Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Mindfulness and codependence thread
sKePTiKal:
Interesting... now you're getting to places I've already been decades ago. Explore away!
One caution however. Completely eradicating ego isn't healthy. Just remember that one thing, and you'll be safe exploring to your heart's content. Having a healthy ego is necessary for survival and the operative word is healthy.
lighter:
Did you explore mindfulness and dropping ego during T sessions years ago, or did you research and find it on your own, Amber? Was it martial arts, or popular books you read?
I know my T has been saying things like....
"When thing like that come up... it's usually to do with the ego, etc."
She hasn't actually TAKEN me INTO DROPPING EGOsessions, but has been acting as a tour guide.... explaining things, instead of trying to fix them. It's not like reducing anxiety or changing a traumatic event in my brain for keeps WORK. THOSE are concrete activities.... EMDR..... breathing meditations.....but the dropping ego stuff is all me, flailing about, trying to SEE things through a new lense..... and it's a shift I can honestly say I'm surprised by. I think it HAS to happen that way, for me, for me to buy into it completely, kwim?
I never anticipated SEEING my In-Laws, at every stage of their lives, without any ego, on my part, coloring that view. I'm curious about that shift in all things. Last night the pug about shoved me out of oldest dd's bed.... it's a double, so there was no room for a wedged pug, using her mama to push off between us, and make more room for her not so little pug self.
I went downstairs to my bed, and my sister's breathing machine was making all kinds of wet draining noise racket, the actual breathing part suctioned over4 her mouth, her nose loudly snoring, and I just took the hour to SEE what came up, and to SEE it without ego, as I could.
It's like having a pair of magic goggles, isn't it?
Oh... I finally worried the machine was killing my sister, so picked up the piece sitting on her mouth and asked if it needed to be moved to her nose. She popped it on her nose and went right back to sleep. The snoring stopped but the machine just kept on making very loud moist noises.
When I woke up, there was silence, and sister said she emptied the machine at some point.... must have been after 4:30, bc I was sound asleep and didn't notice, which tells you how deeply I can sleep. Such a blessing.
That's an amazing thing... to BE in bed, unable to sleep at 3:30 with many distractions around me and CHOOSE how I'll handle it. Choosing to get curious, think about things sans ego...... and look forward to what's there..... then realize that took me INTO sleep..... is really cool, IME.
At several points I sensed despair was an option.... when I couoldn't sleep.... and I bounced right over them.
THIS is a good jumping off point for finishing the she shed and having a separate little room where I can escape or send guests to get some privacy. I'm still a bit iffy on the BIG TREES looming around that little shed, but I see the pros very clearly.
I also want to say I have a crawl space under my house that stays icy in the summer and toasty in the winter. I can stand up in the first 1/4 of the space, then it slopes up, and I have to duck walk or crawl. I've thought about digging it out, and adding some living space. Honestly, I thought a bout putting a tent in last night and sleeping there, but for the creepy crawlies, which are kept at a minimum bc I never turn the lights off.
IF I had one little bedroom down there....... one privagte sleeping space finished out and bug free..... however that needed to look.... that would be a good thing, IMO.
Any ideas how to do that, Amazons?
Lighter
sKePTiKal:
25 years before T, I was the cliché "seeker of truth" type. I explored everything I could get my hands on or experience, as fully as I could... including psychology texts... in hopes that I could learn to frame my big QUESTIONS in a coherent enough way... so that just about anyone could answer: "well that's easy; x - y- z." I was decidely desperate in my search, too - and therefore, not terribly discerning along the way. So, I was easily convinced that if I simply immersed myself fully & faithfully in say, Pastafarianism... the knowledge I was seeking would be revealed. If I completely SUBMITTED and BELIEVED, it would be so; in time.
I'm still not sure WTH Pastafarians actually believe. LOL.
Anyway, one of the more organized "keepers of truth" convinced me that any self or inner-considering (versus other/outer considering) was like original sin and MUST be conquered, eliminated, let go - to find that higher truth. That ego stood in the way of enlightenment. At the time, I wasn't able to SEE that usually it's ego that is TRYING TO FIND enlightenment, to prop up it's self-image... because according to x, y, z... ego is always BAD; it's the "shadow self"; it's selfish and self-absorbed and self-centered. That is decidely FALSE, in the objective sense.
Since this is the co-dependence thread, you see how that belief system fostered all the things we're actually in the process of freeing ourselves from? It was actually the concept of a healthy ego, that finally was my breakthrough.
A healthy ego, won't easily enter enmeshment or co-dependence - because there IS an actual true (and good & healthy) self-interest or ego. As in the UNbalance of one person always giving; always doing; always emotionally available - and the other always taking, never emotionally available.... and sometimes even intending harm. The reciprocity and balance is what is healthy.
Most of my T work, was discovering that despite all the various conditioning/programming I'd been through... once I'd stripped all that away, my ego wasn't such a bad thing; it was pretty balanced - in it's essence. But I'd learned a lot of dysfunctional crap I had to strip off of it and then PRACTICE in real life, validating it for myself. There are still difficult, tangled up things to sort out about that... and like anyone learning something new, I flailed, overcompensated, missed things I should've paid attention to... and learned the hard way: by making mistakes and reflecting on what I could've done or chosen differently. For an outcome that satisfied my need for balance, stability and order... that still left room for spontaneity, uncertainty and unknowns - including risk. That work is still being refined.
All I'd been seeking all those previous years, truly was right inside my head. It was Twiggy's spirit - who'd been locked away and almost completely forgotten - coming back, along with her memories - that was my "missing piece" and made me whole in a way no relationship could ever fulfill. That's where my confidence had been all those years. Where my "can" had been locked up. And the understanding, that within the new, re-combined me and ego, was MY truth. Perhaps not everyone else's truth... but we have to start somewhere, don't we?
Might as well practice what we might attempt to preach or teach.
Hopalong:
This rings true for me, Amber:
--- Quote ---A healthy ego, won't easily enter enmeshment or co-dependence - because there IS an actual true (and good & healthy) self-interest or ego. As in the UNbalance of one person always giving; always doing; always emotionally available - and the other always taking, never emotionally available.... and sometimes even intending harm. The reciprocity and balance is what is healthy.
--- End quote ---
Nboss was my greatest lesson in terms of the toxicity of elevating anyone to Master Teacher status: having the Special Secret to fulfillment, enlightenment, whatever. He craved enmeshed and dependent followers, and when anybody pushed back....slice 'n dice (in his case, very covertly). He had a post-PhD in manipulation.
I still have spurchul stuff to learn but like at my own church, intense independence of thought means a lot of the vocabulary just doesn't go down well for me. Nobody discusses the deep openness of agnosticism, but that's where I abide, and strongly so. I'm still connected there, and very gratefully, for friendships and community but not for turning over my psyche to anybody "spiritually expert." I am bored by most homilies but stay for the familiar good faces (over Zoom these days), music, and caring. When I do look for outside insight, it's mostly from people whose vibe is helpful not because they SAY they're helping, but because it FEELS like they are.
It's taken me a lifetime to figure that out. (I believe practicing setting boundaries peacefully is a good antidote to conditions of codependence or enmeshment...for me, such practice needs to be lifetime. Not automatic but always worth it, and less painful with use.)
hugs
Hops
cats paw:
Amber,
I was an innocent and fervent seeker as well. Though I stopped short of wearing a Pastafarian colander :)
Totally agree with the idea of "healthy ego".
Cat
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