Author Topic: Relationship/s  (Read 156294 times)

Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #600 on: October 20, 2020, 01:51:35 PM »
Hops, I've got friends from childhood (and a couple of ex boyfriends) that I have nothing in common with any more.  Zilch, zero, less than nothing, absolutely no common ground.  But because, once upon a time, they were hugely important to me and I loved spending time with them, and I have some great memories, I still check in on them from time to time, face to face (pre pandemic) or on the phone.  An hour's enough; by the time we've done catch up chit chat we've nothing else to talk about and I definitely wouldn't talk to any of them the way I do to you guys on here.  But I still want some connection with them, because it was just there once and it didn't go away completely.  So I don't think there's anything wrong with you and M having a coffee/chat about a book/what did you think about the news re such and such and him being that kind of friend.  I think maybe if you're able to accept that he won't be someone you talk to about feelings - but could be someone you talk to about other stuff, for a limited time so his endless monologues don't melt your ears - then maybe you could have that kind of friendship.  Maybe more like a book club friend than a best friend.  Especially over pandemic time as you know he's taking precautions as seriously as you.  Maybe you can just enjoy the bits about him that you do like and almost think about time with him being like watching something you like on TV or listen to on the radio?  Just a nice way to pass a bit of time and you can just go home if he starts going on too much.  And quite possibly if he annoys you a few more times the desire to spend time with him will pass on its own anyway.  I think it's alright to just take the bits that work for you and not worry too much about anything else xx

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #601 on: October 20, 2020, 07:05:13 PM »
Thank you, (((Tupp))).

This is my challenge.

if you're able to accept that he won't be someone you talk to about feelings - but could be someone you talk to about other stuff, for a limited time

Funny how when you hit 70 it seems like a more weighty evaluation! Like, how many more chances will I have before I dissolve into a solitary puddle of aloneness like other oldsters (family free) who live alone? And like, should I ignore the hurtful deafness and just stay connected because superficial social sharing is still possible? I need to suck it up and get on with positive things.

I just think this is my personal growth challenge right now and I can embrace it for good or ill, and begin to better understand what it means to say goodbye, close a door, etc. Or whether compromises and half measures make sense.

I'm happy I'm talking to my T tomorrow. And y'all here, ALWAYS.

hugs
Hops
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Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #602 on: October 21, 2020, 02:15:47 AM »
I hear ya, Hopsie!  I do get it.  I've don't make a big effort with a lot of people because I've found that  most people I know vanish when we're having a crisis, and/or make zero effort to stay in touch.  It bothers me; I'd rather have good, strong, meaningful connections than put energy into superficial sociability.  You'll know which option makes more sense for you - the odd chat that you know won't meet all of your needs, but might meet some (especially as pandemic has reduced options all round) - or that may be more energy than it's worth and M becomes someone on the Christmas card list.  And you know, I don't think you have to make a firm choice necessarily - if a chat with M takes your mind off being alone for a bit perhaps just for now, it's worth the time.  But maybe feeling low after you see him means it's too much to cope with as there are fewer ways to alleviate that just now.

I do understand your feelings about being alone for good.  I'm not fifty yet but the lack of family, friends, partner, pension and so on whirs around in my head so I can only imagine that becomes more pressing as we go forward.  It's harder just now as making new connections is even more difficult and of course, a situation like this brings being alone into sharp focus.  Not much else to focus on at the minute.  But your decisions are always good ones so I don't think it's something you need to reach a conclusion on quickly.  You can take your time; your boundaries are good, you know you make the best choices for you.  One thing that does spring to mind is that I know I've had relationships in the past - romantic and friendship wise - where I've been more in love with how I think it could be than the reality of the person in front of me, if that makes any sense? xx xx

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #603 on: October 21, 2020, 09:36:18 AM »
Makes perfect sense, Tupp.

I know I felt sick last night, as though I'd lost my dignity by wobbling and it was humiliating in a way. I left it that he can contact me if he'd like to come by sometime and we'd see. Sensing my vulnerability he immediately was all gracious. I'm unsure what I'm doing so I'll work hard to sort it out with T today.

A bit of more clear news. Another N, who was a "friend" back when I found this house--an architect/developer guy who was really massively N and went to my church....anyway, he made me a host of promises back then about work connections and supervising/checking on my renovations and I treated both like a lifeline. Turned out it was all talk, he went off on a business trip and never followed through with either. I was very hurt and angry.

He wrote me the other day that he'd dreamed about me and wanted to know if he could make amends and we could be friends again. I said of course I forgave you, then set up a Zoom date...but then reconsidered and yesterday wrote him I'd thought it over and realized it wasn't a good time for me to do that, emotional plate full.

It was difficult because I AM lonely, and he is eager. But I think I've saved myself unease and who knows what by not telling myself I can "handle" N-people.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #604 on: October 21, 2020, 09:56:45 AM »
Well done on popping the N ex friend back in his box, Hopsie.  Sometimes it's best just to not go back down that road.  It's good that he's realised he did something wrong but yep, looking out for number one is very essential, even more so at the minute than at other times.

I do think you're being too hard on yourself where M is concerned, though.  It's not undignified to desire company, comfort, conversation, a nice meal!  And there was a lot about M that was good and enjoyable so having a notion that being friends together might be possible isn't at all ridiculous.  It does sound like it might be too difficult to do the friends thing but there's nothing at all wrong with trying it or wanting to have him in your life in some way - or in just checking in on him when you feel like it.  It doesn't have to be anything, he can just be someone in your periphery.  I think the current situation is making everything harder so I think being nice to yourself about where M does or doesn't fit into your life is essential right now (and hopefully T will say something similar). xx

sKePTiKal

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #605 on: October 21, 2020, 01:00:09 PM »
Well, I'm sure you'll unpack all this better with your T Hops.

I do hear ya about the aging... in my case, I'm second-guessing my plan to only keep those strong connections maintained in my life. The idea of having a larger group is more attractive than it used to be; more a community. Activities that I can participate in - or not - as I want to. Yes, it's helpful to have Hol and her retinue around. Often, I end up just feeling like the "Mom"... and not just one of a group of people hanging out. It's a bit easier when it's just "all girlz".

My "isolation" isn't going to go away with Covid. It's a fact of life, living here. Most of the time, that's still how I prefer it. But I think the closer we get to winter, the more I'm going to approach the neighbors on my road. Most won't shut the door in my face, if I have fresh-baked goodies in my hands. ;) I've finally met them all - and while we mostly keep to ourselves, we're all involved in keeping the road passable throughout the year and helping out on the odd thing that might come up. A tree that needs cut up for instance.

Eh, but that's not what resonated from your post Hops. I definitely hear the tangled feelings involved and the not wanting to walk away from any possible connection. As if it always means the closing of the door is forever. Does it really HAVE to be forever? Like N friend - who realized an apology was in order; maybe the N-force isn't as strong in him as it appeared back then... if he realizes an apology is in order. Maybe he DOES have an ulterior motive, too. But unless we take the chance of interacting in those situations and trust ourselves to discern better; communicate more clearly; and be strong enough to be a little vulnerable than we might have in the past... we won't know. (Sorry; professorial we again...)

Is that what one SHOULD do? Who's checking our performance? Giving us a grade? What really is one risking? Even if ultimately, it turns out to be a disappointment or waste of time??

These are all rhetorical questions; I ask them of myself too. The older I get, the more I feel that I've earned the permission to just fly by the seat o' my pants - and if I get burned or hurt - well, so what? It's no different than living life at 20, when we THINK we know everything - and then life teaches us, uh..... no, smartypants, you DON'T know everything. Living requires a lot more than just self-protection and boundaries. As Mike said once, fences need to have gates in them.

Maybe I'll find I can't STAND one of my neighbors, but I'll never know unless I take the initiative to get to know them better. It's not like I'm going to tell them my life's story all at once, from the get-go. Does it feel natural to this content introvert? Oh hell no... but then, do I want to consign myself only to the relative safety of my comfort zone or can I do something that just doesn't come natural to me - but feels right?

And all of that might just be irrelevant to you Hops. You simply might not have had enough healing time and don't feel ready yet. That's perfectly valid. Healing doesn't have to equal isolation or cocooning ALL the time. There are other ways. Only you can know what's the right thing at the right time for you. Just make sure you're not imiting your options or your self as you're about to come up for air from the past year. That one still shows up to remind me, too sometimes.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #606 on: October 31, 2020, 06:40:58 AM »
Tupp, thank you -- a lot -- for your consistent understanding about the web of attachment, how it's made up of a lot of mixed feelings and not black and white. You're right, and you've always been sensitive to keeping open to the possibility of good things happening--or even just the possibility of a good way of framing things to recognize what was also good, even in an overall disappointment. Even in a situation that was painful and hard to resolve. I really appreciate that, because in the case of M, it's been hard to just view it all as either "on" or "off."

We're not robots, and the truth is, in companionship with M I had in addition to seriously too much chronic stress and frustration because of our personality incompatibilities and how they impacted me--I had consistent (persistent!) company and attachment that was the most reliable I'd experienced with a man/partner in over 20 years. Just for a year and a half, but after all those years on my own, that was quite an accomplishment. I am still sorry we couldn't find a breakthrough.

I noticed your thoughts about possibly leaving a gate open in the fence regarding the Narchitect ex-friend, Amber. Took me a while to circle back and think over that decision again, poke it a bit.

I come back to thinking that to respect my original boundary about him is wise for me. I remember how utterly clear it was at the time I decided. He was/is uber-powerful as a persona, and constantly in court suing or being sued. Everybody from his ex-wife to business partners. Everything he talked about regarding his businesses was about other people being horrible to him (always the victim) and when he talked about dreaming up new deals or big sums there was a gleam in his eyes I found repellent. Also a LOT of vengefulness toward past associates (he'd light up most when he described defeating someone in some way). He loved the combat side of big money and I recoiled from that part of him. None of that had anything to do with his promises to me, but it was part of his character that affected trust. Recently, despite his eloquent message, his complete vagueness about what he'd done in our friendship was off-putting too. As though that had been someone else he vaguely knew rather than himself. He made no meaningful connection between words he'd said (fulsome paragraphs of promises, not a brief mention he could've forgotten) and their impact on me. Made a few remarks about not remembering. Wasn't important enough to think about, evidently, when he had another millions-thing on his mind. So in this case, I think the gate should remain shut. I agree with you that forever's a heavy word, except that for me some people are toxic. In this case, seems like the word's a friend. (SocioNbro comes to mind. After our court battle, I knew I would never want to see him again. Never as in a forever choice. Zero doubt that was the right call.)

Back to M, things are currently shifted from the painful place of two weeks ago. It's an odd thing but I'm okay with it for now. It has to do with his knee. He's in a lot of pain. Our latest contact was another afternoon today where I needed to vacate my house because plumbers and contractors would be here to fix the sagging floor (too many huffing and puffing people in the house for safety, one in particular who'd likely drop his mask despite reminders--I needed to be out and stay out two hours after the last one left, per my doctor). So after a visit in a friend's yard both Pooch and I enjoyed very much--she did such a scamper--I visited him, bringing dinner.

I think because of the physical pain he's in, and because he wasn't doing a cooking performance, he was less manic and more real, nicer to be around. I was able to just set out dinner (delicious) simply, fetch things for us both. And because he's not easily mobile at the moment, he cooled his usual frantic-manic talk a bit along with having more restrained physical movements. It's sad to point out, but being forced to be physically more calm seemed to calm his talking energy too, and it was a more back-and-forth conversation thanz we normally have. He did talk most about himself, but it felt appropriate because he's working through how he'd cope with a knee surgery if they find out it's needed. Stairs, no shower on first floor, etc. It won't be fun.

He also was a bit more open emotionally, talking about how he has a cascade of dark thoughts because of the pain, which I understood (I had a similar mental parade of pessimism after the knee hairline fracture with my fall). His own isolation is getting to him, because he can't concentrate as well on his work with it hurting so much.

What I feel a little wary about but also enjoyed, was the caregiving side of the afternoon. It's such a comfortable role for me, and I actually take pleasure in serving people and bringing relief when someone's hurting or sad. We relaxed and talked about our usual stuff, politics especially, but it was the nice part we have always enjoyed together. I was happy to be experiencing that again and Pooch was over the moon to be lounging on the huge L-couch between us. She's clearly missed him.

I think in a nutshell what made my heart feel comfortable this afternoon was that M's physical pain made him somewhat emotionally more vulnerable. It just felt like the pompous controlling part of him took a break and he was relating in a more human way.

Won't last that way, I know better. But I did feel like a friend. I still am doubtful he can ever do the same for me -- nurture or tune into how I am inside. But I wasn't needing that support myself at the moment so I just enjoyed the giving side. And he seemed to appreciate it a lot. (If situations were reversed, I doubt I'd be soothed by him, so without expecting a tit for tat, I was fine just giving. For once, he let himself just receive. And that felt more balanced.)

He used to make such a production of being the big-papa paternalistic condescending person in charge of *everything*. And that drove me absolutely nuts. This time he just couldn't be, and having his favorite chicken tikki masala with some good conversation and distraction seemed to be a comfort.

Two lonely old farts. Maybe we'll be able to keep enjoying a visit or two a month or whatever, and help each other through this dark winter. Or even if not, today was nice.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #607 on: October 31, 2020, 06:54:46 AM »
Maybe you'll have to chop one of M's legs off to make him more manageable, Hopsie :)  It's a shame, I guess maybe he has to put up a wall of some sort and that's where the manic, being in control stuff comes in, and maybe not so necessary when he has a mishap like this and realises he is human.  Maybe he'll notice it was nice not to rush around so much and be able to be calmer in the future.  I'm glad you had the nice dinner and you know, I think there's nothing wrong with taking care of people.  Some people are just more nurturing than others and enjoy doing it - it's just keeping the boundary in place so that it doesn't become more than that (hard for me to do!).  It is hard when you meet someone who's amazing in some ways and a nightmare in others.  You kind of need someone in between the two.  I'm glad you had M as a bolthole though, even if it was just to be out of the way while the plumbers were there (and I hope they got everything done okay?).

The N friend sounds like a good one to keep away from.  Good people only - not perfect but just not too much of anything else.  No need to add stress to your life.  There's quite enough of that about just now.  He sounds quite tiring xx

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #608 on: October 31, 2020, 08:41:37 AM »
If I had been as perceptive and mature as you are about man-relationships in my 40s, Tupp, I would have been saved a Titanic load of grief.

Thank you for those thoughts. So spot on. The part-great, part-nightmare is astute. And so is the need for carefulness around my caregiving pleasures. Especially when I know it wouldn't really be reciprocal. He'd do anything dutiful needed for me I know, but if it lasted, his impatience would show. It'd bore him and boredom makes him nasty.

Your notion of removing a leg made me laugh out loud! I love your dark sense of humor.  I'm not sure it'd be as effective as your old fashioned arse-kicking, though. Next time (hope there will be one) I get another hapless geezer in my sights, I'll send him over the pond first for a thorough Tupp evaluation.

hugs
Hops

PS New smaller heater's in, which is good, but they used the new gas lines they'd extended for the huge heater so what teensy floor space used to exist is now completely gone. I will never hire them again for anything. They also bashed the big heater into my storm door frame on the way out so it's loose and couldn't block drafts. I've put in my request for them to come back and fix that. Sheesh.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 02:47:11 PM by Hopalong »
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Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #609 on: November 01, 2020, 06:38:07 AM »
If I had been as perceptive and mature as you are about man-relationships in my 40s, Tupp, I would have been saved a Titanic load of grief.

Thank you for those thoughts. So spot on. The part-great, part-nightmare is astute. And so is the need for carefulness around my caregiving pleasures. Especially when I know it wouldn't really be reciprocal. He'd do anything dutiful needed for me I know, but if it lasted, his impatience would show. It'd bore him and boredom makes him nasty.

Your notion of removing a leg made me laugh out loud! I love your dark sense of humor.  I'm not sure it'd be as effective as your old fashioned arse-kicking, though. Next time (hope there will be one) I get another hapless geezer in my sights, I'll send him over the pond first for a thorough Tupp evaluation.

hugs
Hops

PS New smaller heater's in, which is good, but they used the new gas lines they'd extended for the huge heater so what teensy floor space used to exist is now completely gone. I will never hire them again for anything. They also bashed the big heater into my storm door frame on the way out so it's loose and couldn't block drafts. I've put in my request for them to come back and fix that. Sheesh.

Oh God, Hops, they sound awful, what a saga out of something that should have been (I assume) fairly simple from the outset.  I hope they come back and fix the door quickly, silly people.

I'm glad the leg removal came across as a joke!  I know my dark sense of humour doesn't always translate well on a screen, but an arse kicking is also available on demand and I would be happy to oblige :) I don't know about being perceptive and mature as I just avoid men generally but other people's situations are always easier to think about.  I do hope a good match appears for you at some point though, you have so much to give and there must be a man out there who could give and receive in return.  We just have to find the bugger!  I hope the door gets fixed soon xx

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #610 on: November 02, 2020, 01:45:13 PM »
Thanks, Tupp.
Those are encouraging words!

I'm really beginning to think M and I can manage the transition to friendship.
We'll seeeeeeee, since Hops can do some denial, yes she can. But the last few days felt like some kind of a shift. I'm glad and if I'm wrong....I Shall Pivot Away again.

Meanwhile, a nice-seeming man has responded on the website, my Zoom pal is all set for a yak next week, and I've invited some neighbors to come help me try out the fire pit.

Life goes ON. (And I met M's housecleaner and am planning to hire her, since that will be a huge regular lift, as CB noted. She's not as cheap as her predecessors but she has standards that are serious. Baseboards EVERY time, kinda thing. I'm glad.)

Hugs and hope some of this sunshine today has made it across the pond.....
Hops

PS--I increased my morning SAD light session from a half hour to an hour and I like the effect!
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #611 on: November 02, 2020, 02:26:30 PM »
(((((Amber))))),

I forgot to tell you how nice it was to read about introverted-you toting fresh-baked cookies to your 3D neighbors. I really got a thrill out of that. Of course you won't automatically find Perfect Friends there...but I feel so positive that good things will come of this eventually. Just opening up to that possibility changes your sense of being in the world....

Hope you'll keep the cookies going randomly when you feel like it. It's worth it to actually think about "community" and I feel very happy that you are placing even just-neighbors relationships on your list of things worth doing. "Relationship" covers human beings connecting with human beings, no matter what shape it takes, imo.

That's it. You just gave me a smile.

Hope you are busy being happy right now....so hope things are good with B and can't wait to hear about that relationship! (On Farm Doings, of course.)

hugs
Hops
« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 03:45:54 PM by Hopalong »
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Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #612 on: November 19, 2020, 01:24:02 PM »
Well, life is swampy. Sometimes dank and dark and other times when the light is right, remarkably beautiful.

I'm Zooming next week with Quirk and looking forward to it. I think he's becoming a friend I can let my hair down with and be pretty transparent. So eccentric that I doubt we'd ever make the switch to romance, but he does have channels I've missed (like sensitivity). Funny, smart, very verbal guy with an expressive face.

I just don't know quite how pure introverts manage it but I'm fumbling my way to some new balances with different people.

M is still in my heart and I'm working at discovering how much of him is good for me, as a friend, or not. We've had two really nice evenings in the last month and he states consistently that I am welcome at his home any time. I do enjoy the comfort and familiarity of going there. He hasn't been here since our breakup but once the house is tidy I'd be happy to have him over again sometime.

BUUUUUT. Because it was so comforting the last couple times, I began to fantasize that things might be different. Was talking with a girlfriend about how I imagine that, and how even a committed relationship might become possible again, if he would decide to see the Sikh on his own and really do some of the inner work that would help him both be more psychologically comfortable with himself, and also able to listen and respect boundaries with me. She said, well you'd have nothing to lose by asking him about it.

So I did. In a simple email I basically said that if he decided to work with Sikh on his own for several months, for a me a lot could change. That I'd offer a couple things that'd change things for me and he could do the same.

His response was: All is good, Hops. Don't imagine anything else. No self-fulfilling prophecies. I dunno what the 3rd sentence meants but sure got the "don't" part.

I found myself very very sad. Another step in letting go, re-embracing reality is my friend. But I'm struggling hard with it.

I realized too that in spite of being the one to do the breaking up, I am holding on and he is not. (Or not showing it.) One of the things narcissistic-tendency folks do, I've heard in some of the things I read or watch about it, is upon experiencing rejection, detach pretty quickly and absolutely. I told my friend I feel I've been compartmentalized--like we can be in each other's company, but he has a total grip on himself at all times and has just sealed it off. He seems genuinely comfortable just hanging out and enjoying the superficial parts of what we once had (the talk about politics and culture and his work and dinner company), but has absolutely released the shared-life dreams or any emotional intimacy part (not sure we ever really had the latter, since it'd require mutual listening). I'm still puzzling over whether how it is, is good for me or bad for me, or something in between.

And I do get it. The compartmentalizing is self-protective for M and makes sense, in a way. But given the sudden day of sadness, it's also a warning for me. My heart is sticky and stubborn. I still feel my breakup decision was correct, because he stressed me out so severely I felt I had no choice, health wise. But three months later, I'm not fully over it. I know pandemic isolation and winter coming on have something to do with it too. But some of it is just genuinely missing him, missing have a partner however problematic. It's stupid to be surprised.

We're doing Thanksgiving dinner together (fancy fish and a flick). It's my favorite holiday reduced it to its simplest: gratitude (no commercialism). When we discussed Christmas I said I imagine he'd be FaceTiming all day with folks who love him a lot, and I hoped it'd be peaceful for him and next year would be better. But didn't offer to share it with him (personally, that'd be very painful, since it's family-family-family and I'm no longer eligible for the family dreams, etc). He replied, Whatever. That doesn't cover Xmas Eve. (I heard him as being completely focused on what he wants, and not pausing to think about how I experience that holiday, due to D.)

I replied that I find the whole period difficult and would he want to be around me if I'm feeling sad? And the last time I'd said I was feeling sad he'd responded, "You have no reason to feel sad." That one doesn't validate another's feelings; feelings just are. Suggested we see how Tgiving goes before getting into Xmas.

I figured that was that and all was clear again. Both good and bad, happy and sad, but clear. (Since to me it's so clear what M wants: perky happy holiday with my company but "no imaginings.")

But then he wrote back: "Happy or sad, I am interested in being around you. Nothing more."

So that sounded almost like intimacy or connection, followed by a brick wall. So I'm confused again. I THINK he has told himself that sharing company makes sense for him, but he can absolutely "no mas" and keep his compartment from leaking.

I am not sure I know how to do that. In fact I'm pretty sure I DON'T know how to.

Do I need to go NC or cold-turkey or do you think I should hang in with this strange friendship? The fact I'm facing is, I still love this man, warts and manias and all. Yet...I don't know quite what he's doing in regard to me, emotionally. If anything.
Maybe if I hadn't had two years of nonstop "you are everything and I am so in love" from him...I wouldn't be confused now. (I recall the one evening I left his house upset after some critical remark he made and I said, your next woman will need to have thicker skin and he said "There will never be another woman!". It sounded quite real.

Is it really possible to be so totally in love as he professed to be for so long, and now be totally okay with its new shape without one hiccup? He has a vice grip on his guard and it's always up, so maybe this is just what that looks like.

Maybe I'm the one leaking. I just don't know if this is healthy and normal or a symptom of a lonely little ship steaming back toward an iceberg. (Me being ship.)

My T thinks it's okay to be vulnerable and just say how I feel whether he ever does or not. (He doesn't, any more. And he always kept up the huge wall of words so he didn't become vulnerable. Come to think of it, his love expressions were almost always in emails, not spoken when I was present.)

I have difficulty with M's charge: "Don't imagine anything else." Really. That's nearly impossible. Maybe I could just tell him that, and see if he'd be able to be more open. Or if he stays stonewalled, that might help me re-retreat.

Thoughts very very welcome. Thanks for reading all this.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #613 on: November 19, 2020, 03:41:26 PM »
Hmmm

I think M may be comfortable with an emotionally unengaged relationship (of any kind), as long as it's intellectually stimulating and includes pleasant rituals. He did describe both wives doing fairly drastic things to get his attention.

Hmmm

I really don't know what's going on and need to get my focus back on my own responsibility and my own growth. I feel a bit destabilized by my recent emotions.

Breeeeaaaathe, etc.
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Relationship/s
« Reply #614 on: November 19, 2020, 04:16:35 PM »
Aw, Hopsie.  I'm sorry.  This is tough.  My thoughts, for what they are worth:

I think M has shown you, many times, not only how he is, but also that he's unlikely to change.  I understand that there are aspects of his company that are fun and engaging.  But I don't think the two of you are well suited.  You are very emotionally astute and self aware.  You've done a huge amount of work on yourself and you know what you need in order to be happy.  I don't think M is able to give that to you.  I think he sounds like a nice guy, but I think the fact that you feel he needs to do a lot of work with a therapist in order to change his personality so that you're better suited (or even just to get him to the stage where he doesn't illicit enough stress to make you have a stroke) is a sign that this is not the right thing for you.  And it is a shame, as there are obviously some parts of him that are a good match for you.  But I think the parts that don't fit outweigh that.

I think people can fall in love in different ways.  For some it's heart and soul and takes a long time to relinquish.  For others it's more surface level, and easier to move on from.  I don't think he can be different to who he is, any more than you can.

As for going no contact - I guess the question at the moment is whether the stirring up of emotion, the questioning and wondering again what it all meant and how he feels and so on is making the isolation and general pandemic situation harder to deal with, or if the brief respites of nice meals and a pleasant evening is making it easier to manage.  I think under normal circumstances you could throw yourself into lots of social things and travel and so on, but obviously just now that isn't an option.  So I guess the decision needs to be whether seeing him from time to time is making life easier or harder overall.

I do think that seeing him is going to mean it takes longer for your broken heart to heal.  A bit like endlessly picking a scab (I'm not suggesting M is a scab but you know what I mean).  But perhaps the pandemic will be even harder to bear if you don't see him at all.  I think that's one only you can figure out the answer to (maybe with T?).

But overall, Hopsie, I think you're better off putting this to bed.  I don't think he's the right one for you and I don't think that's likely to change.  Whether you do that now or whether getting through the winter will be easier if you see him every now and again I don't know.  Sorry not to be more positive about it all xx