Winter Stuff

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Lighter. That's really supportive and kind. I think I'll be okay.

All this makes clearer to me why I haven't previously stuck with the dating effort. The lonelies hit (every winter) and I resume the quest, then back away from it.

This time I hope I'll stick with it. I keep thinking about extraneous things like:
would I have to move, what if he's insensitive or dishonest, can I get enough alone time if I get into a relationship, blah blah.

Lately I've been telling myself I only need to look for one thing: not wooing or flattery or instant chem, but love. I am looking to give and receive, and build long-term, heart-love. Agape plus enough eros. The real deep cherishing kind of love with a decent, kind and honest person is what I want to experience and create. That's really my biggest criteria for a partner for the rest of my life. If that's absent, it would all become misery. I don't want delusion or crazy wooing (been there, result was ultimately a disaster). So as you say, I need to be in observer mode.

Ole boyfriend B called the other day with a pretext of sharing an article. He's clearly very lonely. I feel sorry for him and realize that he may just never be able to release or have insight about how controlling he is. No deep compatibility there.

So I need to keep listening to and respecting my intuition, I think. The one-date writer contacted me again today to see if I'd changed my mind, and he is still disappointed. I was encouraged to recognize that I still trust the gut decision I made and don't have any doubts or ambivalence about it. Told him so kindly, and that if our paths cross again I'd welcome him as a friend.

I'm hanging in and have a church meeting tomorrow and will see friends. Good.

How are things with you?

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Hi, Hops:

I'm not a good person to give advice about love.  Deep.  Abiding.  Respectful. Reciprocal.  Love.  I've had it.  The universe knocked it out of my paws.  Wasn't supposed to be mine, not for long, and that's OK.   There's something else I'm meant to do.  I truly feel that.  I've had more experience with the misery you speak of, unfortunately.  I never got the formula down for finding lovely men.  I think I feel.... relief.   Just... relief. The thought of not dating again is a weight off my shoulders.  No sadness or grief involved at all.   

I really do think dating should be about boundaries, and learning to sit, without DOING, and paying close attention to what they're saying, are they asking questions, or waiting to speak?  Are they tuning into your sense of humor?  DO they have a sense of humor?  Do they have empathy?  Care for other creatures and human beings?  Are they thoughtful, and kind to others?  I find people typically do to us whatever it is they're doing to others.   If they're not nice to others, eventually they'll be unkind to us.  They'll show us who they are.  We can be open to receiving that information, or we can engage in excuse making, IME. 

Where the gut comes in, and I've thought about this quite a bit, is where we're experiencing confusion....
that place where we're feeling light as a feather happiness....
hope swelling in our chests, thinking about future joy with someone, bc this is a game we've played so many times before...
not good for us at all, always ends badly, not going to get us what we need, but deep abiding longing for something we can't have or doesn't exist...
vs
initial discomfort with being treated really well, bc it's not a dance we've danced a lot.  It's not what's familiar, and it doesn't feel like home right off the bat... 
vs
the guy doesn't SEE us, doesn't hear us, doesn't get us, doesn't care about us past how we make HIM feel, serve his needs, attend to his words, etc.  It's a thin thing to feel that, even if there's other lovely distractions around the connection, and it's easy to pretend it's enough, but I find it just isn't.  Eventually we're going to have to pay attention to ourselves, and get our own needs met.  That usually doesn't go so well, IME.  Not with the selfish ones, IME.  Even if we do it without resentment...  even if we embrace it with joy, and appropriate attention for the right reasons,  it's usually a "thing" IME. 

When to let the boundaries become more fluid, when to pull them in, and enforce them... cut bait and move on without judgment.  It's not a good thing or a bad thing.   It's just the way it was, and it's not the last thing.  It's just what's happening on our way to what we're supposed to be doing. 

I think our brains too easily get queasy, and confused, where our guts KNOW things,  if we'd only listen.  I wish it was easier to notice that confused dazed wishing and hoping mode, pull back, and engage intuition with economy of motion.  Just cut to the chase.  Save a lot of time.

It's the judging things BAD that takes up time, and spins us around I think.  If we could just put our finger on whatever is bugging us, accept it, be grateful we figured it out quickly, then turn our happy attention to what comes next, without mourning, and feeling gut punched... that'd be better, yup yup yup.

Amused curiosity, sans judgement.... is a good thing, IMO. 

Lighter

[Hopalong]

the guy doesn't SEE us, doesn't hear us, doesn't get us, doesn't care about us past how we make HIM feel, serve his needs, attend to his words, etc.  It's a thin thing to feel that, even if there's other lovely distractions around the connection, and it's easy to pretend it's enough, but I find it just isn't.  Eventually we're going to have to pay attention to ourselves, and get our own needs met.  That usually doesn't go so well, IME.  Not with the selfish ones, IME.  Even if we do it without resentment...  even if we embrace it with joy, and appropriate attention for the right reasons,  it's usually a "thing" IME. 

When to let the boundaries become more fluid, when to pull them in, and enforce them... cut bait and move on without judgment.  It's not a good thing or a bad thing.   It's just the way it was, and it's not the last thing.  It's just what's happening on our way to what we're supposed to be doing. 

I think our brains too easily get queasy, and confused, where our guts KNOW things,  if we'd only listen.  I wish it was easier to notice that confused dazed wishing and hoping mode, pull back, and engage intuition with economy of motion.  Just cut to the chase.  Save a lot of time.

I felt really encouraged reading this, because first, it's so well put and second, that IS what I did (finally!) with the writer. I didn't feel like BADDING or WRONGING him...just listened to my gut and acted accordingly. I didn't have to shame or slam him, just respectfully held to my own decision, acknowledging he had a different point of view. It felt good. Unfortunate that it took a panic attack to get me there, but the whole process was swift, if not smooth. And looking back a week or so, I have calm.

I also think perhaps my decision (which took 5 months, not 5 hours) about B. was good practice. It showed me that in my current life, maybe the decades of being without a partner were not wasted after all. I really have been thinking and learning for a very long time, from my mistakes.

xxoo
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Hops, for what it's worth, I find weekends difficult.  I need the quiet and the down time, as does son, so I purposely avoid making social arrangements or organising days out and concentrate instead on doing the boring but necessary household stuff and just resting.  But I do find it boring and lonely and the phone remaining silent for the entire time weighs heavily on me sometimes.  So I don't have any practical suggestions but I do understand how you feel

I think your anxiety over what Mr Right might think when he discovers your less than perfect self will diminish when you meet Mr Right.  I think Mr Right, for you, will be so enamoured by your intelligence, your generosity, your creativity, your resourcefulness and all the hardships you have ridden through, that he won't give two hoots about your untidy bedroom or your lack of a filing system (as you wouldn't if the situation were reversed).

I think it's great that you didn't need to find something wrong with the writer - it just wasn't right and that's enough.  No need for fault or blame, it just wasn't a good match and you told him calmly and kindly.  Ten out of ten xx

[lighter]

Hops, for what it's worth, I find weekends difficult.  I need the quiet and the down time, as does son, so I purposely avoid making social arrangements or organising days out and concentrate instead on doing the boring but necessary household stuff and just resting.  But I do find it boring and lonely and the phone remaining silent for the entire time weighs heavily on me sometimes. I think it's worse IF we frame it through the lense of the Facebook culture... ME ME ME ME WITH THIS CONNECTION ON THAT TRIP WITH THESE FRIENDS!all the time.  We could be framing it as NOT having connections, for the sake of hearing the phone ring, hear people babble at us for non reciprocal attention, etc...bc that means we have the space, and calm in our lives to recognize a connection/person/people we DO want in our lives, assess it, and invite it in, or choose not to.  My point is... the phone not ringing all the time isn't good or bad.  It's not having the connections we desire, and if that means we STOP ourselves from allowing and inviting in the connections that we don't want, then it also means we're making ourselves available for what we truly desire, IMO.  I'm not writing that out a third way; )  ::uncrossing eyes::. So I don't have any practical suggestions but I do understand how you feel

I think your anxiety over what Mr Right might think when he discovers your less than perfect self will diminish when you meet Mr Right.  I think Mr Right, for you, will be so enamoured by your intelligence, your generosity, your creativity, your resourcefulness and all the hardships you have ridden through, that he won't give two hoots about your untidy bedroom or your lack of a filing system (as you wouldn't if the situation were reversed).  I think deep connection is about loving someone's strengths, as well as their weaknesses.  True connection prioritizes the strengths, and is patient and kind about all else, IME.   When we pretend, have to act like someone else... that's a huge red flag, IME.  It all goes back to desire, wishing and hoping, IMO.  If we release expectation, we're free to BE our authentic selves, warts and all.  Perhaps we showcase our strengths for dates, one, two and three, then, if this person is truly safe, and someone worthy of our trust, we venture into sharing our weaker side.  Knowing when to share, and when not to, is important, IME.  If we trust an unworthy person, then we can expect a certain kind of outcome, kwim?   

I think it's great that you didn't need to find something wrong with the writer - it just wasn't right and that's enough.  No need for fault or blame, it just wasn't a good match and you told him calmly and kindly.  Ten out of ten xx

[lighter]

I also think perhaps my decision (which took 5 months, not 5 hours) about B. was good practice. It showed me that in my current life, maybe the decades of being without a partner were not wasted after all. I really have been thinking and learning for a very long time, from my mistakes.

xxoo
Hops

See..... that panic attack could be framed in any number of ways.  It's only negative IF you're focused on the physical aspect, IMO.  I think the anxiety might very well have been your intuition doing a backflip.... refusing to be dismissed,  forcing you to listen.... to break the spell of becoming confused. 

And you did move through this with economy of motion, compared to the 5 months learning with B. 

A thought.... take it or leave it.

You might have survived the first years of your life by giving the benefit of the doubt, and assuming the best of people who didn't deserve it. 

Your brain doesn't see this as bad or good.  It did it's job bc you survived.  Reptilian survival brain doesn't care how you survived, or if you're healthy and happy... lower brain only cares that you're breathing.  That was the mission.  It succeeded, and sees no reason to change.

 Any attempt to alter those pathways might feel like a threat (panic attack.)   

 Riding it out,  refusing to let the anxiety force you back into old patterns, allowed you to calm yourself, engage your frontal cortex, and utilize problem solving skills to make sense of the situation.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Tupp and Lighter! Very wise and thoughtful reactions, I really appreciate your perspectives.

Interestingly, I got a diatribe from the writer guy. He said my decision was NOT OKAY. His reasons are that I'm operating out of fear and that's not good for me...and I "threw him under the bus" and he was "stunned" and the date was "the best first date you've ever had" (!!!!) and ... and ... and ... all about mystery and possibility and potential...and reading it I was just feeling, thank GOD I trusted myself. He was reading me the riot act, basically, making all sorts of assumptions (he does not know me) and presuming too. Whew.

I was tempted to write back and say, this accusatory email has confirmed my instinct (which it most definitely HAS) but opted for: "I understand how you feel but will not go into a defense. I'm sorry you are disappointed but one date--even such an enjoyable evening--did not obligate either of us not to reconsider if we needed to. I did. When I was in the same painful position several times, I learned the path to peace was to accept that I did not control others' choices even if I don't admire them. Best wishes."

Boy was he steamed. Basically calling me a coward. And that's a huge red flag. His long narrative of his turbulent relationships was my warning. So even if it didn't fully hit me until the middle of the night, I'm so glad I heard it.

xxoo
Hops

[Hopalong]

I've re-read his email several times and feel nearly spooked. I dodged a bullet there. I don't know if he's unstable enough to pose a threat, and do doubt it (he is 75)...but his entitlement and overall attitude of how-dare-you were emotionally chilling.

There was a dark undertone and I think it was just his emotional underlying issues. But I need that like a hole in the head.

So despite his charm, my intuition functioned well. Now I have another first date coming up, with the gregarious, over-the-top perfesser. Holy something, I hope I can hold out enough under what will I'm certain be a tsunami of charm, to have discernment and continue to observe well. I am uneasy because he was SO over-the-top effusive and, again, we haven't met.

It surprises me that when I say, I'd rather not correspond much before actually meeting AND go ahead and set a date for that...that some men just keep on writing. Charmingly curious but in a way relentless.

So with the perfesser, I've got to find out whether he didn't hear me or didn't listen or didn't care what I'd said. I don't want to dismiss him without that chance to meet in person, but after the writer...I'm concerned.

Is it only US who knows boundaries matter? I think a lot of it is many of us have spent decades working to understand ourselves, basic psychology, assertiveness, boundaries, emotions. And most of the men my age whom I meet have had active lives, including wives...that have somehow not required of them the deep, deep dives that we talk about here.

It doesn't monsterize them. But it does mean in a lot of cases we don't share some basic concepts that have been so hard won.

I ain't giving up on my quest. But it does occur to me now and then to ask myself whether I should.

xo
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Hops, perhaps your new job could be accompanying people on dates and telling them whether or not they should arrange a second one.  Sheesh.  Writer guy sounds like a very difficult chap to be around - charm really does disarm people and for you to see through that and say no thanks has obviously really bothered him.  It frightens me when people like that attack because you didn't do what they wanted.  And he probably isn't used to anyone seeing through him - I bet most people focus on the charm and nothing else.  What you wrote back to him was beautiful, though, very polite and thoughtful.  You did well not to write back and give him what for - your own charm offensive is the path to take, in this case.

I think I've missed a chunk with the professor, though (I'm not caught up on threads yet).  What was it that he didn't hear?  I can understand you feeling anxious about it - very natural after the writer chap.  It is unsettling when people react like that.  I think you will handle the situation well.  Although - if you need to, perhaps you could postpone for a while to let the angry email abate a bit?  Sometimes it's better to just get on with things, sometimes we need a bit of time,  You'll know what to do.

As for boundaries - I think for many years (in the UK, anyway) it was very normal to raise children to do as they were told without question, not to answer back, not to have opinions and so on.  It was also very normal for everything to revolve around the man, as the main breadwinner.  When I look back I can't think of a single female relative, young or old, who had good boundaries.  Nor can I think of a man who respected them.  The situation was very much that the woman needed to be fluid and fit in around what the man wanted and, indeed, for many years, getting married was all a woman could do.  There was no glittering career path or living alone, or raising children alone.  It was a form of social suicide.  So I think perhaps there are just generations of people who weren't raised with boundaries as part of their lives.  I see it all the time in friends now; confident, intelligent, middle aged women who can't say no, who feel obligated to do what everyone else wants, who will tie themselves in knots to impress a new boyfriend because they don't want to be on their own.

So yes, I do think boundaries tend to only be a feature for those who've fought for them, worked at them and for whom they become so important. I can think of a thousand examples of times I've excused bad behaviour, ignored my instincts, put up with goodness only knows what, because I didn't think I had a right to insist on a certain level of behaviour and walk away if I didn't get it.  Subservience is a word that comes to mind

Anyway - I think you've done well to see through writer man so quickly and I hope professor turns out to be a nice evening, if nothing else xx

[Hopalong]

Me, too.
My (mild) perfesser concern was just that I'd expressed that I didn't like to correspond much before meeting, and he just kept rolling with more emails and questions (plus demands to see my writing). It didn't feel malevolent, just oblivious. He's in perfesser mode and obviously accustomed to expressing himself regardless.

Nice that he's expressing such eagerness but also, not. I do not want fantasy and correspondence before I meet someone in person. And half of them do not get it or ignore what I've said.

But I'm going to try to reserve judgement and remain open until I have a reason to push back. Jeez, he's a runaway train of poetry-praise and that's pleasant (he teaches poetry sometimes in his literature courses). But I'm sensing the contrast between being a successful scholar and having spent decades struggling in the real world as I have. He's clearly been in a bubble for a loooooooooong time.

Still. His charm just might be natural and non manipulative. Remains to be seen. And I should have faith in myself that I'll know how to assess it once we meet.

Wow. All this feels like WORK!

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Bleck, the thought of responding to the writer's nutso outburst is screwing my face up, my ears are popping.  I don't think I would have responded.  I don't think I would have invited another word from him.  I believe I would have recoiled, like I was taking my hand out of a fire.

And sometimes it feels like I've had my hand in a fire, and it remembers that fire intimately.  Like it was just yesterday it was sizzling, and I couldn't get it out.... couldn't get OUT of a dangerous marriage situation, couldn't get safe, or keep my children safe.

So no.... I can't for a second stomach entitled, controlling male behavior towards women.  He's shown you who he is, and he's not a nice guy.  He's likely everything you fear he is.  My father used to say...
"think of the worst it can be, double it, then assume it's worse."

I think my father was very intuitive. 

About the professor.... his marching on with written correspondence, when you're requested a meeting before it continues, is a red flag.  I would hope you could address it, ask him if he understood the request, then question why he's been unable to honor that request... then listen to what he says BEFORE the face to face. 

Somehow it feels like he's a child, unable to understand, or answer for himself.  Is that how it feels to you, Hops?

In any case, he sharing high praise for your writing, and eager for your company.  I think he should be, and that you'll be as interesting face to face as you were in writing.  Enjoy the date, but remember that first red flag.  Don't explain it away.  He's a professor, yes, but he's intelligent, and a mature human being.

Don't let... "he's a professor type" be the first excuse you make for this man, Hops. 

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

Hops, I think it's work too.

And I have enough on my plate to do, figure out, be/become, that I ain't interested in adding even a part-time "job" - or obligation - to my list. Perhaps the price of deciding to put myself (and my greater needs) first is being lonely sometimes. :shrug:

I used to tell Hol: "you have to kiss a lot toads before you find the magic frog"... and from the sounds of things, it still holds true. I can live with the fact that most men haven't done the kinds of deep dives we're familiar with. I can live the fact that their "needs" are so simple, and tend to be more physical than ours; but that means they also have a lot of unaddressed (unrecognized?) emotional needs.

I realize if they've made it to 60, and are still that way - then, nothing I can do or be will change that or educate him. So, then the question becomes:

he is the way he IS; can I live with that and be happy with that?

It simplifies the equation for me and atm, I just don't have the energy or emotional space for anything other than some genuine human conversation with some guy. I wouldn't waste my time going to meet him until I had SOME of that conversation FIRST. Just me and my druthers... and lack of trust in the intentions of people I don't really know and my ability to defend myself.

[Hopalong]

the woman needed to be fluid and fit in around what the man wanted

Well put, Tupp. That's female socialization in a nutshell. And attempts to break out of that shell, despite women's progress, can still be ruthlessly punished. I so wish all women and all people of color would form instant solidarity movements, and we'd fix the world. It's frustrating to see "minority" groups compete and battle and blame each other at times, when if they united, everything would change for the better.

I agree that it's tragic, when you meet intelligent capable women who rush to stash their own lights under bushels, they've internalized misogyny so well.

I can't for a second stomach entitled, controlling male behavior towards women.  He's shown you who he is, and he's not a nice guy.  He's likely everything you fear he is.

I hear you, Lighter, and I think you are absolutely right about the writer guy. Thanks for saying this so directly: "He's not a nice guy." I picked up his mystery novel today, flipped through, and realized I couldn't enjoy reading it, knowing what I know about the character of the author. Into the recycling bag it went!

Fortunately, I haven't heard another peep from him, so I don't think I'll have to deal with him any more. And also fortunately, not without a little bit of struggle during our back and forth, I realize I really don't care what he thinks. (About the professor, so far I don't see him as a child...but definitely in a bubble. More tk...)

Perhaps the price of deciding to put myself (and my greater needs) first is being lonely sometimes.

I completely understand this, Amber. And most of the time, you don't sound lonely. Deeply engaged with your daughter, your farm, and some friends. I still hope you'll find new (unmarried and 3D) company sometime IF a time rolls around that you want it. And if you don't find the need becomes compelling enough, well, that's one of the wise things about you...you won't deceive your self about it.

If you were asked, What is the purpose of the farm and all its projects? What would you say?

Time for professor report. He is nice! Good things: He's very warm-hearted, speaks of his family (including mother and sister, crucial) with great affection, loved his parents and siblings and cousins and grew up in security and with copious love and support. Though I fantasized he might be macho since he's from Costa Rica, he was just born there to American parents. Very well to do family so he also grew up with lots of security. I don't know when I've met someone so grounded. Reminds me in one way of my Dad, also from an affluent family, who had the comfort and security that enable him to develop great ease with himself and with others because they always knew without one doubt that they were completely welcome in the world. In my Dad's case, he also had wonderful values and treated everyone else as though they were welcome too, so he was much loved. I have a sense that might be true of the professor too.

Less good things: It may have been nerves (I think I'm the first post-widowhood date, or perhaps the second) but he really really really doesn't seem to be able to stop the intellectualizing. To turn off professor mode and just be in the moment. His head is STUFFED with references and knowledge and names of writers and political figures in so many cultures I lost track. He's clearly a brilliant scholar. So that was both dazzling and frustrating, because he kept cutting me off. Never rudely, just as though he couldn't get out of his own head for very long to focus on my stories. Though he did calm down and listen with feeling when I told him about my D. He spoke several times about how sad it was and how I'm basically alone w/o family. Not with pity but with real empathy...and that's back to what felt good.

He said, I'm looking for friendship, companionship and empathy. That sounds very nice, and we did get along. But I wondered if he meant "and nothing else." In that case, I'd aim for occasional friendship activities, but need to be careful of my heart. He is special enough that I sense it could become more for me.

Big deal. In a year and a half when he retires, he plans to move to the other side of the continent where his sons/grandchildren are. He doesn't know how he'd deal with full retirement (he absolutely loves his work, and is clearly super engaged) and when a friend at a famous university in the Bay area said, then come here and be an adjunct professor! He thought, that's my answer. He's not concerned about income, clearly, but said he doesn't want to be cut off from being surrounded by the young. He loves loves loves teaching and is driven and excited by his work: many books, international travel and speaking engagements, guest lectures, etc.

So, for personal reasons, I do not want to fantasize. But here's one: I could happily live in the Bay area during winter. But I cannot at this point imagine a permanent move. So I might be setting myself up for hurt and loss and feeling uprooted, which I would hate...if I allowed something to grow.

There's definitely a heart-level availability and liking, I on both our parts. But he's a big personality with big plans and I can't see quite how that would affect me.

He said he'd like to see me again and I said okay. We'll make plans later.

I think everything except moving to California felt possible. I'll find out more about how the nonstop professorizing goes. I did gently stop him a couple times and he took it well. I said once wait, let me finish this story. And he said, I talk too much. And I asked, do you mind being halted or reminded? And he goes, No! I said, I think it might be necessary. I think he welcomed it...that he doesn't mean to be a fountain, and has trouble stopping it on his own. But sheesh, that could get a little tiring. At one point he zoomed back into scholar mode and I said, I like your mind but I've heard so much about your intellectual life, and I would like to know who you are as a person. He went, oh, personally? And then told me about his childhood, family, marriages. (#1 ended in divorce, 20 some years, sounded quite unhappy. #2 he adored and was very happy with for 14 years until her death.)

I can't know much more until we've seen each other again. And I'm aware of a little vulnerability here. I wonder how he'll respond to some more direct questions, that I'd like to ask him next time. Like, if you became involved with a woman here who was important to you, would that have any effect on your move? Would you be open to a bi-coastal life for a while? And, do you have any interest in marrying again? (Or maybe it'll be better for me just to speak about myself, as in: although I'd love to be a snowbird and travel, I have deep roots where I am that matter to me. And...(I'd say this soon, pre-attachment: I do want to marry again. It's a dream I never realized and I want a chance for that level of happiness. I don't want to wake up when I'm 80 and realize I'm alone for good.)

So, that's that so far. Very interesting and kind of exciting evening, but...much at stake, maybe. BTW, he's cute, too. A little pudgy but very relaxed about how we are...I do find him attractive. Even talked about my thinning hair which didn't seem to deter him at all. I told him I was going to be bald and that I was happy he isn't tall. He laughed. Seemed really, truly focused on character and human things.

Plus he knows Henry Louis Gates. I'm a fangirl.

Thanks for reading,
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Hops, he sounds nice   It sounds like a nice evening and he sounds like good company.  A friend of mine is with a guy who reels off endless facts and figures about all sorts of things - mind like a computer.  When I first met him it really grated on me, but he's so lovely and such a sweet, kind hearted soul that I find it endearing now.  My friend cuts across him when it's getting too much, as you did with your chap, and in the early days she felt a bit worried that she might become more like his mum (because of having to 'manage' him like that) but as time went on she found all his lovely traits really outweighed that.  Conversely, he gives her a bit of a boot up the backside because she's a real procrastinator and spends a lot of time thinking about what she ought to be doing whilst doing something else, lol, so he gives her a bit of a practical poke when necessary and it works well for them.  I understand your anxieties about the what ifs but am also glad that he seems so nice and I'm hoping date number two will be a nice one as well xx

[sKePTiKal]

That sounds like fun Hops! I understand your focus on marriage, but in the meantime, why not just enjoy being around such an interesting person?

OH... and I think you're best off to talk about your feelings, what you want ultimately, from the "I" position. It won't spook guys as quickly, and helps remind ourselves, that the dance is also about us ladies getting what we want, too.