How Do You Manage Your Stress?

[Twoapenny]

I'm suspecting the answer will be just to keep chipping away at it but I thought I'd post just in case anyone had a miracle cure I'm not aware of

Stress is having a quite profound and very negative effect on my health and I can't dismiss it any longer as a bit of a stage I'm going through.  I think the main reason is that my son's needs and my own are very different and it just isn't possible for both of us to be healthy.  If I live the way that makes me happy he gets ill, if I live the way that makes him happy, I get ill.  Longer term I'll be looking into residential care for him but that won't be for a while yet (and there will no doubt be a fight for funding to get it as well).

Some examples:  It was beautiful and sunny this morning.  I went out into our lovely garden with my coffee and sat in the sun watching the birds and the clouds, having a stroke with next door's cat and generally feeling very happy and content.  My son can't be left on his own indoors for longer than twenty minutes.  I can get round that by popping back in every twenty minutes to check on him, plus he can call me from the kitchen window if he needs me.  But the other problem is that there was a lot to get on with indoors and a lot I needed to do with him.  If I sit and relax it's lovely but then I get stressed about the work that doesn't get done.  If I do the work then I don't relax and I feel stressed because of that.

We were going to go into town but the van wouldn't start.  I bought the van as a hobby, a learning opportunity and something to improve both our lives because we'd be able to get out and about more.  She still needs a lot of work and sometimes feels more of a hindrance than a help.  I do still want to have her; long term I think she's still a good vehicle to have.  We walked into the village, which was lovely, but I have to push him in his wheelchair, which is tiring.  I've hurt my wrist from pushing him about so that is painful, as are my neck and shoulders.  We went into the cafe - I'm trying to mingle a bit and try things out.  It was very nice and it turns out our next door neighbour works there and she's lovely, so that was really good.  It was also very expensive, so it isn't somewhere we'll be going to very often.  We got chatting to another lady in the park on the way home who told me about a community cafe that's very cheap and sells very nice home made cakes so we will be going there in future.  That was really nice too, but what I'm aware of is that when I chat to people a sort of panic sets in and takes over straight away that I am boring them, that they don't want to talk but they are tolerating me, that I shouldn't take up too much of their time, talk too much and so on.  It's almost a blind panic in my mind and it isn't until after the chat when I'm on my own again that I realise how panicky it makes me.  I also feel constantly on alert to protect my son; from abuse, from strangers staring, from people making rude and inappropriate comments.  It doesn't happen very often, certainly not often enough for me to feel as protective of him as I do (and he's pretty capable of standing his own ground these days anyway).  But I still feel very tense and anxious when we're out, so I have the stress of that when we go out (as well as the practical difficulties) but equally if we stay at home I find it stressful because I get so lonely.

That's probably enough for now!  I've worn myself out typing   I'm just trying to keep chipping away at it but I just find it so tiring at times.

[lighter]

((((Tupp))))

I get what you're saying.... so very much. 

You're in a doubling bind with business of caring for your son/self.  They're both necessary.  You can't do them perfectly. 

Sometimes when I'm stressed it's impossible to think outside the box.  If what I'm doing isn't working, the logical conclusion is that I have to come up with a better plan, and find a way to put it in place.  That means I have to STOP acting out of habit/survival mode.  I have to explore changes.  Part of the process is being aware and taking stock.  I can't do that when I'm operating out of fear and exhaustion. I can't. 

My girls aren't defenseless young children any longer, just as your son is growing up, and gaining strength.  Yes, our children have needs...... my oldest is healing, and your son has ongoing needs, but..... how much help do they need, and how can we accurately gage the level of help/trying to fix them is healthy.  We help them get stronger too when we're on target, seeing what's in front of us NOW, and not in the past.   

Have we fully evaluated and internalized the changes in our children?  Can we step out of protective mama bear mode long enough to SEE the truth? I sure hope so.... I'm trying.  That particular subject resonates with me deeply right now, as does the self care piece.

I do believe you and I are operating from a hyper vigilant state..... for years this is true.  Too many years.  Maybe this time, if we find a way to stop being so vigilant.... we won't get smacked in the chops THIS TIME?  It wasn't true for years, but now?

We're like Pavlov's dogs..... we've been conditioned.

 Unlearning..... finding new habits, and putting them in place.... just so difficult, and esp if we're beating ourselves up for not being able to just make changes.  SO not helpful, and we both do that.... I know we do.

I think part of it is the trauma trapped in our skin, organs, and bones. We can intellectualize all day long, but if it's IN our cells.... we have to find other ways to approach the tender spots, and remove them, IME.  I think trauma lives in everyone's bodies, btw.  Not just ours.

I'm researching Somatic Therapy right now..... along with the Brain Integration, and I'm hopeful about it.  I speak with a T every two weeks who shares a similar history.... she actually divorced her ASPD.  It's helpful, and she's all about the Somatic T.

I'm letting panic wash over me as it comes..... trying to do nothing when it hits..... waiting for pressure to release, if just a bit, and it always does, IME.  Learning to withstand the discomfort long enough to think clearly again, so I can shift to creative solutions.  I try to think outside the box.  I try to find who I was, inside, and pull her back into the light..... ask her for help.  I need her.  I miss her.  I need her strength and fearlessness. 

It's difficult to be hopeful consistently.  I'm sure it's a roller coaster for you as well. 

There's a lot of fear, I'm realizing.  more than I want to admit.  I find it shameful have so much fear.  It's debilitating though.... I have to face it, and work it out.  What's the truth, and what can I do about it?  What do I have to let go of, and just accept?

As for you and self care, my dear...... I'm guessing sleep is something you need and choose over getting up before your son wakes?  I'm wondering if getting up early, doing yoga/something endorphin producing, even if it costs you something in the short term... might lead to feeling better in the long run? 

I'm wondering if you can apply for a motorized wheel chair to lower the physical strain your body takes?  There's been so many changes in your son's condition/dx.  CAN you ask for that?  Perhaps our son would be served well in that case?  Perhaps not.  I don't know... just throwing it out there.  Very often they're for sale, used, (or at Goodwill) around here.

Perhaps you and your son could find a new rhythm for the breaks you need for yourself?  Longer...... without expectation they'll happen over night, but something to work towards?  Change is so hard, and Spring is on it's way.  Perhaps he can go into the garden with you, and work into new habits from there?  I can imagine change for him is quite upsetting..... it's never going to be easy.  It's always a struggle, and costs energy you don't have. 

I know we need our best selves to find solutions..... less fear and panic.  It's hard to come from a place of exhaustion, and paralysis... hard to improve situations, IME.  I wonder if one of your new neighbors could help you brain storm?  You deserve some support and fellowship around this, IMO, Tupp.  Maybe you won't always have to do everything yourself?  Maybe you can find some respite you didn't have before in this new place with such nice people?  Groups for support and help... are there any in your neighborhood?

How to let go of the old thought patterns, and embrace new habits/thoughts to improve our health, and ability to respond?

OK... lets do this.  Let's pat ourselves on the back for being present, protective mothers who care deeply, as a priority, for our children.

::pat pat pat::

We get that, and it's ours..... that belongs to us.   

Now that they're growing up, what are their needs?  I think we have to find that truth, and begin with that piece perhaps?   

::sending Tupp reassurance that things will get better with perseverance::

I promise.....
for both of us, ((((Tupp))))

Lighter











 

[Hopalong]

MORE LATER, but we need an electric wheelchair for this boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grants? Can you claim it's physically impossible for you to continue pushing him? Surely there's some resource fund somehwere? Can you write a letter to a wheelchair manufacturer and ask for help acquiring one?

This makes me mad.

love
Hops

[Twoapenny]

MORE LATER, but we need an electric wheelchair for this boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grants? Can you claim it's physically impossible for you to continue pushing him? Surely there's some resource fund somehwere? Can you write a letter to a wheelchair manufacturer and ask for help acquiring one?

This makes me mad.

love
Hops

It's in the pipeline, Hopsie, but it's a looooong process and ,as always with us, my son doesn't fit neatly into any particular boxes; he can walk (and some days he can walk well) but he can't walk a long way every day (or more specifically, he can but then can't do anything else for the rest of the week).  So he falls between the cracks of all the different systems that are in place.  You can apply for funding via a charity but you have to have been told 'No' by the various public sector departments before a charity will look at your application and it's waiting for everyone else to do their bit that takes up so much time!  I am keeping my fingers crossed that if they can get his epilepsy under control then the walking will improve anyway but unfortunately so are they which is why they are reluctant to help in the meantime!  We will keep at it, though x

[Twoapenny]

((((Tupp))))

I get what you're saying.... so very much. 

You're in a doubling bind with business of caring for your son/self.  They're both necessary.  You can't do them perfectly. 

Sometimes when I'm stressed it's impossible to think outside the box.  If what I'm doing isn't working, the logical conclusion is that I have to come up with a better plan, and find a way to put it in place.  That means I have to STOP acting out of habit/survival mode.  I have to explore changes.  Part of the process is being aware and taking stock.  I can't do that when I'm operating out of fear and exhaustion. I can't. 

My girls aren't defenseless young children any longer, just as your son is growing up, and gaining strength.  Yes, our children have needs...... my oldest is healing, and your son has ongoing needs, but..... how much help do they need, and how can we accurately gage the level of help/trying to fix them is healthy.  We help them get stronger too when we're on target, seeing what's in front of us NOW, and not in the past.   

Have we fully evaluated and internalized the changes in our children?  Can we step out of protective mama bear mode long enough to SEE the truth? I sure hope so.... I'm trying.  That particular subject resonates with me deeply right now, as does the self care piece.

I do believe you and I are operating from a hyper vigilant state..... for years this is true.  Too many years.  Maybe this time, if we find a way to stop being so vigilant.... we won't get smacked in the chops THIS TIME?  It wasn't true for years, but now?

We're like Pavlov's dogs..... we've been conditioned.

 Unlearning..... finding new habits, and putting them in place.... just so difficult, and esp if we're beating ourselves up for not being able to just make changes.  SO not helpful, and we both do that.... I know we do.

I think part of it is the trauma trapped in our skin, organs, and bones. We can intellectualize all day long, but if it's IN our cells.... we have to find other ways to approach the tender spots, and remove them, IME.  I think trauma lives in everyone's bodies, btw.  Not just ours.

I'm researching Somatic Therapy right now..... along with the Brain Integration, and I'm hopeful about it.  I speak with a T every two weeks who shares a similar history.... she actually divorced her ASPD.  It's helpful, and she's all about the Somatic T.

I'm letting panic wash over me as it comes..... trying to do nothing when it hits..... waiting for pressure to release, if just a bit, and it always does, IME.  Learning to withstand the discomfort long enough to think clearly again, so I can shift to creative solutions.  I try to think outside the box.  I try to find who I was, inside, and pull her back into the light..... ask her for help.  I need her.  I miss her.  I need her strength and fearlessness. 

It's difficult to be hopeful consistently.  I'm sure it's a roller coaster for you as well. 

There's a lot of fear, I'm realizing.  more than I want to admit.  I find it shameful have so much fear.  It's debilitating though.... I have to face it, and work it out.  What's the truth, and what can I do about it?  What do I have to let go of, and just accept?

As for you and self care, my dear...... I'm guessing sleep is something you need and choose over getting up before your son wakes?  I'm wondering if getting up early, doing yoga/something endorphin producing, even if it costs you something in the short term... might lead to feeling better in the long run? 

I'm wondering if you can apply for a motorized wheel chair to lower the physical strain your body takes?  There's been so many changes in your son's condition/dx.  CAN you ask for that?  Perhaps our son would be served well in that case?  Perhaps not.  I don't know... just throwing it out there.  Very often they're for sale, used, (or at Goodwill) around here.

Perhaps you and your son could find a new rhythm for the breaks you need for yourself?  Longer...... without expectation they'll happen over night, but something to work towards?  Change is so hard, and Spring is on it's way.  Perhaps he can go into the garden with you, and work into new habits from there?  I can imagine change for him is quite upsetting..... it's never going to be easy.  It's always a struggle, and costs energy you don't have. 

I know we need our best selves to find solutions..... less fear and panic.  It's hard to come from a place of exhaustion, and paralysis... hard to improve situations, IME.  I wonder if one of your new neighbors could help you brain storm?  You deserve some support and fellowship around this, IMO, Tupp.  Maybe you won't always have to do everything yourself?  Maybe you can find some respite you didn't have before in this new place with such nice people?  Groups for support and help... are there any in your neighborhood?

How to let go of the old thought patterns, and embrace new habits/thoughts to improve our health, and ability to respond?

OK... lets do this.  Let's pat ourselves on the back for being present, protective mothers who care deeply, as a priority, for our children.

::pat pat pat::

We get that, and it's ours..... that belongs to us.   

Now that they're growing up, what are their needs?  I think we have to find that truth, and begin with that piece perhaps?   

::sending Tupp reassurance that things will get better with perseverance::

I promise.....
for both of us, ((((Tupp))))

Lighter

I've nodded my head all the way through that, Lighter!  It's the getting out of survival mode thing that I think I stumble on.  Take yoga, for example.  I did get up earlier to do it today and it does feel good and I do try to do it when I can.  But I also find because it releases stress, tension and various unpleasant things (as does detoxifying my diet, cutting out caffeine and so on) it can also make me feel unwell, unhappy, focus more on the lack in my life (if I'm stressed my mind focuses on that; if I'm relaxed I start wanting to go out, have a boyfriend, have a mum who loves me and so on).  So it's that see sawing back and forth; do a bit, struggle a bit, do a bit more.

A friend came over last night; not a particularly close friend but someone I've known since I was a kid, a nice bloke, generally quite caring and easy to get along with.  It was the first time he'd visited my new flat and the first time I've seen him for quite a while.  He knew I had a cold so he'd bought cold and flu stuff with him and throat sweets, that sort of thing.  Nice gesture, but he'd asked me if I needed anything before he came by and I'd said no, so I felt like he wasn't listening to me.  We don't have any carpet on the stairs yet and as he walked up them (it's a first floor flat so you come in and go straight up the stairs) he said, sarcastically, "Nice flooring" and then went on to critique the windows and start telling me how I ought to decorate, recommended a carpet fitter for me (the last person he recommended to me for something was awful and cost me a fortune so I'm definitely not taking any more recommendations!) and then started talking about places we can visit over the summer and where we ought to go and I just got more and more fed up but didn't know what to do.  He intersperses this with offers of help, friendly chit chat and a bit of banter, but also kept touching my knee.  I think that's where I struggle with the survival mode; my brain just seems to freeze.  This morning I got up in a mood and was thinking about it all.  At first I'm hard on myself, thinking I should appreciate the fact that he came over, he was kind enough to buy medicines, he's offering to help.  But the more I thought about the more I felt that he's unnecessarily critical (comments on the lack of stair carpet but doesn't mention the lovely pictures on the wall, my prayer flags, the unit that I put together myself, the plants on top of it, the scarves and hats I've hung along the banister that make it look cosy and homely), is making decisions about how I should spend my time (I have a million ideas of how I want to spend my time and don't need any help on that score!) and that he SHOULDN'T BE TOUCHING MY BLOODY LEG!!  And I just wish now that I'd been able to feel all of this last night and deal with it at the time but there still seems to be a big delay between something happening and my brain responding

Anyway, I'm rambling again and need to go and get groceries so will check back in later (but yes, you are right, it is necessary to notice and accept our kids growing and their needs changing and I am struggling with that.  I still feel that I need to protect him all the time and it really isn't the case anymore).

[sKePTiKal]

Sounds like your friend needs a little remedial boundary maintenance, Tupps. It can be gentle - but it has to be clear, in no uncertain terms. (Good luck finding that happy medium, btw... I'm terrible at it.)

Some gigantic chunk of sludge is working loose in me. It has to do with the pouty resistant inner child. Somewhere in the past few weeks I've realized the poor thing still feels really "needy" for validation. So much so, that it's practically a characteristic. So in the external day to day life, I'm still having to deal with a lot of paperwork type stuff; business stuff... but I'm really happy with the work I've been able to do fixing up my house so far... pulled in two directions, while in inner life - I'm overly conscious of that hole that needs filled.

3 things = stress for me. Which one do I deal with?? Before I reach nuclear meltdown stage?

Friday, by some miracle, I either finished or was a stopping point on those projects. I didn't have anything I "had" to do... so I didn't "do" anything except get ready for this last beach trip (last dentist appt). Yesterday, was drive all day - into spring weather. Today, after the appt... it's drive all day back to winter. LOL. I don't "think" when i''m driving - I just drive. And that really helps me "see" what's going on.

Instead of being super-tight in the shoulders, back hurts, hip hurts etc while driving I just consciously relaxed as much as possible. Even though I needed to get here at a specific time to have dinner with my friends. It doesn't sound like much... but just remembering to un-twist the tension that builds up HELPS lower the feeling of anxiety/panic/overwhelm. Set an alarm on your phone: every 3 hours or so... and take 2 mins to just consciously let the tension slide away - even while you carry on with what you're involved in. Some deep breathes, relaxing the muscles, visualize smoothing the nerves...

MIGHT help.

[lighter]

Amber:

Scheduling TIME to decompress..... mindfully..... bc it's not something we DO otherwise.  Not consistently anyway.  It makes sense.  It's practical.  It serves a purpose, and who knows where it might lead, right?

This is the confusing part for me.  Self care used to be my life.  I didn't need to pencil it in or set an alarm.... I had an unspoken agreement with myself.  I worked out with a group of people I  liked, we developed awesome, but perishable, skills,  we went to dinner afterwards sometimes, did works of public service, and....... everything sort of fell in place around it.  Laundry, yard work, food, work, social life.... paperwork.  There was a good deal of balance, and...... I have a hard time remembering struggle from that time of my life. 

There was flow..... I'm pretty sure.... it was flow.   

What the heck is so hard about it now?!?!?  I'm confused, frankly.

Have we been convinced we're not worthy?  Driven to the edge.... lacking emotional room to maneuver, plan, and carrying through..... put flow in place?

Learned helplessness?

I think everyone here cares what other people think. 

I think we listen to what other people say..... we want everyone to be OK.... even the people who've harmed us very often, and......   

I think we're pulled in different directions consistently, and that we likely have a hard time honoring ourselves above all others....  51% right?

Confusion.  I feel confused about this topic.  Setting an alarm.... chunking self care and decompression so we don't physically fall apart..... don't emotionally drain down too far.

DOES it, on any level, create conflict to think through, and perform self care rituals as a priority for us?  Is that it?  Does self care bring up conflict with someone else in our life?  With what others think?  What we think of ourselves?  Tupp.... your cost is care for your son, but there's more to it, I think. 

Lack of balance is conflict.... it just is.  Our children not being OK creates conflict.

What would we have to face, now, in order to get self care straight, and on track for ourselves?

I used to DO it without a second thought.  It was my life.  I never questioned my worthiness, or lacked energy to carry it out as a habit I enjoyed.

What's changed now?  Why have some never been able to do it?  IS it the same thing?  Learning how to do it for the first time, and learning how to do what was once very easy?

Is it about some perceived conflict we're avoiding, I'm asking you?  Avoiding conflict is BIG for me.

Does self care, or the idea of it, create some conflict in our minds, IRL?

At a point I had to put down the self care rituals I used to enjoy for pragmatic reasons..... what others thought, and the power they had over my life and freedom.  I get putting it down, I get the fear around it, and connections to the fear NOW, even though the actual threats are over..... I hope.

And now I'm hearing from the pouty inner child that knows it wasn't fair, and hates the unfairness, Amber.  She's critical of the things I've tried, including trying to go back to the old patterns with new people in new places.  It wasn't the same, it was wrong, different, blah blah blah.... heartbreaking at times even.  I've tried. It's never going to be the same, and it's always going to be unfair and how do I stop the inner pouty child from popping up, and taking over?

Acceptance...... that might help me.... very likely.  Going over this helps me tease out the details of what was, what's been lost, and what's left. 

I can see glimpses of what could be, but there's other things, more powerful things, that pop up when I do.  It's where I live in my head that's hampering, I think.

A back and forth between outside stress pressing in.....
my hampered ability to respond/let go of the past.....inability to calm the pouty inner child.....
look ahead and see possibilities.... find the energy to plan, and put uplifting rituals in place while blocking out the negativity and resistance.... so I can create something I had once, without effort.

The word..... alchemy comes to mind. 

There's something dragging us back when we make strides, bc we do have good times/days/moments.   

My ability to respond.... to block out things... has been damaged. 
This see sawing is debilitating. 
::sigh::

I think this thread is helping.

Lighter









 

[sKePTiKal]

FWIW... just free-associating from Lighter's post...

pouty inner child wants what WAS - that time it was all in balance - to LAST

Life is change; change means new stuff, bodies wearing out, patience wearing thin... change itself becomes a threat - instead of an opportunity

Are we really conscious of flow - while we're in it? Or is it only after the fact, we can recognize it? When we're "in flow", perhaps we ARE the flow?

-------------------------

Why is it, Alzheimers patients "become" someone else? Claim memories that clearly did not happen? Lose memories of important people, events?

Is it possible that identify, self, ego... is a random data-set of characteristics that is fluid, mutable - and in the end NOT ALL THAT IMPORTANT - as compared to "essence" or "being" that can select from any number of "unique, individual adjectives" and claim them for one's own? Is it the ownership here, that's the functionally important bit of ego?
----------------------

My theory about those pouty, rebellious, defiant inner girls is that they're madder than hell, and they'll show you (or him or whomever). They were on their own "good enough" track to growing and maturing and most importantly understanding life, themselves, where they wanted to be in it... and that was abruptly CHANGED... that they became zombies or poltergeists - free floating, untethered, and without loyalties... that last one, is important.

So the rest of us, continued on. Bodies grew and matured. We married, had kids, validated ourselves through careers, education... all the while thinking we'd moved on (and in some cases forgotten) those pouty girls - who regardless of acceptance that we did NOT do bad things to ourselves, nevertheless failed for whatever reason to PROTECT ourselves or escape.

I've mentioned mine as being super-needy; insatiable is the word that comes to mind. She will not be content, or satisfied. She has had her eyes opened, to the magic of how giving love - returns it. She has seen - in action - little ones validated by mom and despite what she KNOWS about mom, still wants that. Still gets the lesson reinforced, that it's not gonna happen in this lifetime. Pouty, angry Twiggy is yelling at her mom: YOUR TURN.... it's not a one-way street.

There are no substitutes in Twiggy's fantasized magic "counter spell" - to finally break her purgatory. It HAS TO BE MOM. And hence, the impasse.

Irresistable force meet immovable object.

Attachment theory gave me a framework for understanding what this was - but it didn't prescribe a remedy. Twiggy's original way of dealing with it, was to feel like an orphan. There is a bit of wisdom in that - because the processing of grief does allow one to become whole again. To not be fighting myself at the same time, when life throws us curveballs. Because that never stops.

Twiggy had a great aptitude for the logical, linear left brain dominance tasks... but she WAS more happily centered in the right-brain activities of her own little private world. Inner world. And she was in the process of learning how to balance that... when POOF... everything went to hell; shattered. Shattered is the only word that really describes that feeling and state of being.

A gazillion little pieces that couldn't possibly be put back together the same way again.

She had to be content with putting it back together as best she could. It wouldn't ever be the same; that's against all the laws of nature & science. It was the best way forward. But she still doesn't like it; still stubbornly clings to that - "I am who I am and I want Mom to say so; stop pretending I'm like her".

So, she has to continue grieving that real loss. It's never going to happen and wanting it - not giving it up or letting go - is being a jerk to me, and hurting herself. Blaming herself. Letting herself be stuck wanting the impossible. And she'll admit that this is true; that her choice of stubbornly continuing to struggle over this just runs in circles. And then, like the poltergeist - she'll unexpectedly show up and pick on ME - because mom's an "untouchable".

That's too much blathering; and not enough.

[lighter]

Amber.... "Too much blathering; and not enough." 

Yup yup yup.

I'm digesting what you wrote.

The part about our inner young girls being angry.....
the "I'll give you ____________." 

It's so present and alive for me.  Has been.  I noticed it in 2010 as revelation.  I didn't recognize the pouty child piece, but that's exactly what it is!



Tupp:

About the guy with his hand on your knee.  I wonder if you've ever told him, with clarity, what it is you want, and don't want from him. 

If you've stated boundaries clearly, and he's stomping them over and over again....can you set him straight once and for all?  Do you dread his response, or has he ignored huge messages and boundaries?  Is there something overbearing about him that makes you apprehensive.... too apprehensive to speak?

If he's a nice guy he'll respect your NO, even if he's disappointment, IME.  If he's unclear on the rules of this game.... he needs to hear it..... simple, short and straightforward..... without emotion.  Friendly, but firm.  THEN listen and watch.....  how does he respond?

If he can't calm down, respect your stated boundaries, and enjoy what's in front of him.... maybe he won't continue to be a part of your life?  As Hops said to me.... he'll continue to overstep, bc he won't be able to control himself, and that's just too hard, IME. 

If he never understood the terms of engagement.... it's time you informed him, IMO.  He might respect spoken boundaries and become a better friend, but be honest with yourself about what he is saying and doing once you've clarified your position.

((((Tupp))))  It's just too hard to have some guy putting his hands on you, and ignoring your NOs, IME.   It takes too much energy to feel powerless, IME.

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Yes, yes and yes to all of that, reading, digesting, felt confused, now things are making more sense

Inner child - I realised, literally in the last few minutes, that when I start to de-stress, have fun, relax, look after myself this enormous hole starts to open up inside me.  And when that happens I start looking to outside sources to fill it again.  I haven't been able to fix my mind to anything today; I've faffed about on the internet reading through forums, particularly reading over and over again vile, racist comments that make my skin crawl and make me feel ashamed to be a human being.  I kept thinking 'stop reading this, get off the internet, go for a walk' but I still kept reading and getting angry and upset sitting indoors on my own.  Eventually I went out and bought a cake, then we drove around for no reason and then we went for fast food.  All the time thinking 'why am I doing this, I'll wish I hadn't later' but still doing it.  And it was literally as I was reading through about the things you'd both written about the pouty inner child that I realised that's what it is; the stress fills the hole and when I start to lose the stress, the hole has to be filled with something else.  So I reach out for human contact the best I can (usually on the internet because it's safer than real situations) and that doesn't fill the hole with anything positive so then I start filling it with food instead.  What I could do and should do is fill that hole with something loving anc caring; yoga, some time in the garden, something to read or listen to, a really nice meal, a coffee with a friend.  But what I do instead is seek things that will only make me feel worse.

Need to ponder some more.  Wow.  Time to let go of some of this.  Thank you

[lighter]

(((Tupp)))

I think de stressing/detoxing does open holes, take off the garbage lid, create overwhelming other feelings a new way of feeling that must be endured......  adjusted to if one can stick with it, and see where it goes. 

Through the abyss.... can't go around it, over it or under it.  One must crack on, and emerge from the other side.... likely?  Avoiding sure doesn't work, IME.  It must be the tackling, but HOW exactly to tackle.... I'm just not sure. 

I'm leaning more towards the subconscious mind.... subliminal approaches ..... rather than going straight at something, though straight at is in my nature.  Trying to dissect.... tease apart... understand and reason my way through just isn't cutting it, IMO.   If it was the most efficient way, it would be working better for everyone in T, kwim? 

I long to return to the Amazon bonfire.....  engage in ritual.  I long to sneak and sideline issues in ways they aren't expecting... haven't experienced before.  Side doors.... back doors.  Unexpected doors.

With that said, you're identifying negative patterns. 

You're naming them, and taking stock of them......
what you gain from them now. 
What purpose do they serve? 
They've helped you survive in the past, and perhaps honoring them, as the old warriors they are...... thanking them for their service is necessary on some level? 

Embracing them, with gratitude, makes it easier for them to let US GO? 

Maybe this isn't just about us letting them go. This isn't just about replacing old habits.... it's not, IME.   

It's necessary for those pieces of ourselves to feel safe enough..... to trust we'll be safe without them..... maybe?  Those defenses that have served so long, kicking in without thought.  Just there. 

I know some of this is about neural pathways.... deeply ingrained..... things trapped in our bodies.... so many layers and levels to dig out from, on top of being aware, and naming, replacing. 

It's unfair/unrealistic to expect anyone to shake off negative habits easily.  If lecturing and talking about them did the trick, healing would be more common in T's offices I would think.

I know that people who can't honestly self reflect have a more difficult, if not impossible time adopting better coping strategies, IME. 

If the toxic PD's harmful coping strategies are the incubation chamber for empaths negative coping stragies.... how does one approach the entire paradigm, with all it's moving parts.... so sense can be made, and understood? 
So. 
Many.
Moving. 
Parts. 

OVERWHELMING to contemplate the entire system, IME. 

Just contemplating ONE of our own negative coping strategies is overwhelming, IME.  Pushing it aside for a moment brings up overwhelming feelings. 

Has anyone here ever noticed holding tension in their muscles......... shallow breathing..... I have.  I know I do it to hold space... keep myself from feeling.  Since I was a child..... I've done this.  It's second nature, and part of what I am.  Trying to just STOP isn't helpful.  Approaching it from a mechanical place isn't working.  I can't intellectualize my way out of this one. 

back in the summer I worked on my breathing with the BIT practitioner.   I had a huge reaction neither of us saw coming.  I might have posted on it....not sure.  It was terrifying.

I fought that reaction, which looked and felt a lot like shock.... chattering of teeth,  physical shaking/shivering. I fought it tooth and nail.... with every fiber of my being.  It started in my torso and head, and I'd fight it down to my feet and legs, then fight it back up again... I just couldn't let it BE, and help it leave.  I just couldn't.  I also couldn't breath, which created panic.  Such a huge physical shock AND an emotional scare when I expected to find relief, and then....... couldn't breath at all. 

I'm interested in revisiting it, and that particular practitioner is interested in understanding too.  I hope we can figure out if muscles around the lungs, diaphragm area are shut down, and if so... can they be reactivated?  If so, what will that bring up?  Will things get much worse, or much better or both? 

Not sure, but I'm hopeful. 

Like you said, Tupp...... something will pop up when one things moves aside... it's just part of it. I wonder if we learn to trust, and somehow stop becoming overwhelmed before it lands.... will that be possible and make things move more quickly?

I know this.... I'm more interested in the BIT for it's ability to help release trauma than relieve learning disabilities, though that's an important aspect also, IMO.

::nodding::

Lighter



 

[Twoapenny]

IMPORTANT - MAY TRIGGER - SORRY!

Sorry for the caps as well but I know some things leap out at us and catch us unawares.  Out of the blue, with no prompting from me, I'm starting to remember detail of being raped.

For a very long time now virtually all the details of being abused have been hazy at best.  A lot of what I remember is more physical flashbacks - I've experienced the sensations but no visual memory is attached to it, whilst the bits I do remember feel like watching a film or reading about something that happened to someone else.

It's very odd that you describe that very intense physical reaction, Lighter, because that's almost exactly what I woke up with in the early hours of this morning.  I was shaking and crying and saying 'no,no,no' over and over again, I felt intense pain and I felt absolutely terrified.  And with it are visual memories.  I can see him coming into my room, I can feel my body stiffening up and then I can feel intense pain and a feeling of suffocation.  I can see his shadow all the way through it and smell his breath, there's noise and then everything stops and there's literally nothing there.

I think the best thing for me for the next few days is to stay home and just practise lashings of self care.  I feel exhausted but also in some way exhilarated?  I'm not sure if that's the right word to use but I do feel some sort of release or finality, perhaps.  Anyway.  Lots of resting, relaxing and eating healthy food for the next few days, I think, while I wait for all of this to adjust and sink in. x

[sKePTiKal]

Tupps - I am sorry you are finally able to retrieve those memories, complete with smell-o-vision to enable you to relive those times. But, I do know that sometimes this is the "going through" part to get to the "have gotten past" part. Journaling your feelings as those come back is important because we're usually too shaken at the time we remember to "see" anything useful. If you can't find anything useful, after taking a good amount of time to look for it - then, remembering is simple "poking a sharp stick in your eye" - and maybe best to not do it anymore.

I understand that hole you describe. My theory, for now, is that this is the void left in our "self" that should've had the mothering, the mirroring back to us, the gentle guidance of "no, that's yucky - here have this instead"... and the enforced routines of self-care. Yes, you DO have to brush your teeth more than once a day so you don't get cavities. (Oh, hey... this is why I have such dread of dentists... just put those pieces together. And yes, I've had to have extensive dental work done to correct the neglect of my teeth in childhood.)

Back to the "hole"... that attachment pair... caregiver<>child... also is supposed to generate a sense of being valued, cared for, protected, safety. But when caregiver is PD, it can be DANGEROUS to child to let this person care for them. So, I experienced role reversal - me caring for mom; but also being the object of extreme jealousy/envy... to the point where if I was cheerful, content, happy, and enjoying myself... mom saw that as me trying to rub it in, that she wasn't. I was trying to HURT HER (in her mind) by going elsewhere to find what I needed to feel content and whole. And yes, punishment followed when she was in her Jekyll/Hyde mode. If she was simply depressed, it was better for me and my brother.

So, I developed the coping mechanism of hiding any "treasure" I discovered in life under a bushel basket of negative camoflauge SO MOM WOULDN'T KNOW. So she wouldn't get angry & punish me. I got so good at it, I hid it from myself a lot of times. LOL. This kind of crap also made life more complicated than it really needed to be, used up a lot of mental/experiential time, and was generally that 16 Ton Anvil, overhanging daily life.

So I still have a lot of fear about simply enjoying life. The "other shoe" syndrome. And I'm absolutely terrible about letting people help me, treat me to something simple like dinner, (OMG, they're being nice to me!! What bad thing follows??) and I'm totally convinced about my ability to survive as a human - all curled up as small and as invisible as I can be without attracting any attention - that coming out of the grief process over Michael, moving, dealing with new and unforeseen circumstances - I was exhausted and my brain knew the old well-worn neural tracks Lighter's talking about.

And the brain went there and I was simply too tired to resist. But I'm recovering now. Having "new experience" dreams... not old stuff... have sanely lost some weight through more physical activity than I've had in YEARS... and still had plenty of time to just sit and watch fat snowflakes drift through the air. I think we can learn to stand apart from those neural reflexes - and gain a small micro-second of "choice" before simply treading the old ruts... that will let us choose something different THIS TIME.

Takes a lot of practice.

[Hopalong]

Oh, (((((Tupp.)))))

Coincidentally, I just watched a documentary ("Call Me Lucky") today that was about the very thing you experienced, and wound up being one of the most inspiring films I've seen in my life.

He raged and thought and fought and thought some more...and one of the things he also conveyed as an adult was, going through the memories, ghastly as it can be, is key to healing from them.

You are no longer alone and that bastard...I can't believe he walks the streets.

Big gentle hug,
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Thank you both, I'm doing fine and whatever is going on I feel like it's released or moved something that's been stuck for a very long time.  I'm glad I wrote it down because it's already faded and I didn't really remember how intense it felt until I re-read what I wrote two days ago.

Funny that you mention that film, Hops, because I'd been watching a series that was about a small group of people who'd been abused as children and who'd made a pact to kill each other's abusers as adults.  So much of it was ringing true with me so I think something in that stirred things up and set something free.  I feel better for it, though.  I've looked after myself and had a very lazy day watching films, napping and eating well.  I'm looking into full time education options for my son and I'm thinking again about re-training once he's sorted out.  I'd like to start seeing the lovely therapist again - I've no child care at the moment but I'm waiting for social services to get back to me about sorting out some help so fingers crossed I can sort something out, even if it's just once a fortnight.  I'm doing okay.  Thank you for being there, as always x