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Twoapenny:
--- Quote from: Hopalong on August 30, 2024, 03:09:07 PM ---I've had a few friends who talk that way for 90 minutes.
Today, though, I can't do it. The main one starts up and after a while I'll say kindly, I've got about 10 more minutes, can you give me the summary?
I've felt in the past huge anxiety building when I NEEDED to interrupt her stream-of-consienceness but DIDN'T. I think the art of "gentle interruption" is key, and gets easier with practice.
But it sounds like your friend never took a breath. It's difficult to interrupt when you believe in politeness and patience as core values. But having an alligator chomping inside your guts and screaming brain while they drone onnnnnnnnnnnnnn is difficult too.
Rest up! I get how draining that was.
hugs
Hops
--- End quote ---
I seem to attract these kind of people, Hops. I realised I do have a pattern - yet another that I hadn't noticed lol - of becoming friends with women who (a) don't have supportive partners (so spend a lot of time discussing their angst and worries with me) and (b) who don't take practical steps to deal with their situations. I don't mean as severe as divorcing necessarily, but don't discuss their problems with their partner, they're not willing to take the financial hit that comes from going from two to one, funnily enough as I write that I realised there are three I can think of off the top of my head who stay because they know he can't cope on his own and although they might be able to adjust to a smaller property in a new area, hubby won't. And that is the pattern of my mother, again. I've recreated similar situations so many times, and almost never realise it. They're not abusive like my mum, but they are in that perpetual state of refusing to acknowledge reality and dealing with what's actually happening. And I think that's why I find it so tiring to listen to it all. There's just no awareness, even when talking about something good. My friend in this case wasn't moaning, they had a really nice time, but so much of it was just not stuff anyone needs to know - what they had for dinner each night, what time they went out each morning, the conversation they had with the concierge each day. It's that focus on minutiae whilst ignoring the big problems they have in life - health care problems that aren't being dealt with, financial issues that aren't being dealt with, not seeing which bits are good and work well so doing more of them. I feel anxious when I listen to people talking about things that don't matter when I know they have big cliffs ahead of them that they're going to walk straight off of because they focus on the little things and keep ignoring the big stuff. It's my mum all over again and I think that's why it bugs me. I don't quite know how to adjust things. These are good people who have a good place in my life and I wouldn't want to be without them. But their refusal to deal with reality makes me anxious and I'm just not really in that place where I can go, "oh well". And genuinely be unaffected by it. Something else to ponder, I guess x
lighter:
How's the pondering going, Tupp?
Hopalong:
You are, as ever, SO insightful, Tupp.
What hits me is that someone who has worked so hard, and so intelligently, for insight into her own behaviors and patterns, is just baffled by cliffdwellers who can't or won't.
I'm guessing, but could some of this come from the very-rational gifts of being a bit on the spectrum? My D (Asperger's) used to complain to me: I just want the FACTS, Mom! Only years later did I realize she was just showing me how her brain worked differently. It must've been maddening for her to be with someone who was head-in-navel what are my FEEEEELNGS all day long. Or was isolating to write about that.
Anyhow, I get how draining and frustrating and anxiety-triggering that's been for you. You were literally struggling (not drama-struggling, near-drowning struggling) for years and years to keep yourself and Son safe and functional. To meet with people, good people, who have no clue how deep and wrenching that struggle was, and how it affected your psyche would be hard. Not worthless, it's good practice for the quotidian and mundane where most people live. But still hard.
Sending you much support for finding a peaceful balance. And, you go through some of the most productive pondering I've ever been honored to witness.
hugs
Hops
Twoapenny:
Ah it's the opposite with me, Hops, lost in translation due to me trying to keep things brief - when I say angst and worries it's not feelings being discussed, it's a long list of 'he did this and then he didn't do that and then he should have done that but then he didn't do this', all of which is accompanied by lots of extra detail of where, when, why, background etc - and all of it manageable by saying or doing something fairly simple. To give one example (and this is from a long time ago), a friend - who was a good friend, I cared for her a lot and enjoyed her company and she was good to me many times - spent a considerable length of time going through every detail of what had been an all weekend long argument over a scratch on the family car which she was certain was the fault of the husband. How she knew that when they both drove it regularly I don't know, but this whole passive aggressive argument started because of it, went on for three days, all around the kids, and here she was making my ears bleed with a minute by minute account of this endless and pointless saga. If I had a car, and a partner, and there was a scratch on the car, I would either fix the scratch myself, or ask him to do it. It's probably no more than a ten minute job, it's no different to polishing a table so it's not difficult to do, but when I asked her why she didn't just say "there's a scratch on the back of the car, can you fix it over the weekend" she looked at me like I had two heads. She just couldn't comprehend it and that's what I've had a lot of over the years - a need for endless drama (instead of just dealing with the situation - talk about how it makes you feel, of course, but why not look for a solution? I don't get that). Or a similar focus on irrelevant, unnecessary detail while huge obstacles remain unchecked - ie the friend with the holiday talk, who has an hour and a half free to give a blow by blow account of their trip but doesn't have time to go to the doctor and get the long list of health problems she has checked and dealt with, even though she's getting to the point of being disabled because things are getting so bad now.
I guess what it really highlighted for me (when we were away) was how nice it was to have uncomplicated conversations about where people were from and where they were going and how much they were enjoying it and so on. Uplifting verses draining, I guess.
I think there's a bit of a misconception that autistic people don't deal with feelings. I've never met an autistic person like that, in fact most I know are incredibly sensitive souls and worry enormously about other people and feel very deeply. I think it more likely that other people's feelings - in large amounts and in situations that can't be avoided - are very draining to listen to, particularly if it is just an emotional dump, rather than a quest for a solution. You need facts to problem solve. I think some people thrive on other people's feelings in a vampirific sort of way - it's fuel for the next bout of coffee morning gossip, or it makes people feel important to be trusted with the information. I've no issue with someone talking about their feelings, if it's proportionate to the situation (ie someone grieving will have a huge amount to get off their chest, someone still wanging on about feeling hard done by that someone else got the job seven years after it happened needs to take action to deal with that and move on). I think it's the perpetual helplessness that bugs me and I seem to have attracted a lot of that over the years. Although equally it's helped me work through a lot of my own stuff so I probably shouldn't be so dismissive of it xx
Twoapenny:
I have an example that is my mission to work on over the weekend :)
A very good friend of mine - caring, thoughtful, considerate - has a number of health problems, none of which she is dealing with. She doesn't follow medical advice, won't make lifestyle changes, tries multiple gimmicky type things (usually after it's recommended by an 'influencer') but doesn't follow through on anything that seems to help a bit. Takes part in activities that she knows will exacerbate her problems and make it difficult for her to function for several days.
We have had many conversations about her health and the many things that worry her. I have sent her lots of things I've found online in relation to the problems, whether it's articles about conventional treatments, complementary therapies, diet plans, exercise suggestions, even just basic stress management techniques. This is because I problem solve - there's no point endlessly talking about a problem without attempts to solve it (the only exceptions being problems that don't have a solution, like grief). Talking through the different attempts, yes, seeking others opinions or own experiences in relation to dealing with that problem, yes, having those down in the dumps times when nothing seems to be working, yes. But not 'create the problem - make no attempt to solve the problem - talk endlessly about the problem that you're making worse instead of trying to improve. So having been thinking to myself I'll see if she's free over the weekend for a phone call, I'm now not going to phone her because I don't want to listen to the latest crisis that she's created less than two weeks since getting over the last one by going out and doing something she knew would make things worse.
It's not a problem for me - just my observations about how things are. I am trying hard to prioritise what I want and need to do, and others can join in if they want, or carry on regardless if they don't. I do still feel a tug - she's suffering and that obligation to fix and soothe runs deep in me and feels uncomfortable to ignore. But she's suffering because she won't deal with the reality of the situation and that seems to be all around me. I don't even know why I'm waffling on lol, I just felt I needed to get it out of my head somehow x
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