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Heist on Something....

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lighter:
I'm glad you had a good time, Hops.  I'm glad you and B can see each other..... really see.

B may have his visions of married life, but you keep him grounded, my dear.  You certainly aren't a prop in a man's life.....not that he sees women that way.  Just say'in..... falling into someone else's happy fantasy is an uncomfortable place to fall, IME.

I'm happy to read you're communicating so well with B.  Come what may..... that's hopeful.
Lighter.

sKePTiKal:
Naw, I didn't have any more to say than, I'm glad you had fun and that you two are getting along just FINE...  LOL.

Hopalong:
Thanks, Amber (and Lighter!).
I feel as though I've stopped fearing whether or not he is a well-intentioned or decent person. I'm still concerned about what I consider cruel politics, but getting to know him better helps me see that this has a logic to it that comes from the environments he's lived in and the people he's admired. They sadden me but being angry about it is pointless. On another level it's moving to find ourselves connecting (as best we can) even across such an enormous gulf in world view. And there is no difference in why I have my "soft, sloppy" views, either. It's the environments I've lived in and the people I've been inspired by. Same same. Different different. So maybe in our own little way, whether it's lifelong or not, we've been discovering something hopeful. To reach across that gulf with kindness or even love is a big deal, given the state of society. I don't know whether I should, or he should, sacrifice the rest of our lives to such diplomacy, but it's been good to see people can.

Where I see challenge, and don't yet know whether I can overcome it, is in the personality stuff. My own faults, laziness, stubbornness, impatience, etc. are very big to me and could become so to him. My other weaknesses -- ADD, cowardice, difficulty sharing my space and time, fear of enmeshment -- could be deal breakers too.

What I struggle to cope with about him are:
The OCD. His slowness and timidity about decisions, making transitions, obsessssssssssssions about food planning especially -- are hugely difficult for me. I become impatient, irritable -- and stressed, because I do not want to be irritable about things he can't help.
The managerial side. It's huge. And also seems like a compulsion. He is SO attached to being paternalistic, in charge, and being right because he’s successful...this drives me bonkers. He does listen to my perspectives attentively, so I think the opinion differences aren't as big a deal as the sort of "energy" all his “managing” can insert into being together.
Fantasy vs reality. I've belatedly caught on to an issue (you get this Lighter). He constantly calls to tell me about "if you were here, I would kiss you, and then we would sit on the sofa, and then you would.... etc etc." His fantasizing is so detailed and engineery that for me, it drains desire and spontaneity. I do think a lot of the time he is in his head, planning, engineering a future, and thus not entering deeply into the present (except for expressing need for touch).
Back to management. After a lovely time, he'll make a "talking points takeaway" kind of executive summary. "That was a very good kiss." "For tonight you get an A+." He is forever making evaluative ‘grading’ pronouncements about me or us. He says these are compliments, but something in me is turned off. I don’t think he means to be condescending, but I struggle not to take it that way.
Ignorance. He is not much of a reader. He doesn’t spend a lot of time thinking about society or culture, or least way less than I do. He focuses on preserving the status quo and following the existing “rules” he’s familiar with. He doesn’t challenge class things, or envision a different world. In fairness, he knows what has worked for him in life, and he got rich. But he’s oblivious to white and male privilege, which I find just intellectually dull. I don’t want him to feel guilty for his good fortune, and he’s right that people create their own luck in many ways, but when it comes to empathy for the unlucky plus acceptance of how cruel this culture is to the vulnerable, he seems clueless. (Maybe if I were a rich older white man I wouldn’t want to look at it either.)
Lucky for B (hah), I’m going to give him a Tim Wise book called Under the Affluence. I don’t want to “train” or “educate” B myself but if he’d at least read that book, I’d feel more hopeful.

All that said I do feel more hopeful after this trip. And I can’t change him, just work to figure out whether I have the goodness and patience I’d need to become his mate. I also have to figure out a huge one….money. The next Big Thing we’ll need to find our way through is how to establish understandings about money (him rich, me church mouse) so that the gulf (again with the gulfs!) would not, in times of disagreement or disappointment, rise up to kill love.

I would love some security. I would LOATHE anyone who held money-power over my head. That’s a scary one.

I would love y’alls random thoughts about that.

Thanks for hanging in on the Heist!
xo
Hops

sKePTiKal:
Thank you! I need to think about something/someone else for a bit.

Shoe was on the other foot, with Mike & I. I didn't want him to suffer ego-wounds or feel as if I was in control of all money decisions. We never really had a "formal" agreement about it, once his old debt was cleared. What we did do, is make money decisions over a certain amount, a discussion and joint agreement process. That gave him latitude to feel free enough with the checkbook, to do his favorite bargain shopping, etc. without anyone looking over his shoulder. And of course, going through estate planning... we had to talk about and formalize the arrangements for my girls and his D.

But with Ex#2... money was definitely weaponized, to maintain his preferred balance of power. Oh sure, my paycheck went into my checking... and I paid my debts and bills... but security of the financial type all resided with him, until I jumped off of that cliff and completely walked away from my equity in the place we built together. It was that important to my emotional survival to do so.

Something I insisted on - and will again - is always having my own money, separate checking acct, etc. We even had a separate household account for awhile, while we were working out the biggest problems about communicating about money. Every single couple goes through this. It helps if you both can talk about it in practical terms without one person getting defensive - or insisting only one way is "right" and will work.

I do think relationships between people who come from such different past lives can work. But it's going to take the work you two have already been doing... trying to see things from the other's point of view and actually "understand" - not just respect/tolerate. That's how you'll find the common ground between the two points. In a nutshell, you'll have to decide if you can live with the other on a daily basis... accepting that this is who the other is. That includes accepting Hops' warts & all too. Without keeping score.

OH... and about his business/managerial persona?? Best thing you can do is remember you might have to be more assertive than normal about your druthers, preferences, etc. It'll help remind him that a partnership doesn't brook one person always giving orders. Think of it, as he's hard of hearing, when it comes to considering other people's wants/needs... and not being all that good at reading emotional body language either. LOL.

There, I did have something useful to say. I hope!  ;)

Hopalong:
INCREDIBLY useful, Amber. Thank you so much.

Late to work so I'll check in later but just know that was such a thoughtful, reality-based response...it helps me think. (One of my challenges...thinking so much sometimes renders me incapable of a grain of common sense.)

Thank you!
xxxooo
Hops

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