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Twoapenny:

--- Quote from: Hopalong on October 25, 2021, 06:01:54 PM ---PS Tupp -- That must have hurt SO much. To be an emotional nurse to a man you carried love and hopes about, help him heal emotionally by being so open to his needs and sharing so much time ... and then find out he's all ready to go forth -- to someone else.

I'm sending him a flabby arse-kicking. I'm sorry that happened to you. No wonder you're a romance-realist. I'm taking notes.

hugs
Hops

--- End quote ---

He's still a good friend, Hopsie, I think I'll always love him - when Covid started it was immediately him I thought of and wanted to be with - "if we're all going to die in the next few weeks then I want to spend those weeks with you" kind of stuff.  He didn't do anything wrong.  I thought if I was good, kind, helpful, thoughtful and put his needs before my own - as I'd always been taught to, in every situation and with every person - then I'd be rewarded, and my reward would be him.  And that's not how it works.  He and I are good friends, he cares for me, a lot, but when it comes to romance, his interests lie elsewhere.  He never made any indication it was anything other than that, there were no false promises, it was my mind that had been so drilled to believe I must be good at all times and that would lead to good things.  In his mind, I was being a good friend to him (which I was), but he wasn't looking for any more than that in me.  We all love having good friends, right?  That's why, truthfully, I wouldn't aim to be a good friend to the Scot.  I think you'll be looking for signs and tiny nuggets that he's into more than that (like you did with M), distracted by him (so not focusing so much on meeting someone else) and getting your heart broken just a little bit each time that you wish it was more than friendship and he'll be oh so happy because he gets this lovely, intelligent, vibrant, engaging woman he can enjoy meals and days out with whilst he (wisely) guards his own heart.  " - Helping him - as just a friend - restraining my own dreams - as just a friend - helping him gain perspective - as just a friend" set my codependency bells off.  This is a huge undertaking for a guy you've been out with twice and who has done absolutely nothing for you, as a friend.  And no need for him to, because he hardly knows you, and you hardly know him.  I know you enjoyed both dates but truthfully, we can all turn in a good show for a couple of hours at a time.  There could be a complete and utter arsehole lurking beneath that benevolent Scottish exterior :)  And of course, there might not be, he could be exactly as he presents but I think you might do well to think about how best to help yourself, live your dreams and gain your own perspective, you know?  And whether 'being his friend' is going to help you do any of that?

Re being permanently single, I wouldn't mean it to sound like I think you should accept it and give up any hope of anything different, I just wondered if a change of focus in your mind might help - if there were any practical steps you could take to make the prospect less scary?  Like looking around again at living arrangements (help nearby sort of places), working on a health plan that can be adhered to over the winter months (group dog walking or something?  Outside, lots of fresh air, with similarly Covid conscious people?).  A new hobby, something practical and creative, maybe, where you could meet other people (again, Covid in mind).  Things like that.  I just wondered if there was a third option in between 'meeting Mr Right' and 'alone forever', both of which are very real possibilities, I'm not suggesting they aren't.  Nor am I suggesting a sort of false happiness about being alone when you don't want to be (you know how much I hate all this false positivity stuff :) ).  But whether there's a practical plan that just might keep your mind busy enough that pining for what might be with the Scot doesn't become your main focus over the winter.

Anyway, lecture over :)  I don't mean any of that in a critical, unkind way.  You're a wonderful person, Hopsie, warm hearted and caring, intelligent, emotionally aware, you've lived many lives and learned to cope with a lot of pain along the way.  You are sensitive and romantic, and prone to writing the story of how it's all going to go, and that's a good thing - the world would be a happier, safer place with more people like you in it.  But I also think it's sensible to be aware of all of that and not ask yourself to do things that you're probably not able to do without damaging yourself a bit or giving yourself a lot of extra work that quite likely will only benefit someone else.  He has told you, clearly, that he's not looking for anything other than friendship.  Which politely translates into "I'm not interested", because we aren't friends with people we've met twice.  We build friendships with people over a long period of time, and experiences together, and tough times when we see how they react and respond.  Anything before that is just passing time over a coffee, you know?

I am sending protective vibes from across the pond and I hope you will put you, and the reality of your own situation, first, and not put all your focus on what would be best for him just now xx

Editing to add  I do understand that ADD makes certain things difficult/impossible to do so suggestions might not be ADD friendly - but wondered if it would spark an idea that is ADD friendly if that makes sense? xx

Hopalong:

--- Quote ---- "Helping him - as just a friend - restraining my own dreams - as just a friend - helping him gain perspective - as just a friend" set my codependency bells off.  This is a huge undertaking for a guy you've been out with twice and who has done absolutely nothing for you, as a friend.  And no need for him to, because he hardly knows you, and you hardly know him.
--- End quote ---

My CoD bells went off at my quote too, Tupp. It was a partial summary of both my instinctive desire to make things okay for him (with unrealistic hopes that'd he'd also eventually do the same for me) plus what friends were recommending in general -- me being a certain way for him. Including poet. Not that the idea of helping him or restraining myself for that purpose would be categorically wrong -- it's really what love is -- but the importance of your last sentence. THAT's the "reality is my friend" piece. Reality still IS my friend, and I don't want to over-fantasize about how a friendship would go, any more than how a romantic relationship would go. One way or another, I've got to teach myself to fill my head with more reality and less butterflies and unicorns.

I feel better this morning. Less ashamed of having had sudden strong feelings for a stranger. I woke up thinking about (again) re-engaging in my own world and life and got my mind focused on that. Kind of "back in my body", kwim? Feel a little embarrassed at everything I spewed out here, so thank you very much for your kindness and perspective. I feel as though I got back to the pier.

The checking out new living arrangements still isn't on. I know all the "elder alternatives" in the area and cannot afford any other option at the moment than living in my home alone. I don't want to move out of my sweet house anyway if it's not absolutely necessary. I COULD explore, once supply chains reopen, the faint (very faint) possibility of adding a small extension with a BR and bath, which would open up the chance of a housemate (or even carer one day). BUT that would take half or likely most of my savings, which are the only bulwark between me and not having any daily help if/when I'm too frail to manage everything on my own.

I have PLENTY to do all winter even if most of the human stuff is on Zoom. I absolutely need more structure and an exercise plan. (I've got one, need to DO it.) I have things in my home to tend to that will boost my self-esteem like crazy once I do them. I have a freaking novel to write. I'm a lot more involved in church stuff again and overall, I like it. I get to act out my own values and interact with good people while doing so. Right now, they include:
--leading a women's Covenant Group, which eases isolation and stimulates the mind for everybody
--a new role as one of the leaders of a refugee project. I do all the communications. We're supporting a family of Afghan refugees arriving soon from a military base south of here. They're in quarantine because somebody got measles, but once that passes. A refugee organization will secure their apartment but we will be fundraising to cover rent, collecting furniture and household goods and clothes and a storage unit for donations, hunting down various things they'll need, etc. Some of our group will be directly contacting the the family (or couple or individual, we don't know yet)  on a regular basis. They will help them navigate health care, drivers' licenses, schooling, employment, etc. And offer them regular contacts and mentoring to reduce their shock and help them acclimate and hopefully thrive in time. I'll write it all up and keep the congregation updated, create new appeals or drives, etc.
--a new proposal I call Elder Net which I've written up and met with the minister about. Don't know how fast it'll get going but it's a gap that I've cared about since long before I became older myself. The church has a patchwork of old people looking out for older people. The church itself does a ritual elder dinner once a year. It's very nice, but doesn't cover the needs of people like those I worked for before the pandemic. I'm talking about creating a program specifically for isolated OLD-elders with no involved family nearby. Wrote up a long list of what I'd observed about how many (and these were all folks who COULD afford to be in a "senior community" of some kind--it's a well-off congregation) just give up on the congregation when they're old enough to: have trouble hearing, not drive, deal with pain, have trouble with technology, inadequate diet, a host of stuff. And my point to the minister/church is: We take special focused care of toddlers and babies and don't resent their vulnerability or need, but when folks get OLD-old, we let them quietly slip between the cracks of the community's attention and some not only live alone but deal with pain and isolation and debility on their own. OLD-olds are inconvenient and involve work and if we are (as a spiritual community) what we say we are, I say we are neglecting them. The minister didn't disagree and said she'd take it further and see what we could start up if I'd remain involved (I said absolutely). I want MULTIgenerational involvement. Teenage crews can rake leaves, cut grass, walk dogs. Other folks could "adopt" an old-elder to visit regularly and check in with, etc. Some of that does get done anyway for many of them; it's the few I worry about (especially since my friend who'd volunteered for years and worked his ass off for the church died alone in his apartment and wasn't missed for days).
--a big local social justice organization we're part of...I'm a "network member" which involves messaging and meetings and again updates to the congregation. I don't enjoy it as much as the other things but it's literally good work that makes a difference to local poor people so I'm continuing it year over year.

So there's all that. It's not as though my community life has to lack meaning. If I focused more on what other humans need and less on myself, life would be better. For me, it's pretty simple but I need more WILL. Keep at my health, care for my home (downsize and declutter), and WRITE MY BOOK.

Thank you again, Tupp. That was a bracing and very helpful post and I'm really touched you "entered in" to what I've been doing and what I could do instead.

Greatful hugs, and apologies to all for my meltdown!
Hops

Twoapenny:
Aw, Hops, I love the sound of all those projects!  Especially the Elder Net one.  I think sometimes things like that just need someone with the oomph to organise them.  There's often lots of people willing to help, and I think sometimes people don't even know that there's an elderly chap who only lives ten minutes away and never sees anyone - we tend to stay in our own bubbles, don't we.  I love the thought of you matching up people who can help with people who need it.  And you're so right about the babies and children thing.  Why do we just ignore and neglect our elders?  It's horrible.

I completely understand money being an issue and it's a real tough one if you have to decide between getting physical changes and adaptations done and paying someone to come in and do other things you can't do.  Also makes me mad that people have to make those choices and we aren't living in a way where you'd know that you'd be looked after one way or another.

Please don't feel embarrassed or feel you need to apologise (she says, having just posted that your feelings are your feelings and you shouldn't disregard them ;)  Lol, you know what I mean, though).  You know it's safe to say things on here that you might not elsewhere and it won't come back to bite you on the arse :) I get that same instinctive desire to make things okay for people and there are a lot of people who genuinely need and would appreciate that help.  But I just know with me I give away too much of myself and I think you're similar (and all of those projects you're involved in sound like a lot of helping people anyway).

I'm glad you're feeling a bit better/more clear headed today and I am continuing to send my 'send Mr Hops in Hopsie's direction' vibes in your general direction.  And yes, get that book written :)  Lol xx

sKePTiKal:
Hops, I wonder if the negative image of "single old-age" is something conditioned into us. I think we assume that it's lonely, boring & pitiful... at least, I think this is part of our mental picture about it sometimes. You can make your life what you want it to be, you know? And you're definitely doing that, from your description.

As for your dream of finding Mr. Right... I don't think you need to give it up. Owning that dream and continuing to pursue it (both with the Scot and the possible others later) is still a worth while endeavor. If you try friendship and aren't able to manage the desire for more... just tell him. Own it and at that time, make a decision about how/how not you want to continue.

It will be OK Hops. At our age, we don't need the angst or drama or games of our earlier days... and can still have those dreams and even fantasies... and hope for their fulfillment. We can break ALL the rules about relationships we want to - and design them in a way that's suitable for both participants.

Hopalong:
Thanks, Amber. I appreciate the encouragement AND the caution.

The "lonely pitiful older age" stuff is based on too much witnessing of those feelings in others nearing the end of their life. It's really daunting but I agree I shouldn't succumb.

Truly, though I have a few good friends, I think the tunnel only narrows from here. Having zero family or children to care about me, etc., is a big part of it. Friends do for sure, but even they can't step in and transform my life.

I have to.
The issue is that I deal with lots of fear about whether I'm able.

I don't like how weak I feel way too often. Working on it with T, but boy is it slow.
(I left my will to thrive on the curb after my D left my life. I KNOW it's not right.)

hugs
Hops

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