When narcissistic father has cancer

[sea storm]

Watching ex husband bathe in the warm light of huge attention for cancer diagnosis. This sounds wicked of me and heartless and it probably is. What I experience of this is only a part and a biased part at that.  My daughter is heartbroken and willing to throw her finishing her doctorate to the wind in order to fly 6000miles to his side.  So.... the cousins are supporting him and my daughter is off handedly dealt out completely. When she says that she wants to be close to him now, he sneers and tells her she is dropping a guilt trip on him.  She is so sad and this is crippling.

Her dad has enormous charisma. Most I have ever seen anywhere.  Like a kind man in hell. However, he is a big time dealer and criminal. Sooooooooooooo bizarre.

Every dynamic in this twisted family seems to amplify by ten since this diagnosis. They look so great from the outside and I can see why my daughter feels she is never good enough. Its like a great broadway production and beautiful people but my daughter's role is the golden child who is doomed to be on the outside. This is really crazy.  She is a wonderful woman and yet in the family she is seen as a bit of a loser because she has feelings. And she sees. She is very intelligent and knows her dad is an alcoholic and does heroin occasionally, IF THERE IS SUCH A THING.

She can't bear to hear a negative thing about him and so I don't indulge myself with that.
I hope she can detach. She said Please Mom, don't contact him, it only causes trouble.  I think I already rocked the boat by writing stories about fishing with him and putting them on facebook. I kept it pretty light in describing what  a self centred, work obsessed bastard he was, but it was there bubbling underneath.


BLLLLLLEACH>   One should be very careful when tangling with a honey badger. Honey badger don't care

[sea storm]

Oh well .... I wondered why no one replied and got all paranoid and finally came back and reread the post. It is not a wicked rant and totally mean spirited. So frustrated and crossing paths with ex who is a narcissist. He is a grand one and so very toxic to his children. It hurts to see their pain.

I was watching videos of soldiers returning home to their children. They were scenes of such wecolming and deep feeling, laughter and tears of joy at being reunited. When my daughter went to visit him and her step mom, they greeted her by saying they were off to visit a friend who lives three hours away and they said she could come too. Right. She had just travelled with a five year old and a two year old and they had jet lag and all the rest. Her kids barely know their grandpa. Instead of seeing this a paralysingly selfish, she took it personally and felt unworthy. It really made her feel crazy and disoriented.  If she says "Hey dad, that hurts" , he says  " Don't lay a guilt trip on me." He makes her take responsibility for the pain he caused her.

I would like to interfere but it is not possible to get through to him. He has only contempt and he is so busy playing to the crowd. I am sorry that I had a child with him as he has some kind of aberrant heart. I am not sorry to have my daughter. She is so wonderful and loveable. She tries over and over to get his love but he is not capable of giving enough love to sustain her or anyone. It is like watching a child, full of life and goodness, asking for love from someone who is standing with their back to the child and is busy talking to his buddy on the phone or chopping onions.  A stone wall. 

I have considered revenge but that won't change the facts for my daughter of having a narcissist for a father.

This is not in my power, but nevertheless, I thrash around trying to magically even the scales of justice and mercy but their is neither.

[Twoapenny]

Hi Sea,

 I did read your first post but didn't reply because I didn't feel I had anything useful or constructive to say as it's not something I've had/have experience of.  The board is fairly quiet sometimes so sometimes it does take a while for posts to be responded to.

All I can say that popped into my head whilst reading both posts was.............

Soldiers home coming vids - they only post the heart warming ones   Amongst armed forces personnel there will, unfortunately, be soldiers who abuse their kids and/or their partners and their home comings will signal fear and anxiety, not joy and happiness.  There are also all the people, here and abroad, who's family members don't come back at all and you don't tend to see videos of people sobbing into their pillows or kids at their dads' funerals.  All I'm saying really is try not to judge your own life (or your daughter's more specifically) against YouTube happiness and joy stuff because it doesn't give the whole picture

I think most of us have been in situations where we've tried to gain the favour of an abusive parent.  Unfortunately until your D gets tired of being treated like that (and she might never do) I don't think there's really anything you can do about it, other than show her healthy love and affection, saying and doing things to help her self esteem and help her feel good enough.  At least if you can give her the good parenting you will know she's getting it from somewhere

[JustKathy]

It is not a wicked rant and totally mean spirited.

You know what, Sea, even if it were, I'd have no problem with it. Be as mean spirited as you want to be. There is nothing more despicable than someone using their impending death to wreak havoc on the lives of others, to gain satisfaction from guilting people, or even exacting revenge on family members (none who ever did anything to deserve it). When my NM died of cancer, she played everyone like a fiddle from the moment she was diagnosed until the day she took her last breath. Instead of spending her remaining time doing something constructive with her life, she used it to create drama and to hurt others, badly. She was only able to die happy with the knowledge that she had taken others with her, figuratively speaking.

I've had people look down on me for saying that I'm glad she's gone, but I don't feel bad about being wicked or heartless. We aren't being wicked; we're being HONEST.

Not being a parent, I really don't have any advice for the situation with your daughter. Tup is probably right in saying that she may have to learn for herself, if that's even possible. Unfortunately, Ns can have a hold over others that may continue far beyond the grave. Only time will tell.

I do hope your daughter finishes her doctorate. Keep letting her how proud you are of her achievement. It's a big one!

I wish had more solid advice, but the most I can do is let you know that I sympathize with what you're having to deal with. I hope it helps to know that that you're not alone. I would guess that most Ns probably behave in a very similar manner when the end comes, if they're able to. I'm quite sure that they hope for a prolonged death from cancer or other disease. I'll admit that I had always hoped my NM would die from a massive heart attack and go instantly. A terminal diagnosis gives them time to perform their final curtain call, and they'll pull out all the stops. Wicked and mean spirited til the end.

[Hopalong]

Oh, (((((((((((Sea))))))))))))).

I can just imagine how much you want to be your daughter's shield, and how it hurts to watch her try to get love from a sock monkey.

But I echo that you can't do anything about it. Except yield and give her what she's asked for--by not contacting him, you give her the space her psyche still needs to go through this daughter-of-him gauntlet alone. She will let them hurt her as much as she feels compelled to. And when it's over, especially if you've helped to maintain your own peace...she can rest in your love while she heals.

It's like watching her into surgery that's exploratory, and having no idea whether she'll come out with a small scar or utterly altered. But you can't go under this knife for her, as much as you would in a heartbeat.

It's got to be so hard, with a heart like yours, to anticipate and even feel the ripples of her suffering. Which also so echo your own. (And that could make it more difficult to not enmesh or over-involve...the similarities.)

I do feel for you. And I'm sorry I didn't reply faster.

love to you,
Hops

[lighter]

I'm sorry sea storm:

It's terrible to watch our children get hurt, over and over.

I am sorry that I had a child with him as he has some kind of aberrant heart. I am not sorry to have my daughter.

I have considered revenge but that won't change the facts for my daughter of having a narcissist for a father.

This is not in my power, but nevertheless, I thrash around trying to magically even the scales of justice and mercy but their is neither.

I so resonate what you wrote above.  It's difficult to just let the harm happen, and know it's not fair, and will never make sense. 

I understand the thrashing and wish for justice too.... truly I do.   At this point.... for me there's no way around the process.... all the roiling has to be done before circling back, and coming as close to center as can be managed. 

It's hoped we find a way to suffer ONLY once, and then no more.... to just stop.   Maybe it's back to radical acceptance.   I get that, but it all falls apart when we see our child suffer, IME. 

Or...... maybe we get to a place where we've suffered enough, and we just stop, bc we gain the ability to see what we're giving up while suffering, and we learn how to choose something else?  Just accept our children have a path, and it's not going to be easy, and we'll be the soft, understanding place they'll land when needed, and just let that be enough.   

Like I said.... I'm still not there, but I can sometimes glimpse it perfectly when viewing some other situation from afar.   Maybe I can even see it for myself sometimes.

Part of this is accepting we had children with Cluster Bs.  It means we don't have good choices, IME.  Only bad, not so great and awful choices, IME.   Not so great being the best of them, IME.  If we find a way make peace with that reality, we can make peace with ourselves, our situations, and our children's situations?  Maybe?

Truly, sea..... it's not fair.  Even if we spend the rest of or lives railing against it.... it still won't be fair, IME.   

Lighter