I'm Back

[Redhead Erin]

Its been a long time since I posted here, but today I decided I still need this board.  (My original introduction letter is here:

http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php/topic,9009.msg143372.html#msg143372)

Even though a lot of things have changed, my issues have apparently remained the same.

Since I posted here last, my NM died (thank God), I got my EMT licence, threw my back out after 18 months on the job, and am now driving for UBER. I have ideas of going to Paramedic school and getting a job in a hospital, in the Emergency Department. That is how I started working in Emergency Medicine, and I love it.

I had meant to start looking for hospital work in January, but last night I had a back spasm that reminded me I am not as ready to resume steady work as I had thought.  This is the first time in 6 months this has happened.  I cannot say I am surprised, when I consider how I was doing NONE of the things I am supposed to do to care for my back. I am pretty disgusted, both with my back and with my attitude. I deserved this.  Will I never learn?

In other news, my husband had an Internet affair from June to November 2015.  I knew about some of it when it was going on, but I found out a whole lot more this past September.  I think I have most of the story now, but I guess I won't ever know for sure.  I mention it here because in attempting to heal from the betrayal, I have run into FOO issues that I have not given much thought to in years.  (Turns out, being thrown under the bus for another woman at 46 years old called up the feelings of not being good enough that I first internalized at 2 years old.  Who knew?)

I also seem to have a lot of codependent issues (imagine that!) that I never gave much thought to until the affair happened.  It seems I'm really not equipped to live much of a healthy life at all.  Having my entire marriage and the life I had imagined I had and would  have threatened,  showed me how many weak spots there are in my personality.

So here I am.

[Hopalong]

Awww, (((((((Erin))))))--Wecome back!

You know you fit right in, holes in your tights and all.
We're all tattered, healing souls and let me say also...

WOW. You have learned and done so much since you were last here!

You sound so honest. So clear in seeing yourself. Warts and all and no
defensiveness.

Maybe skip the self-attack bits and just hear--how responsible you sound,
how you own your choices? Sounding honest and responsible (not sounding perfect)
is inspiring to me. I need more inspiring role models, so I'm happy you're back!

You're taking hold of your life. You might drop bits now and then and pick
them up again. And so does everyone! Life is a clumsy thing.

You have GOALS. Not only that but you've already achieved some of them. Wow.

I'm really really sorry about your back. How painful and frustrating.
I hope you're able to PT your way into whatever brings you most satisfaction,
and I hope there's some really smart PT who can help you find your strength
so you can do ER work FT if FT is what you need.

I'm also sorry about your husband's wandering focus. I hope you have support
as you navigate that pain, too. Glad you'll find some of it here.

Hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Welcome back, Erin!  How funny, I was thinking about you the other day and wondering how you were getting on and then you pop up

Sorry to hear about your back and hubby but, as Hops says, glad there are goals to aim for and achievements to date.  I have kind of accepted now (almost!) that I'm learning to live with my 'stuff' rather than get rid of it altogether.  Sometimes it still knocks me sideways but for the most part things are okay.

Looking forward to catching up x

[sKePTiKal]

LOL, Erin... sounds like you've learned it's a lot harder for life to knock you down (and for a loop) than you might've thought at one time. That would be a good thing. I think I'm hearing a tinge or two of one of my favorite tones of voice: sarcasm - which is WELCOME to me, I don't wanna be the only one!! 

Yeah, life tends to remind us over & over again of the issues we first had challenging us in our FOOs. And yeah, we need support - 'coz we's all humans. So, no point in kicking yourself about the fact you might have to refine the work you've already completed. We'll be doing that till we ride off into the sunset.

Pull up a log while we all cozy up to amazon's yule fire.

[lighter]

Sorry you're struggling, Erin.

The cheating isn't about you.... it's about him. 

Invest in self care rituals.  Remember to touch base with yourself every morning to set goals and keep yourself heading in a better direction.

I always found journaling to be a very helpful tool...... I could barf everything up, read it, then write again, over and over till clarity appears.

Knowing how you really feel about something difficult, and why, makes it easier to figure it out, IME.

Lighter

 

[Hopalong]

PS, Erin--I think I may have glossed over the intensity of your blaming yourself for the two big bad things.

Please notice that. Even if you didn't do adequate back care, well your back has now reminded you so you can start doing it now. Even if there are "two sides" to every marital story, you chose to be faithful and he chose otherwise. It's weaknesses aligning with urges and it's the oldest story since the apple. So this particular betrayal cannot possibly be All Erin's Fault...(whether you've been a perfectly attentive spouse or not)...because it's a human nature failure that many good people succumb to.

Just like with your back, I hope the pain of it steers you together into counseling and healing. And if that pain leads elsewhere, one road NOT to take is the road down which Erin is Bad.

You really were lacerating yourself in your post: for neglecting your back, perhaps your hub. What if both of those things were true in some degree? Neither sounds to me as though they're anything to do with "bad personality" which is the worrisome part.

Self-blame can turn into self-loathing and that is hard to overcome.

I hope you have strong, capable, compassionate counseling to prevent either of you from turning to self hatred. For YOU. And for you both.

love
Hops

[Redhead Erin]

Hi everybody!

Its so good to see the familiar names.  Like coming home.

I have been trying for a while to own my choices and take responsibility for my own issues and mistakes.  I may be a product of my raising (aren't we all) but nobody is holding a gun to my head and making me walk down those self-destructive paths any more. 

The summer my husband was involved with that whore was absolutely the most horrifying thing I can remember. I was hysterical for months on end.  I don't blame myself for his awful choices, not in the least.  But sometimes I get caught in that weird headspace between "knowing" it had nothing to do with me, and "feeling" like it did.  If only I had been a better wife, better in bed, better at....you know what I mean.

I have done a lot of thinking and soul searching since then.  The worst aspect of the affair itself was that I felt like I was losing my husband, and without him I would be unable to carry on.  I felt like my personality was so intertwined with his, that he was so much a part of me, that if he left there would not be enough pieces of me remaining to patch together a functioning human being. I started making suicidal gestures (which did not escalate to well-planned attempts but could have been deadly just the same) and really felt that without him I would not be able to go on. 

I belong to another forum about infidelity, where they talk about the wandering spouse being in an "affair fog."  Let me tell you, the spouse is not the only one in a fog!  After I thought he was done with the slut, (turns out he was lying about that but I didn't find out until much later) it took me a few months to get my head above water and start wanting to live a normal life again. I wasn't really interested in dissolving a 30 year friendship and a 14 year marriage over what I then believed was a 3-month inappropriate friendship.

But I did need to heal. Mr. RedheadErin was not helpful.  HE would be kind and loving one day, nasty and horrible the next.  He would promise me the world, then do nothing.  Any time I tried to tell him my needs were not being met in our marriage, he would get defensive and make an argument out of it. He would say the most awful things. One day he loved me and would move the stars to keep me; the next he was miserable and wished I would file for divorce.  One day I was "awsome" the next a hateful shrew.  It was worse than being on a roller coaster; it was like being on a Tilt-a-Whirl blindfolded!  Things got worse and worse until one day I realized that he had always felt free to hurt me for whatever reason, and his affair was just more of the same. I realized nothing was changing in the marriage, but that I was changing.  I was no longer willing to put up with his shit. I made an appointment with a lawyer.

That was last August (2016).  Shortly afterward, I found out about more of the affair (the story as I know it now). He seemed completely remorseful and willing to change, to be the man I deserve. In the following couple of months, we attended a Retrouvaille weekend and took a family vacation to Texas (both had been planned beforehand) where he gave me a lovely ring and a promise to make a new start and be the husband I thought I was marrying.

Now, I'm not saying he isn't trying.  He has made some changes and I am very happy and proud of him. But lately something has been brewing in my consciousness.  I've been thinking on it and I realized what is really bothering me is, he is not "all in."  He is doing more for me and our marriage, but his efforts are tiny in comparison to the devastation he caused. He is doing what he wants to do or deems necessary, not what I need.  I have been holding his hand, trying to lead him through the process of reconciliation. Trying to keep control of him, to make sure he does everything right. As they said on my other forum, I have been driving this reconciliation train.

The reason of course is that I am afraid to let go.  I don't want this train to go off the tracks. I want the marriage I want to the husband I thought i was marrying.

I am coming to realize, I have to let go. If he wants me as his wife, let him fight for me.  He sure fought me hard enough when he wanted to hang on to his other woman.  I deserve a man who loves me that much. I deserve a man who would move heaven and earth to heal the wounds he has made.

I am realizing, too, that I have my own work to do.  Being so dependant on another person that I would accept that kind of treatment is not healthy.  Literally believing that his departure would require me to be hospitalized isn't healthy.   Delaying paramedic school until he can do it with me, just so he won't feel left behind, isn't healthy.  So many of my thoughts, feelings, and behaviors are not healthy, not moving me forward.

I have to get out of this trauma.  I need to stop the invasive thoughts, mind movies, and flashbacks. I need to break the cycle from childhood that tells me this is as good as I am going to get.  I need to stop feeling like a loser and turn my attention toward useful things.

I need to figure out how to live my own life, not a life that is ruled by the bullshit issues of other people.

[sKePTiKal]

That's a real powerful statement Erin.

I'm wondering if it would be possible to do all that within the framework of the relationship, or if he's so comfortable & dependent himself, with you doing all the "heavy lifting"... that it would be too much change without a plan to move in that direction gradually?

I think it's OK for us to love people who aren't perfect for us and don't seem to know what we need by reading our minds. We can learn to communicate that and create steps to get there. Being alone isn't always a better solution; and until we sort our own issues out - another relationship will just be trading one set of problems for new set. Loving people who aren't perfect is about as good as it gets in this life (since all of us have our emotional baggage & warts & stuff) and it IS possible to find new ways within the relationship to function so that both parties are more independent and content. Motivation, as ever, is an important factor.

[Redhead Erin]

sKePTiKal,

My goal and deepest wish is to heal within the context of my marriage.  I hope every day that is what will happen.

I'm wondering if it would be possible to do all that within the framework of the relationship, or if he's so comfortable & dependent himself, with you doing all the "heavy lifting"... that it would be too much change without a plan to move in that direction gradually?

I have considered that every day since he lied and told me the affair was ended.  I have been trying to ease him along, like a poorly-socialized and half-broken colt. I have tried to gradually introduce new concepts, new ways of relating and doing things. He never used to even try for more than a few days.  Now he tries harder, but he is still sliding back into his old patterns. I don't expect miraculous, overnight change.  After all, he has lived his whole life in these patterns.  Change takes time. I get that.

All through our marriage, and especially since the affair, I have been the one to do the "heavy lifting."  I have been talking about better communication for years. I have been talking about the damaging effects of his defensiveness and anger and selfishness for years.  I'm talked out.  I have been forgiving the hurts and enabling the behaviors I hate since before we were married. I can't keep doing that.

What I am currently asking of him is to take the reins in this healing journey.  Many betrayed spouses I know of have simply said "You made this mess, you figure out how to fix it." I didn't do that to him, because a deer in the headlights rarely makes a good decision.

I told him yesterday that it is not my job to figure out what needs to be done and to hold his hand through it.  I told him what I need him to do is to take the initiative.  Because he did make this mess.  I told him specifically that he needs to get on the internet or get hold of some books and figure out what a wayward spouse needs to do to help heal the betrayed spouse and the marriage.  Pretty much what I told him was to find the instructions, read them, and follow them.

I am trying very hard to let go of the outcome on this one. 

Meanwhile, I have my own shit to worry about.  I have issues, lots of issues. The affair brought up all the crap from my childhood that I thought I had conquered. There is the not-good-enough issue, and the fear-of-abandonment issue. There is the inability-to-trust issue, the getting-in-my-own-way issue, the only-good-for-sex issue. Don't forget the standing-up-for-myself issue. Disorganized thinking.  Poor habits with money. Procrastination to the point of doing myself serious damage. Refusal to cope with certain parts of reality and adult life.  Then there is the healing from the affair that I have to do on my own,  like getting past the fear and the hurt, reclaiming my own headspace, and setting boundaries.

Oh, and I have a life, too. A kid and a job and a house. Hobbies and pets. A back issue that needs care. You know, all that shit everyone has, whether they had an affair or a shitty childhood or not.

I got close to divorce before when the pain of staying in the marriage outweighed the fear of going off on my own.  So far, since September, the marriage has been a lot less painful.  The pain of living with a defensive, selfish, non-needs-meeting, half-assed-remorseful spouse may yet overcome all the reasons I might want to stay. It remains to be seen.

What I do know is that I need to heal my shit.  Married or not, I need to become the best Erin I can, because I owe it to myself. If he wants to be part of this journey, good for him.  If its too much work for him, he can get off the recovery train at any station.

[lighter]

Redheade Erin:


I can say this..... IF he's trying, and you know that you're being rather frank/brutal in response bc you still have hard feelings you need to deal with..... maybe you guys need rules for communicating during this stressful time? 

No name calling, yelling, being snyde or changing the subject till one subject is finished, etc.  A time and place for venting, and all needs to be in a I FEEL __________ about _______________ Because _____________ format about you and not the husband. 

Sometimes resolving problems in a marriage like this can lead to a much stronger bond, IME.

I wouldn't try to get through this without some counseling....... some voice of reason in a very emotional abyss, kwim?

In the meantime, take care of yourself.  Go to school.  Turn away from expectation, and see what he does.  Give him space, without judgement, and see what he does with it if it feels right.

I don't know enough about the situation to say anything for sure, but I have seen broken promises, along with the Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde behaviors and they don't bode well for resolving problems in the marriage, IME.

You can't change your husband or his actions.... but you can darned sure change your own to get a different outcome, KWIM? 

Onward and upward Erin.  With our without your marriage...... what will you be doing in 2017? 

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Erin, I think it's great that you want to deal with your own 'stuff' and that you've got to that point where you feel hubby can come along or depart the journey, as he feels best.  I know in the past I've been through big events and realised with a heavy heart that they've shown me I need to deal with more 'stuff'.  It's tough thinking you've got past something and then realising that you haven't.  You sound very pragmatic and dedicated to the whole situation of dealing with yourself and I think that sounds wonderful x

[sKePTiKal]

Erin, can you tell if those issues are still really issues for you or if they're simply echos: reminders of those issues and while you were busy with life, you HAVE made significant progress toward coping better with them? (Mine won't ever go completely away; I've accepted that - like having been born with a minor birth defect.)

At one point, I absolutely had to tell my sweetie all about my "issues", that I'd uncovered. He was glad that I'd found good help to teach me how to deal with them, but I also think it threw him for a loop - because in his mindset, it was HIS JOB to fix all that, make it all better and then we could live "happily ever after". During that phase of healing, I also had to learn compassion (for both of us) and communication of the things I couldn't even put into words for myself... for this poor guy who thought he had married one kind of woman and SURPRISE - turned out to be something different. But it definitely made things easier between us when he had a better idea of why I reacted the way I did. No, it never was "perfect"; things never completely "went away" between us -- but it wasn't so huge that he and I couldn't live with it. The "working on it" - our own separate challenges became part of working on the "us" too. And that's what a marriage is. There isn't any point of perfect nirvana lasts more than a day or two, in my experience. But as a team, it's easier to keep going... versus being competitors (althought THAT never completely went away either - LOL).

Until you "stand down" from being responsible for defining how things "should be", and giving each of you "performance reviews", and seeing JUST the things that aren't "perfect" yet, magnified larger than the things that are promising to bloom into what you both will be grateful for... there isn't any room for him to "step up" and into that role you want him to take on. Chances are, it's going to take him a few tries - some flailing around - before he figures it out and becomes a part of who he is in the relationship, instead of just an "experiment". When you can let go and really let him take the reins, is when you will see if there really is a way forward together.

This is really really really difficult for women who became strong because no one else was (in their way-back experiences). It's how we held ourselves and our worlds together - so it's like the LAST thing we want to let go and give up - and of course, when we first start trying this on for size it's scary as all get-out. And we don't always get it right the first few tries either. Beginners are like that.

I keep using the word "we"... but all this is directly from my own experience and watching my D look at and conquer and compromise with close to the same situation and conditions. Owning this kind of thought-pattern runs counter to another voice-over track in my head you know? The one that says I'll never get it right; I'll never be good enough; I've never figure out life out and be happy -- for however long that temporal feeling decides to come sit on my head before it moves on to the next person.

So please forgive the "we"... it's a way of talking over the other, boring re-run tape in my head.

[JustKathy]

Hi Erin,

So sorry that you’re having such a difficult time. It seems we have a lot in common. Not sure if that’s good or bad, but I do understand what you’re feeling right now.

I was struck by your first line:

Since I posted here last, my NM died (thank God),

Like you, I was completely relieved, even happy, when my NM finally left this earth. I thought, thank God, things will be better now.

In many ways things did get better, but I learned (and have actually read about this being common), that once we are free of our N-Mothers, be it by death or going NC, we may start to realize that we also married Ns. My husband has never cheated on me physically, but emotionally, he’s not there. I don’t feel loved, don’t feel companionship, am desperately lonely most of the time. With the constant stress and anticipation of my N-Mother’s antics out of the way, I've had more time to think about the emotional pain he’s inflicted on me over the years, not to mention a great deal of manipulation, like forced relocations that stripped me of my career and left me financially dependent. What I was oblivious to before has now smacked me across the face.

I'm not trying to make this about me, but am writing this so you know you’re not alone. It’s a very difficult journey to get through, not knowing how it will pan out, and what direction you should choose for your life. It’s especially hard for those of us over a certain age (I’m in my 50s). There's the choice of being unhappy in the marriage, but having financially stability, with a home, clothing, food, health insurance. Most importantly for me, my many pets that I love dearly and could not afford to take with me if I chose to strike out on my own. Still, I constantly think of possible scenarios. Could I do it, if I had to? What can I do to change my life so that I'm not dependent on another? For me, it's been working on two books: a novel and a memoir. I totally agree with Lighter about taking care of yourself and finishing school. Having an education and/or skill gives us power, and hopefully, increased confidence and self-esteem. As N-daughters, the latter can remain a challenge despite our accomplishments, but therapy and groups like this one can really help with that.

The affair brought up all the crap from my childhood that I thought I had conquered. There is the not-good-enough issue, and the fear-of-abandonment issue. There is the inability-to-trust issue, the getting-in-my-own-way issue, the only-good-for-sex issue. Don't forget the standing-up-for-myself issue.

Being daughters of Ns, I think we all blame ourselves in this way. I know I do. I was stupid, I wasn’t good enough, I didn’t try hard enough, it’s somehow MY fault. It’s hard to move forward when those thoughts were implanted in our brains at such young ages, but it CAN be done.

Anyway, so glad that you’re back. I think I was away from the board while you were most active here, so we’re both returning after an absence. I’ve been a member almost from the start and always end up back here when times get tough. So grateful for this safe place. It really is like home.

Hope you have a wonderful holiday.

Kathy

[Redhead Erin]

Yesterday my husband and son and I were kayaking down the river.  My son is a great kayaker (is that a word?) and took off. My husband and I were paddling together but I kept getting ahead and then having to stop and wait for him. And it dawned on me, this is a metaphor for our whole lives. 

I was thinking earlier about the person I used to be.  I used to be determined and ambitious. I set goals and reached them. I accomplished what I set out to do. An old boyfriend once told me, "Where there is an Erin, there's a way."  And then what happened?  i got married.

I was headed for medical school before I had my son.  Then waited for "the right time" to go back to school until it was no longer an option.

I thought my husband would be the one to help me heal from my past, to save me from my demons. I'm still waiting.  So much for all the progress I could have made in the meantime.

I could have spent my mother's money on Paramedic School. I would have been done by now.  Instead I chose to wait until my husband (also an EMT) was ready to go with me.  We spent the money on other things and I am still an EMT. 

I am ready to move forward with this marriage and start making dramatic positive changes. He is not ready to give up his old selfish ways.

I'm not waiting.

Deep down, I am still that woman. God never intended for me to sit around acting like a frightened little person. I don't have to wait for my husband's say-so to go to school or heal my wounds or be the person I want to be. I don't know what enticed me to bury myself for so many years, but I know I'm done with it.

[Twoapenny]

Yesterday my husband and son and I were kayaking down the river.  My son is a great kayaker (is that a word?) and took off. My husband and I were paddling together but I kept getting ahead and then having to stop and wait for him. And it dawned on me, this is a metaphor for our whole lives. 

I was thinking earlier about the person I used to be.  I used to be determined and ambitious. I set goals and reached them. I accomplished what I set out to do. An old boyfriend once told me, "Where there is an Erin, there's a way."  And then what happened?  i got married.

I was headed for medical school before I had my son.  Then waited for "the right time" to go back to school until it was no longer an option.

I thought my husband would be the one to help me heal from my past, to save me from my demons. I'm still waiting.  So much for all the progress I could have made in the meantime.

I could have spent my mother's money on Paramedic School. I would have been done by now.  Instead I chose to wait until my husband (also an EMT) was ready to go with me.  We spent the money on other things and I am still an EMT. 

I am ready to move forward with this marriage and start making dramatic positive changes. He is not ready to give up his old selfish ways.

I'm not waiting.

Deep down, I am still that woman. God never intended for me to sit around acting like a frightened little person. I don't have to wait for my husband's say-so to go to school or heal my wounds or be the person I want to be. I don't know what enticed me to bury myself for so many years, but I know I'm done with it.

Hi Erin, it's nice to see you back   And nice to read you are in warrior mode.  I can understand the 'waiting for someone else to do it, too' method.  I think it feels scary to do things on your own, whether it's healing and repairing damage or moving on to a new adventure.  It's nice to have someone catch you if you fall.  But then you realise that person might also be the reason you're not doing it in the first place.  Go for it.  Hubby may catch up!  He might not.  Where there is an Erin, there's a way   And keep us posted!  I love reading your news x