Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Relationship/s
lighter:
--- Quote from: Hopalong on September 19, 2019, 09:51:59 PM ---
I remember thinking, I'm just going to relax and be myself this evening, and I did enjoy it. He was calmer too. And served me another awesome meal, and we drank wine on the deck at sunset. He'd had a tough week at the U. and it was nice to chill out together.I'm so glad to read that, Hops: )
Lighter, your scathing but truthful depiction of his infantile side really sobered me. I'[m working on finding a balance with my tone, and words. I was never listened to, in my family, so things sometimes come out with more "truth" than absolutely necessary. It was reality and a kind of stem-level depiction of dependency. I honestly feel that everyone has some stem-level behaviors.... shadow side....when our brains switch into survival mode.... it's a very helpless place to be, IME. Not my favorite moments with him but I'm still drawing those boundaries. You have to do it to stay level, Hops. You staying level is the first step to his finding his way, and learning how to get control of his emotions.... I think. Pretty comfortably. I enjoyed a friend's company downtown this evening, and then my own later, just watching the golden light and happy people enjoying the amazing weather, and pooch. I sat over my dinner at a favorite cafe and just savored it all. I had a lovely day downtown with youngest dd yesterday afternoon... a lot like that. I smiled, and felt really really happy... and noticed it! I'm glad you did too: )M had mentioned what he was having for dinner and I'd had no expectation of us being together tonight, and later he still had a way of upping the ante, conveying anxiety--a later call to double check about the next two evenings, etc etc. The man does CLUTCH. Somehow he's going to have to notice what he's doing, then learn to apply some countermeasures to calm himself. You can't do it for him. He constantly makes the next plan and the next plan and the next, and I react by refusing to firm up all the details for casual get-togethers until the day of, because I feel hemmed in by having absolutely encounter on the calendar. My mom was that way, not to that level, but it clashed with my desire to have some flexibility with my schedule months down the road, so I know what you mean. I'm noticing my desire to advocate on his behalf... not sure what that's about, but I don't think giving in to his neediness is how to calm him down. I think that would lead to escalating behaviors, truthfully. Formal things or things that include others, sure, we can book those. But on a day to day basis I want the freedom to retreat and he'll have to get used to it. I'm trying to work on just maintaining my own security/maturity and will find out over time if his improves. I liked what you said about spinning. Good term for it. It makes my heart sad for M, bc he's suffering in those times, IMO. And it's destructive in the relationship. You might have to figure out how to live with it, or continue pressing him to look at it with a good T, IMO. It's a lifelong learners club, unfortunately. He's open to learning, or he's not is how I see it... at this moment anyway. Sounds like you have more space around your discomfort with this side of him. That certainly bodes well for the relationship: )
I do echo your caution over marrying him, without SEEING a definitive path to true change, then ending up the wifey with him dropping the T, and settling right back into old patterns with zero motivation to change. You have to gently guide him on that journey, NOW, IMO. He certainly seems motivated to please you. I just hope he doesn't end up resenting you for it down the road.
That's one reason I want the T to take the lead, and say the harder things so you don't have to.
You shouldn't have to, Hops.
hugs and thanks again,
Hops
--- End quote ---
Hopalong:
Thanks, guys, so much.
Lighter, thanks for the encouragement. I agree with your insights. Only caveat is, I have no sense that I control what M discusses or takes up with his T. I agree with you what would be good for him to do there, but it's his independent, private therapy, so I keep a respectful difference. (If anybody tried telling me what I "should" discuss with my T that would be a boundary bash.) He'll share what he wants to but I don't expect access. That said, I'm aware that a few things he's said voluntarily about his T make me feel very good about his T! I just think his T is not a service provider to ME, just to M. They'll find their way. I can "gently guide" but truly do not want to set myself up as his teacher, leader or instructor. I think that's toxic to a relationship of equals, as tempting as it is for someone soaked in therapy for years.
What I could indicate some day if needed is, M--I need to know that you are committed to staying in therapy. I think I'd be comfortable saying that, but not setting M's specific goals for him. He has to set his own. I do see him as open to learning and change, but agree with your caution about marriage before I'm sure he's doing this for himself too, not just to keep me. I actually think he sees the benefits, but time will tell.
I'll certainly keep on mentioning anxiety, and my own observations on what I think it looks like in his behavior with me.
Thanks, Tupp -- I'm glad I'm not running, too. It's a relief as things resettle, and each time I freak out, it seems to take less time for us to restore love and equilibrium. If those prevail over time (it's only been 8 months together, and despite M's sense of urgency--we could dieeeee, any minute!--I own my own clock and evaluate my own risk tolerance). For a lifetime decision like that, I'll take whatever time I need and he'll adapt to that, or not. (I think he will.) I don't want to take tooooo long, but more confidence will play out.
He knows that I'm not moving in together or marrying before the house decision is clear. He's putting up both his properties in Costa Rica for sale, not just the condo. I've noticed that news and it's connected to his commitment to getting us a house here without delay when the right one appears. (So far, nothing on the cool old one. We're going to go find out who was the lawyer on the sisters' trust so we can send a polite inquiry there, wondering if it's genuinely available or if s/he can get a message to them since we've had no response. There may be family ambivalence.)
Amber, you're so right that anniversary reactions are real. And I think M is rushing that into the "done" box too fast, just as he tends to rush everything. Doesn't matter. And her "blessing" was nice in that it freed him to date, but really doesn't have much to do with how grief behaves. He'll just have to experience that and figure it out for himself, I think. Not my job to guide/direct that either.
BIG grateful hugs to everyone! I mean, watch out I don't crack your ribs!!
love
Hops
lighter:
::smacking forehead::.
Sorry. I forgot you aren't thinking about a shared T. I lost my mind, and forgot.
Lighter
.
Hopalong:
No worries, Lighter!
And...ugh.
This evening began with him asking me repeatedly if I wanted to learn how to cook his special black beans tomorrow. I said no thanks. He brought it up again and again and again and I finally yelled at him. First time ever. I just blew...M, what is wrong with you! I said no I don't want to!
All downhill from there. Dinner was nice-ish but the tension kept burbling up again. Best word I can think of is perseverate. He does that. Maybe it's a brain or ADHD thing. I have no idea but it bugs the hell out of me.
I tried to explain how I was trying NOT to feel anxiety over getting the monitor put back on, and that his repeated messages about "call me after The Procedure" and "be sure to let me know how it goes with the monitor appointment" and "I'm calling you about that this evening even though you've said you'll have nothing to report." He said it was all about his empathy, knowing I'd been scared about the stroke. I DID tell him that in general, having had a stroke had added concerns to my life. But I had also specifically declined ABOUT THREE TIMES to "report on the appointment" in which I wasn't seeing a doctor, just having the lab tech stick a new (same model) patch/recording pendant on my chest. It didn't merit his Oh this is a crisis! drama and that drama increased my stress and made his urgency to involve himself (boundary issue) MY problem. I just felt he was offloading his anxiety onto me, and it actually increased my stress over the appointment, when I'd been quite calm about it beforehand.
Maybe he just wasn't understanding what I meant. The gulf is that when he repeats and repeats and repeats I feel badgered. And he acts very frantic just saying hello or going to the car with the dog or whatever, it's always a clown-car thing, and it's not fun.
Afterward, he said as he brought me home, and it felt like a test or challenge..."Do I have your permission to escort you to your door?" I said no thanks, I don't feel like being escorted. (My door is 20 feet from the car.) And he said, That means I'm making an offer and you are refusing it. I said, No, I just answered simply, No thanks I don't feel like being escorted. And he persisted...it means you are refusing my gesture. And I said, I'm just saying the truth. And it was STUPID. But I refused not to say my truthful answer to his question. He offered, I politely declined. I guess he wants me to go through symbolic gestures of agreement even when I don't agree? Not able to do that. (Is it SUBMISSION he wants from me? Fat chance.)
Then he said, which he's said before, This means you are resistant. What the f*** does THAT mean? He seems to want to interpret and define what I think and feel in negative ways right now, and I'm not interested in hanging about to listen to it. And to cap it off, as we sat in the car as I dug for my keys, he brought it up AGAIN: "Oh, I'll be preparing the beans tomorrow if you'd like to come over and learn how to do it...."
I couldn't believe it. I just said, why would you do that? Why bring up the same issue we squabbled about at the beginning of this evening? Why repeat it again? He just stared ahead. I asked, it is a way of expressing some kind of anger, indirectly? He said no, frustration.
Whatever. It triggered my upset all over again. Felt really fed up. So I said I don't want to connect tomorrow, I need a day of radio silence [thanks, Tupp--perfect term]without voicemails or calls or emails. And I'll look forward to our plan to get together on Sunday. (We're going to his departmental picnic.)
So that's where we are right now. He literally cannot take in the information I give him when I'm saying No or ask him to stop repeating and repeating and repeating something I've already said No to. I am going to have to be MUCH more direct, and it's not fun. It clearly turns into some kind of stupid struggle over what love is and what the "rules" are...and he gets snide and judgey and analyses me negatively and I'm not having fun. Or I didn't tonight (for really the first time).
I guess I'm analysing him negatively too. I'll watch for that. I'm not sure he does know what empathy is (or he's so defensive he can't hear me). The man cannot take a hint, so I'll have to be more blunt. And then he'll get all hurt and passive-aggressive, is my guess. We'll see.
Sigh. Hope this is just "first fight" syndrome and not a sign of deterioration to come. It felt awful. I'm sick about it. I'm seeing a side of him that really concerns me and he absolutely can't or won't listen calmly and try to understand. He throws up defensive shields of word-snow that are nearly impenetrable.
At one point, he started saying You always... and I said, always and never accusations always put the listener on the defensive. He said no no, these are just neutral "filler" words, just conversational. And if you studied linguistics, you'd understand this... And I said, they're not neutral at all, etc. And I'm NOT studying linguistics.
God. I hate arguing. I dunno. I think it is time for couples therapy, maybe. Because if he really can't understand me or deal with his knee-jerk emotional-circuit-blowing I think we're in trouble.
I think I need to go back to work and end the pleasant honeymoon fantasies about life being all sorted out now. This does NOT feel "sorted out." Maybe it's a normal dating-crisis that couples experience as major commitments loom (I think Judith Sills referred to that pattern in A Fine Romance, CB...). I'll have to re-read it.
Thanks for listening to me vent, friends. Sorry about the hissy fit. Maybe I just can't handle a relationship after so long on my own.
love
Hops
Twoapenny:
Hopsie, I think you most definitely can handle a relationship after all your years alone :) But maybe it's too soon for M? Just at the first anniversary so his wife had only passed a very short time before you met. Huge amount of grief and processing for him to get through - the joy of a new relationship distracts from that. But also brings additional stresses whilst getting to know someone, plus stressful incidents like your health situation, selling houses and so on, as well as that big trip you had together. He's had a huge amount happen in a very short space of time (not least going into therapy, which can bring up all sorts of resistance and old issues as well). All of the things you describe about him (that annoy you) all sound anxiety and stress based to me. Maybe he's trying to do too much too soon and needs some time alone to centre himself as a single man, a widow, a retiree before he gets in to another serious relationship? Could be he needs to do a lot more of what you're doing - alone time, thinking time, breathing space? I don't know how you'd work that practically? But I think it is more about what he needs to do, rather than what you need to do, if that makes sense? (I'm not suggesting you end it, by the way. But perhaps the brakes need to be put on to give the whirlwind time to settle?) xx
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