting the N and the relationship with the N occupy so much of my mind/life that there's hardly room for ME. When my whole life is encircled, bounded, defined by and limited by... the intricacies and spider-webs of N-ism.

Whether it's the struggle to be able to breathe freely while interacting with them, or trying to get on with my life in periods of low or no contact... any time they fill so much of my waking existence, I realize they've "won"... and that I've taken the bait - hook, line & sinker - once again.

I'm also not exactly exploring my life or creating "space" in it for me to unfold myself into it either, when I'm hemmed in by fear of future, current or unraveling past N-encounters/engagements. For me, it's boredom-inducing to keep running that hamster-wheel... and I'm not growing, either.

There is a time to retreat into the full-time work of thinking, inner exploring and the comfort of "known" routines and spaces. And there is a time to make like Vasco de Gama or Captain Kirk... and go where no man has gone before (at least in my personal resume... LOL). And it varies a lot from person to person - and like chickenpox and it's virus - can get triggered at different times in our lives.

<stopping, before the ramble picks up momentum>

[Ales2]

Very well said sKePTiKal.

I think the quote "Don't let someone anyone rent space in your head for free" is what you are describing about letting the N occupy your mind/life. I can relate to that.

I have a little too much time for inner exploring which makes me depressed. I would like to move on more and be focused on those forward steps. Ive noticed that when I do move on, a backlash happens because the N figures out I will abandon her soon (a fear that is well founded and that I have verbalized to her) and she can't tolerate that, so lots of passive aggressive games will occur and fake illnesses and crises will arise. Bring it on! I'm ready for that nonsense. I no longer engage with that and it ceases and I stay on track working on me.

Thanks for your comments.

[sunblue]

I would also add "lack of self-confidence" and "lack of a real identity".  I know that personally, being totally ignored, dismissed and marginalized by my N family has resulted in me having no self-confidence which has significantly impacted my professional life.

[Hopalong]

As I head pell-mell into my dotage, the most striking thing to me about the massive impact of Ns in major roles in my life (mother, brother, Nboss, and it pains me to say, likely daughter)--is that the biggest damage has been how my reactions to them ultimately changed who I am.

The work of the next couple decades for me is going to be discovering joy in my inner self. Neglected joys, stalled creativity.

BUT. My emphasis for meaning is not going to be the neglect. Or the forces that stalled me.

It's going to be on the joys. And the creativity.

One thing I believe wholeheartedly is that it never goes away. It's in there. And what you love and bring into the light -- is what grows.

I want that side to win, and I'm beginning to understand that this really is my choice.

Ns can leave me hurt or even penniless. But they do not possess my inner spirit unless I hand it over.
(And if I ever did hand it over--I can take it back. No fanfare. Just claiming.)

Hops

[Ales2]

SunBlue - Interesting note about self-confidence. Big hugs and kudos to people who can develop self confidence when they are being battered by N people. 

Hops - Reactions/responses changing who we are is a very good one. I find it hard to say in the same sentence "I'm no contact, but I believe in loyalty and working things out".  Those are two oppositional ideas.  Kind of like saying you believe in marriage when you've been divorced three times. It also means you believe in divorce to some extent. To be really accurate you believe in serial marriage, not marriage is forever. I believe in loyalty and working it out, unless you are dealing with a toxic person (could be Nism, drugs, alcholosim, abuse, sexist boss) then DONE. I think deep down we dont want to be quitters or exclude people, but that is often a necessary reality of life.

Focusing on Joy, creativity is a very good observation. Ive also heard/been advised, that as I move on, it will create an upsweep, where people around me will feel different about me as I feel different about me. If that makes sense. I think that is what you are doing/saying here. I am with you 100% in living the joyous life.

[Ales2]

One other little note. I had a dream last night, where the former N business associate was speaking at a Hotel nearby. I went there and went to the guarded door, trying to get in. Somehow he knew I was there and he came to tell me "I know you have been following me for years. Our business is done."

I woke up with kind of an odd relief. It is true, I "followed" his social media posts but in recent weeks, have entirely lost interest. Things that used to bother me about him have gone away and I don't feel them anymore.

[Hopalong]

I believe in loyalty and working things out, but I'm thankful I've learned what kinds of people are unsafe to be loyal to.

I believe in marriage, but I'm thankful divorce is possible for when a marriage shouldn't continue.

(I mean, if you were a wife of Henry VIII...)

More than I believe in abstract values about which to punish myself for falling short...I believe in compassion. And that includes for me.

Hops