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I just found out - should I tell his daughter?

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Ella:
Hi everyone,
---sorry this is so long!--
I'm new here and glad to have found you. A few days ago I started doing some research about emotional abuse and, while that didn't seem to really fit, I found a page about abuse and N's and whoa! everything fell into place. I have been with my fiance for 7 years and his behavior has gradually gotten worse, to the point where I really don't want to spend time with him, but I'm afraid what will happen to him if I leave him. I'm probably afraid what will happen to me too, but I'm a pretty strong person and figure I'll get over it - and pretty sure that I'd be a lot happier in the long run. He is not a strong person, however, has started suffering from anxiety and panic attacks (probably because in the last couple of years he has become almost totally dependent on me both emotionally and financially), and is drinking way too much to do anything productive.

On one hand I feel relieved to discover that all of these weird behaviors fit so perfectly into a defined disorder - I finally have some confirmation  that I'm not crazy to think there is something wrong here. (In his world, if there's a problem, it's always with ME.) At the same time, the outlook for recovery is pretty dim - and it seems like it's going to just get worse unless I find a way to deal with it.

So there's a couple of things that I want to say and ask here. First, a lot of you are dealing with N parents. I don't know if my father was an N but he was so messed up and violently abusive, both physically and verbally, that as a child I would dread the hour that he was coming home from work and used to pray before dinner that I wouldn't drop my fork or do something else that would cause him to hit me. (And we weren't a particularly religious family.) The point is that parents can cause a tremendous amount of damage to their kids, and that can take a very long time and a lot of painful emotional work to heal. But I hope that those of you who are suffering from the fallout keep the courage and are fortunate to find good people to help you. (I'm 44 now and some years ago did a type of therapy, based on the work of David Grove, that was extremely helpful to me.)

Now to the questions:
My N has a 21 year old daughter who hasn't spent much time with her dad until this last month. She was raised by a violent, alcoholic mother who wouldn't even acknowledge that N was the dad in the early years, and then told lies about that by saying "he just left us."  This beautiful girl has now pretty much cut the ties with her mother, and is on her own. She has been corresponding with her dad by email for the last few years, but hasn't seen him very much. Then last month she went with us to another country, for the entire month, and unfortunately he went off on some weird N mind trips that really disgusted her - and probably scared her too. So I'm wondering if, for her peace of mind and future self protection, I should suggest to her that she check out information on N personalities?

The second question is, am I being naive if I think that I can maintain a  relationship with this guy and not lose myself? (Why I would want to is another question!) So far he's been the type that has one steady relationship (me) which he tries to nurture (he's faithful, and tries to be supportive, as much as possible within the limits of the disorder) in order to assure a constant supply of attention (NS?). I've learned not to correct him when he's wrong about something (let him find out on his own) and I let him be the total point of attention when we are out in public. Fortunately, we don't live together, and I have plenty of freedom to pursue my own activities and friendships where I can "be myself."  

I plan to make some changes in my behaviors so that I won't be in situations where his behavior creates a problem for me. I don't know if that will work in helping me be more comfortable, or how he will respond, but it seems the more compassionate solution than to just say "you're a loser, good bye!"  If the situation were reversed (okay, me not being N but being disfunctional in other ways because of childhood traumas) I would be devastated if the person I loved the most took that route.  Rather, I would hope that they would give me time and support while I tried to deal with it.

Can N's change, with help? Do your N's know that they are N's? I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences.

Thanks.

Alan:
Welcome the the board.  You will find your answers.

1) If the daughter is reasonably normal, I would inform her, especially if she doesn't know her father or have a close relationship.  I believe people should have the knowledge when possible.

2) In regards to living with an N,  here's a good article and website to begin with.  Is the cost too high for you?

http://samvak.tripod.com/npdtips.html

CC:
Hi Ella,

I had to speak up because I am not a fan of the website that Alan directed you to (sorry Alan, personal opinion)  :) The man who created it is a self-proclaimed narcissist and his followers tend to perpetuate anger and sarcasm with regard to recovery. Even in his honest attempts to help people (and he does provide some positive information), his narcissism is apparent in the manipulative marketing/money making links to his websites.  Just to clue you in, notice how many times he says 'ME' and 'MY' on his homepage!

Sorry if you get confused with the conflicting remarks, but each of us had our own experience with beginning recovery: none of which are insignificant.  I suggest however that if you are looking for some good, relatively objective information that you check out the "books that have helped" thread last posted on September 24th.  Most of the authors of these books have based their content on group research and professional studies rather than personal experience.  I don't think Sam Vaknin's site is a good place to 'start' although when you are better equipped you may get something out of it.  If you do go there, please take it with a grain of salt until you have read up in other places.  Also, try this link:

http://www.n-courage.net/

CC:
Just wanted to mention that Alan is a valuable contributor to this board and has made other very good comments and submitted worthy info (such as the radio broadcast coming up this week).  We just happen to disagree in this one area  :wink:

Alan:
CC:

I appreciate the words.  After listening to the radio program, the way it was edited, leaves the basic info, very little justifaction, etc.

I'm glad we can agree to disagree.  If I was able to do that with my N, then things might have been different.

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