why we 'hook' with narcissists...

[write]

I guess most of us started from some point of trauma, and the n's trauma locked into ours.

I've spent years trying to help my n'h, and getting the best from our relationship only to have us floored again and again by his apparent cruelty.

It really does feel like there's no way out at times...but the way out is remembering that there's another you, undefined by n.

If my experience is common, once leaving the company of n, you'll err, go back or find other n's invading your life...nature abhors a vacuum and all that!

Be patient. If you stick to the principles of 'I exist' 'I count' and 'here are my boundaries'...the ns do eventually disappear.

Now to learn healthier relationships...slow-going, but hopefully I'll get there!

[BlueTopaz]

I loved your message, writes.  

Be patient. If you stick to the principles of 'I exist' 'I count' and 'here are my boundaries'...the ns do eventually disappear.

This is fantastic advice.

Now to learn healthier relationships...slow-going, but hopefully I'll get there!

From what I just read, I sure believe you will...   I think the only way to true and lasting healing really, is more of a paced/slow going process, just like you say...

BT

[Anonymous]

You know, I had never heard of NPB before last holiday season.  At that time, my mother's behavior became so bizarre and unacceptable, I got up in the middle of the night looking for info on the net about detachment (something I learned about a long time ago when dealing with an alcoholic boyfriend....but felt I could use again in dealing with my mother).  Link after link that I found led me to sites on personality disorders and when I read about narcissism, I understood what was going on with my mother.

After I got my mind around narcissism, I made a list of all the people in my life who consistently caused problems for me.  Some I realized were big time N's.....I set a couple of minor boundaries with those people and POOF....they disappeared instantly.  Some people I realized had some characteristics, as I guess we all do.  I set some minor boundaries with them and gradually they stopped treating me the "old" N way and those relationships were salvaged and I find them very satisfying today.  It was my behavior that was keeping the dance going....you know, they'd put me down or express disapproval and I try even harder to please and accomodate.  When I stopped doing that, distanced myself from them but remained polite they eventually came around and treated me like a human being again.  These were the kind of people that would always leave me thinking things like "Gee, they are so nice to so and so...why are they so mean to me?  What's wrong with me?  Why don't they value me?" I'm thankful that by changing my ways I still have these people in my life but with mutual respect now.  

When I let go of the ones that wouldn't tolerate even the slightest personal boundary I found time in my life to spend with those friends and family who are healthy...and eventually made some new healthy friends.  I don't have all these "misunderstandings" (you know what I mean by that) with the new friends!    

Unfortunately, my mother is still a problem and I guess always will be but I am learning.

[Anonymous]

It was my behavior that was keeping the dance going

...(sigh) that is so true! We realize that when we put boudaries w/some people, it does work, but not all of them...

When I stopped doing that, (..) they eventually came around and treated me like a human being again

What happened to me concerning my family is on the contrary a big backlash   ...
I guess (as far as I am concerned) setting boundaries works w/ "light" N, not strong ones...
-RL

[ResilientLady]

sorry that was me in the post just above... Forgot to log in..
-Resilient Lady

[Anonymous]

I find this thread very timely, informative and enlightening. Though NPD is a new discovery to me, it like the missing puzzle piece that fits in several relationships; particularly with my N-alcoholic-Dad and my ex-fiance.

It was my behavior that was keeping the dance going....you know, they'd put me down or express disapproval and I try even harder to please and accomodate. When I stopped doing that, distanced myself from them but remained polite they eventually came around and treated me like a human being again.

Your statement was particularly helpful, Guest, as it very much applies to a couple of friendships that are now under further examination. During the breakup with my ex-N, I reached out to friends for support. Being  mindful that others have lives, and the universe doesn't revolve around me, I tried not to take it personally when days went by without a return phone call or e-mail. Sometimes my attempts to contact these two particular friends would be outnumbered 2 to 1. I even prefaced calls or e-mails by saying "sorry if I'm an emotional barnacle right now," or "I'm feeling quite needy." In other words, I tried to own my feelings while reaching out without being demanding.

The upshot is after several months of feeling ignored (or at the very least tolerated) I approached one particular friend and asked if we could talk about it; that perhaps in the midst of my grieving, I was being hypersensitive or over-analyzing. Approaching her was also in anticipation of a Christmas Eve get together at her house which required travel and pet care arrangements. Again, she didn't respond for several days. When she did e-mail yesterday, she conveyed she didn't have the time/energy/or desire to deal with me during the past few days but, if I wanted to talk, perhaps we could that evening or the following day.

(Sorry this is getting lengthy).  I was already feeling pretty raw and vulnerable as the holidays were approaching. This hasn't helped. Frankly,  I don't feel very welcome in her life right now, much less on Christmas Eve. So I've opted not to hurry up, rush around, and make 11th-hour arrangements in order to go there and pretend. It means spending Christmas Eve by myself but this appeals to me more than a contrived situation where I already feel uneasy.

I think this is progress for me and along the lines of:

These were the kind of people that would always leave me thinking things like "Gee, they are so nice to so and so...why are they so mean to me? What's wrong with me? Why don't they value me?" I'm thankful that by changing my ways I still have these people in my life but with mutual respect now.

So, Guest, thank you for helping me be okay with the adage "To thine own self be true."

Merry Christmas everyone.

bludie

[Anonymous]

I even prefaced calls or e-mails by saying "sorry if I'm an emotional barnacle right now," or "I'm feeling quite needy." In other words, I tried to own my feelings while reaching out without being demanding.

It was honest of you to admit your neediness; but I think it made others afraid they'd have to take care of you. Most people aren't up for that, at least past age 30. They start having their own problems and can't deal with other people's crises (sad but true). My suggestion with friends is to show an effort to be positive or cheerful despite the problems. They appreciate that effort a lot.

I think a solitary Christmas Eve is beautiful, peaceful, cozy, and a nice thing to do. I loved spending it alone when I was single. I'd put the radio on to some religious music, curl up with a book and some hot cider.

Wishing you a wonderful Christmas,

bunny

[bludie]

Thanks for the feedback, bunny. I guess I didn't realize my entreaties or disclaimers might create a sense of foreboding with two people I considered pretty close friends. No one wants to feel responsible for another's happiness. Nor does the word friendship mean rescue. I just haven't known where to turn and I've felt pretty lost. Now I may have worn out my welcome mat; hope it's not irrevocable.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the feedback, bunny. I guess I didn't realize my entreaties or disclaimers might create a sense of foreboding with two people I considered pretty close friends. No one wants to feel responsible for another's happiness. Nor does the word friendship mean rescue. I just haven't known where to turn and I've felt pretty lost. Now I may have worn out my welcome mat; hope it's not irrevocable.

bludie,

I doubt it's irrevocable. If you chill on the barnacle stuff, and they see that you're basically managing your crises, they'll be back. Friends feel relieved when they don't have to shore up someone too much. Even if you're close, it generally doesn't work in a friendship. And hey, you can come here and vent. I'll be checking here on Christmas.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Bludie--

I think even really good friends can only handle so much. I also think our friends do like to help us and to feel needed-- but within limits. For example, after about 2 weeks of being there endlessly most people would probably begin to get weary just by human nature & no fault, and you mentioned several months.

It's hard 'cause one might figure who else to go to but our friends but when there is an ongoing crises lasting many months it's probably best to make other arrangements to talk continual about it like a counselor or support group on or offline of people going through the same thing.You could always talk & vent all you want to those people for as long as you want.

It would even be helpful to not to talk about the problem each & every time you talk to these friends. To sometimes say "I don't want to talk about me/or the issue today for a change--I just want to hear about you or talk like we did before all of this".  

When a friend knows that every single time you/person is calling that it will be about that other person and that person will be upset, it can be a bit overwhelming.

And how draining a conversation is to another person also depends on the content of it. If there are a lot of repetitive comments & statements by the person going through the hard time, if there is a lot of repetition in the supporting friend's advice that keeps getting over-looked, if a lot of unanswerable questions are asked, leaving the support person not knowing what to say, if the conversation is all one-sided. Stuff like that. But sometimes it is just that the other person's grief is just too big and long lasting for another non professional person to handle ongoing.

Especially since you don't mind by comparison, it might be a good decision to bypass xmas eve with your friend.  A lot of tension between the two of you right now, and especially if you are feeling raw & vulnerable on top. A bit of distance might be best just now.

Maybe later you could thank her/them for their help and say something along the lines of that you didn't mean to place too much pressure on them, and that you would like to begin to talk about other things with them in the future. That you are seeking other avenues for ongoing support in working through the end of the relationship, but that they are free to ask how you are at any time.

Soon enough, they will be asking you how you are. Every once in awhile they will ask because they care & because it isn't being forced on them & they won't be feeling overwhelmed.  You can still discuss things with them & let them support you, but they can set the tone regarding how much they are able to.  

Take good care & try to plan to do something that you like xmas eve while at home. Whether it is having your favorite meal & dessert, a hot bath with candles, renting your favorite movie---   Be kind to yourself & allow yourself to enjoy the holidays.

[Anonymous]

~Soon enough, they will be asking you how you are.~

Friends like this are a haven from all the craziness.

[bludie]

Thanks for the help, fellow posters. It's really comforting and illuminating. Although I've tried inquiring about their lives -- pets, spouses, jobs and recreational activities -- I'm not the same as pre-crisis days -- lighter and happier. Both friends are strong women with independent interests, professional careers and busy lives. I hope it is as you say -- they'll be back when I'm more myself again. I've tried to not be completely self-absorbed in our dealings but I'm obviously not myself. And, as I've discovered through learning about NPD, the end to this relationship was unlike any other; took more out of me than I thought possible. Inside of 2 years, my friends witnessed an unhealthy metamorphosis. I went from being "Towanda" to a woebegone waif. The NPD discovery was compounded in realizing my Dad was also an N-alcoholic. So I've been quite immersed and, thus, an emotional albatross.

Especially since you don't mind by comparison, it might be a good decision to bypass xmas eve with your friend. A lot of tension between the two of you right now, and especially if you are feeling raw & vulnerable on top. A bit of distance might be best just now.

You're right and that's what I did. Although she may be upset right now, it's probably best in the long run. I declined the invitation and suggested we talk after the holidays.

Again, thanks for the help. I now realize the burden I inflicted on these friendships and will contemplate this as the New Year approaches.

Best,
bludie